The inescapable breakdown of Nadal's body

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MugOpponent

Hall of Fame
I think Nadal should cut down his season. Something like

Doha
AO

(possibly IW)

MC
Barca
Rome
RG

Queens
Wimbledon

Canadian Masters
US Open

China Open
possibly Shanghai
WTF (again i'd actually say skip this but if he qualifies and seeing as he's not won it, if he's arrives in good condition it was be mad not to play it)

That means skipping Miami, Madrid, Cinci and Paris masters. Possibly skipping Shanghai as well, though it's a masters, there will likely be more competition there than at the china open so he could probably win china without as much effort, gives him some match practice and points.

Nadal could skip IW and play Miami seeing as he's never won it, but he seems cursed there. Maybe just skip them both

I think his scheduling possibilities are quite intriguing because there are so many permutations that are valid. I speculated that skipping IW/Miami might leave a lot more in the tank for Wimbledon. Sure enough, that seemed correct as he was essentially one point away from winning. I wonder if Rafa or his team might make that connection.

Selfishly I'd hate to see him skip IW as I'd like to attend. It'd also be a real shame if Nadal didn't win Miami. I'd say he probably could have won it last year if he had played but it was prudent to just recover for clay. Winning Miami is likely to be more difficult going forward with Djokovic back in form as it's one of Novak's best events. Although it's possible the court will play differently with a new venue.

He should skip Madrid because the timing of tournament is perfect for a break in the clay season to rest up for Rome and RG. It's by far the least favorable conditions for Rafa. However in the real world he isn't skipping a tournament in Spain or making an inadvertent political statement by playing Barcelona and not Madrid.

If I had to set up his schedule it'd go
Brisbane
Australian Open
Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Barcelona
Rome
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
Canada
USO
Shanghai

I'd encourage one more tournament of his choice as 12 seems too light.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Look, he's definitely milking some injuries to not have to deal with ATP on tournaments he doesn't care to win. The chance for #1 last year cemented this for anyone paying attention. He did just enough to guarantee #1 and he was done.

Guy can do whatever he wants and I don't agree with ATP rules although I understand them.

He'll be good to go for the French this year we know.
Nadal will be 33 when the FO rolls around...... you really never know.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
If I had to set up his schedule it'd go
Brisbane
Australian Open
Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Barcelona
Rome
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
Canada
USO
Shanghai

I'd encourage one more tournament of his choice as 12 seems too light.
No more attempts to win the WTF?
 

BGod

Legend
Problem is there are a lot of options for hundred million dollar athletes who garner billion dollar impact.

Be they stem cell or otherwise.

Nadal coming back in 2010 then 2013 then 2017. Why different now?
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Problem is there are a lot of options for hundred million dollar athletes who garner billion dollar impact.

Be they stem cell or otherwise.

Nadal coming back in 2010 then 2013 then 2017. Why different now?
Will stem cell cure salty crying pressers???
 

Shank Volley

Hall of Fame
For me the issue isn't so much that Nadal's body has broken down, it's that his physical advantage versus the field is essentially gone. It's getting to the stage where when Nadal takes the court with someone, the player who hits better shots will win, and Nadal has made a career of beating more traditional shotmakers by making them uncomfortable and wearing them down until they miss.

As someone who's had up and down fitness over the years I can attest to the fact that when you're the less fit player on the court the only way to win is to play with more precision, power, and guile than the opponent.

A player's ability to run is less effected by nerves than their ability to crush a forehand on the rise for a clean winner, hence Nadal's high break point save and conversion rates. This is the stage of his career when we'll really see how mentally strong he is.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
dont hear too much about the knees or the congenital foot injuries these days do we?

quite remarkable :)
Well, they have done the job they were used for, haven't they?

There was a time when those were used as an explanation for why Nadal might eventually wind down or even stop playing. It is a kind of ridiculous to continue with that argument when he is running faster and more than 90% of the tour at 32.

:cool:
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
For me the issue isn't so much that Nadal's body has broken down, it's that his physical advantage versus the field is essentially gone. It's getting to the stage where when Nadal takes the court with someone, the player who hits better shots will win, and Nadal has made a career of beating more traditional shotmakers by making them uncomfortable and wearing them down until they miss.

