The Last of the Woodies -post your photos`s and comments of open throated mid-sized woodies

[Backspin to the Future]

Having bought a few Mid-Size woodies over the last few months and being inspired by the woodie tournament pics by kevin qmto I thought I`d start a new thread on the last hurrah of wood rackets.
For a few years they briefly co-existed with both the regular head size wood rackets as well as the small and mid-size new generation graphite/composite ones.
The Prince OG and Max 200G and a few others tend to hog the lime light from the early 1980`s.
Get your Middies out and show them off !
I`m sure some played like bricks but others can be really fun to use.
My particular faves to use are the Golden Ace and the McEnroe Tournament .neither will give you the power of their graphite rivals at the time- but many had better paint jobs

I`ll start the ball rolling with my current collection:

Dunlop John McEnroe Tournament
Dunlop John McEnroe Pro
Dunlop Maxply Superlight Mid
Slazenger Vilas V24
Snauweart Mesofibre One
Snauweart Mesofibre Two
Pro Kennex Golden Ace Boron

 

[retrowagen]

Great thread.
I don’t have photos to post, but I do have a nice selection of these “omega woods” in my personal collection, and every so often will convince my hitting partners to play sets with them. I’ve got:

Head Vilas
Head Edgewood
Snauwaert Graphite LaGrande Mid
Snauwaert Meso Graphite Superlight
Pro Kennex Golden Ace
Pro Kennex Blue Ace
Fischer Powerwood
Dunlop A-Player Plus

The Snauwaerts and Edgewood are my favorites: super smooth!

 

[Moldyoak]

I believe I had read somewhere - I don't recall where, but it may have been here - that the Head Edgewood was being developed as the "next" racquet for Vilas right before he ditched Head. Anyone know if there is truth to this? Just looking at them together, it sure does like like a slightly larger, beefed-up Head Vilas.

I'll need to go dig though my racquets to check but I have a Rossignol racquet that I swear is a carbon-copy of the Head Vilas. I'd love to play around with a Slazenger Vilas racquet if I find one in good shape sooner or later.

 

[kevin qmto]

I believe I had read somewhere - I don't recall where, but it may have been here - that the Head Edgewood was being developed as the "next" racquet for Vilas right before he ditched Head. Anyone know if there is truth to this?

Is it any wonder that the Slazenger Vilas Pro looks an awful lot like the Head Edgewood? Food for thought. maybe he'd hit with the Head, liked it, but Slazenger offered him a better contract so he asked them to just clone the Head?

 

[kevin qmto]

Anyways, here's some of my favorite wood frames, starting with my Adidas Cosmos. This exceedingly rare open throat wood is labeled as being "Oversize" but really that's about 102sq in. Certainly enormous by wood racket standards though, and has a nice style about it. I dig the beefy throat swells and fade paint work.

Next, is my workhorse woodie. Pro Kennex Blue Ace. I use this thing in every Woodie Classic and it's helped get my team on the 1st place podium twice in four years. I've even used it in a regular league match just on a whim, and I managed to win. 85sq in and perfectly balanced for my tastes, and excellent spin from the Gamma Ocho XP 17 shaped multi strings. Build quality feels like a work of art. This is the best of the best as far as I'm concerned when it comes to graphite reinforced wood rackets.

This is an odd one. Bard made a fairly upmarket open throat woodie in the form of this Natural Fire. It bares a strong resemblance to the Dunlop A-Player, but I have that as well and holding them up next to each other they're not identical. This one is strung up with some thick, plush nylon strings. It's super comfy to swing but I hope you like hitting flat balls because this thing is allergic to wristy spinny shots. But it's still a hoot to use.

Speaking of: Here's my Dunlop A-Player. there's an all gold graphics variant, and this gold/red one. I prefer this one. Hits swell, a touch heavier than my Pro Kennex woods but feels similar. it should has it comes from Kunnan Lo. This has a dense string pattern but with the Gamma Asterisk strings I put in it, spin generation is moderate. This is my main loaner midsize wood frame.

