The last time Djokovic made a slam loss competitive was Wim 23

[The_Order]

Fed had only one weak Slam (2018 AO) though lol

He's a complete joke of a poster... everyone knows this by now...

Before AO22 final he said Med was gonna ROFLSTOMP Nadal in the final...

He's been crying hard since that match.

 

[objection_]

AO 2018 was a significantly easier draw than 2006
2006 had Haas, Davy and Baggy.

I'd say djokovic vultured Wim 19, Wim 21, Wim 22, AO 20, AO 21, AO 23, RG 23, USO 23. that's 8 slams.

nadal in USO 17 level was really no better than fed in AO 18 IMO.
he vultured USO 17, USO 19, AO 22, RG 22 atleast and I'd say he'd lose one of RG 18-20 in a decent field. so 5 slams.

Shame what happened to Chung in AO 18, was playing such good tennis. Beat djoko, zverev, med iirc before succumbing to blisters. From my recollection Berdych wasn't too bad, beat delpo the round before and had set points on fed in the 1st??

Pretty high on Davy's level in 06 but Baggy ran out of gas in the last 2 sets after the comeback against Nalby so brings it down a bit of a notch.

Agree with the wims for Djoko (RBA in the SF while Fedal battled against each other LOL... meanwhile djokefans will put down Nadal in USO 10 and 13 for facing Youzhny and Gasquet)... bit harsh on some of the AO ones... I reckon 20 was alright with Thiem playing a pretty good tourney and 23 is my guilty pleasure as Djoko was nuking the ball... Rog really could have used the faster courts between 08-13 haha.

Kinda have to agree with @The_Order with US18 belonging in a similar tier with US17. Also can't reasonably say that Nadal of all people vultured any RG's. If anyone's shown a level to win a slam at any point in their career it's Nadal. I think he beat 4 top 10s at RG 22, and RG 20 was a strong enough performance. The last real performances that I think would be able to put up a fight against RG18/19 Nadal anyways are 14 Djok and 15 Wawa, who I'd consider strongish competition and a decent field.

 

[abmk]

Shame what happened to Chung in AO 18, was playing such good tennis. Beat djoko, zverev, med iirc before succumbing to blisters. From my recollection Berdych wasn't too bad, beat delpo the round before and had set points on fed in the 1st??

Pretty high on Davy's level in 06 but Baggy ran out of gas in the last 2 sets after the comeback against Nalby so brings it down a bit of a notch.

Agree with the wims for Djoko (RBA in the SF while Fedal battled against each other LOL... meanwhile djokefans will put down Nadal in USO 10 and 13 for facing Youzhny and Gasquet)... bit harsh on some of the AO ones... I reckon 20 was alright with Thiem playing a pretty good tourney and 23 is my guilty pleasure as Djoko was nuking the ball... Rog really could have used the faster courts between 08-13 haha.

Kinda have to agree with @The_Order with US18 belonging in a similar tier with US17. Also can't reasonably say that Nadal of all people vultured any RG's. If anyone's shown a level to win a slam at any point in their career it's Nadal. I think he beat 4 top 10s at RG 22, and RG 20 was a strong enough performance. The last real performances that I think would be able to put up a fight against RG18/19 Nadal anyways are 14 Djok and 15 Wawa, who I'd consider strongish competition and a decent field.

As AO 18 on that list, AO 20 also goes in. Weak draw before the final and one very good opponent (not excellent) in the final isn't enough. not much to chose b/w Cilic of AO 18 and Thiem of AO 20.

Chung had potential off the ground, but lack of serve and injuries did him in.
Berdych thrashed delpo in AO 18, had SPs vs fed in the 1st set yes, but form dipped in that match and was merely a decent opponent in that match overall. Actually AO 18 in general was berdych's last good slam performance.

USO 18 while weak still had to 2 top 10 opponents and Djokovic was playing at a clearly higher level than nadal in USO 17 IMO and had better stamina than him.
Put it this way, if I had to chose b/w fed AO 17, nadal USO 17, fed AO 18 and djoko USO 18, djoko USO 18 level including stamina/level for long haul is clearly better enough to be a differentiator.

nadal had pretty easy draws till the final in USO 10/13, but its irrelevant to this talk about vulturing as nadal was at his peak.

vulturing is only when level is not high enough (enough cracks to be seen in the game) AND competition not good.

