The men's draw is getting even older...

Here's the age distribution of the 23 men left:

19: Borna Coric, Alexander Zverev
22: Dominic Thiem
25: David Goffin, Milos Raonic
26: Kei Nishikori, Aljaz Bedene
27: Ernests Gulbis
28: Roberto Bautista Agut, Albert Ramos-Vinolas
29: Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray, Richard Gasquet
30: Pablo Cuevas, Tomas Berdych, Marcel Granollers, Nicolas Almagro, Viktor Troicki
31: Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, Stan Wawrinka, John Isner
34: David Ferrer, Feliciano Lopez

Dividing into categories:
Teenagers: 2
Early-20 somethings (20-24 inclusive): 1
Late-20 somethings (25-29 inclusive): 7
Early-30 somethings (30-34 inclusive): 10
Late-30 somethings (35-39 inclusive): 0 - Karlovic the last to go.

So, still three young or youngish players who could break through, and one of them is guaranteed to make round 4 and likely to make the quarter-finals. Nadal's withdrawal may have opened up the door somewhat, but the overall composition of the middle rounds seems to me to be getting even older each major. If I recall correctly, at this stage in the Australian Open there were still more late-20 somethings than there were early-30 somethings.
 
How many indirect entries were over 25? Marsel was 28, Darci 32, F. Thomas 26, De Schepper 29, Berlocq 33, A. Martin 26, Brown 31, Unger 31, Steps 37, Albot 26, Semper Montana 26, Sijsling 28...
 
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stringertom

Bionic Poster
One left (Thiem) age 20-24 and he has never made a slam QF! That shows how bad the development of talent has become. No wonder the Fab 5 (yes, Wawa with 2 slams should have equal billing with Murray) have won all but four slams since '04, twelve friggin' years ago. From the time I started following tennis in the mid-70's there have always been a handful of early 20's players capable of winning the big titles.
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
Here's the age distribution of the 23 men left:

19: Borna Coric, Alexander Zverev
22: Dominic Thiem
25: David Goffin, Milos Raonic
26: Kei Nishikori, Aljaz Bedene
27: Ernests Gulbis
28: Roberto Bautista Agut, Albert Ramos-Vinolas
29: Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray, Richard Gasquet
30: Pablo Cuevas, Tomas Berdych, Marcel Granollers, Nicolas Almagro, Viktor Troicki
31: Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, Stan Wawrinka, John Isner
34: David Ferrer, Feliciano Lopez

Dividing into categories:
Teenagers: 2
Early-20 somethings (20-24 inclusive): 1
Late-20 somethings (25-29 inclusive): 7
Early-30 somethings (30-34 inclusive): 10
Late-30 somethings (35-39 inclusive): 0 - Karlovic the last to go.

So, still three young or youngish players who could break through, and one of them is guaranteed to make round 4 and likely to make the quarter-finals. Nadal's withdrawal may have opened up the door somewhat, but the overall composition of the middle rounds seems to me to be getting even older each major. If I recall correctly, at this stage in the Australian Open there were still more late-20 somethings than there were early-30 somethings.
Well, I clicked "like" but I don't like it at all.

I think Thiem is the young guy with the best shot, but I don't have much faith in him either.
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
One left (Thiem) age 20-24 and he has never made a slam QF! That shows how bad the development of talent has become. No wonder the Fab 5 (yes, Wawa with 2 slams should have equal billing with Murray) have won all but four slams since '04, twelve friggin' years ago. From the time I started following tennis in the mid-70's there have always been a handful of early 20's players capable of winning the big titles.
Even the most even-tempered members are coming out of the closet today in favor of more youth. ;)

I agree with you 100%. I find the state of men's tennis right now to be beyond depressing.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Even the most even-tempered members are coming out of the closet today in favor of more youth. ;)

I agree with you 100%. I find the state of men's tennis right now to be beyond depressing.
I'll go even further...the ones now aged 25-28 are the poorest performers in the game's history. That age is prime time to produce and we enjoyed the anomaly of the Cilic/Nishikori final at USO'14, where one had to win. Other than that, it's just JMDP's sole title in '09 when he was just 2 weeks shy of 21.
#TheLostGeneration
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
I'll go even further...the ones now aged 25-28 are the poorest performers in the game's history. That age is prime time to produce and we enjoyed the anomaly of the Cilic/Nishikori final at USO'14, where one had to win. Other than that, it's just JMDP's sole title in '09 when he was just 2 weeks shy of 21.
#TheLostGeneration
It seems that today was almost the last straw for a lot of people. Fans of Djokovic are utterly blind to what is happening because Novak is still riding the wave - understandable - but Murray and Novak will be the next two to fall, and it won't be as long as most people think. Wawrinka is even older.