 

[Backspin to the Future]

You have some great examples of rare rackets there Kevin..the Adidas is huge by woodie standards- and I`ve not even heard of the Bard brand.
It occurred to me the other day that I can`t ever recall seeing an oversize woodie by Wilson -did they make any?
I know Wilson were a bit slow getting up to speed with the introduction of graphite but producing oversize wood rackets would surely have been a relatively cheap and easy way to follow the increased head size trend at the time.
Most of the examples of the oversize woodies seem to be just jig saw cut laminates with very little in the way of finishing (such as rounded off edges etc ) ..maybe this helped offset the costs of sometimes incorporating carbon fibre /fibreglass or other materials .

 

[kevin qmto]

You have some great examples of rare rackets there Kevin..the Adidas is huge by woodie standards- and I`ve not even heard of the Bard brand.
It occurred to me the other day that I can`t ever recall seeing an oversize woodie by Wilson -did they make any?
I know Wilson were a bit slow getting up to speed with the introduction of graphite but producing oversize wood rackets would surely have been a relatively cheap and easy way to follow the increased head size trend at the time.
Most of the examples of the oversize woodies seem to be just jig saw cut laminates with very little in the way of finishing (such as rounded off edges etc ) ..maybe this helped offset the costs of sometimes incorporating carbon fibre /fibreglass or other materials .

Wilson did make a few uncommon midsize and even oversize graphite wood hybrids, along with a radical snowshoe shaped one called the Legacy, so Wilson certainly dipped their toes into this graphite wood genre. not sure which territories they were sold in though, they are also ultra rare. Here's some images I've saved, I don't own these. You see them lined up next to an Edgewood and a Prince Woodie, showing its even larger than it. Maybe @Sanglier would know more.

 

[Backspin to the Future]

You are a mine of info @kevin -thanks .
I`ve not even seen them pop up for sale on the auction site.
The intoduction of the metal Prince Classic obviously jolted them into action .

 

[kevin qmto]

Here's the highlights from the grass at the Woodie Classic this past weekend. It can be kinda hard to tell anyone apart when we're all wearing mostly white, but I'm the only one in a black hat and orange shoes (It's actually a pro kennex cap lol). The first match had the better opponents. In the 2nd match, once we got up double digit games on them, their effort dropped, which is understandable.

Here's the most staged-looking-not-staged photo of me ever. The event coordinator just walked out and snapped a few pics while standing near the net as I was getting ready to poach a return. I might not be wearing super old clothes, but that Prince shirt I'm wearing is from the 90's. You can tell by the fact that it's a Large, which I wear all the time, yet the sleeves go down to my elbows, which was the style at the time. It's also super thick. polyester, but much more dense than the shirts of today and man was it ever hot out there wearing it.

 

[Backspin to the Future]

Here's the highlights from the grass at the Woodie Classic this past weekend. It can be kinda hard to tell anyone apart when we're all wearing mostly white, but I'm the only one in a black hat and orange shoes (It's actually a pro kennex cap lol). The first match had the better opponents. In the 2nd match, once we got up double digit games on them, their effort dropped, which is understandable.

Here's the most staged-looking-not-staged photo of me ever. The event coordinator just walked out and snapped a few pics while standing near the net as I was getting ready to poach a return. I might not be wearing super old clothes, but that Prince shirt I'm wearing is from the 90's. You can tell by the fact that it's a Large, which I wear all the time, yet the sleeves go down to my elbows, which was the style at the time. It's also super thick. polyester, but much more dense than the shirts of today and man was it ever hot out there wearing it.

Fun vid ..difficult to fathom which was the bigger challenge -moving around on a grass court or playing with the woodies

 

[ey039524]

I'm playing regularly w my Prince woodie the last 2 months. Head size is reportedly slightly more than 100 (102?). Fun stuff. Wish we had grass near me.

 

[Sanglier]

Wilson did make a few uncommon midsize and even oversize graphite wood hybrids, along with a radical snowshoe shaped one called the Legacy, so Wilson certainly dipped their toes into this graphite wood genre. not sure which territories they were sold in though, they are also ultra rare. Here's some images I've saved, I don't own these. You see them lined up next to an Edgewood and a Prince Woodie, showing its even larger than it. Maybe @Sanglier would know more.

I am not familiar with either of these models, I'm afraid, but the graphics on them suggest they came out in 1981-1982, around the time of the "Tempest" and the first graphite "Sting". A look at the butt cap code could have eliminated much of this mystery.

