"the legs are the suspension"

1

10sbeast888

Legend
had a hit with an academy member, who also takes lesson from a former tour pro, who uses this phrase - "the legs are the suspension".

This is in line with the counter rotation theory... not ground-upping.

come on guyz.... feelz like I am talk with a bunch of people who are faking credentials.

anyone I have talked to, with VERIFIABLE credits, are on the counter rotation theory.
 
I saw Fognini destroy Nadal at USO. He mostly hit standing straight. I changed my min on this whole kinetic chain theory after that. It is a net negative to most rec players.
 
Not sure how you say “ground up” is not majority or an idea for non credentialed coaches because by my count it is the majority view of credentialed coaches. You keep beating this horse and I have noticed a few recent videos raising the issue. It appears to be an attempt to get views and attention. I am ok with a tip of using the shoulders to initiate rotation but that’s not what actually happens. It’s actually awkward and inefficient to not have the hips initiate rotation and to clear first. Otherwise the hips block rotation. It’s the same in other sports where you swing or throw something and that is universally accepted
 
Leg drive is simply fundamental. There is simply no discussion. It is what provides / initiates explosiveness in rotation, forward movement and / or vertical lift. There simply is no discussion. Anyone claiming otherwise only accomplishes exposing their sheer ignorance.
 
ProStaffFanatic said:
Leg drive is simply fundamental. There is simply no discussion. It is what provides / initiates explosiveness in rotation, forward movement and / or vertical lift. There simply is no discussion. Anyone claiming otherwise only accomplishes exposing their sheer ignorance.
Click to expand...

this coach actually played on the tour and is more high level than you.

to claim something is no discussion is just self admission of brain freeze.

it works as a suspension. not as an engine.
 
TennisCJC said:
Not sure how you say “ground up” is not majority or an idea for non credentialed coaches because by my count it is the majority view of credentialed coaches. You keep beating this horse and I have noticed a few recent videos raising the issue. It appears to be an attempt to get views and attention. I am ok with a tip of using the shoulders to initiate rotation but that’s not what actually happens. It’s actually awkward and inefficient to not have the hips initiate rotation and to clear first. Otherwise the hips block rotation. It’s the same in other sports where you swing or throw something and that is universally accepted
Click to expand...

I share the same understanding.

I guess for Beast and OTM, they keep their hip fixed at an angle and just swing their shoulder/arm. Their hip does not turn toward the net at all. That is their "counter rotation theory". Am I right, Mr. Beast?


10sbeast888 said:
had a hit with an academy member, who also takes lesson from a former tour pro, who uses this phrase - "the legs are the suspension".

This is in line with the counter rotation theory... not ground-upping.

come on guyz.... feelz like I am talk with a bunch of people who are faking credentials.

anyone I have talked to, with VERIFIABLE credits, are on the counter rotation theory.
Click to expand...
OTMPut said:
I saw Fognini destroy Nadal at USO. He mostly hit standing straight. I changed my min on this whole kinetic chain theory after that. It is a net negative to most rec players.
Click to expand...
 
10sbeast888 said:
this coach actually played on the tour and is more high level than you.

to claim something is no discussion is just self admission of brain freeze.

it works as a suspension. not as an engine.
Click to expand...
Go ask him what he actually means by it. Go ask him about leg drive and "pushing off" to get that explosiveness. Go ask him what "leg load" is all about.
 
ProStaffFanatic said:
Go ask him what he actually means by it. Go ask him about leg drive and "pushing off" to get that explosiveness. Go ask him what "leg load" is all about.
Click to expand...

already discussed in detail - the core fires the shot. the legs provides the support for the counter rotation.

he also said the same thing I been saying... waiting for the power from the ground to transfer to the racket head is way too long, not practical in tennis.

come on guyz... this is so obvious if you actually play tennis.
 
