The match up that is being overlooked. Thiem vs Djokovic

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Interesting though, Djokovic at the Australian Open and Nadal at the French were the only ones who stopped him. Your two stated exceptions. On grass he is utterly hopeless, so forget Wimbledon for him. Absolutely nothing should be expected of him there. Wawrinka was also fairly hopeless on grass, although still better than Thiem. He lost at the U.S Open in an epic he could have easily won vs Nadal in 2018. And made a great run at the WTF last year, just falling short in the end. So actually by your stated logic the only big event he underperformed for a whole 2 years now was the U.S Open last year.

Also with Djokovic at the Australian Open and Nadal at the French being exceptions, that already still would prevent him winning slams. To win the French you need to beat Nadal, to win the Australian you almost always need to beat Djokovic. Plain and simple. He can't win Wimbledon obviously. U.S Open is debateable, but his chances at the first two slams are far more.
Losing to mugs is also underperforming, isn't it?
 

SonnyT

Semi-Pro
At Wimbledon, Nadal was stopped 5 times by either Federer or Djokovic. Thiem probably will face much less stiff competition through his career.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
It does not automatically work that way. There are tons of great players who never figured out a major surface- be it clay or grass. And of course Thiem is not even in the great player category. And Thiem is no Nadal either, not even close. Hence why at his peak he can't score big wins over 100 year old Nadal on clay.
What a stupid post! He's beaten Nadal 5-6 times now including at AO this year.
And I also know how everyone was laughing their butts off when Nadal said he wanted to win Wimbledon back when he was a teenager and got ridiculed. About a year later he went and made the Wimbledon final and pushed Federer pretty hard.
The "experts" didn't have a damn clue what they were talking about. Same experts who said Andy Murray was a joke clay courter and he went and made the RG final, several other deep runs at RG and made numerous clay Masters finals and even winning 2 clay titles against Nadal and Djokovic.
 
What a stupid post! He's beaten Nadal 5-6 times now including at AO this year.
And I also know how everyone was laughing their butts off when Nadal said he wanted to win Wimbledon back when he was a teenager and got ridiculed. About a year later he went and made the Wimbledon final and pushed Federer pretty hard.
The "experts" didn't have a damn clue what they were talking about. Same experts who said Andy Murray was a joke clay courter and he went and made the RG final, several other deep runs at RG and made numerous clay Masters finals and even winning 2 clay titles against Nadal and Djokovic.
Thiem may never win the French for crying out loud. So LMFAO talking about him winning Wimbledon where he can't even win matches most of the time. And I never laughed at Nadal winning Wimbledon, I predicted when people like YOU (stupid people like you were the only ones ever saying it, not knowledgable fans like me) that Nadal would win Wimbledon atleast once, and more likely 2 or 3 times, and make a minimum of 3 finals there. Which lo and behold I was right on, like I am pretty much always right. And you were most likely totally wrong on, like you are pretty much always wrong I imagine; just like your absurd talk of Thiem winning Wimbledon will end up an epic fail when he never makes it past the round of 16 there. You are too stupid to waste brain cells on though, so you will go on my block list. Good day.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Thiem may never win the French for crying out loud. So LMFAO talking about him winning Wimbledon where he can't even win matches most of the time. And I never laughed at Nadal winning Wimbledon, I predicted when people like YOU (stupid people like you were the only ones ever saying it, not knowledgable fans like me) that Nadal would win Wimbledon atleast once, and more likely 2 or 3 times, and make a minimum of 3 finals there. Which lo and behold I was right on, like I am pretty much always right. And you were most likely totally wrong on, like you are pretty much always wrong I imagine; just like your absurd talk of Thiem winning Wimbledon will end up an epic fail when he never makes it past the round of 16 there. You are too stupid to waste brain cells on though, so you will go on my block list. Good day.
Uncalled for. Don't need to be so mean.
 
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vex

Hall of Fame
Disclaimer: This is in no way a response to Lew's thread. This is just a tidbit that felt interesting to me.

I just think Thiem will start having Novak's number now.