All I can say is that they are very likely made by SanHoSun, the first racquet maker in Taiwan, originally set up to sub-contract for Kawasaki. They were the biggest Taiwanese supplier for Wilson, while Kunnan produced many wooden frames for Bancroft. In fact, even after SanHoSun created a subsidiary to make fully synthetic frames, their main factory continued to be dedicated to wooden racquet manufacturing. As demand for graphites grew however, they gradually shifted production resources at their main site towards the new stuff, but did not fully stop making woodies until 1984! Among the major Taiwanese contractors, they were the first to cut the cord, so wooden frames continued to come out of Taiwan even after that, though the total number of woodie factories shrunk from 50 or so at their peak to only half a dozen at the end.

Not all graphite-faced woodies were made by Kunnan, obviously, SunHoSun produced them as well (the two you have shown being strong candidates thereof), as did Taiwan Strong and a couple of others. Prince and Wilson also didn't limit themselves to working with exclusive contractors when they had a choice, so it's virtually impossible to tell who actually made what today (absent explicit markers like Wilson's butt cap code). Quality varied too, according to Harvey Chung, Kunnan's San Diego-based resin supplier, who was responsible for optimizing the glue binding the graphite facing to the plywood frame. He blended the adhesive with a proprietary amount of rubber to ensure adequate flex during use, and was quite certain that his special blend was superior to all others in preventing delamination between the stiff graphite facing and the more flexible wooden core structure. However, I don't think delamination ever became a big issue affecting this type of racquets in the decades since (in contrast to the aluminum sandwiches); so Chung's secret blend of 11 spices may not have made as big of a difference as he had anticipated.

 

[retrowagen]

I’ve seen some delamination between the graphite face and the plywood “sandwich” on open throated mids, particularly c. 1982-1983 Dunlops made in Taiwan (which seemed to be Kunnan contract products, by the look of them). So maybe Chef Chung’s secret sauce was still under development in the test kitchen? Or only applied to the PK dishes??

I have the Wilson Legacy wood-boron “snowshoe” in my collection, forgot about it, the Prince Woodie (which must qualify as the world’s most torsionally stable racquet; it is NOT manoeuverable), and also the slightly interesting Snauwaert Dyno Wood mid. It’s monoshaft, though.

Donnay produced a stunning array of open-throated wood composites circa 1980-1984, most of which were done up in matte black with the strong (Francois Garet?) graphic stripes, to disguise them as graphite frames. Many of them were made out of lighter (less dense/less strong/less durable!) wood. My 1983 “Wimbledon Mid” looked like something Borg would use, but played as though it was a Balsa composite: ALL amplitude and NO cycle on the vibration dissipation—the polar opposite of the Kuebler widebody theorem! Mine warped under the tension of its cheap factory nylon string job witin a few weeks, and later, when the slick leather grip made itself known as I tried an overhead smash and spiked the frame into splinters on a California hardcourt. I was not unhappy about it, and replaced the Donnay with a Head Graphite Vector, which by comparison was a glorious weapon.

 

[Sanglier]

I’ve seen some delamination between the graphite face and the plywood “sandwich” on open throated mids, particularly c. 1982-1983 Dunlops made in Taiwan (which seemed to be Kunnan contract products, by the look of them). So maybe Chef Chung’s secret sauce was still under development in the test kitchen? Or only applied to the PK dishes??

SanHoSun was a huge Dunlop contractor; it's very possible that your delaminated sandwiches were SanHoSun products, in which case this would be anecdotal evidence that Chef Chung was actually on to something!

SanHoSun's founder was technical, unlike Kunnan Lo. The latter relied heavily on Chung and several other hires to work out the manufacturing recipes, whereas the former often trusted his own knowledge and instinct on such matters. Chung was a US-trained and based chemist. SanHoSun's founder started out as a mechanical engineer in the Japanese Navy (Taiwan was a Japanese colony when these people were growing up). Their skillsets didn't really overlap. Many competitors downplayed the importance of Chung's expertise in chemistry later on, but logically, it should have made a difference.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Here's the ISI Golden Sovereign that looks like a nice Taiwanese product. ISI appear to have been like a UK version of Bard\HB, with mail order offerings and a few stores.

