The ITF will not release detailed drug testing information for 2010

JennyS

Hall of Fame
Just got this from the Tennis has a Steroid Problem blog:

"I wrote the ITF yesterday, through the feedback section on their website and asked when the detailed testing results for 2010 would be published. This is their reply...

"The ITF is publishing data in accordance with the minimum requirements of WADA Code Article 14.4.

14.4 Statistical Reporting
Anti-Doping Organizations shall, at least annually, publish publicly a general statistical report of their Doping Control activities with a copy provided to WADA.

We do not intend to publish any additional information.

Regards

Tennis Anti-Doping Department"

They have the detailed information for all the previous years, yet they will not do so for 2010. Now we will not know which players received out of competition drug tests in 2010. This seems extra suspicious, given that 2010 was the year of Serena Williams' mysterious foot injury. If Serena did not have an OOC test in 2010, that would be almost proof that she missed 3 OOC tests and was suspended a year (she missed one in 2009).

Tennis' drug testing program is a complete joke. Yet tennis is portrayed as a drug free sport with rigorous drug testing by the media. What a sham.
 

aphex

Banned
Rafael+Nadal+two+arm+bicep+flex+celebration+in+Key+Biscayne+2010.JPG
 

ivan_the_terrible

Hall of Fame
I predict a thread failure on this since most fans on here are not very much interested in discussing this. I was rebuked more than once by fans of certain players to focus on 'tennis', excluding this topic. Apparently, drug testing of tennis players in not related to 'tennis'.

I get the impression that I should instead marvel at the way some players exhibit superhuman effort on the court, suffer serious injuries yet amazingly recover to trample their opponents. Perish the thought that I should wonder how and why this is possible.

The world's most famous cycling event just completed and pundits are cautiously optimistic that increased vigilance in drug testing appears to have had an effect. There were no amazing feats of astounding mountain climbing 'ability' this time around,

I wonder why? I wonder why the defending champ and the usual suspects showed none of their mastery this year? Lack of confidence? Mentally weakened from the false positive test results? lack of protein in the diet?
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
I predict a thread failure on this since most fans on here are not very much interested in discussing this. I was rebuked more than once by fans of certain players to focus on 'tennis', excluding this topic. Apparently, drug testing of tennis players in not related to 'tennis'.

I get the impression that I should instead marvel at the way some players exhibit superhuman effort on the court, suffer serious injuries yet amazingly recover to trample their opponents. Perish the thought that I should wonder how and why this is possible.

The world's most famous cycling event just completed and pundits are cautiously optimistic that increased vigilance in drug testing appears to have had an effect. There were no amazing feats of astounding mountain climbing 'ability' this time around,

I wonder why? I wonder why the defending champ and the usual suspects showed none of their mastery this year? Lack of confidence? Mentally weakened from the false positive test results? lack of protein in the diet?

too much gluten and no infected meat??

And yes I saw that article as well. Very encouraging for a sport rife with drug cheating.
 
A lot of you have a huge misconception about PEDs. Vast majority of the time, athletes take them for faster healing, along with the other advantages.

It's like you guys think Nadal could just sit back, inject himself, and eat Cheetos on his couch. You still have to work very hard. Nadal's one of the hardest workers around. He's earned everything he's had.

I'm not sticking up for anyone that takes them. I'm saying that most of these guys on the tour, along with other sports, are taking them. They are probably not bringing out the report because it would implicate the majority of the tour.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
A lot of you have a huge misconception about PEDs. Vast majority of the time, athletes take them for faster healing, along with the other advantages.

It's like you guys think Nadal could just sit back, inject himself, and eat Cheetos on his couch. You still have to work very hard. Nadal's one of the hardest workers around. He's earned everything he's had.

I'm not sticking up for anyone that takes them. I'm saying that most of these guys on the tour, along with other sports, are taking them. They are probably not bringing out the report because it would implicate the majority of the tour.


whoever said anybody taking PEDs didnt practice or train???