RG 22 is debatable with djoko and FAA, but Nadal got off lucky with Zverev injury in the SF and Ruud was an absolute rollover in the final. But nadal was definitely beatable in 4R/SF. wasn't really great in the first half of the final either tbh.

I didn't say RG 20 specifically. I said Nadal would lose 1 of the 3 in 18-20 with good enough competition.

 

[jm1972]

He's only at 24 thanks to night matches with closed roof at AO and WLOL'22.

 

[The_Order]

USO 18 while weak still had to 2 top 10 opponents and Djokovic was playing at a clearly higher level than nadal in USO 17 IMO and had better stamina than him.
Put it this way, if I had to chose b/w fed AO 17, nadal USO 17, fed AO 18 and djoko USO 18, djoko USO 18 level including stamina/level for long haul is clearly better enough to be a differentiator.

You're cooked mate... but I'm going to bother to call you out on your lie here...

US2018 did NOT have two top 10 opponents... Only Delpo in the final was a top 10.

And clearly higher level? What a load of crap. Nadal lost only 1 more set than Djok on the way to the title and Nadal smashed Rublev and Delpo (despite losing a set to him)... not sure how much more lopsided the qf and sf matches needed to be... just your inability to analyse tennis levels...

 

[Angrybirdstar]

Djokovic fans should openly admit Fed is better than him or they are idiots.

Federer fans should admit that he has a bottom 4 drive BH &/+ 2nd return for an OE ATG, and that those skills are actually more relevant to non-Safin players than they think, or they are idiots :^)

This but not sarcastically.

does Djokovic have GOAT but not BOAT case?

Ah, another “agree with me or you are brain less” comment

referencing your sig, does NatF's comment above lead us into a sarcasm-ception?

Before AO22 final he said Med was gonna ROFLSTOMP Nadal in the final...

oh interesting! i went back to check and found this:

with nadal being considerably worse now than in any of their previous matches and Med having actually got the win in YEC 2020, Med gonna ROFLSTOMP Nadal man. Sorry, but that's gonna happen. Nadal's gonna be ROFLSTOMPed.

but i also found a GabeT like on this comment:

After their first encounter, every match they’ve played has basically been a coin flip. Med has no match-up issue with Nadal.

so it's hard to say if anybody here really comes out looking better as an Analyst TM

 

[The_Order]

oh interesting! i went back to check and found this:

Yep. It's been in my sig ever since I saw it

 

[Hitman]

Wait, the match thread got deleted? wtf...

Yeah, it got deleted for trolling and fighting. SMH.

 

[Hitman]

It is a shame that thread for SF majors get nuked

Often I have seen any thread where it is not favorable to Novak gets nuked. You cannot blame mods as they are usually soft to the fan base that is loud

How many times have you seen slam semi or final threads nuked though, regardless of who was winning the match?

It got deleted because too many troll posts and arguing. We lost a Wimbledon semi final match thread because people couldn't control the need to argue and troll. I don't care who won, the thread should have stayed, because it was part of history, and now we lost it.

 

[abmk]

Federer fans should admit that he has a bottom 4 drive BH &/+ 2nd return for an OE ATG, and that those skills are actually more relevant to non-Safin players than they think, or they are idiots :^)

sarcasm in response to sarcasm?

ATGs: Connors, Borg, Mac, Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Wilander, Sampras, Agassi, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic

fed's BH is better than Mac, Lendl, Becker, sampras.
so 8th among the 12.

2nd return is a bit harder to check wrt to older ATGs ...

oh interesting! i went back to check and found this:

Imagine med being so bad that he managed to choke horrendously from up 2-0 in sets and triple BP in the 3rd set with UEs/bad decision making.
proving me wrong that their gen was marginally better than rao-nishi-dim gen in slams. they weren't/aren't. Only better in Bo3.

in a whole ass 5-set match in AO 22 final, only one set from one player was at a good level (Med in first set). rest were all meh or below par.

 

[NatF]

does Djokovic have GOAT but not BOAT case?

He has both.