 

[Snaab]

Had a short hit with my Dunlop A-Player recently. TBH I think I could use it in a match if necessary. Obviously the power level is low, but the control and feel is awesome.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Is it any wonder that the Slazenger Vilas Pro looks an awful lot like the Head Edgewood? Food for thought. maybe he'd hit with the Head, liked it, but Slazenger offered him a better contract so he asked them to just clone the Head?

I don't think so, as Vilas never used the Vilas Pro midsize. After the Head Vilas, he stuck with Standards (XRC in 1980, Slazenger Argentina / Vilas Tour in 1981) until the mid-size V-24 in 1982, which was a unique Made in England model; and he used that through to the end of 1984 before moving to Puma.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Had a short hit with my Dunlop A-Player recently. TBH I think I could use it in a match if necessary. Obviously the power level is low, but the control and feel is awesome.

I'm still searching for an A-Player. Can you see the graphite facings under the clear-coat, like you can on the A-Player Plus?

 

[Snaab]

I'm still searching for an A-Player. Can you see the graphite facings under the clear-coat, like you can on the A-Player Plus?

Grafil - the top black carbon sheets have a "smokey-ness" to them. Is that what you are referring to?

 

[TennisLBC]

My first tennis racquet was the Wilson Stan Smith. I bought it in fall of 1982. Stan Smith was no longer playing with Wilson; he was with Fischer. I got the racquet on sale. After that stick, played with the Pro Kennex Golden Ace for about 5 years before buying my first graphite racquet.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Grafil - the top black carbon sheets have a "smokey-ness" to them. Is that what you are referring to?

Yep, I think that's the sign of non-woven carbon-fibre mat.

 

[kevin qmto]

Posted this in the goodwill thread, but might as well show it off here too as it fits the title. Slazenger Vilas Pro. not sure what year this dates to, they all seem to be from around 1980-84. If the graphite/wood racket had a heyday that was likely it?

 

[Grafil Injection]

You can probably narrow it down one year to 1981-4, since Vilas didn't move to Slazenger until then.

The construction of the Made in England V-24 and Ruzici Pro are also like that, with the covered inner throat and no top handle piece, so I expect there was input from Horbury on the Vilas Pro too.

 

[kevin qmto]

You can probably narrow it down one year to 1981-4, since Vilas didn't move to Slazenger until then.

The construction of the Made in England V-24 and Ruzici Pro are also like that, with the covered inner throat and no top handle piece, so I expect there was input from Horbury on the Vilas Pro too.

Sorry I meant the ‘era’ of the graphite wood hybrid in general, not this specific frame. If you can even give them an era. More like their existence within the dawn of the graphite transition.

 

[retrowagen]

The Vilas Pro was available circa 1983. Was one notch down from the V-24, which was the actual frame used by Vilas, as well as Pat Cash.

 

[kevin qmto]

The Vilas Pro was available circa 1983. Was one notch down from the V-24, which was the actual frame used by Vilas, as well as Pat Cash.

Wonder what the stats differences are. I think the blue of the Pro looks way better than the brown V24 personally.

 

[Backspin to the Future]

Wonder what the stats differences are. I think the blue of the Pro looks way better than the brown V24 personally

It`s difficult to see in photo`s but the V-24 is actually a very deep maroon colour and you can just about make out a mesh matrix underneath.
In sunlight the colour becomes more apparent

my racket`s a bit battle scarred but you get the idea

 

[Moldyoak]

Can I assume that the V24 and the Vilas Pro are slightly larger head size than the older Head Vilas? I've got a fever and the only prescription is a V24 but not having one here, I'm not positive on head size. I assume the two Slazenger models are comparable to the Head Edgewood? Wondering if the "24" indicates 24% more surface area than earlier standard.

I think these early 80s racquets with the expanding head sizes were certainly the last gasp of the woods, but also were probably built with the most techno improvements to enhance both stiffness and stability as well as to enhance power.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Can I assume that the V24 and the Vilas Pro are slightly larger head size than the older Head Vilas? I've got a fever and the only prescription is a V24 but not having one here, I'm not positive on head size. I assume the two Slazenger models are comparable to the Head Edgewood? Wondering if the "24" indicates 24% more surface area than earlier standard.