But PEDs including, designer steroids, hgh etc let u train harder for longer and recover quicker, improve stamina, hand eye coordination, let you develop muscles even whilst engaging in high cardio exercise( which usually inhibits muscle growth). etc etc
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
A lot of you have a huge misconception about PEDs. Vast majority of the time, athletes take them for faster healing, along with the other advantages.

It's like you guys think Nadal could just sit back, inject himself, and eat Cheetos on his couch. You still have to work very hard. Nadal's one of the hardest workers around. He's earned everything he's had.

I'm not sticking up for anyone that takes them. I'm saying that most of these guys on the tour, along with other sports, are taking them. They are probably not bringing out the report because it would implicate the majority of the tour.
enough with these cheetos allegations... we want NAMES !!! :)
 

Kunohara

Professional
The world's most famous cycling event just completed and pundits are cautiously optimistic that increased vigilance in drug testing appears to have had an effect. There were no amazing feats of astounding mountain climbing 'ability' this time around,

Depends.

Andy Schleck had a great performance climbing the Galibier to cut apart Voeckler's lead and basically take command of the tour. However, he seemed to have precious little left in the legs for the following day's climb of Alpe d'Huez, where he thoroughly needed to gain time on Evans before the Grenoble time trial. Which he was unable to do. He finished that stage alongside Evans, despite being the vastly superior climber.

That was about what I would expect of somebody giving extra extra efforts one day. And it was entirely different from what Contador or heck even Schleck himself were able to do the past 2 years.
 
A lot of you have a huge misconception about PEDs. Vast majority of the time, athletes take them for faster healing, along with the other advantages.

It's like you guys think Nadal could just sit back, inject himself, and eat Cheetos on his couch. You still have to work very hard. Nadal's one of the hardest workers around. He's earned everything he's had.

I'm not sticking up for anyone that takes them. I'm saying that most of these guys on the tour, along with other sports, are taking them. They are probably not bringing out the report because it would implicate the majority of the tour.

But if I read the OP right, they say that all previous years have been publicly reported, so what are you saying? Doping is a 2010 phenomenon?

I can see why ITF would want to protect their players but even though they don't have to report publicly, they still have to send a report to WADA, and why would they care about outing players? It's done all the time in cycling, athletics etc.
 

JennyS

Hall of Fame
Last year, when the ITF released the detailed drug testing for 2009, they included info on missed out of competition drug tests. The Williams sisters and Nadal missed an OOC test before Wimbledon while Federer missed one right before Basel. Several other players (including Simon TWICE) missed an OOC test.

The ITF deleted the missed tests info, but it was archived here (the one with three zeroes are the missed tests)

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/26478361/drug-test-doc

Now all they have is the general statistics.
 
But if I read the OP right, they say that all previous years have been publicly reported, so what are you saying? Doping is a 2010 phenomenon?

I can see why ITF would want to protect their players but even though they don't have to report publicly, they still have to send a report to WADA, and why would they care about outing players? It's done all the time in cycling, athletics etc.

No, I personally think the list is too big. They'd probably have to suspend all of them. Our tour would be a bunch of futures and challengers, haha.
 

Tony48

Legend
I'm not really familiar with any of this but it certainly is interesting that last year's report won't be released even though previous years have been made public.
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
whoever said anybody taking PEDs didnt practice or train???

But PEDs including, designer steroids, hgh etc let u train harder for longer and recover quicker, improve stamina, hand eye coordination, let you develop muscles even whilst engaging in high cardio exercise( which usually inhibits muscle growth). etc etc
PEDs improve hand-eye coordination? That's news to me. But again, I'm a layman.

Is that correct?
 

mattennis

Hall of Fame
Probably we will never know (at least not in the near future).

In my honest opinion, all of them use PED, and probably they all use the very same things.
 

mattennis

Hall of Fame
BTW, even if I said I believe all of them use PEDs, trying to back that with pictures of players (supposedly being too much bulky) is kind of stupid.

I've seen Nadal very close to me and he is very thin, and Federer is the same (wider shoulder but skinny arms). All of them are very thin.

Almost every people in every gim are bulkier than any tennis player.