Thiem since 2017(When Djokovic turned 30) has a edge over Djokovic. Thiem had lost 5 straight matches: 1 in 2014 , 4 in 2016

But he is leading it 4-2 after 2017.


He has 3-1 record against him in slams and WTF since then.

And he was a hair away from making it 4-0 in Australia.He has outplayed Novak in all 4 important meetings.

Personally I think Thiem was ready. This season suspension messed him up.
It’s entirely possible. I think it’s more likely that Thiem continues dropping matches he OUGHT to win, limiting the number of times Djoker even has to play him. Thiem isn’t suddenly going to be making the Wimby final or every USO/AO SF/F. He’s just not that level of player.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Thiem may never win the French for crying out loud. So LMFAO talking about him winning Wimbledon where he can't even win matches most of the time. And I never laughed at Nadal winning Wimbledon, I predicted when people like YOU (stupid people like you were the only ones ever saying it, not knowledgable fans like me) that Nadal would win Wimbledon atleast once, and more likely 2 or 3 times, and make a minimum of 3 finals there. Which lo and behold I was right on, like I am pretty much always right. And you were most likely totally wrong on, like you are pretty much always wrong I imagine; just like your absurd talk of Thiem winning Wimbledon will end up an epic fail when he never makes it past the round of 16 there. You are too stupid to waste brain cells on though, so you will go on my block list. Good day.
You predicted nothing, little clown. :p
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
There's not much to say about the match-up. Think Thiem will continue having an edge at the FO (though that has more with Novak's drop in level on clay) while Novak will handle him in other slams at those rare times Thiem can make it to him.

If Nadal could figure out grass, so can Thiem.
Nadal made a Wimbledon final as a 20 year old. Thiem doesn't belong in the same sentence.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I actually think that Australia win was big for Djokovic and would set Thiem back a little, as far as challenging Djokovic off clay. Djokovic was getting ready to assault the tour. Covid-19 really stopped him in his tracks.
I'm not sure how big it was but what I saw was Novak basically throwing away two sets (for whatever reasons, physical or mental) and still winning relatively comfortably. Next time they meet in a non-FO slam I'd expect a routine Novak win.

Thiem will get Novak in masters a few times (because Novak doesn't care about them at this point) and at maybe at WTF again given Novak can't sustain his level/intensity for the whole season anymore.
 

SonnyT

Semi-Pro
Nadal made a Wimbledon final as a 20 year old. Thiem doesn't belong in the same sentence.
And hasn't made a final in the last decade. Thiem has a much chance to make and win a Wimbledon final in the coming decade than Nadal.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
I'm not sure how big it was but what I saw was Novak basically throwing away two sets (for whatever reasons, physical or mental) and still winning relatively comfortably. Next time they meet in a non-FO slam I'd expect a routine Novak win.

Thiem will get Novak in masters a few times (because Novak doesn't care about them at this point) and at maybe at WTF again given Novak can't sustain his level/intensity for the whole season anymore.
To, it was the best I have ever seen Thiem play in Australia and he still came up short. That would give Djokovic confidence knowing he wasn't at his best, took the best he ever seen from the other guy and still prevailed. At the same time, that had to have stung Thiem. From the way Djokovic started this year, he meant business and I even think he was going all in in Masters and other tournaments because he really really wanted that #1 record. I think his focus was going to be much more intense than 2019.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
To, it was the best I have ever seen Thiem play in Australia and he still came up short. That would give Djokovic confidence knowing he wasn't at his best, took the best he ever seen from the other guy and still prevailed. At the same time, that had to have stung Thiem. From the way Djokovic started this year, he meant business and I even think he was going all in in Masters and other tournaments because he really really wanted that #1 record. I think his focus was going to be much more intense than 2019.
Exactly. I don't think this match will give Thiem too much confidence.

Djokovic will have to drop severely for Thiem to beat him in a non-clay slam.
 
I'm not sure. I think the blueprint of this match up, very firmly drawn up now their biggest match up has been played, is not that exciting. Thiem to win RG pre finals matches; Thiem to take Djokovic to a close three set loss on hard; Thiem and Djokovic to split the odd ATP Clay 1000 Sf here and there, maybe the odd final; Thiem to choke lose slam finals to Djokovic. Maybe worth tuning in for on an otherwise uneventful day. Though I will say RG '19 SF was one of my matches of last season. All credit to Thiem there.
 