It does not look good...
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
The parallels between things right now and the later 60s have never been stronger. Back then it was the influx of pros into a system that had no experience with that level of play. But the result was similar, and the cause was the same. Most players were way below the level of the top players.

That situation made it just the right time for Laver, and the same thing is probably true for Novak right now.

Very similar...
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
The parallels between things right now and the later 60s have never been stronger. Back then it was the influx of pros into a system that had no experience with that level of play. But the result was similar, and the cause was the same. Most players were way below the level of the top players.

That situation made it just the right time for Laver, and the same thing is probably true for Novak right now.

Very similar...

Interesting comparison there, Gary.
 

Crionics

Semi-Pro
Yes, the state of men's tennis is in a pretty **** poor state. It is not just about Djokovic winning everything and making every single tournament he enters boring and predictable. But it is also all the young ones failing quite badly against the likes of Gasquet/Ferrer/Berdych. Just saw today that Nick Kyrgios lost to Gasquet:rolleyes:
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
Interesting comparison there, Gary.
My take is that the top level of tennis had been weakened for a long time. Look at Emerson's record, then look at what he did when he had to play against the best. Every time there was a young champion who was REALLY good, pro tennis nabbed that guy ASAP. They got Gonazales (Gonzalez), then Hoad and Rosewall, then Laver. And other people in between. Before that Kramer left amateur tennis. So when the pros were allowed to play there was a HUGE vacuum under them.

The situation is 100% different now except for one thing: Novak came up under the Fedal pressure-cooker. He was totally in Fed's shadow because of being 6 years younger, and totally in Nadal's shadow because he didn't really have his own niche. It wasn't going to be on grass. And all the top guys were playing hard on HCs.

Talk about the worst possible time for someone to climb on top. So as much as I do NOT like Novak's game - and to be honest I truly hate it - he deserves total credit for staying in there and battling through. If things are "too easy" now, they used to be "too hard".

There are parallels between him and Laver.

Laver as the youngest had to battle through all the older pros, and that very much included both Rosewall and Hoad.He was playing against an incredibly small, tough, competitive group, and by 1969 he was by far the strongest man left standing.

I won't be rooting for Novak if he gets to the final. I may not watch. Or I may record and think about it if he wins. Or if Murray wins.

But for younger people who grew up watching people like Murray and Novak it might be a very exciting time. And Wawrinka too, who has to be one of tennis history's best big match players.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Yes, the state of men's tennis is in a pretty **** poor state. It is not just about Djokovic winning everything and making every single tournament he enters boring and predictable. But it is also all the young ones failing quite badly against the likes of Gasquet/Ferrer/Berdych. Just saw today that Nick Kyrgios lost to Gasquet:rolleyes:
Sorry to tell you mate but there's just no heart there. He has enough talent to win that matchup or at least make it competitive for longer than a set.

A mental guru is his only hope but the light bulb is gonna have to want to change himself first.
 

reaper

Legend
Sorry to tell you mate but there's just no heart there. He has enough talent to win that matchup or at least make it competitive for longer than a set.

A mental guru is his only hope but the light bulb is gonna have to want to change himself first.

Kyrgios played a poor match. He said so in the press conference. A player who can beat Federer, Nadal and Wawrinka can also beat Gasquet, unless he plays a poor match, which Kyrgios did yesterday. I think it's a mistake to read anything into it beyond that.
 

gn

G.O.A.T.
Kyrgios played a poor match. He said so in the press conference. A player who can beat Federer, Nadal and Wawrinka can also beat Gasquet, unless he plays a poor match, which Kyrgios did yesterday. I think it's a mistake to read anything into it beyond that.

In fact, he already defeated Richie couple of months ago. So I guess he played a bad match. May be he is not ready for Slams yet.
He needs to be consistent in beating Top Players in BO3. Nick and Milos may have a shot at Wimby though.
 

reaper

Legend
In fact, he already defeated Richie couple of months ago. So I guess he played a bad match. May be he is not ready for Slams yet.
He needs to be consistent in beating Top Players in BO3. Nick and Milos may have a shot at Wimby though.

I don't think it's right that he's not ready for slams either. If you go back to 2014 he made it to the 1/4's at Wimbledon and 4th round of the USO (from memory) when he had won few ATP tour level matches. At that time Kyrgios was being criticised as a guy who could only rise for Grand Slam tournaments but was hopeless at tour level. Now he's quite successful at tour level but not up to slams. One of the worst matches I've ever seen from a professional tennis player was Del Potro against Federer at the 2009 Australian Open. He barely hit a ball in the court and won about 2 games in the match. Del Potro won the USO that year. Absolutely nothing could be read into his loss to Federer other than a bad day. Same with Kyrgios yesterday.
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think it's right that he's not ready for slams either. If you go back to 2014 he made it to the 1/4's at Wimbledon and 4th round of the USO (from memory) when he had won few ATP tour level matches. At that time Kyrgios was being criticised as a guy who could only rise for Grand Slam tournaments but was hopeless at tour level. Now he's quite successful at tour level but not up to slams. One of the worst matches I've ever seen from a professional tennis player was Del Potro against Federer at the 2009 Australian Open. He barely hit a ball in the court and won about 2 games in the match. Del Potro won the USO that year. Absolutely nothing could be read into his loss to Federer other than a bad day. Same with Kyrgios yesterday.
I don't think he's ready. He can't string enough matches together against top players.
 
