The icy relationship between Sinner and Djokovic

JMR said:
A typically ludicrous assertion from you, considering that this entire thread from you is based on nothing but fanciful speculation -- "Ooh, that looks icy to me!" -- escalated into the realm of absurdity by conspiracy theorizing about Djokovic's imagined role in Sinner's drug test difficulties.


"Presumably." Yes, nothing but ironclad facts here.


No, they didn't totally ignore each other! Your own video shows that after Djokovic walked through the door, Sinner acknowledged him and tapped him on the shoulder. It also looks as though they may have shaken hands briefly, but it's hard to tell because the view of Sinner's right hand is blocked by Djokovic's body.

Mulling over 11-second videos for clues about players' relationships is the absolute nadir of online tennis discussion. I'm sorry for engaging in it if only for the sake of disputing the wild conclusions advanced here.
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I was referring to the part of your comment where you said that when you repeatedly meet in the corridors...

It's not this situation since, as already said, Sinner had been training for a few hours while Djokovic had just arrived.
So that clarification of yours makes no sense.

That said, I never said that in that video the frostiness between the two is unmistakable, I simply tried to interpret that moment in light of recent events (Djokovic's statements on the case of positivity and relationship with Kyrgios).

I have always said that those images can be misunderstood.
And when I spoke of ignoring each other I was referring to not stopping to exchange a few words of circumstance such as "how are you?" "everything okay?" etc.
 
Pros see each other all year. What do you want them to do most of the time except shaking hands ? Especially in days when everyone is busy having to practice, do PR stuff etc. They are not going to hug and have a coffee together as they please. Daria Kasatkina's vlogs give a good idea of what pros do when they are on sites of tournaments, even though she talks and interviews the friends she has on tour, she and the players featuring are almost always occupied. Djokovic and his team, Sinner and his team, and all the other players and their team are currently all focused on their own little personal bubble to prepare for the first slam of the year.
 
inflation_era said:
Sinner feels like an equal now (in ability), something Djokovic never felt towards Fedal as he was constantly trying to emulate them and become more popular.
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And Djokovic never really did equal them either. Last throw of the dice for prime Federer he handily beats peak Djokovic in 4 at both rg/w. Last glimpse of prime Nadal he handles him in 4 at 14 rg and then secures another 2-0 in his old age when healthy (2020, 2022).

He just kinda outlasted them until they were gone then he cleaned up.
 
Rosstour said:
It's only gross from the outside.

One weird thing I found out after my marriage ended is that women care about age much less than I thought. I'm almost 44 and the oldest woman I've dated or been physical with since hitting the market is 27

If you look good and are fun to be around, they do not care and some are even looking for that (and it's not just about money, I'm broke)
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Are you saying you were physical with women between 18-26?
 
Poisoned Slice said:
I closed the door and left Novak blinded by the liggggggght.
jannik.jpg
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Revved up like a deuce, another runner in the night!
 
Rosstour said:
The "rule" is half your age, +7

So technically 25 but yeah for sure. Honestly once there's a "2" there on their age it's fine, IMO
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Yeah I know that age old rule haha
Funny enough, my neighbor or I guess her parents live next door to me. Anyway, she’s 26 but her boyfriend is like 43. The parents are not fans of the age difference :X3:
 
Rosstour said:
What's even weirder is the guy effusively hugging Djokovic is Ulises Badio, his old physio who now works for Sinner.

And yeah that was cold AF. Only strengthened my theory that they don't like each other and Djoko is probably behind Sinner's current troubles.

Sinner is an ice queen, I don't think he really likes anyone, similar to Nadal...he would rather just kill everyone in the room than answer their stupid questions
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The man that Djoko is hugging is not Ulises Badio. Ulises it´s the guy who appears behind Sinner.
 
Rosstour said:
It's only gross from the outside.

One weird thing I found out after my marriage ended is that women care about age much less than I thought. I'm almost 44 and the oldest woman I've dated or been physical with since hitting the market is 27

If you look good and are fun to be around, they do not care and some are even looking for that (and it's not just about money, I'm broke)
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Its cyclical. In the 90s women didnt want to date men alot older, this was the hedonistic days of the raves and when being loaded was actually seen as a bit uncool almost.
Things changed after the global crash of 2008 when both hot looks AND wealth were a big turn on and and now it seems most women prefer much older men as they are sick of men under 30 as they are mainly so soft. Men over 40 are definitely more alpha and you cannot change hormones and base instinct, and women have and always will be attracted to alpha men who have power.
 