ProStaffFanatic said:
Go ask him what he actually means by it. Go ask him about leg drive and "pushing off" to get that explosiveness. Go ask him what "leg load" is all about.
Click to expand...
10sbeast888 said:
already discussed in detail - the core fires the shot. the legs provides the support for the counter rotation.

he also said the same thing I been saying... waiting for the power from the ground to transfer to the racket head is way too long, not practical in tennis.

come on guyz... this is so obvious if you actually play tennis.
Click to expand...

This is the shyt that keeps me away from this discussion. It's not that KC, leg load, leg pushing is a difficult topic.

It is that many people understand them differently, have different meaning due to who knows what reasons (arrogant, pride, intelligence....what?)

In a lot of cases it takes very little time for people to argue "is hotdog a sandwich or not?"

How is this an interesting argument that people can drag on for weeks?
 
user92626 said:
This is the shyt that keeps me away from this discussion. It's not that KC, leg load, leg pushing is a difficult topic.

It is that many people understand them differently, have different meaning due to who knows what reasons (arrogant, pride, intelligence....what?)

In a lot of cases it takes very little time for people to argue "is hotdog a sandwich or not?"

How is this an interesting argument that people can drag on for weeks?
Click to expand...

it matters because it ruins your game if you don't do this properly!

'net negative' is exactly what happens when most recs try to do the leg push to hit a shot.
 
10sbeast888 said:
already discussed in detail - the core fires the shot. the legs provides the support for the counter rotation.

he also said the same thing I been saying... waiting for the power from the ground to transfer to the racket head is way too long, not practical in tennis.

come on guyz... this is so obvious if you actually play tennis.
Click to expand...

Or from the guy you like so much


Or more in depth


You're welcome.
Even though you'll just likely ignore everything and just argue to arm the ball again as if it is the correct way to do it.
 
:-D Another one.

Even Djokovic in his "lesson" int the Time interview emphasizes the use of legs. He was wrong about the wrist and the legs on the serve though.
 
ppma said:
:-D Another one.

Even Djokovic in his "lesson" int the Time interview emphasizes the use of legs. He was wrong about the wrist and the legs on the serve though.
Click to expand...

laugh all you want. I am not expecting much from someone who has been stagnant since decades ago.. in your own admission.
 
user92626 said:
I share the same understanding.

I guess for Beast and OTM, they keep their hip fixed at an angle and just swing their shoulder/arm. Their hip does not turn toward the net at all. That is their "counter rotation theory". Am I right, Mr. Beast?
Click to expand...
what i meant was that pushing off leg to initiate KC is unnecessary. hips of course move as much as it helps with quality contact.
contact is more important.
we have powerful, light racquets now and strokes can be a lot more efficient.
 
ProStaffFanatic said:
Leg drive is simply fundamental. There is simply no discussion. It is what provides / initiates explosiveness in rotation, forward movement and / or vertical lift. There simply is no discussion. Anyone claiming otherwise only accomplishes exposing their sheer ignorance.
Click to expand...
Look at the forehand of this multiple major winner. I saw 0 leg drive. I saw clean, efficient striking without any of this KC stuff. How many rec players can play at 10% of her level at 54 years of age?

 
OTMPut said:
what i meant was that pushing off leg to initiate KC is unnecessary. hips of course move as much as it helps with quality contact.
contact is more important.
we have powerful, light racquets now and strokes can be a lot more efficient.
Click to expand...
Watch this clip and tell me if Sinner anchors his foot or not (ie his foot pressing against the ground) in the last two FHs?

 
OTMPut said:
what i meant was that pushing off leg to initiate KC is unnecessary. hips of course move as much as it helps with quality contact.
contact is more important.
we have powerful, light racquets now and strokes can be a lot more efficient.
Click to expand...

another point:

how exactly do you move your hips without employing your feet to some degree? Can you even move your hips without feet?


btw: (y) for actually discussing the points. As much as I 'm ok with Beast, he doesn't seem to know how to discuss, converse. His 10,000 poasts add little or nothing, go nowhere,eg poast #12. :rolleyes::-D

It's amazing how @ProStaffFanatic @SystemicAnomaly and other guys can still talk/discuss/argue with Beast for months... LOL
 
10sbeast888 said:
this coach actually played on the tour and is more high level than you.

to claim something is no discussion is just self admission of brain freeze.

it works as a suspension. not as an engine.
Click to expand...
Your tour player is in the minority. Majority of high level players including tour level don’t agree with you. You are pushing the view of a small minority at best. Legs and lower body are key. As for your suspension theory, it is voided by the fact that almost all pros lift with legs. You can literally step through frame by frame and watch the head go up as they swing forward on the serve and topspin groundstrokes.
 