 

[objection_]

As AO 18 on that list, AO 20 also goes in. Weak draw before the final and one very good opponent (not excellent) in the final isn't enough. not much to chose b/w Cilic of AO 18 and Thiem of AO 20.

Chung had potential off the ground, but lack of serve and injuries did him in.
Berdych thrashed delpo in AO 18, had SPs vs fed in the 1st set yes, but form dipped in that match and was merely a decent opponent in that match overall. Actually AO 18 in general was berdych's last good slam performance.

USO 18 while weak still had to 2 top 10 opponents and Djokovic was playing at a clearly higher level than nadal in USO 17 IMO and had better stamina than him.
Put it this way, if I had to chose b/w fed AO 17, nadal USO 17, fed AO 18 and djoko USO 18, djoko USO 18 level including stamina/level for long haul is clearly better enough to be a differentiator.

nadal had pretty easy draws till the final in USO 10/13, but its irrelevant to this talk about vulturing as nadal was at his peak.

vulturing is only when level is not high enough (enough cracks to be seen in the game) AND competition not good.

RG 22 is debatable with djoko and FAA, but Nadal got off lucky with Zverev injury in the SF and Ruud was an absolute rollover in the final. But nadal was definitely beatable in 4R/SF. wasn't really great in the first half of the final either tbh.

I didn't say RG 20 specifically. I said Nadal would lose 1 of the 3 in 18-20 with good enough competition.

Fair enough with AO 18 v 20
IIRC Delpo was the only top 10 (3)... Nishi was seeded 21. Not too sure how we're gonna analyse stamina considering he didn't play any more than a routine 4 setter throughout the tourney.

Think Nadal was a bit hungover in RG 22 4R after partying... yeah he was beatable in the semi but those were totally abnormal, slow night conditions that nullify Nadal's game. Don't think it would go more than 4 sets anyways had it been a proper outdoor sunny SF as RG should be before they put up the roof (strongrule moment). Obviously thumping the backhand 2nd half of RG 22 final, clearly more dominant than 23 djoker was against similar level opponent.

Which of RG 18-20 do you think would be at the most risk of going out??? IMO it would be RG18, he struggled a bit against Diego at first and I think had blisters on his hand in the final, so maybe a more threatening opponent with greater rally tolerance could have stood a chance (RG 12-14 Djoko?)

 

[Terry Tibbs]

Because he made a career out of crushing bums
like Tsitsipas, Anderson, Berretinni, Kyrgios, Ruud etc. He preyed on extremely weak competition prior to Alcaraz and Sinner. Had Alcaraz and Sinner arrived 5 years earlier like they should have he would have far less slams.

His 2021 and 2022 Wimbledon titles were an absolute cake walk due to the worse standard of competition ever. Djokovic was able to easily win these titles with a very passive style of play waiting for errors. The 2 worst Wimbledons I can ever remember.

 

[Red Rick]

If old Djokovic could still win Slams without Alcaraz and Sinner around, then men's tennis is in a generational drought. The field is too weak, too predictable, and not evolving fast enough. Djokovic's dominance is as much a sign of his incredible longevity as it is a failure of the sport to produce worthy champions.

There's 2 guys that are beating him, i.e. there's 2 good players around.

 

[Red Rick]

His 2021 and 2022 Wimbledon titles were an absolute cake walk due to the worse standard of competition ever. Djokovic was able to easily win these titles with a very passive style of play waiting for errors. The 2 worst Wimbledons I can ever remember.

We should give him 3 because clearly he would have won 2020 as well if not for Wimbledon choosing the insurance pay out over tennis.

 

[Terry Tibbs]

We should give him 3 because clearly he would have won 2020 as well if not for Wimbledon choosing the insurance pay out over tennis.

Yes I doubt anyone would have challenged him. Safe to say Djokovic would have been on 26 slams now but for Covid and a lines judge at the US Open acting like she had been stabbed from a ball hitting her.