messiahrobins said:
Its cyclical. In the 90s women didnt want to date men alot older, this was the hedonistic days of the raves and when being loaded was actually seen as a bit uncool almost.
Things changed after the global crash of 2008 when both hot looks AND wealth were a big turn on and and now it seems most women prefer much older men as they are sick of men under 30 as they are mainly so soft. Men over 40 are definitely more alpha and you cannot change hormones and base instinct, and women have and always will be attracted to alpha men who have power.
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Hey, for every 1 girl in her 20s who wanted me, there were 20 that didn't. Lots of strikeouts. I think most women are looking for that good guy in their age range who they can grow with

Sometimes they like older bc they have a Daddy fetish (rare), or they want money (common), or they just don't care/can't tell (my case)
 
Rosstour said:
Yeah dude that was QUICK

Like he didn't even bother to say "hey bro I'm in a rush I'll catch you later"

Maybe they don't hate each other but there was no warmth there

@travelerajm @messiahrobins still like my theory about Djoko ratting Sinner out? I like it even more now
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Actually this incident to me didnt highlight anything, they seemed to acknowledge each other and obviously had things to do.
For me though the comment Djokovic made about 'Skiing' when asked about one word to describe his rivals was very very telling. There is obviously something going on, and i just have a feeling it isnt Sinner who is going to be the fall guy out of the two. Im beginning to wonder if team Sinner originally may have done something, which has triggered the ratting out you refer to by Novak. I just find the sudden aggressive marketing campaign to push Djokovic as GOAT and his remarks about being poisoned while in custody very strange timing. I am speculating now but my gut feeling is something may have happened after Djokovic-Sinner Wimbledon SF a few years ago.
 
Rosstour said:
Hey, for every 1 girl in her 20s who wanted me, there were 20 that didn't. Lots of strikeouts. I think most women are looking for that good guy in their age range who they can grow with

Sometimes they like older bc they have a Daddy fetish (rare), or they want money (common), or they just don't care/can't tell (my case)
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Agree, but if you see the young guys at my gym, you can understand why girls there age wont date them. These lads have gorgeous bodies and are good looking but spend more time in the mirror than women do and are just so soft and unable to hold a conversation.
 
messiahrobins said:
Agree, but if you see the young guys at my gym, you can understand why girls there age wont date them. These lads have gorgeous bodies and are good looking but spend more time in the mirror than women do and are just so soft and unable to hold a conversation.
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Some girls like that. Remember the 90s when dudes waxed their bodies? That's happening again bc we've been doing 90s redux.

I try not to get into this "everything sucks now/was better when I was young" bc there's no faster way to make yourself seem old and out of touch.

I look in the mirror a lot too, don't tell anyone haha
 
Rosstour said:
Some girls like that. Remember the 90s when dudes waxed their bodies? That's happening again bc we've been doing 90s redux.

I try not to get into this "everything sucks now/was better when I was young" bc there's no faster way to make yourself seem old and out of touch.

I look in the mirror a lot too, don't tell anyone haha
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I get what you are saying, but honestly, can you sit there and tell me life is better now than in the 80's? There is literally nothing better now other than more things to do at home given technology advances. For many no doubt thats great, but me, i am an outgoing people's person who likes face to face interactions and being out there.
In the UK 70% of nightclubs have closed...almost 50% of pubs have. Young people do not have social skills now. There no good singers now, no good young actors now. Cars are all boring. While some claim, in the UK at least, that the destruction of the hospitality industry is due to the Islamification of the UK, personally i disagree with that and think it was the inevitable consequence of technology advancing to the extent that people can now live their lives without ever leaving home. Literally!
 
messiahrobins said:
I get what you are saying, but honestly, can you sit there and tell me life is better now than in the 80's? There is literally nothing better now other than more things to do at home given technology advances. For many no doubt thats great, but me, i am an outgoing people's person who likes face to face interactions and being out there.
In the UK 70% of nightclubs have closed...almost 50% of pubs have. Young people do not have social skills now. There no good singers now, no good young actors now. Cars are all boring. While some claim, in the UK at least, that the destruction of the hospitality industry is due to the Islamification of the UK, personally i disagree with that and think it was the inevitable consequence of technology advancing to the extent that people can now live their lives without ever leaving home. Literally!
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I do think there is a correlation between the rising number of Muslims and the decline in alcohol consumption in Western societies.

Other factors as well. But I do think it's one of them.

I think the 90s were better than the 80s as well. I liked the 90s Presidents, both of them. Reagan overrated. Music got better in 90s, cars got better. Late 2000s were when cars and bikes started getting totally wicked. But I still wouldn't want to go back
 
Rosstour said:
I do think there is a correlation between the rising number of Muslims and the decline in alcohol consumption in Western societies.

Other factors as well. But I do think it's one of them.