Tennis player are fit, and probably they use PEDs to have more endurence and to recover earlier. But to think they are too much muscular so that they HAVE to be taking drugs is stupid.

They are taking PEDs, even though all of them are very lean.
 
No, I personally think the list is too big. They'd probably have to suspend all of them. Our tour would be a bunch of futures and challengers, haha.

Yeah, but would all previous years' lists not be just as long? So why not publish this one, unless you are suggesting they fiddle with their reports, in which case why not fiddle with this one too and just publish it?
 
Players are always complaining about early morning drugs tests, especially Murray, who's tweeted about it several times and just this morning Mardy Fish:

Cruel wake up call at 645am from doping control. I will test positive for coffee and coffee

So they are being tested and quite often too it seems, going by Murray's tweets, so what are we saying? That the ITF is going to the bother of testing but just ignores any and all drugs that show up to "protect" the sport? And furthermore, the players aren't a bit worried because they're 100% sure ITF/WADA will cover for them? If it was this easy why wouldn't all sports just cover up?

Anyway drugs aren't all that dealbreaking in tennis. In sports like swimming, cycling,running, the objectives are basically always the same, it is literally just your body needed for the same monotonous work, so get whatever drug best aids you. But in tennis, there's so much mental i.e break pts etc. and technical/tactical, strengths/weaknesses with serve/forehand/backhand. There's a lot of guys who can go the distance physically, 5 sets out there but mightn't be able to even get in the top 10/20 because they don't know how to win a match against a big player, what shots to hit, tactics to use, and then if you get the game plan right, there's implementation too which plenty can't carry out or sometimes choke etc. I think if you're running in a flat out sprint, or marathon etc. you're not really likely to choke, you've either got enough speed/stamina to win the race or you don't. And drugs can aid this process enormously obviously.
 

mattennis

Hall of Fame
IMO they use it mainly for aid recovery between consecutive matches, consecutive tournaments,...

Every (clean) trained person can play for 4 or 5 hours one day. The difficult thing is to do it day in day out, week in week out.

I would not be shocked if one day we know ITF have covered several top players along the years.

To put it another way: I would be shocked if they find Federer (or Nadal or Djokovic) guilty and they release it.
 

NamRanger

G.O.A.T.
Players are always complaining about early morning drugs tests, especially Murray, who's tweeted about it several times and just this morning Mardy Fish:



So they are being tested and quite often too it seems, going by Murray's tweets, so what are we saying? That the ITF is going to the bother of testing but just ignores any and all drugs that show up to "protect" the sport? And furthermore, the players aren't a bit worried because they're 100% sure ITF/WADA will cover for them? If it was this easy why wouldn't all sports just cover up?

Anyway drugs aren't all that dealbreaking in tennis. In sports like swimming, cycling,running, the objectives are basically always the same, it is literally just your body needed for the same monotonous work, so get whatever drug best aids you. But in tennis, there's so much mental i.e break pts etc. and technical/tactical, strengths/weaknesses with serve/forehand/backhand. There's a lot of guys who can go the distance physically, 5 sets out there but mightn't be able to even get in the top 10/20 because they don't know how to win a match against a big player, what shots to hit, tactics to use, and then if you get the game plan right, there's implementation too which plenty can't carry out or sometimes choke etc. I think if you're running in a flat out sprint, or marathon etc. you're not really likely to choke, you've either got enough speed/stamina to win the race or you don't. And drugs can aid this process enormously obviously.



The notion that performance enhancing drugs won't help someone become a better tennis player is absolutely ridiculous, especially considering tennis is an INDIVIDUAL sport, so any minuscule advantage is compounded by 100x than team sports.


Basketball, Soccer, American Football, Baseball, etc. are all sports that are team sports, and yet tons of people dope in them. Do performance enhancing drugs help you hit a 100 mph fast ball? Does it help you aim better in soccer? Does it help you become a better perimeter shooter in basketball?


Seriously, stop. And no, tennis players get tested far less than any other individual sport out there in the entire world.
 