Disclaimer: This is in no way a response to Lew's thread. This is just a tidbit that felt interesting to me.

I just think Thiem will start having Novak's number now.

Thiem since 2017(When Djokovic turned 30) has a edge over Djokovic. Thiem had lost 5 straight matches: 1 in 2014 , 4 in 2016

But he is leading it 4-2 after 2017.


He has 3-1 record against him in slams and WTF since then.

And he was a hair away from making it 4-0 in Australia.He has outplayed Novak in all 4 important meetings.

Personally I think Thiem was ready. This season suspension messed him up.
He's almost 27 - he should damn well be ready by now.
 

DSH

Legend
Thiem wasted a big chance to take down the Joker at his favourite slam.
But at least he will never lose against him at RG again.
:D
 

SonnyT

Semi-Pro
Thiem wasted a big chance to take down the Joker at his favourite slam.
But at least he will never lose against him at RG again.
:D
Ridiculous, how could anyone know Djokovic won't beat Thiem at RG? After losing to Thiem in 5 sets in '19, in a match that Djokovic didn't want to win in the first place!

It wasn't like Thiem thrashed Djokovic in 3 dominant tiebreaks, like he did to some ATG at AO!
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Ridiculous, how could anyone know Djokovic won't beat Thiem at RG? After losing to Thiem in 5 sets in '19, in a match that Djokovic didn't want to win in the first place!

It wasn't like Thiem thrashed Djokovic in 3 dominant tiebreaks, like he did to some ATG at AO!
Djokovic will find it tough to beat Thiem and Nadal back to back. That's the likely route he has to go to have a chance at winning RG again.
 

SonnyT

Semi-Pro
Djokovic will find it tough to beat Thiem and Nadal back to back. That's the likely route he has to go to have a chance at winning RG again.
How does that work? Why does Djokovic, as #1 seed, or at worst #2, have to beat both?

Or do you expect that Nadal's team and Guy Forget will conspire to stack the deck again, like they did last year?
 

Mike Sams

Legend
How does that work? Why does Djokovic, as #1 seed, or at worst #2, have to beat both?

Or do you expect that Nadal's team and Guy Forget will conspire to stack the deck again, like they did last year?
The tournament wants to have Federer/Nadal in the semis because it draws. So it's better to put Thiem on Djoker's side.
 

DSH

Legend
Ridiculous, how could anyone know Djokovic won't beat Thiem at RG? After losing to Thiem in 5 sets in '19, in a match that Djokovic didn't want to win in the first place!

It wasn't like Thiem thrashed Djokovic in 3 dominant tiebreaks, like he did to some ATG at AO!
You can quote me anytime the Serbian cannot hurdle that Austrian obstacle at Parisian clay from now and then.
;)
 

SonnyT

Semi-Pro
Djokovic lost to Thiem in 5 sets in a match he didn't want to win in the first place, and Nadalfans say Djokovic can't beat Thiem ever again at RG.

Nadal lost to Thiem in 4 sets by losing decisively in all 3 tiebreaks, I haven't heard any Djokfans say Nadal won't beat Thiem ever again at AO.

This is what I will say: chances are higher that Djokovic beat Thiem at RG than Nadal beat Thiem at AO!
 

rhoder

Rookie
To, it was the best I have ever seen Thiem play in Australia and he still came up short. That would give Djokovic confidence knowing he wasn't at his best, took the best he ever seen from the other guy and still prevailed. At the same time, that had to have stung Thiem. From the way Djokovic started this year, he meant business and I even think he was going all in in Masters and other tournaments because he really really wanted that #1 record. I think his focus was going to be much more intense than 2019.
Djokovic wasn’t at his best sure, but it seemed to me like it was a function of Thiem overpowering him rather than just a poor day for him. The way he started out the final in the 1st set, was very impressive, AO19F like. Unlike Nadal in AO19F though, Thiem started to settle in and gradually started pressuring Djokovic more and more until he looked pretty poor level wise in the 3rd-mid 4th sets, which he attributed to “lack of energy”. Whether it’s due to Thiem making him retrieve everything or a result of some medical conditions no one can say for sure.