 

[Angrybirdstar]

sarcasm in response to sarcasm?

idiots part is sarcasm but i do think the point i made is not really acknowledged enough and is in fact a key fulcrum of level-based GOAT discussions between Fedole fans (while Nadal fans mostly just do hype moments and aura posting, or do obscurantist propaganda about the inherent importance of clay). i.e., does tennis as a sport/poly-era tennis/baselining fundamentally boil down more to/get conditioned more by, serve + FH or return + BH? (while granting that everyone relevant acknowledges the primacy of movement)

ATGs

i'd add Rosewall and Laver (even for just OE), Newcombe, Ashe, Nastase, Vilas, and Murray, with all but Newcombe going above Federer for both

fed's BH is better than Mac, Lendl, Becker, sampras.

definitely disagree with Lendl (better everywhere besides grass), and i'd say Becker's edges on grass and indoors are both present and more relevant than Federer's edge on clay (with outdoor hard being a tossup)

2nd return is a bit harder to check wrt to older ATGs ...

they just had to be above average and i think from what i've seen and the kinds of players they were, there is a very reasonable case that they were

in a whole ass 5-set match in AO 22 final, only one set from one player was at a good level (Med in first set). rest were all meh or below par.

i'd say more great by Medvedev, then good and meh, then below par then good, while Nadal was below par, then good (but choked) and good, then great then good. think Nadal choked more than Medvedev for the match to be that close, esp considering the matchup. but it's whateva, played out topic

 

[RS]

Federer fans should admit that he has a bottom 4 drive BH &/+ 2nd return for an OE ATG, and that those skills are actually more relevant to non-Safin players than they think, or they are idiots :^)

Federer fans not often die on a hill to defend his BH do they? FH yes we have seen multiple times.

 

[abmk]

idiots part is sarcasm but i do think the point i made is not really acknowledged enough and is in fact a key fulcrum of level-based GOAT discussions between Fedole fans (while Nadal fans mostly just do hype moments and aura posting, or do obscurantist propaganda about the inherent importance of clay). i.e., does tennis as a sport/poly-era tennis/baselining fundamentally boil down more to/get conditioned more by, serve + FH or return + BH? (while granting that everyone relevant acknowledges the primacy of movement)

definitely more factors than that.

i'd add Rosewall and Laver (even for just OE), Newcombe, Ashe, Nastase, Vilas, and Murray, with all but Newcombe going above Federer for both

definitely disagree with Lendl (better everywhere besides grass), and i'd say Becker's edges on grass and indoors are both present and more relevant than Federer's edge on clay (with outdoor hard being a tossup)

bh includes bh slice, passing shots and all other variety from the ground
lendl's is only better than fed's on clay.
becker vs fed on hard isn't a tossup. fed has a clear edge. fed's is better on grass also. becker couldn't even win a HC slam without running into trouble, FFS.

they just had to be above average and i think from what i've seen and the kinds of players they were, there is a very reasonable case that they were

definitely not. fed's 2nd serve return while not great was well above average. below par returning of nadal 2nd serve in some cases doesn't make fed's 2nd serve returning average. passiveness did slowly start creeping in fed's 2nd serve returning as years went on, but it wasn't the case in 03-07 atleast. may have to revist couple of 08/09 matches.

ask roddick, ask Murray whose 2nd serve federer took advantage of in USO 08, Wim 12 etc.
fed also reduced Isner to 45% 2nd serve points won in USO 07
was 52% in USO 15 for reference.
reduced scud to 44% 2nd serve points won in Wim 03 semi

etc. just some examples on top of my head

i'd say more great by Medvedev, then good and meh, then below par then good, while Nadal was below par, then good (but choked) and good, then great then good. think Nadal choked more than Medvedev for the match to be that close, esp considering the matchup. but it's whateva, played out topic

disagree.

med -> very good , meh, meh, below par, meh
nadal -> clearly below par, meh, meh, meh, meh

med choked clearly more in that match and its not even close. revisionist history about med-nadal matchup isn't going to change that.
med blew his chances in the 3rd set, couldn't take adv of nadal serving % in 1st half of 4th set, again nerves in the 5th set

fact is med had won USO 21. nadal was coming back from injury. should've lost to shapo, but barely escaped. Med was in clearly better form coming into the final beating tpas comfortably (even with the FAA match) and should've won.

assuming no hanky panky in the polling in the match thread, it ended at 65 Med, 35 Nadal in the final.... with most common being med in 4 sets

Thread 'Australian Open 2022 Final: Rafael Nadal vs Daniil Medvedev'

Jan 28, 2022

The final we were all hoping to get. Rematch of their USO F from 2019.