I think these early 80s racquets with the expanding head sizes were certainly the last gasp of the woods, but also were probably built with the most techno improvements to enhance both stiffness and stability as well as to enhance power.

Yes, the 24 refers to +24%, which from Dunlop's 68sqi standard equates to 84.32sqi. I've compared mine to the MAX 200G (also listed as 84sqi), and they are very close.

I think most of the various Taiwan models are a touch smaller, around 82sqi.

The V-24 is also thicker-beamed than most, being 19mm where the fibreglass facings are, and 17mm at the upper hoop. Most of the Taiwan models are around 15-17mm thick.

 

[Moldyoak]

Thanks for that info. I'm definitely going to have to track one down and have fun comparing to my Heads.

 

[kevin qmto]

Played with my Blue Ace again on grass. Was trying to break the strings as they appear about to go, but they held together. Some of the scuffs at the top of the exposed wood have accumulated some grass stains. Which I’m kinda low key proud of. Not many tennis rackets these days are acquiring fresh grass stains on them I think. I was gonna scrub em off, then was like “I think I’ll keep them!”

 

[Cerbo]

Rossignol GW200
Composition: Ply / Graphite Composite.
Strung Weight: 355g
Beam Width: 15mm
Head Size: Approx.85in? (Is slightly smaller than PS90)
Balance: 325mm

Quite a well made racket, and feels lovely in your hand.

I would like to playtest this model someday!

 

[kevin qmto]

Might as well post this here too, though its head size might not qualify as midsized, it seems slightly larger than the average woodie. I know I'm not the only one around here with a Head Vilas, but it's my latest find. Was this one of the first graphite reinforced open throat wood frames? Check out the top of the hoop with the wide black section, was there an internal graphite layer that they laminated around? Looks neat, man this thing looks about 10 ply at the top of the hop! Well crafted for sure, we'll have to see how it hits before the end of my current wood obsession phase. The strings are highly textured as well, anyone know what they might be? Should be excellent at generating topspin.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Although the Head Vilas is usually mentioned as standard Standard sized, I agree they seem to be a little larger like 72sqi. Could you measure the maximum internal length and width, then we'd have a better idea.

The thick black wedge at the top is fibreglass per Head's description:

'Take a close look at Guillermo Vilas’ Head racket. It’s not wood like other rackets are wood. This one has two layers of graphite completely encompassing the head. It also has a black, thick wedge of fiberglass up at the top, as well as fiberglass face sheets top and bottom. The two layers of graphite make this racket more powerful than a racket made of wood alone. The fiberglass wedge puts weight and strength behind the stroke.'

Those strings look like black gut to me. Result!

 

[onehandbh]

I have a Jack Kramer midsize that is a wood racquet with some graphite. It does not have a V throat like the Vilas or Prince Woodie. Looks like a regular Jack Kramer Auto wood racquet but with an ever so slightly larger headsize. I haven't played with it yet.

 

[onehandbh]

IMO. the racquets like the Head Vilas & Prince Woodie with the open V throat are far superior to the other wood racquets without it. I haven't tried the Vilas but the Prince Woodie plays like a graphite racquet to me. Stable, good power, etc.

 

[onehandbh]

@kevin qmto How did you do in the wood tournament? Your serve looked unreturnable on grass.

 

[kevin qmto]

@kevin qmto How did you do in the wood tournament? Your serve looked unreturnable on grass.

There's so many players now, one can't really be the overall 'winner' of the event, as you only play 3 one set matches and whoever got the most games in each 50 min session is the section winner (there were 9 sections). my dubs team won our section easily. When the event was smaller it was more of a traditional tournament format.

 

[Moldyoak]

Might as well post this here too, though its head size might not qualify as midsized, it seems slightly larger than the average woodie. I know I'm not the only one around here with a Head Vilas, but it's my latest find. Was this one of the first graphite reinforced open throat wood frames? Check out the top of the hoop with the wide black section, was there an internal graphite layer that they laminated around? Looks neat, man this thing looks about 10 ply at the top of the hop! Well crafted for sure, we'll have to see how it hits before the end of my current wood obsession phase. The strings are highly textured as well, anyone know what they might be? Should be excellent at generating topspin.