I think the 90s were better than the 80s as well. I liked the 90s Presidents, both of them. Reagan overrated. Music got better in 90s, cars got better. Late 2000s were when cars and bikes started getting totally wicked. But I still wouldn't want to go back
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Maybe there’s a specific year I’d go back to, but I wouldn’t say one whole decade is better than now.
 
messiahrobins said:
Djokovic is 37..Sinner 22.
At the moment Alcaraz is on course to obliterate 24 slams unless Sinner can stop him, so i cannot fathom why Djokovic fans do not root for Sinner.
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Why would a tennis fan with integrity support a player who tested positive for doping twice???

Tennis is not all about winning. Integrity matters too.
 
What happened and what Djokovic said about Sinner
In the much-discussed interview with GQ, Djokovic was asked to say the first word that came to mind when faced with some names. "Elegance" for Roger Federer, "Tenacity" for Rafa Nadal, "Charisma" for Alcaraz and for Jannik Sinner? "Skiing". A somewhat surprising answer, as it is not associated with any particular tennis talent.

If the Italian player directly involved preferred to dodge the questions on the subject ("Ask him (Djokovic, ed.), the Serbian tennis player thought about returning to the subject. Nole seemed quite surprised by the turn things had taken: "I saw on social media that everything was turned into a drama, or a story, as if I had humiliated him or intentionally shown him disrespect. It's ridiculous".

But why did Djokovic answer "skiing"? This is his explanation: "It was one of those quiz-type interviews, where you have to think of something in a second. Sinner's name came up and I had this image in my head of him skiing, because I saw that he was skiing somewhere. Also, we two always talk about skiing, about how we will ski together etc".

No case then and above all no disrespect towards Sinner by Djokovic who also got annoyed and nervous: "That's why I said 'ski', not because I don't respect his successes in tennis, on the contrary. It's clear as day that the way he is dominating is worthy of all praise, both his style of play and the level of play. He has all the attributes I mentioned in others (Federer, Nadal, Alcaraz, ed.), and now people make it seem like they're disrespecting him. Rubbish".
 
Winner Sinner said:
What happened and what Djokovic said about Sinner
In the much-discussed interview with GQ, Djokovic was asked to say the first word that came to mind when faced with some names. "Elegance" for Roger Federer, "Tenacity" for Rafa Nadal, "Charisma" for Alcaraz and for Jannik Sinner? "Skiing". A somewhat surprising answer, as it is not associated with any particular tennis talent.

If the Italian player directly involved preferred to dodge the questions on the subject ("Ask him (Djokovic, ed.), the Serbian tennis player thought about returning to the subject. Nole seemed quite surprised by the turn things had taken: "I saw on social media that everything was turned into a drama, or a story, as if I had humiliated him or intentionally shown him disrespect. It's ridiculous".

But why did Djokovic answer "skiing"? This is his explanation: "It was one of those quiz-type interviews, where you have to think of something in a second. Sinner's name came up and I had this image in my head of him skiing, because I saw that he was skiing somewhere. Also, we two always talk about skiing, about how we will ski together etc".

No case then and above all no disrespect towards Sinner by Djokovic who also got annoyed and nervous: "That's why I said 'ski', not because I don't respect his successes in tennis, on the contrary. It's clear as day that the way he is dominating is worthy of all praise, both his style of play and the level of play. He has all the attributes I mentioned in others (Federer, Nadal, Alcaraz, ed.), and now people make it seem like they're disrespecting him. Rubbish".
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Not by skiing, but he definitely disrespected sinner by aligning with kyrgios and supporting Nick s comments
 
Looking at the bigger picture here, I think Sinner is not the type of guy who like to hang out and party. He looks introverted and not easy to have a fun conversation or joke with. He would turn a fun exhibition tennis session into an awkward and soul-less boring event.
 
Nothing happened. Although Sinner is going to give another beatdown on Djoker next time they meet at a hc slam, so make of that what you will. :)
 
I'm enjoying reading @Rosstour's musings on the march of time. Inextricably related to this subject and the real fruit of this discussion.

I feel like Sinner and Djokovic are fine w/ each other. Sinner is aloof and chilly, as has been said, perhaps because of the way his inner monologue works. You can tell it's how he gets comfortable.

Novak has been forced into a mode of bonhomie by the millennial milieu (Cringe if you dislike him, but this is the part that's Balkan coded. He has a chip on his shoulder that makes sense, and has learned via cash injection to not resent the Western public). There was an expectation for him to emulate, somehow, as an asexual unit, Fedal's reflexive love affair. (This is a psychic extreme. I'm not suggesting Nole is somehow asexual, only that he's been forced by a light version of exclusion into a relationship of 1. Reason why bringing in Murray is such a relief, maybe.)