There is something at stake for both of these guys: if Med wins he becomes the first player to win his first 2 slams back to back in the Open Era, while Nadal will finally win the DCGS.

Something's gotta give on Sunday, that's for sure. This is now or never for Nadal. He's not gonna get a better chance than this.

Who's your pick?

• mike danny
• australian open 2022 medvedev nadal
• Replies: 6,640
• Forum: Pro Match Results and Discussion

• 

nadal was outlasted by tpas in AO 21 - the AO before this, don't forget. would've happened if shapo/med held their heads. granted credit to nadal for staying in the med match.

 

[RF-18]

I don't know if it's a troll i'm guessing you are just out after reaction but he, at age of 38 is only losing to Sinner basically, the #1 player in the world, and partly Alcaraz but he hasn't lost to Alcaraz since last year, prevailing the last 2 times against him. His only really bad loss for the past 3 years came against Popyrin, other than that it is either injuries or Sinner/Alcaraz stopping him, and he is 38.

If you want to add perspective in regards to Federer and Nadal, Federer lost to Anderson, Tsitsipas, Millman and Dimitrov at roundabout the same age in slams. Nadal lost to Zverev last year. And many other players. What are we doing here.

 

[RS]

I don't know if it's a troll i'm guessing you are just out after reaction but he, at age of 38 is only losing to Sinner basically, the #1 player in the world, and partly Alcaraz but he hasn't lost to Alcaraz since last year, prevailing the last 2 times against him. His only really bad loss for the past 3 years came against Popyrin, other than that it is either injuries or Sinner/Alcaraz stopping him, and he is 38.

If you want to add perspective in regards to Federer and Nadal, Federer lost to Anderson, Tsitsipas, Millman and Dimitrov at roundabout the same age in slams. Nadal lost to Zverev last year. And many other players. What are we doing here.

It mainly Fed fans pointing out the importance of age which they think was dismissed by Djokovic fans before Wim 2023.

 

[The_Order]

It mainly Fed fans pointing out the importance of age which they think was dismissed by Djokovic fans before Wim 2023.

But age not important when they want to pump up geriatric Agassi... no?

 

[RF-18]

It mainly Fed fans pointing out the importance of age which they think was dismissed by Djokovic fans before Wim 2023.

I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate

 

[RS]

I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate

Before Djokovic was losing to Raz and Sinner in slams which started in Wim 2023 Djokovic's fans didn't think age was important or it was just a excuse. Not saying that's fully true but that's how Fed fans perceived it which is probably why this thread was made now Djokovic is losing to younger players.

 

[Third Serve]

2022 Wimb wasn’t that bad tbf. He did return very well in that final against some legendary serving by Kyrgios. I guess the matches leading up to it were pretty spotty but I don’t think that Wimbledon is quite as egregious as 2019 or 2021.

 

[RS]

What absolute rubbish from the propagandist...

RG20 Nadal won without dropping a set and played a very high level in the final...

2006 Federer would have lost to him.

and as if RG18 and 19... he isn't losing to anyone either... just need to make up lies to suit the agenda...

RG22 he beat in form Djok who just won Rome without dropping a set and made the qf with dominance. FAA played the match of his life too... Zed turned up to play as well, Nadal had to battle crazy humid conditions and hit some incredible shots at his age to win the TB in the first set...

Fed otoh, vultured many slams before Djokodal arrived on the scene...

From 04AO - 07AO his draws were filled with pigeons that were happy to spread their cheeks for him... aside from a few matches here and there...

AO06 Fed's level was very average. Throwing names out like Haas, Davy and Baggy lmfao... that was a pure vulture slam... I can think of many opponents that would have beat him...

WIM05 filled with pigeons... Gonzo in the qf who was TRASH on grass... Hewitt and Roddick played well below their best.. Roddick was a shell of the player he was in the final of 2004...

US06 was another one... Blake shows up for 2 sets equals tough draw... rubbish...

US04 Fed struggled against 34 yr old Andre... if that was prime Nadal he's losing igaf how much whining you want to do... Hewett was a disgrace in the final...

