The Lurker

[Meles]

Lurkerpas may be upon us. He battled Thiem and Medvedev quite well recently and of course has single handily in one match cast a great shadow over Djoko's GOAT aspirations. Just how good has Tsitsipas been over the last few weeks? Is he good enough to sneak a win in Paris or even WTF? (Has beaten all of the Big 3 on their favorite surfaces) I also remind that Goatsipas turns on a higher level a lot of the time when the chips are down; fielded his best tennis til that date coming back in the Milan final last year against a white hot De Minaur, a precursor to his upset of Federer at Australian Open. Perhaps not the air tight game of Medvedev, but an intellect to match.

Stats for Beijing/Shanghai:
total points won 51.1%
serve points won 69.3%
return points won 33.2% (simply not good enough)

Delving into the matches Tsitsipas has had it rough to say the least in his last 7 matches starting with Isner (beat Zverev Laver Cup) and the players in bold are pure Kryptonite for him (Tsits had not beaten them before):

41 / 2019 Shanghai Masters
SF Hard Daniil Medvedev Stefanos Tsitsipas 7-6(5) 7-5 H2H (0-5)
QF Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Novak Djokovic 3-6 7-5 6-3 H2H
R16 Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Hubert Hurkacz 7-5 3-6 7-6(5) H2H (0-1)
R32 Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Felix Auger Aliassime 7-6(3) 7-6(3) H2H (was 0-5 including juniors)
40 / 2019 Beijing
F Hard Dominic Thiem Stefanos Tsitsipas 3-6 6-4 6-1 H2H
SF Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Alexander Zverev 7-6(6) 6-4 H2H
QF Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas John Isner 7-6(3) 6-3 H2H
R16 Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Nikoloz Basilashvili 4-6 6-3 6-2 H2H
R32 Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Dusan Lajovic 4-6 6-3 6-4 H2H

So despite some overall quite average stats, Tsitsipas still a definite Lurker with the capability of beating anyone at Paris or WTF including Medvedev, perhaps the one with the best chance even.

 

[OhYes]

Now I won't be getting likes That is cute cat though

 

[ibbi]

Anyway...

I think the way Tsitsipas has dug himself out of his post-Roland Garros funk in this fall swing has been impressive, and commendable, but I'm still not sure he's all the way back. Watching the final in Beijing and the match with Medvedev just now he really seems to start struggling when his opponent starts giving him something to think about.

We've all been bemoaning for so long how nobody comes to net anymore, and he's sort of taken that criticism and gone to the other extreme with it. He needs to be way smarter with his approaches. Still, he has racked up a pretty impressive list of scalps these last couple of weeks, so it's a good start.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

and of course has single handily in one match cast a great shadow over Djoko's GOAT aspirations.

So one QF in a M1000 in Shamghai decided whether Novak is GOAT or not?

Fassssssccccinating theory...

I know you're referring to Federer's no 1 record. No need to explain yourself...

 

[Meles]

Anyway...

I think the way Tsitsipas has dug himself out of his post-Roland Garros funk in this fall swing has been impressive, and commendable, but I'm still not sure he's all the way back. Watching the final in Beijing and the match with Medvedev just now he really seems to start struggling when his opponent starts giving him something to think about.

We've all been bemoaning for so long how nobody comes to net anymore, and he's sort of taken that criticism and gone to the other extreme with it. He needs to be way smarter with his approaches. Still, he has racked up a pretty impressive list of scalps these last couple of weeks, so it's a good start.

He had Medly love 40 late in the first set and it blew his mind a little not breaking. Once he lost the first set he made the mistake of playing more aggressively. He also gave up a working tactic with Thiem a bit in their final in the 2nd set. This time it was Tsits saving from 0-40 with a lot of 2nd serve S&V much to Thiem's chagrin. Tsits stuck with it into the 3rd and Thiem was able to blow him up at the net. Again probably should have stuck with plan A and just gone with a surprise S&V here and there.

Tsits is quite smart and I'm sure he's learned from his mistakes in both of these matches. What he did to Djokovic was sheer brilliance, patiently savaging with dtl backhands when the shot was right. His game was in the trash can last Fall and then rolled into Milan fighting and then started really clobbering the ball when pushed in the Final(De Minaur was crushing forehands right and left). I believe the need in that match gave birth to the aggressive game plan that won his match against Federer at Auz Open where he narrowly came to net more than Fed.

By the time clay season rolled around Tsitsipas rather fancied the aggressive net play far too much and did not change back to his great grinding gear on clay til later in the clay season. He's got a lot more different options in his game, but I think right now what he did with Djokovic is his best style, patiently grinding until he's got a near certain opportunity. Tsits when pushed can still grind and pick up the pace on shots so he's not put on the defensive too much. Also he may have a touch of Sampras in him that his serve game is good enough to bot a bit, so he just has to get hot for the break. His return stats are quite depressing against Djokovic and yet he broke him once in each of their last two sets.

We have to remember, Sneakipas just turned 21; he's liable to have some sudden jumps in level and we may just have one coming on for him to keep up with Medverev. Its making for a very interesting end of the year.

 

[Meles]

So one QF in a M1000 in Shamghai decided whether Novak is GOAT or not?

Fassssssccccinating theory...

I know you're referring to Federer's no 1 record. No need to explain yourself...

Actually lets review the score card:
41/2019 QF Shanghai Masters Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Novak Djokovic 3-6 7-5 6-3
19/2019 F Madrid Masters Clay Novak Djokovic Stefanos Tsitsipas 6-3 6-4 right after victory over Nadal
32/2018 R16 Canadian Masters Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Novak Djokovic 6-3 6-7(5) 6-3

For sure Novak got caught with his drawers down at the Canadian Masters, but this was in between winning three major events around this and of course Tsitsipas a far, far better player now in 2019. The lone Djokovic victory was right after Tsitsipas beat Nadal on clay and won Estoril just the week before. Add to this that Novak might find a higher level in the coming years, but Tsitsipas is extremely likely to go up a few more significant notches with his game. Advantage Tsitsipas.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Actually lets review the score card:
41/2019 QF Shanghai Masters Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Novak Djokovic 3-6 7-5 6-3
19/2019 F Madrid Masters Clay Novak Djokovic Stefanos Tsitsipas 6-3 6-4 right after victory over Nadal
32/2018 R16 Canadian Masters Hard Stefanos Tsitsipas Novak Djokovic 6-3 6-7(5) 6-3

For sure Novak got caught with his drawers down at the Canadian Masters, but this was in between winning three major events around this and of course Tsitsipas a far, far better player now in 2019. The lone Djokovic victory was right after Tsitsipas beat Nadal on clay and won Estoril just the week before. Add to this that Novak might find a higher level in the coming years, but Tsitsipas is extremely likely to go up a few more significant notches with his game. Advantage Tsitsipas.

So Tsestsefly's 2-1 H2H means Novak isn't GOAT?

Another fassssccccccccinating theory.

Got any more?

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

He won his first ATP title less than a year ago.
Let’s remember that. He is doing great!

 

[DSH]

Federer 2002 or Tsitsipas 2019?

 

[Meles]

Federer 2002 or Tsitsipas 2019?

Wow. Not bad at all. Deserves thread..... working on it.

 

[DSH]

Wow. Not bad at all. Deserves thread..... working on it.

You are the Chosen One!

 

[Meles]

You are the Chosen One!

They are almost exactly same birth day and seemingly similar play style.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/federer-2002-vs-tsitsipas-2019.655802/#post-13824279

(link for those interested)

 

[Bender]

I thought this thread would be about this lurker:

My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.

 

[Meles]

I thought this thread would be about this lurker:

My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.