Tony48

Legend
Last year, when the ITF released the detailed drug testing for 2009, they included info on missed out of competition drug tests. The Williams sisters and Nadal missed an OOC test before Wimbledon while Federer missed one right before Basel. Several other players (including Simon TWICE) missed an OOC test.

The ITF deleted the missed tests info, but it was archived here (the one with three zeroes are the missed tests)

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/26478361/drug-test-doc

Now all they have is the general statistics.

What does "out of competition" mean? Does that simply mean that they aren't playing?

If so, why is that important? I thought they were tested no matter what.
 
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The notion that performance enhancing drugs won't help someone become a better tennis player is absolutely ridiculous, especially considering tennis is an INDIVIDUAL sport, so any minuscule advantage is compounded by 100x than team sports.


Basketball, Soccer, American Football, Baseball, etc. are all sports that are team sports, and yet tons of people dope in them. Do performance enhancing drugs help you hit a 100 mph fast ball? Does it help you aim better in soccer? Does it help you become a better perimeter shooter in basketball?


Seriously, stop. And no, tennis players get tested far less than any other individual sport out there in the entire world.

Well according to the link JennyS posted, they were shown to be tested every single tournament. there have been very few doping incidents in soccer, but maybe they're just covering up too. I don't follow American sports, but American footballers look like they've all been on body building drugs, never mind anything else more subtle, with no body changes
 

accidental

Hall of Fame
I've never seen a tennis player with Gyno or HGH gut or any other physical signs of a PED user, so they must all be very good at managing the hormonal changes that come with using this, or they just dont use steroids. Maybe they use something else though
 
Without commenting on specific players etc, but as a general statement:
a) tennis testing is not at all rigorous. They are doing the minimum for WADA standards, just like they say too cutely that they are releasing the "minimum" information required.
b) testing at every tournament doesn't constitute rigorous testing. In most sports, athletes know they will be tested at competitions and are smart enough to plan around that.
c) Out of competition testing is the gold standard for rigorous testing - as Fish's tweet shows and as the info released last year showed, tennis has increasingly gone to testing players just before tournaments start and counting that as "out of competition."
d) Last year's detailed info shows almost all testing is urine and almost no blood testing - the latter is the gold standard.
e) This year's times in the Tour de France were about three minutes slower than they were five, six or ten years ago - that's a lifetime in cycling as one journalist noted and clearly indicates the very very rigorous testing cycling finally introduced is having some effect.
I have no idea how widespread ped use is in tennis but for sure the tennis authorities aren't serious about monitoring ped use. They're happy to do "the minimum." Love how they say that here even in the context of releasing the information. They would do themselves a favor by releasing it if indeed there is no problem.
 

ivan_the_terrible

Hall of Fame
I've never seen a tennis player with Gyno or HGH gut or any other physical signs of a PED user, so they must all be very good at managing the hormonal changes that come with using this, or they just dont use steroids. Maybe they use something else though

How about cyclists? Do they exhibit those signs? Yet we know they have been caught using steroids - clenbuterol for example:

http://www.steroid.com/Clenbuterol.php

Fascinating read, here's a few snippets from the article:

So what exactly does a stimulant like Clenbuterol (or Ephedrine) do when it stimulates those Beta Receptors? Well, it serves to increase your body temperature a bit by increasing heat production in the Mitochondria, increase your basal metabolic rate, and decrease your appetite (1). This partly explains how Beta-2 agonists directly stimulate fat cells and increase lypolysis (fat-loss)(1)(13). And also, because Clenbuterol is a Beta-2 agent, clen can decrease insulin sensitivity (2), unfortunately.

And some more ...

Well stick with the earlier 7-9 hour life for dosing purposes, and take our clen every 3.5-4.5 hours that were awake, stopping early enough to still be able to get to bed. Clenbuterol can, in some people, cause insomnia (and as with all stimulants, can cause anxiety in some). Recently, its become popular to take a whopping dose of clen in the morning, and thats it for the day. Theres nothing wrong with this, I guess, but Id rather not go through that kind of roller-coaster of sweating and shaking until it wore off.

some info on

Clenbuterol can also cause a downregulation in testicular androgen receptors and in pulmonary, cardiac and central nervous system beta-adrenergic receptors(6.) possibly making steroids less effective (if there is androgen receptor downregulation elsewhere as well, then its highly probable) while you are on clen; but definitely making clen less effective as time goes on and you keep taking Clenbuterol .