As someone who's had up and down fitness over the years I can attest to the fact that when you're the less fit player on the court the only way to win is to play with more precision, power, and guile than the opponent.

A player's ability to run is less effected by nerves than their ability to crush a forehand on the rise for a clean winner, hence Nadal's high break point save and conversion rates. This is the stage of his career when we'll really see how mentally strong he is.
This is exactly it. It's taken a LONG time, but the guys on tour are finally as fit as he is (or close). He, along with Djokovic have made the tour a lot more physical, and the guys are used to it now. Peak Rafa could play all day knowing eventually his opponent would tire, but now he can't play a whole tournament that way, because everyone is used to playing the physical style he brings to the table.
 

Shank Volley

Hall of Fame
This is exactly it. It's taken a LONG time, but the guys on tour are finally as fit as he is (or close). He, along with Djokovic have made the tour a lot more physical, and the guys are used to it now. Peak Rafa could play all day knowing eventually his opponent would tire, but now he can't play a whole tournament that way, because everyone is used to playing the physical style he brings to the table.
Nadal, Federer and Djokovic definitely changed the way people approach the game in terms of training and diet, but I think more than that it's the degradation of Nadal's speed. General physicality has been boosted but Nadal has had a significant downturn to meet it somewhere in the middle.
 

JasonG2019

Rookie
I can't help but feel really sorry for the guy, in the past 12 months...

Retires from Paris with knee injury
Retires from WTF with knee injury
Skips Brisbane due to knee injury
Retires from AO with hip injury
Skips Acapulco due to hip injury
Skips IW due to hip injury
Skips Miami due to hip injury
Retires from USO due to knee injury
Skips Beijing due to knee injury
Skips Shanghai due to knee injury
Withdraws from Paris due to abdominal injury
???????

That's four different injuries - yes, he injured his knees twice in the past 12 months, for four different occurrences of being injured. And it is not just the knee which is the worrying part. The wear and tear is showing more and more now, and I have to say it is quite concerning, because the frequency of injuries are now happening within months of each other. It would a massive loss to the game if the injuries eventually overwhelm him, especially since we know he is still capable of playing tennis of the absolute highest level on the tour which only a handful of players can match, and even on some days they cannot.

It is a successful year for him in that he won a slam, no year in which a slam can be a bad year, but when looking at what is happening to his body time and time again, I cannot but help ask the question now, how much is really left? I was never one to write off Nadal in the past, and even now I am not truly there on that, but I am seriously now looking at how much the injuries are keeping away from the courts and more at home against his own will.

It is an absolute shame he went out in the way he did today, I was rooting for a Nadal v Djokovic final here, so they can fight one on one for the number one ranking. Sadly, Nadal's body robbed him again of that chance to defend something important. Some people say it is amazing he made it this far, maybe there is some truth in that, Nadal has been playing with pain for a very long time, chronic knees issues don't really go away the older and more mileage you put on your legs.

I hope he gets well, and next year can play injury free, and play a full season. Good luck to him.
His playing style is horrendous he has no weapons it’s all grinding
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Nadal, Federer and Djokovic definitely changed the way people approach the game in terms of training and diet, but I think more than that it's the degradation of Nadal's speed. General physicality has been boosted but Nadal has had a significant downturn to meet it somewhere in the middle.
Yeah, Peakdal would destroy them :p
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
For me the issue isn't so much that Nadal's body has broken down, it's that his physical advantage versus the field is essentially gone. It's getting to the stage where when Nadal takes the court with someone, the player who hits better shots will win, and Nadal has made a career of beating more traditional shotmakers by making them uncomfortable and wearing them down until they miss.

As someone who's had up and down fitness over the years I can attest to the fact that when you're the less fit player on the court the only way to win is to play with more precision, power, and guile than the opponent.

A player's ability to run is less effected by nerves than their ability to crush a forehand on the rise for a clean winner, hence Nadal's high break point save and conversion rates. This is the stage of his career when we'll really see how mentally strong he is.
What an excellent post.