It was round 3 of the US Open.

Kyrgios might be readier at Wimbledon, and I could see a run to the semis or so. But clay is always going to be a hard surface for him.

I don't think it's right that he's not ready for slams either. If you go back to 2014 he made it to the 1/4's at Wimbledon and 4th round of the USO (from memory) when he had won few ATP tour level matches. At that time Kyrgios was being criticised as a guy who could only rise for Grand Slam tournaments but was hopeless at tour level. Now he's quite successful at tour level but not up to slams. One of the worst matches I've ever seen from a professional tennis player was Del Potro against Federer at the 2009 Australian Open. He barely hit a ball in the court and won about 2 games in the match. Del Potro won the USO that year. Absolutely nothing could be read into his loss to Federer other than a bad day. Same with Kyrgios yesterday.
 
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Here're the last 16:

22: Dominic Thiem
25: David Goffin, Milos Raonic
26: Kei Nishikori
27: Ernests Gulbis
28: Roberto Bautista Agut, Albert Ramos-Vinolas
29: Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray, Richard Gasquet
30: Tomas Berdych, Marcel Granollers, Viktor Troicki
31: Stan Wawrinka, John Isner
34: David Ferrer

Teenagers: 0
20-24: 1
25-29: 9
30-34: 6

So, late-20 somethings still ahead of early-30 somethings in the last 16. But only one man younger than 25!
 
For comparison, the women's last 16:

21: Elina Svitolina, Yulia Putintseva, Madison Keys
22: Garbine Muguruza
23: Shelby Rogers
24: Kiki Bertens, Simona Halep
26: Timea Bacsinszky, Irina-Camelia Begu
27: Agnieszka Radwanska
28: Carla Suarez-Navarro, Tsvetana Pironkova
30: Svetlana Kuznetsova
32: Samantha Stosur
34: Serena Williams
35: Venus Williams

Teenagers: 0
20-24: 7
25-29: 5
30-34: 3
35-39: 1
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
If Murray makes the makes the final beating isner, gasquet, wawrinka, I'm pretty sure the average age of the 6 players he beats to get to the final will be the oldest of anyone to reach a major final since the late 60s(perhaps even before that)
 
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If Murray makes the makes the final beating isner, gasquet, wawrinka, I'm pretty sure the average age of the 6 players he beats to get to the final will be the oldest of anyone to reach a major final since the late 60s(perhaps even before that)

It's more likely to be Nishikori than Gasquet, but even that would be 37, 22, 37, 31, 26, 31.
 
Well, I hope I spoke too soon: Gasquet is serving for the opening set against Nishikori, having trailed 4-2 before the rain delay. Nothing against Kei, but I'd love to see Gasquet finally make a run at Roland Garros. He certainly has the game for it.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
One left (Thiem) age 20-24 and he has never made a slam QF! That shows how bad the development of talent has become. No wonder the Fab 5 (yes, Wawa with 2 slams should have equal billing with Murray) have won all but four slams since '04, twelve friggin' years ago. From the time I started following tennis in the mid-70's there have always been a handful of early 20's players capable of winning the big titles.
But all that tells us is that there is a big difference between the very top players and the rest. It doesn't tell us if that because the top players are so just better or the rest so much worse.

If Nole, Nadal and Federer had never existed would we talk of an unusually strong era in the last 12 years?
 
So, all four quarter-finalists in the bottom half are aged 28 or more:

28: Albert Ramos-Vinolas
29: Richard Gasquet, Andy Murray
31: Stan Wawrinka

It's now inevitable that at least six of the quarter-finalists will be 28 or more, as both the Djokovic/Bautista Agut and the Ferrer/Berdych matches are between two players aged 28 or more. Goffin v Gulbis features two players aged 27 or younger, and Thiem is likely to beat Granollers, so it will likely be six aged 28 or more and two aged 27 or less, but could perhaps be 7-1 if Granollers were to surprise Thiem.
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
It's official, murrays average of opponents en route to the final are oldest in open era(probably have to go pretty far back to match this, maybe the 50s?) The fact that guys like gasquet are having this great longevity is weird to me. He doesn't strike me as a gym rat.
 
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