Sinner, and to a lesser extent Alcaraz are unburdened by the same expectations. Alcaraz has chosen to create a similar asexual unit of affection, but has the benefit of total personal anonymity somehow. We know nothing of him and project everything. (This is a royal we, by which I mean the English-speaking media voice.)
 
This thing about Sinner being a cold and detached person is an urban legend of those who know little about the character, or rather, judgment influenced by his attitude on the court.

Off the court in reality Sinner is a humble person with healthy values but at the same time sunny who likes to joke in the company of friends.
Don't be fooled by his public persona which appears to be a diplomatic version, a very constructed image.

It is also false to say that someone like him cannot bond with colleagues.
He has a great friendship with Hurkacz that has lasted since his first years on the circuit, in the last period he has also bonded a lot with Draper.
Another colleague with whom he has bonded a lot is Berrettini, on whom he was close to him in the most complicated period of the Roman tennis player's career, ergo, the participation in the last Davis Cup was motivated above all by the desire to be able to win it together with Berrettini.
Another player with whom he is linked by a beautiful friendship is Sonego.

Then there would be the Alcaraz issue, here as the interested parties have specified, being the rivals par excellence of current tennis that looks to the future, it is impossible to succeed in cultivating a friendship, however between the two there is a feeling on a human level seasoned with enormous mutual respect and esteem, this since the dawn thinking of the first match at ATP level between the two (Paris Bercy 2021) where during the handshake at the end of the match Sinner told Alcaraz that it had been nice to play against him hoping for many other future challenges, which goes hand in hand with what Alcaraz told him again during the handshake after the lost semi-final of Miami 2023 "in the final I will cheer for you".

With Djokovic for me something has cracked due to the case of positivity with consequent side effects.
And here I agree with those who say that Djokovic sees Sinner as a threat to his legacy as GOAT perhaps even greater than Alcaraz.

PS
In yesterday's comment with attached video on the live of the YouTube channel of the Australian Open, I was referring to Djokovic and Alcaraz filmed while laughing together.
 
Hawks9451 said:
I'm enjoying reading @Rosstour's musings on the march of time. Inextricably related to this subject and the real fruit of this discussion.

I feel like Sinner and Djokovic are fine w/ each other. Sinner is aloof and chilly, as has been said, perhaps because of the way his inner monologue works. You can tell it's how he gets comfortable.
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Uh...if they were fine with each other, then Kyrgios wouldn't be attacking Sinner. Djokovic would've told him privately to knock it off and if that didn't work would do so publicly. And really, Nick wouldn't even be doing it in the first place.

It's amusing to watch people invent ways to say "everything is fine" whether it's the Djoko/Sinner dynamic or Sinner's positive test. I can see this whole situation is very difficult for some of you to accept
 
Why did mods delete the first comment which was the most obvious.

They should NOT have deleted it and overstepped. I do not mind getting a ban for saying this.
 
Rosstour said:
Uh...if they were fine with each other, then Kyrgios wouldn't be attacking Sinner. Djokovic would've told him privately to knock it off and if that didn't work would do so publicly. And really, Nick wouldn't even be doing it in the first place.

It's amusing to watch people invent ways to say "everything is fine" whether it's the Djoko/Sinner dynamic or Sinner's positive test. I can see this whole situation is very difficult for some of you to accept
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The Kyrgios thing is a good point, but I don't know if we can start thinking of Djokovic as liable for Kyrgios' speech.

Then again, they're basically on the same page with this issue, so I could see what you're saying.
 
Hawks9451 said:
The Kyrgios thing is a good point, but I don't know if we can start thinking of Djokovic as liable for Kyrgios' speech.

Then again, they're basically on the same page with this issue, so I could see what you're saying.
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It's not that Djokovic is liable, as much as: he has the gravitas to shut Nick up, where most people don't. Nick will listen to his big bro.

So if Nick is still running his mouth about Sinner and Djokovic isn't stopping him privately or criticizing him publicly, we can assume that he is OK with it.
 
Rosstour said:
It's not that Djokovic is liable, as much as: he has the gravitas to shut Nick up, where most people don't. Nick will listen to his big bro.

So if Nick is still running his mouth about Sinner and Djokovic isn't stopping him privately or criticizing him publicly, we can assume that he is OK with it.
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Yeah, I just mean that if we can get there easily by way of inference, he's practically liable.
 
Hawks9451 said:
Yeah, I just mean that if we can get there easily by way of inference, he's practically liable.
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Sure, but I'm not looking to morally blame anyone, I just try to observe the dynamics and strategies at play. It's my opinion that Djokovic has targeted Sinner for whatever reason, and the Kyrgios stuff supports my view IMO

I'm not a huge fan of any of the players in this situation so no dog in this fight
 
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