It's always annoyed me that people seem to make such simplistic judgements on "mental strength". I'm sure these players (like the rest of us) are a mixture of strength and weakness. Ironically all the guff about Nadal being this "mental titan" has probably meant he's had less respect for his actual tennis than he should have.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
It's amazing that this weaponless player is one of the three best players in the Open Era. If only he had an ATG forehand, or off-the-charts speed, quickness and anticipation, or a remarkable transition game, or some of the best touch on tour, or the ability to change tactics mid-match, or...
It's part of the stupidity of the simplistic "Fedal: Study in contrasts" narrative. It was good marketing but it's crap

Federer never gets enough credit for his mental toughness and Nadal never gets enough credit for his skill.
 

RaulRamirez

Hall of Fame
It's part of the stupidity of the simplistic "Fedal: Study in contrasts" narrative. It was good marketing but it's crap

Federer never gets enough credit for his mental toughness and Nadal never gets enough credit for his skill.
I agree completely, and have posted several times about both/all parts of this equation: lazy media and fans and how narratives die slowly, if ever; Fed's resilience and toughness; and the subtleties of Nadal's game.
 

King No1e

Legend
Problem is there are a lot of options for hundred million dollar athletes who garner billion dollar impact.

Be they stem cell or otherwise.

Nadal coming back in 2010 then 2013 then 2017. Why different now?
Everytime we mention those years, it always amazes me how all his #1 years (after 2008) were comeback seasons.
 

Pantera

Banned
Decent thread, then all the trolls appear talking about how hes always healthy for clay. :rolleyes:
A lot of really bitter people towards Nadal for some reason.
He may have missed a decent chunk of WTF's in his career, but lets not forget hes only ever missed 2 USO, 3 Wimbledons, and a couple of AO's. in almost 16 years on the tour.
So about 60 slams he has missed a massive 7 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Pure jealousy of Nadal, not so much from Djokovic fans, it is mainly Federer fans.
 

Sudacafan

G.O.A.T.
There’s always an inescapable moment in every thread when it’s heading nowhere.
Except for Sureshs thread, which is already there.
 

MeatTornado

Legend
Another day, another hard court retirement.

I think this is actually good for him. He's already had plenty of match-play this year to get into form, and this will force him to skip Miami and take a little time off so he's fully rested for the clay season.
 

Pantera

Banned
I can't help but feel really sorry for the guy, in the past 12 months...

Retires from Paris with knee injury
Retires from WTF with knee injury
Skips Brisbane due to knee injury
Retires from AO with hip injury
Skips Acapulco due to hip injury
Skips IW due to hip injury
Skips Miami due to hip injury
Retires from USO due to knee injury
Skips Beijing due to knee injury
Skips Shanghai due to knee injury
Withdraws from Paris due to abdominal injury
???????

That's four different injuries - yes, he injured his knees twice in the past 12 months, for four different occurrences of being injured. And it is not just the knee which is the worrying part. The wear and tear is showing more and more now, and I have to say it is quite concerning, because the frequency of injuries are now happening within months of each other. It would a massive loss to the game if the injuries eventually overwhelm him, especially since we know he is still capable of playing tennis of the absolute highest level on the tour which only a handful of players can match, and even on some days they cannot.

It is a successful year for him in that he won a slam, no year in which a slam can be a bad year, but when looking at what is happening to his body time and time again, I cannot but help ask the question now, how much is really left? I was never one to write off Nadal in the past, and even now I am not truly there on that, but I am seriously now looking at how much the injuries are keeping away from the courts and more at home against his own will.

It is an absolute shame he went out in the way he did today, I was rooting for a Nadal v Djokovic final here, so they can fight one on one for the number one ranking. Sadly, Nadal's body robbed him again of that chance to defend something important. Some people say it is amazing he made it this far, maybe there is some truth in that, Nadal has been playing with pain for a very long time, chronic knees issues don't really go away the older and more mileage you put on your legs.

I hope he gets well, and next year can play injury free, and play a full season. Good luck to him.
Hasnt played a full season since 2011. Will struggle to play 10 events this year. I think there is a reason he is almost pro level at golf....
 

Old Gregg

Rookie
Not to mention Karen should have been given a chance to face Fed if Rafa didn't want to.

We know that walkovers don't count as a loss but they really should...
 