AO07... Roddick bent over and spread em in the sf... Gonzo choked in his first slam final.

Then whines about Nadal US17 but nothing about Djok US18 which was practically the same level of draw...

But then says AO20 is a vulture... yeah right Thiem was playing some really good tennis in that event including the final... no way that's a vulture.

So yeah, the real vulture numbers are:

Djok: US18, W19, AO21, W21, W22, AO23, RG23, US23
Nadal: US17, US19, AO22
Federer: US04, W05, AO06, US06, AO07

Of course, everyone knows not to take you seriously anyway...

Interesting.

 

[Kralingen]

The way he played today? Barely running for anything in the third set? I could see Shelton beating him (if we just delete Sinner and Alcaraz from this same draw) and definitely Fritz in the final. Would probably have won Roland Garros, though, and last year’s Wimbledon (maybe Medvedev takes him out there?).

Obviously if Sinner and Alcaraz never existed then the tour would look completely different. Djokovic would definitely be one of the most consistent players at slams and would still be winning some, but it’s also clear his body is starting to hit a wall regardless of who he’s actually up against.

He mentally gave up today.

He wouldn’t have done so vs Fritz as we saw him (and Nadal) do in previous Slams like AO 21 and WB 22. Even while injured, he’d know he could beat such a slow-footed basic player.

However I think Kyrgios would have beaten him 3 years ago. His return sucks now

 

[abmk]

Fair enough with AO 18 v 20
IIRC Delpo was the only top 10 (3)... Nishi was seeded 21. Not too sure how we're gonna analyse stamina considering he didn't play any more than a routine 4 setter throughout the tourney.

Think Nadal was a bit hungover in RG 22 4R after partying... yeah he was beatable in the semi but those were totally abnormal, slow night conditions that nullify Nadal's game. Don't think it would go more than 4 sets anyways had it been a proper outdoor sunny SF as RG should be before they put up the roof (strongrule moment). Obviously thumping the backhand 2nd half of RG 22 final, clearly more dominant than 23 djoker was against similar level opponent.

Which of RG 18-20 do you think would be at the most risk of going out??? IMO it would be RG18, he struggled a bit against Diego at first and I think had blisters on his hand in the final, so maybe a more threatening opponent with greater rally tolerance could have stood a chance (RG 12-14 Djoko?)

you are right about USO 18. Maybe I mixed up top 10 and top 25 there. As nadal didn't play a single top 25 player in USO 17. djokovic faced 1 top tenner/2 top 25 players in general

I am talking about djoko's stamina in general in that period. djoko's 5-set record is pretty good from 30 onwards. nadal's suffered in comparision.

which one nadal would be at the most risk of going out? RG 18 as you said and RG 20 before the final.

 

[Boomski]

AO 24 - crushed by Sinner
RG 24 - walkover
Wim 24 - crushed by Alcaraz
USO 24 - lost easily to Popyrin in 4 sets (was down 2 sets to love)
AO 25 - retired after 1 set
RG 25 - beaten handily by Sinner
Wim 25 - crushed by Sinner

(of course Djokovic won USO 23 also)

Goes to show how pathetic the 89-99 born generations were and of course djoko's decline.

No Djokovic fan would admit how utterly pathetic the 1990s born generation was. It's no cooincidence Djokovic won HALF of his Slam titles after turning 30, totally unprecedented and we all know why

 

[Djokovic2011]

2022 Wimb wasn’t that bad tbf. He did return very well in that final against some legendary serving by Kyrgios. I guess the matches leading up to it were pretty spotty but I don’t think that Wimbledon is quite as egregious as 2019 or 2021.

IIRC he returned practically every second serve of Kyrgios and barely made any errors off the ground. A very solid performance overall.

 

[abmk]

2022 Wimb wasn’t that bad tbf. He did return very well in that final against some legendary serving by Kyrgios. I guess the matches leading up to it were pretty spotty but I don’t think that Wimbledon is quite as egregious as 2019 or 2021.

djoko was down 2 sets to love vs Sinner in the QF and erroring vs Borrie in the SF. we can't only consider the final, right?

 

[TMF]

But age not important when they want to pump up geriatric Agassi... no?