10sbeast888 said:
already discussed in detail - the core fires the shot. the legs provides the support for the counter rotation.

he also said the same thing I been saying... waiting for the power from the ground to transfer to the racket head is way too long, not practical in tennis.
Click to expand...
You're avoiding Prostaff's question. PSF said, go ask the high level coach what he meant by the suspension cue. (It likely isn't going to be what you think.)

Passing on third hand cue stuff (I talked to my friend who talked to a coach, and I say my friend says the coach says..) is dicey.
 
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OTMPut said:
I saw Fognini destroy Nadal at USO. He mostly hit standing straight. I changed my min on this whole kinetic chain theory after that. It is a net negative to most rec players.
Click to expand...
Watch Fabio below. First forehand and both feet drive up off the ground. 2nd forehand you see his head lift. He doesn’t have wings so it’s leg lift that drives him up. Also notice his hips are open more than his chest as he swings forward. That’s a separation angle and key to all good forehands. His hips open creating a stretch across his chest. That stretch is then released as the shoulders catch up to the hips. Especially see this in 1st forehand.
 
10sbeast888 said:
so a suspension doesn't move at all?
Click to expand...
Depends wat you mean by that. I've never heard or seen any coaches use that term. If you are simply using it synonymously to leg drive / leg load etc, fine. But it seems you aren't since you seem to constantly argue for something else, whatever it is.
 
I just want video of Beast hitting forehands while sitting on an office chair. According to his physics (or it it chemistry?), this should be possible by using your pec!!!
 
jm1972 said:
I just want video of Beast hitting forehands while sitting on an office chair. According to his physics (or it it chemistry?), this should be possible by using your pec!!!
Click to expand...
You could do it (and hit pretty hard) if you keep your elbow "fixed" and pull your forearm / hand up.
 
jm1972 said:
I just want video of Beast hitting forehands while sitting on an office chair. According to his physics (or it it chemistry?), this should be possible by using your pec!!!
Click to expand...
That is all good, but do you know how to traverse the video frame by frame?
 
mad dog1 said:
Do not fear for Chas is here!
Click to expand...
@Chas Tennis

Board member Chas, with a knowing grin,
Says, "Study the details tucked within."
On YouTube, don't rush past the play,
Step through each moment the careful way.

Tap the comma key to travel back,
Review a footstep or racket's track.
Hit the period key to move ahead,
One frame at a time, just as Chas said.

Forth and back through every swing,
The hidden secrets soon take wing.
With patience and practice, your insights accrue,
Thanks to Chas and his frame-by-frame view.
 
TennisCJC said:
Watch Fabio below. First forehand and both feet drive up off the ground. 2nd forehand you see his head lift. He doesn’t have wings so it’s leg lift that drives him up. Also notice his hips are open more than his chest as he swings forward. That’s a separation angle and key to all good forehands. His hips open creating a stretch across his chest. That stretch is then released as the shoulders catch up to the hips. Especially see this in 1st forehand.
Click to expand...
I was going to post someting similar but then I remembered that it would have meant to put more effort that these poasters put in creating this stoopid threads and posts spreading misinformation.
 
sureshs said:
@Chas Tennis

Board member Chas, with a knowing grin,
Says, "Study the details tucked within."
On YouTube, don't rush past the play,
Step through each moment the careful way.

Tap the comma key to travel back,
Review a footstep or racket's track.
Hit the period key to move ahead,
One frame at a time, just as Chas said.