Thiem would be sorely disappointed that he couldn’t close it out in the 4th and probably give him some doubts on his mental performance. But play wise I think there will be positive takeaways for him, knowing he can match Novak at the baseline and at times overpower him on his home turf.

I think for Thiem he definitely needs to figure how to deal with unexpected delays in his matches better, everytime there’s a timeout the momentum shifts away from him (whether its due to weather like FO19 or MTO like in AO20), some way that he can sustain the intensity. (Same goes when he faced Nadal as well when Nadal took a timeout in FO19 final)
 
I actually think that Australia win was big for Djokovic and would set Thiem back a little, as far as challenging Djokovic off clay. Djokovic was getting ready to assault the tour. Covid-19 really stopped him in his tracks.
That’s a very generous interpretation. Novak looked like he had checked out in Set 3. Thiem had taken 4 of the last 6 sets off him at that point on two of Nole’s best surfaces. Nobody besides maybe Stan has had that kind of success.
BUT, alas, Thiem’s level dropped a lot and Nole doesn’t quit.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
That’s a very generous interpretation. Novak looked like he had checked out in Set 3. Thiem had taken 4 of the last 6 sets off him at that point on two of Nole’s best surfaces. Nobody besides maybe Stan has had that kind of success.
BUT, alas, Thiem’s level dropped a lot and Nole doesn’t quit.
Well he was struggling physically is what he said. I think Thiem's level dropped a bit but I don't know about a lot. The main reason the match turned the way it did is because Djokovic's level dropped so much. I think mentally that match would be a boost for Djokovic because he know he wasn't at his best but Thiem played the best he has ever played in Australia and it wasn't enough. Going forward, to me, that gives a bit of an mental advantage to Djokovic, at least on hardcourt.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Well he was struggling physically is what he said. I think Thiem's level dropped a bit but I don't know about a lot. The main reason the match turned the way it did is because Djokovic's level dropped so much. I think mentally that match would be a boost for Djokovic because he know he wasn't at his best but Thiem played the best he has ever played in Australia and it wasn't enough. Going forward, to me, that gives a bit of an mental advantage to Djokovic, at least on hardcourt.
It was really all on Djokovic.

Thiem has the weapons, but someone like Wawrinka is better at taking the match out of Djokovic's hands in ways Thiem just can't.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic wasn’t at his best sure, but it seemed to me like it was a function of Thiem overpowering him rather than just a poor day for him. The way he started out the final in the 1st set, was very impressive, AO19F like. Unlike Nadal in AO19F though, Thiem started to settle in and gradually started pressuring Djokovic more and more until he looked pretty poor level wise in the 3rd-mid 4th sets, which he attributed to “lack of energy”. Whether it’s due to Thiem making him retrieve everything or a result of some medical conditions no one can say for sure.

Thiem would be sorely disappointed that he couldn’t close it out in the 4th and probably give him some doubts on his mental performance. But play wise I think there will be positive takeaways for him, knowing he can match Novak at the baseline and at times overpower him on his home turf.

I think for Thiem he definitely needs to figure how to deal with unexpected delays in his matches better, everytime there’s a timeout the momentum shifts away from him (whether its due to weather like FO19 or MTO like in AO20), some way that he can sustain the intensity. (Same goes when he faced Nadal as well when Nadal took a timeout in FO19 final)
I don't think Djokovic was being overpowered and just couldn't keep up with Thiem's level. I think there was definitely some physical issue going on. He hit more winners than Thiem in set 3 but made 6 more unforced errors. To me, he was doing more first strike in that set because he didn't have the energy to sustain in the rallies, but had no trouble hitting winners at will.

I really didn't see him overpower Djokovic, at all really. Thiem is the biggest hitter and they hit about the same amount of winners from the baseline. This shows that Djokovic can go toe to toe with him, so he will have to come up with something more than power to beat him on hardcourt.