While Agassi at 32 was still playing great do to his exceptional groundstrokes, he never won a slam after RF won his first slam at 2003 Wimbledon. It's not that a 35 years old Agassi winning 8-10 slams in RF era, unlike the pathetic 90s born players failed miserably in CIE(only until the 2000s born Sinneraz arrive). LOL

 

[RF-18]

Before Djokovic was losing to Raz and Sinner in slams which started in Wim 2023 Djokovic's fans didn't think age was important or it was just a excuse. Not saying that's fully true but that's how Fed fans perceived it which is probably why this thread was made now Djokovic is losing to younger players.

this is a whole different ball game. We are talking about the difference of several generations between Djokovic and Sinneraz. Djokovic is towards the end of his career while these guys just got started, and he is trading blows against them while struggling to keep his body fit despite only really playing slams these days. He has taken plenty of scalps against them in particular against Alcaraz wich is insane already.

Djokovic can't keep up forever, that is the reality. He will lose more and needs the stars to align for him in every aspect physically on that particular day he plays against them if he wants to win another slam.

I know many people are just trying to take enjoyment of what is happening lately and likes to poke at Djokovic and his fans but they need to check their backyards first cause people are shooting themselves in the foot. OP with his logic and attempt at revealing something is screwed. All the way up until now Djokovic has been a mainstay at the top of the game battling against the absolute best. The last 3 years in slams he only lost to Popyrin outside of Alcaraz and Sinner. He is consistently great on any surface and it takes the world #1 to beat him. If some wanna make the point that it reveals something to lose consistently to the world #1 and partly world #2 who are born in 2001 and 2003 then I wonder what it reveals for other past greats who consistently lost to much lesser players in slams towards the end of their career. With the logic of OP and others Djokovic in the past months should have lost to De Minaur, Zverev etc to "save face". This is the logic in full force here and they don't realize it. Keep coming with these threads, but you are making a mockery of yourself cause no one was consistently as good as Djokovic is.

 

[mike danny]

He was at good level when he beat Meddy and Thiem for his AO ,they were no worse than Fed’s many AO and USO rivals

Yes, a Medvedev who got crushed by an injured old Djokovic wasn’t worse than Fed’s opponents…sure…

 

[Mustard]

RG 22 is debatable with djoko and FAA, but Nadal got off lucky with Zverev injury in the SF

Do you really think that Nadal would have cracked first? Over 3 hours of play, for Nadal to lead 7-6, 6-6.

 

[The_Order]

While Agassi at 32 was still playing great do to his exceptional groundstrokes, he never won a slam after RF won his first slam at 2003 Wimbledon. It's not that a 35 years old Agassi winning 8-10 slams in RF era, unlike the pathetic 90s born players failed miserably in CIE(only until the 2000s born Sinneraz arrive). LOL

You can't make a case one way and then not the other...

Agassi was 11 years older than Federer and lost in 5 sets at US04...

Federer 6 years older than Djok and lost at WIM19...

Djok is 16 years older than Alcaraz and lost at WIM23...

So either age is a very important factor or it isn't... choose.

As for Agassi not going on a tear at 35, of course not, we all know the post covid era is the most pathetic era in tennis... no argument from me there.

 

[weakera]

I don't know if it's a troll i'm guessing you are just out after reaction but he, at age of 38 is only losing to Sinner basically, the #1 player in the world, and partly Alcaraz but he hasn't lost to Alcaraz since last year, prevailing the last 2 times against him. His only really bad loss for the past 3 years came against Popyrin, other than that it is either injuries or Sinner/Alcaraz stopping him, and he is 38.

If you want to add perspective in regards to Federer and Nadal, Federer lost to Anderson, Tsitsipas, Millman and Dimitrov at roundabout the same age in slams. Nadal lost to Zverev last year. And many other players. What are we doing here.

They were hurt though. Djokovic is fit but getting dogwalked.

 

[The_Order]

Do you really think that Nadal would have cracked first? Over 3 hours of play, for Nadal to lead 7-6, 6-6.

He's lost the plot. Nadal got lucky against Zed... hahahahahahaha

We all know that one way or another, Nadal was always gonna end up winning that match.

The real luck is Soderling causing the upset at RG09, Federer fh v Haas lands right on the line... otherwise no cgs for Rogi...