This is where Benadryl comes in...

Like I said, fascinating stuff.
 

Fate Archer

Hall of Fame
Seriously, the ITF is just fueling more power to the conspiracy theorists with this and they actually might be onto something.

I like to give the players the benefit of the doubt, but hiding results that used to be made public (and should stay that way) really hurts the game and their credibility.

2010 would be the most interesting year to follow the test results, I was particularly interested in:

* - Nadal's body response given his suspicious treatment last year, which many contribute to have made his astounding ressurgence possible, culminating on his best and only year holding 3 majors.

* - Serena's test before, during and after Wimbledon. I know she has been through all kinds of misfortunes lately but that story of cutting her feet in a restaurant and then not playing for months is very messy.

I wish I could see the tests of some of my favorite players too.

They should really have made the tests public. Not showing them will only leave the fans and outsiders questioning the so acclaimed integrity of our sport.

It's like the old saying: where there is smoke, there is fire.
 
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D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
Personally I believe Nadal and Serena DO take PED. Nadal - increase your average serve speed by 10 MPH just by changing your grip? Come on! What has happened to that serve since? Serena - 1 year absence due to injury? Does her body even resemble Venus'? Come on now!

My personal belief is let everyone take the latest, greatest PED's in the world. I would like to see 110 MPH fastballs and 600 ft homeruns that touch the cloud. I want to see 9.0 100M dash. I want to see someone serve 160MPH. What about old records and their sanctity? Hogwash! Today's athletes have far, far better diet, computerized analysis, training program that the athletes of yesteryears did not have. So how is that fair comparison? Compare the bikes and helmets they wear now in Tour de France compared to those of 50 years ago. They are not even close.

As documented by "Real Sports" on HBO, there is ZERO proof that steroids have any long, harmful effects on grown human beings. Sure your sacs shrink but they grow back once you stop taking steroids. I mean, the doctors prescribe steroids to sick patients so they can be healthier. Enough with the absurd pretensions. Let the athletes take whatever they want and let a player play!
 

Caesar

Banned
As documented by "Real Sports" on HBO, there is ZERO proof that steroids have any long, harmful effects on grown human beings.
lol. "I watched this show on TV and PEDs are totally safe!" Hilarious.

Steroids are addictive and often trigger severe psychological side effects, not to mention being linked to nasty stuff like liver tumours. Beta2 adrenergic agonists can cause severe respiratory probems, to the point where the FDA doesn't even let doctors prescribe them for non-PE use. HGH does all sorts of nasty crap to joints and muscles, can trigger early onset arthritis and diabetes. EPO is linked to increased risk of strokes and heart attacks. The list of dangers go on.

Even if you accept that PEDs are relatively safe at a specific level, you still have to enforce that. Do you not think that managers, coaches, sponsors are going to push athletes to take more drugs at the expense of their health? Do you not think that the athletes themselves will be tempted? They ran a survey on doping at the Atlanta Olympics. Half the athletes interviewed admitted they would be willing to take a drug - even if it would eventually kill them - if it let them win every event they competed in for five years in a row.

Legalising doping achieves nothing because you just shift from trying to stop people from doping, to trying to stop them from doping beyond a certain level - and that's even harder.

Never mind the whole strain of argument about how the sport becomes a competition over who has the best chemist.

Seriously, one of the more idiotic things I've read on this board. And that's saying a fair bit.
 
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Pwned

Hall of Fame
lol. "I watched this show on TV and PEDs are totally safe!" Hilarious.

Steroids are addictive and often trigger severe psychological side effects, not to mention being linked to nasty stuff like liver tumours. Beta2 adrenergic agonists can cause severe respiratory probems, to the point where the FDA doesn't even let doctors prescribe them for non-PE use. HGH does all sorts of nasty crap to joints and muscles, can trigger early onset arthritis and diabetes. EPO is linked to increased risk of strokes and heart attacks.