Keystoner

Rookie
Disclaimer: Fed is my guy.

I think Nadal should take a page from Federer's book. Fed took 6 months off in '16 and has never shown signs of that injury recurring. Nadal has had this recurring knee thing for how long now? I'm not a doctor but I think he should take an extended period of time off so that the knee will fully heal. Then he should be selective about his yearly schedule. He might not be able to earn enough points to hold #1 but he may be able to extend his career in years and GS total to Fed territory. I don't want to see him exceed Fed but I don't want to constantly see him go lame in the middle of a match.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Disclaimer: Fed is my guy.

I think Nadal should take a page from Federer's book. Fed took 6 months off in '16 and has never shown signs of that injury recurring. Nadal has had this recurring knee thing for how long now? I'm not a doctor but I think he should take an extended period of time off so that the knee will fully heal. Then he should be selective about his yearly schedule. He might not be able to earn enough points to hold #1 but he may be able to extend his career in years and GS total to Fed territory. I don't want to see him exceed Fed but I don't want to constantly see him go lame in the middle of a match.
Um....different type of injury. Rafas 'knee thing' will never go away. Its wear and tear. He can manage it on certain surfaces, for a certain period of time, but its becoming less every year. It just depends from here in, how much Rafa fancies going through this same injury, then treatment, then rest, and then hoping to keep the pain at bay for the next tournament.
He will eventually have to give up most HC events very soon. Federer if I remember tore a meniscus, that can be fixed, with the person resuming normal acivities without pain.
 
Disclaimer: Fed is my guy.

I think Nadal should take a page from Federer's book. Fed took 6 months off in '16 and has never shown signs of that injury recurring. Nadal has had this recurring knee thing for how long now? I'm not a doctor but I think he should take an extended period of time off so that the knee will fully heal. Then he should be selective about his yearly schedule. He might not be able to earn enough points to hold #1 but he may be able to extend his career in years and GS total to Fed territory. I don't want to see him exceed Fed but I don't want to constantly see him go lame in the middle of a match.
Nadal also took a long period of time off in 2016 too. He just has a style which is more punishing on the body. If Nadal wants to really extend his career, he needs to alter how he plays.

He has the longest average set time of every player in the top 100 in 2018 and is significantly longer, on average, than Federer across their careers. All that extra running and grinding he does is impressive, but it shaves time off your career. Often no need for it as well - he has one of the very best forehands in the game.
 

Keystoner

Rookie
Um....different type of injury. Rafas 'knee thing' will never go away. Its wear and tear. He can manage it on certain surfaces, for a certain period of time, but its becoming less every year. It just depends from here in, how much Rafa fancies going through this same injury, then treatment, then rest, and then hoping to keep the pain at bay for the next tournament.
He will eventually have to give up most HC events very soon. Federer if I remember tore a meniscus, that can be fixed, with the person resuming normal acivities without pain.
What's his knee thing that will never go away? Is surgery an option?
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Question is Will RAFA have lighter schedule during this clay season to be 100 % for sure at Paris ? I think lighter schedule might be better for RAFA like Skipping the Italian open would be Optimal. and Avoid Novak til French open time.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
What's his knee thing that will never go away? Is surgery an option?
Tendonitis. wear and tear etc. It cant just be fixed with rest or surgery. He has tried resting it pretty much most of his career at certain points, but it just keep coming back more frequently as he ages.
I know this feeling all too well, as I used to do a particular physical job, that after 6-7 years of doing the same grind, my knee joints were starting to ache. But after I left the job my knees were fine. I know that if I went back there tomorrow, though, that in a few weeks time, id start getting pains.
 

jon70

Semi-Pro
We know that walkovers don't count as a loss but they really should...
In that situation how does the money work out? Is the pay for pulling out of the SF the same as winning the QF? Just wondering if they can make pulling out of a match without a ball being hit a disincentive.
 

Old Gregg

Rookie
In that situation how does the money work out? Is the pay for pulling out of the SF the same as winning the QF? Just wondering if they can make pulling out of a match without a ball being hit a disincentive.
As far as I know you get the prizemoney as if you'd played the match.

Can anybody else confirm?
 
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