I don't have nearly the talent of a lot of you guys but I truly, truly love hitting with woods. These Vilas racquets imho seem considerably stiffer with much less flex than a more typical monoshaft racquet, whether it be a Dunlop or Wilson or whatever. I just strung a couple up at around 50-52 lbs with gut and honestly wish I had gone lower, like maybe low 40s for my tastes. I like to feel a good degree of flex and I like the 'pocket' feel. I don't feel that with these at 50+.

 

[onehandbh]

There's so many players now, one can't really be the overall 'winner' of the event, as you only play 3 one set matches and whoever got the most games in each 50 min session is the section winner (there were 9 sections). my dubs team won our section easily. When the event was smaller it was more of a traditional tournament format.

I've been thinking of organizing a wood racquet tournament.

Need to collect a bunch of wood racquets
bc I think a lot of people don't have one.

 

[Antónis]

I had a Browning contact in the 80's (actually two), like this one, had a red cover

https://flic.kr/p/2rm82RC

 

[WYK]

 

[kevin qmto]

That’s about 5g heavier than mine. What’s the grip size?

 

[WYK]

That’s about 5g heavier than mine. What’s the grip size?

4 1/2. I've had this one for quite some time. Veelium now has it.

 

[Crocodile]

My first and last open throat woodie was a composite made by Pro Kennex called the Golden Ace. It was pretty popular in the day and for PK it was the start of many Ace series graphite composite frames. It was easier to use that the Vilas V24 and more mobile and cheaper than a Prince Woodie.
Incidentally, here in Australia we had a company called Emrik and they released their version which was called the Vila 2000 and a smaller frame called the Stratos, stellar also released one as well,

 

[galain]

I would like to playtest this model someday!

I suspect this Rossignol frame is the same as the PK Blue Ace which is the same as the Emrik Vila 2000. I'm pretty sure I've seen this frame under another cosmetic too somehwere but I can't recall which brand at the moment. I could well be wrong but they look very very similar to each other. I have the Emrik version - it's a really nice hitting stick.

 

[Cerbo]

I suspect this Rossignol frame is the same as the PK Blue Ace which is the same as the Emrik Vila 2000. I'm pretty sure I've seen this frame under another cosmetic too somehwere but I can't recall which brand at the moment. I could well be wrong but they look very very similar to each other. I have the Emrik version - it's a really nice hitting stick.

To me, these look like two very different frames.
Compared to 'Emrik Vila 2000', 'Rossignol GW200' has a shorter head which is wider near the throat, throat itself is longer, and the handle is shorter.
{{{I've just realized my location didn't show on my profile (it's fixed now). I guess you don't live anywhere near Serbia?}}}

And 'Pro Kennex Blue Ace' looks like knock of 'Rossignol GW200'.

 

[ey039524]

That’s about 5g heavier than mine. What’s the grip size?

I have 6 woodies. I need to check again, but I recall mine being in the 360 g range, which is more reasonable for me to use (I've been using them exclusively for about 2 months now).

My struggle is finding any (so far) that are very head light. Most are slightly head light or neutral.

 

[galain]

To me, these look like two very different frames.
Compared to 'Emrik Vila 2000', 'Rossignol GW200' has a shorter head which is wider near the throat, throat itself is longer, and the handle is shorter.
{{{I've just realized my location didn't show on my profile (it's fixed now). I guess you don't live anywhere near Serbia?}}}

And 'Pro Kennex Blue Ace' looks like knock of 'Rossignol GW200'.

I live in Germany these days but my Vila 2000 is still in Australia waiting to join me!

You're right - the shaft is slightly different, although the Vila 2000 I'm familiar with is a blue and black frame. I'm not sure if there could have have been different versions or if they just changed the colourway at some point. Sadly I'm not able to grab mine right now to confirm.

 

[WYK]

I have 6 woodies. I need to check again, but I recall mine being in the 360 g range, which is more reasonable for me to use (I've been using them exclusively for about 2 months now).

My struggle is finding any (so far) that are very head light. Most are slightly head light or neutral.

This one is hugely head light. Likely because it is very bottom heavy...