I think there was a medical timeout but the shift at the end was mainly Djokovic in my eyes. He made 14 winners and 5 unforced errors in set 4, his best set of the match. Thiem made 10 winners and 7 unforced errors so he didn't play badly that set.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
It was really all on Djokovic.

Thiem has the weapons, but someone like Wawrinka is better at taking the match out of Djokovic's hands in ways Thiem just can't.
Wawrinka's angles are what hurts Djokovic the most, especially the crosscourt wide backhand pulling Djokovic off the court and opening up the down line. I think Djokovic feeds him shots that he likes. This is why he has challenged Djokovic.
 

rhoder

Rookie
I don't think Djokovic was being overpowered and just couldn't keep up with Thiem's level. I think there was definitely some physical issue going on. He hit more winners than Thiem in set 3 but made 6 more unforced errors. To me, he was doing more first strike in that set because he didn't have the energy to sustain in the rallies, but had no trouble hitting winners at will.

I really didn't see him overpower Djokovic, at all really. Thiem is the biggest hitter and they hit about the same amount of winners from the baseline. This shows that Djokovic can go toe to toe with him, so he will have to come up with something more than power to beat him on hardcourt.

I think there was a medical timeout but the shift at the end was mainly Djokovic in my eyes. He made 14 winners and 5 unforced errors in set 4, his best set of the match. Thiem made 10 winners and 7 unforced errors so he didn't play badly that set.
Overpowering was perhaps too strong a word but Djokovic was having plenty to deal with against Thiem’s powerful groundstrokes.

But yep I agree Novak has a much easier time hitting winners against Thiem here as compared to at the French.

But honestly, I don’t see what else Thiem can do playstyle wise. Blasting through Djokovic with knifey slices incorporated is probably the best way he stands to beat Djokovic, that’s his strength as well. But he somehow has to rid of the mental lapses within the match, something Djokovic is an expert at capitalising on. The mental aspect is the main difference between Thiem and Wawrinka when facing Djokovic, imo. Plus Wawrinka is smarter in knowing when to play safe and just throw no pace balls to get into a better position before ripping.
 
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Shaj

Rookie
Djokovic lost to Thiem in 5 sets in a match he didn't want to win in the first place, and Nadalfans say Djokovic can't beat Thiem ever again at RG.

Nadal lost to Thiem in 4 sets by losing decisively in all 3 tiebreaks, I haven't heard any Djokfans say Nadal won't beat Thiem ever again at AO.

This is what I will say: chances are higher that Djokovic beat Thiem at RG than Nadal beat Thiem at AO!
Lost you in first line itself.Made no sense whatsoever..
 

I Am Finnish

Talk Tennis Guru
Disclaimer: This is in no way a response to Lew's thread. This is just a tidbit that felt interesting to me.

I just think Thiem will start having Novak's number now.

Thiem since 2017(When Djokovic turned 30) has a edge over Djokovic. Thiem had lost 5 straight matches: 1 in 2014 , 4 in 2016

But he is leading it 4-2 after 2017.


He has 3-1 record against him in slams and WTF since then.

And he was a hair away from making it 4-0 in Australia.He has outplayed Novak in all 4 important meetings.

Personally I think Thiem was ready. This season suspension messed him up.
Stopped reading at outplayed
WTF & RG last year went to distance lol
 
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Hitman

Legend
Thiem wasted a big chance to take down the Joker at his favourite slam.
But at least he will never lose against him at RG again.
:D
So if Thiem goes through a barbaric battle with Nadal in the semis, and scraps through, while Djokovic gets a relatively easier opponent in his semis and cruises into the final, Thiem is still the lock to win RG? :D LOL OK, if you say so...or are you implying that Djokovic will always be drawing Thiem in his half, while Nadal gets the easier path? If you are, it doesn't say much for honest draws, does it? :) (y)
 
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Gorecki

G.O.A.T.
my favourite churros are those filled with Dulce de Leche.... but dont go easy on the theeth washing, as they are truly worse than chocolate frosted sugar bombs, the likes of which only Calvin could speak of.
 
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