Even if you accept that PEDs are relatively safe at a specific level, you still have to enforce that. Do you not think that managers, coaches, sponsors are going to push athletes to take more drugs at the expense of their health? Do you not think that the athletes themselves will be tempted? They ran a survey on doping at the Atlanta Olympics. Half the athletes interviewed admitted they would be willing to take a drug - even if it would eventually kill them - if it let them win every event they competed in for five years in a row.

Legalising doping achieves nothing because you just shift from trying to stop people from doping, to trying to stop them from doping beyond a certain level - and that's even harder.

Never mind the whole strain of argument about how the sport becomes a competition over who has the best chemist.

Seriously, one of the more idiotic things I've read on this board. And that's saying a fair bit.
You must not read your own posts.
 

Caesar

Banned
You must not read your own posts.
Hardly counts when they're supposed to be stupid. This board is so full of retards like yourself that I spend most of my posts trolling them.

I signed up to read the other forums and I couldn't believe the amount of teenaged idiocy in the pro forum. It was like a car crash, I couldn't look away.
 
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klementine

Hall of Fame
Personally I believe Nadal and Serena DO take PED. Nadal - increase your average serve speed by 10 MPH just by changing your grip? Come on! What has happened to that serve since? Serena - 1 year absence due to injury? Does her body even resemble Venus'? Come on now!

My personal belief is let everyone take the latest, greatest PED's in the world. I would like to see 110 MPH fastballs and 600 ft homeruns that touch the cloud. I want to see 9.0 100M dash. I want to see someone serve 160MPH. What about old records and their sanctity? Hogwash! Today's athletes have far, far better diet, computerized analysis, training program that the athletes of yesteryears did not have. So how is that fair comparison? Compare the bikes and helmets they wear now in Tour de France compared to those of 50 years ago. They are not even close.

As documented by "Real Sports" on HBO, there is ZERO proof that steroids have any long, harmful effects on grown human beings. Sure your sacs shrink but they grow back once you stop taking steroids. I mean, the doctors prescribe steroids to sick patients so they can be healthier. Enough with the absurd pretensions. Let the athletes take whatever they want and let a player play!


I hope this is sarcasm....

I have a buddy of mine who was into weight lifting and did some circuits trying to make it pro..... used steroids/HGH for over a decade.... the man is 32y.o. , is sterile and has just received news of prostate cancer....

A quote from Lyle Alzado.... who was taking HGH harvested from human corpses.... and eventually died of a brain tumor.

"I started taking anabolic steroids in 1969 and never stopped. It was addicting, mentally addicting. Now I'm sick, and I'm scared. Ninety percent of the athletes I know are on the stuff. We're not born to be 300 lb (140 kg) or jump 30 ft (9.1 m). But all the time I was taking steroids, I knew they were making me play better. I became very violent on the field and off it. I did things only crazy people do. Once a guy sideswiped my car and I beat the hell out of him. Now look at me. My hair's gone, I wobble when I walk and have to hold on to someone for support, and I have trouble remembering things. My last wish? That no one else ever dies this way."

Maybe both instances were coincidence.... my opinion is not. More research needs to be done.... but endorsing the use of PED's is completely ludicrous in my opinion.
 
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D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
Hardly counts when they're supposed to be stupid. This board is so full of retards like yourself that I spend most of my posts trolling them.

I signed up to read the other forums and I couldn't believe the amount of teenaged idiocy in the pro forum. It was like a car crash, I couldn't look away.

Geez, don't get so emotional. You clearly seem to have some anger issues. Ok, so I guess you are more of an expert than the medical doctors (who have done extensive research) they interviewed. All you are doing is copying and pasting something that the media put on the internet without actual proof or evidence. But people like you are easily duped. "Real Sports" said they would be many people like you.