Forth and back through every swing,
The hidden secrets soon take wing.
With patience and practice, your insights accrue,
Thanks to Chas and his frame-by-frame view.
Click to expand...
There's a poetry writing AI ?

why am i so naive! there's AI to make music and movies with very good quality.
 
sureshs said:
@Chas Tennis

Board member Chas, with a knowing grin,
Says, "Study the details tucked within."
On YouTube, don't rush past the play,
Step through each moment the careful way.

Tap the comma key to travel back,
Review a footstep or racket's track.
Hit the period key to move ahead,
One frame at a time, just as Chas said.

Forth and back through every swing,
The hidden secrets soon take wing.
With patience and practice, your insights accrue,
Thanks to Chas and his frame-by-frame view.
Click to expand...
Yo man, let's get out of here
Word to your mother
 
10sbeast888 said:
it matters because it ruins your game if you don't do this properly!

'net negative' is exactly what happens when most recs try to do the leg push to hit a shot.
Click to expand...
I think timing of the leg push and rotation is also critical, since most players wait for that optimum moment to actually start the push and rotation, and prorate snap, and that depends on just where your toss has put the ball. Generally I find tossing higher gives me just that little extra time do all that once the ball has started its decline. Some players, and even pros, occasionally or always start push off and rotation when the toss is rising to throw off the opponent and of course kick serves are a slightly different beast themselves hitting more up and away, though for me that’s still a work in progress.
 
For the amount of people pounding the table and screaming KC. why is there nobody saying he’s done the whoosh test and KC is louder.

Next week I will explain everything. The logic is actually quite simple.
 
Rosstour said:
If any of us posted a video with that amount of leg loading you would eat them alive sir
Click to expand...
Nope. Again, it's some light hitting. Second part is also against a volleyer so everything is shortened and geared towards redirecting pace.

Look here for a better view for example. Tell me again she doesn't use leg loading.. Look at the end specifically where they slow mo loop her take back and swing. See how she moves from down to up. Classic leg load and release

 
10sbeast888 said:
For the amount of people pounding the table and screaming KC. why is there nobody saying he’s done the whoosh test and KC is louder.

Next week I will explain everything. The logic is actually quite simple.
Click to expand...
I don't care about any "wooshes" in shadow swings. I play tennis with an actual ball where you need to deal with that impact.

Here's an experiment for you...
Stand perfectly still and arm a ball with your "woosh".
Now send over a ball with the same "whoosh" while also leg loading and exploding up and forward.

Which one produces the bigger stroke?
 
ProStaffFanatic said:
I don't care about any "wooshes" in shadow swings. I play tennis with an actual ball where you need to deal with that impact.

Here's an experiment for you...
Stand perfectly still and arm a ball with your "woosh".
Now send over a ball with the same "whoosh" while also leg loading and exploding up and forward.

Which one produces the bigger stroke?
Click to expand...

your gonna take the attention span gold medal from ppma?

already told you - arming is louder.

and couple of other guys already tried. same results.
 
aw, please , not dumping on Meike.. Because of her videos since 2020, I finally got out of my decades long rut of 1.5-2.0 bad habits and unstable fundamentals. Her fh videos helped me start using my back leg to initiate the overall 'KC' stroke. yes, she was a top 1hbh wta player in the 90's. Also asst. coach of women's university teams. Her numerous helpful drills and workout videos are distilled from the real tour coaching and physio prep. Her videos are often practically like 'free lessons' from a coach on yt.

My 2c thought on the KC from 'GWF' is that it's often a necessary fundamental. Here's a nice video analysis of Rybakina's fh, where the guy clearly shows and 'outlines', and her fh prep looks so 'natural' and subtle. There are probably variations as well, whether a scary looking big knee-bend leg push, or just 'taking a stroll step' like walking, where the GWF is quickly translated linearly into the KC from it's start from the foot and ground like taking a step (like Rybakina). yes, some preliminary steps getting into position before the kc as PSF mentioned.

 
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