 

[Fed_Nole]

It is the same slam race . There are new runners in the game . They are 22 and 23 and have another 15 years to play. They are better than Novak at the same age

Are you sure they have the same longevity as Fed/Nole? It’s too early to tell

 

[StrongRule]

2022 Wimb wasn’t that bad tbf. He did return very well in that final against some legendary serving by Kyrgios. I guess the matches leading up to it were pretty spotty but I don’t think that Wimbledon is quite as egregious as 2019 or 2021.

The fact that Nadal faced the very same Kyrgios in the second round of 2019 tells the whole story. This is some hell of an opponent for a second round, but not for a final.

 

[RS]

you sound like an idiot right now to be fair

Fair enough lol

 

[RF-18]

They were hurt though. Djokovic is fit but getting dogwalked.

Djokovic was severely compromised yesterday, but then I didn't even mention it in that post to use it as an excuse, you brought it up. Nadal would have withdrawn yesterday for sure if he even had 20% of the injury Djokovic had, and then you guys could discuss how Nadal could win.

 

[ND-13]

Are you sure they have the same longevity as Fed/Nole? It’s too early to tell

With just being a 2 runner race they will get there faster. They both are in the hunt already. They will have a positive h2h over Novak and if they get the CYGS, then media will anoint them as the greatest ever

 

[weakera]

Djokovic was severely compromised yesterday, but then I didn't even mention it in that post to use it as an excuse, you brought it up. Nadal would have withdrawn yesterday for sure if he even had 20% of the injury Djokovic had, and then you guys could discuss how Nadal could win.

Ah yes, I forgot. Djokovic is still undefeated when healthy.

 

[RF-18]

Ah yes, I forgot. Djokovic is still undefeated when healthy.

Nope. He was healthy and fit at FO.

 

[ND-13]

Nope. He was healthy and fit at FO.

Djokovic was not winning regardless of injury based on their respective levels here

 

[weakera]

Nope. He was healthy and fit at FO.

I see, healthy and fit = straight set loss, severely compromised = straight set loss.

I wonder what excitement awaits us at USO?

Either way, Djokovic has been fit as a fiddle for years, and yet, dogwalked at slams. Nadal on the other hand went into semi retirement immediately following Wimbledon 2022 and was never the same. Djokovic is the same - just not good enough.

 

[RF-18]

I see, healthy and fit = straight set loss, severely compromised = straight set loss.

I wonder what excitement awaits us at USO?

Either way, Djokovic has been fit as a fiddle for years, and yet, dogwalked at slams. Nadal on the other hand went into semi retirement immediately following Wimbledon 2022 and was never the same. Djokovic is the same - just not good enough.

He has been anything but fit as a fiddle. He popped his knee at FO last year and had to retire as well wich also followed him to Wimbledon where he also was compromised. Why are you even typing and putting Nadal in a conversation with Djokovic when it comes to this. You are just bringing unnecessary heat to Nadal for no reason who dodged matches his whole career to save face and calculated his chances, if there was minor chances to win, the guy was out so what are you on about just randomly adding Nadal to this for the sake of it lmao.

 

[weakera]

He has been anything but fit as a fiddle. He popped his knee at FO last year and had to retire as well wich also followed him to Wimbledon where he also was compromised. Why are you even typing and putting Nadal in a conversation with Djokovic when it comes to this. You are just bringing unnecessary heat to Nadal for no reason who dodged matches his whole career to save face and calculated his chances, if there was minor chances to win, the guy was out so what are you on about just randomly adding Nadal to this for the sake of it lmao.

Nadal and Federer both broke down and couldn't compete any longer because their bodies didn't allow it. Djokovic is fit but not good enough. That is the difference and everyone sees it, including you.

 

[RF-18]

Nadal and Federer both broke down and couldn't compete any longer because their bodies didn't allow it. Djokovic is fit but not good enough. That is the difference and everyone sees it, including you.

Nope. I don't see it. I see someone who is still good enough to compete with guys in their early 20s, but just isn't fit enough. I definitely don't see Nadal to be good enough wich we saw when he was fit and it was time to play different surfaces. Federer I can see if he was fit except clay.