Even if there were proof that steroids has long-term harmful effects (which there isn't) the poll shows 50% of the athletes would STILL take them to enhance their performance. Alcohol, tobacco and even sodium nitrate (a known carcinogen) in hot dogs do more harm than steroids. So should we limit or eliminate people from buying them at the supermarket? Let the 50% take PED and live their glory. The other 50% can be in the dog house with their wives.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
I hope this is sarcasm....

I have a buddy of mine who was into weight lifting and did some circuits trying to make it pro..... used steroids/HGH for over a decade.... the man is 32y.o. , is sterile and has just received news of prostate cancer....

A quote from Lyle Alzado.... who was taking HGH harvested from human corpses.... and eventually died of a brain tumor.

"I started taking anabolic steroids in 1969 and never stopped. It was addicting, mentally addicting. Now I'm sick, and I'm scared. Ninety percent of the athletes I know are on the stuff. We're not born to be 300 lb (140 kg) or jump 30 ft (9.1 m). But all the time I was taking steroids, I knew they were making me play better. I became very violent on the field and off it. I did things only crazy people do. Once a guy sideswiped my car and I beat the hell out of him. Now look at me. My hair's gone, I wobble when I walk and have to hold on to someone for support, and I have trouble remembering things. My last wish? That no one else ever dies this way."

Maybe both instances were coincidence.... my opinion is not. More research needs to be done.... but endorsing the use of PED's is completely ludicrous in my opinion.

The medical doctors DID the research, for years. One NFL player out of hundreds or thousands who took steroids is not proof. He died of cancer, not from taking steroids. As far his anger, he was a raving lunatic and was using steroids as an excuse. There is NO correlation. In fact the doctors prescribe steroids to the patients whose muscles are atrophying from diseases.
 

Caesar

Banned
I'm not angry, I just find it hilarious. Baiting ****s is great fun.

PEDs, like most drugs, have the potential to be hugely harmful if abused. The drive for athletes to succeed means that they WILL abuse them if it will give them an extra edge, regardless of the health consequences.

What I am saying is not exactly controversial. Read a book or something. Stop getting your information from Sportscentre or whatever crap you kids watch these days. The idea that you've watched a dodgy half hour documentary and now think you know all about PEDs is classic.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
I'm not angry, I just find it hilarious. Baiting ****s is great fun.

PEDs, like most drugs, have the potential to be hugely harmful if abused. The drive for athletes to succeed means that they WILL abuse them if it will give them an extra edge, regardless of the health consequences.

What I am saying is not exactly controversial. Read a book or something. Stop getting your information from Sportscentre or whatever crap you kids watch these days. The idea that you've watched a dodgy half hour documentary and now think you know all about PEDs is classic.

Funny how you evaded all my valid points and resorted to childish attacks.
 

klementine

Hall of Fame
The medical doctors DID the research, for years. One NFL player out of hundreds or thousands who took steroids is not proof. He died of cancer, not from taking steroids. As far his anger, he was a raving lunatic and was using steroids as an excuse. There is NO correlation. In fact the doctors prescribe steroids to the patients whose muscles are atrophying from diseases.

I understand this.... even cortizone and lipids(fats) are steroids....snake venom is even used in medicine... but I ain't lookin' to get bitten. Any drug used under doctor supervision can be beneficial and therapuetic... this is completely the opposite of 'shooting' yourself-up on a daily basis after work-outs/injuries.

Until modern medicine is 100% positive that certain steroids (excluding ones such as cortizone) and/or the abuse of steroids is not harmful... the debate will go on.

And they should have no place in professional sports.
 

Caesar

Banned
Funny how you evaded all my valid points and resorted to childish attacks.
You have no valid points. I have pointed out how they are harmful if abused, and how PEDs inherently encourage abuse, and how impossible it is to prevent that abuse if you allow their use in competition.

You just keep repeating that the guys on Sportscentre say they're okay. Which completely misses the actual point.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Lol yawn what a surprise, obvious PED Nadal was obvious at USO.

If you're taking PED's, you don't suddenly start playing insanely for one tournament.

Rafa was in the zone and was really hungry for his USO title. End of story.
 
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