The Mixed Up Warm-Up

#1
I’m wondering whether there is a preferred way to handle the warm up in mixed.

I usually play the deuce court. Often the player opposite me during warmups is the opposing man. If I warm up with him, I will get a chance to experience his faster-paced and heavier ball, which could help me get used to it during the match. On the other hand, he will get to see that I cannot handle his ball very well.

Sometimes I have switched over to the ad side for the warm-up to warm up with the opposing woman (so the men warm up with one another). This has the advantage of my being able to evaluate her style, which will help me decide how to play to her.

What do you think? Is it better to have the genders warm up against one another, or just have players warm up on the side they will receive on during the match?
 
#2
You are on the same court, act like you are equals, that may even intimidate some men. He'll figure out your weaknesses quickly anyways, so why try to hide it, but you may be able to also find out about his weaknesses. I really like rallying with a lady during warm up in MXD, it shows confidence on her part I think.
 
#3
Sorry I always warm up opposite the guy. I let my wife chit chat up the opposing woman so neither gets warm. All the while I’m sizing up how great a threat the guy is.
Division of labor.
 
#4
I’m wondering whether there is a preferred way to handle the warm up in mixed.

I usually play the deuce court. Often the player opposite me during warmups is the opposing man. If I warm up with him, I will get a chance to experience his faster-paced and heavier ball, which could help me get used to it during the match. On the other hand, he will get to see that I cannot handle his ball very well.

Sometimes I have switched over to the ad side for the warm-up to warm up with the opposing woman (so the men warm up with one another). This has the advantage of my being able to evaluate her style, which will help me decide how to play to her.

What do you think? Is it better to have the genders warm up against one another, or just have players warm up on the side they will receive on during the match?
Do whatever you think will give you the edge.
 
#5
i thought etiquette dictates that you warm up with the same sex opponent, but i guess you can
do whatever you want, as long as its agreeable with your opponent.
usually i warm up with the guy, and my partner with the lady.
that is what i do
z
 

TagUrIt

Professional
#6
You are on the same court, act like you are equals, that may even intimidate some men. He'll figure out your weaknesses quickly anyways, so why try to hide it, but you may be able to also find out about his weaknesses.

I agree, a good player will sense what your weakneses are relatively quickly. When I took tennis drills class we would warm up opposite player, but then also go cross court during the warm up as well. Maybe suggest this next time, so you can hit against both.
 

TagUrIt

Professional
#9
And, if you agree with the Essential Tennis folks, you get to return both M and F serves in the warm up

I saw this warm up and I thought it was one of the best structured warmups. Most people don’t do this though they, start off short and work they’re way back. The pros warm up the way the way Essential Tennis video displayed within 5 minutes.
 
#10
I’m wondering whether there is a preferred way to handle the warm up in mixed.

I usually play the deuce court. Often the player opposite me during warmups is the opposing man. If I warm up with him, I will get a chance to experience his faster-paced and heavier ball, which could help me get used to it during the match. On the other hand, he will get to see that I cannot handle his ball very well.

Sometimes I have switched over to the ad side for the warm-up to warm up with the opposing woman (so the men warm up with one another). This has the advantage of my being able to evaluate her style, which will help me decide how to play to her.

What do you think? Is it better to have the genders warm up against one another, or just have players warm up on the side they will receive on during the match?
you are doing it all wrong. You can't return your opponent's serves during warmup, if you do, you might be asked to default or leave. This is the rules of the league.
 
#12
Yes in mixed typically warm up across from same gender ..... except for serves, then be on the side from which you will be returning ... you get to see both of their serves.

And, if you agree with the Essential Tennis folks, you get to return both M and F serves in the warm up


Haha, this is awesome! I play at fairly low level (roughly equivalent to USTA 3.0/3.5) mens and mixed doubles and I WISH our warmups could look half this good or be half this useful. What happens in these ALTA matches is that they're all doubles, and usually you have as many as 5 lines (4 for seniors) all scheduled to play the same day. Each facility is required to have a minimum of 2 courts, and most only have that, so it means that lines 3 and 4 are often waiting around for a long time before they even step onto the courts - with line 5 players often waiting even longer. It is often not feasible for people to have any sort of extra courts to go and rally around on while waiting for their match to start and we try to have people arrive for the match at staggered times, but if a match goes long, or several matches go long, that results in players sitting for sometimes hours before getting out on the courts. Sometimes during the Winter and early Spring seasons, it's dang cold even in Georgia (we played a match at 37 degrees F this season already) and sitting around for all that time is just brutal. Anyway, so then, you get a supposed 10 minutes for warmup... let me tell you what that looks like at ALTA B-5 to B-8 level:

Sometimes we start with a minute or so of mini-tennis, but not always. Then (because it's doubles), players pair off and use one half of the court for the opening rallying, and let me just tell you - this is a complete sh*tshow. These are players, (myself often included) that are often unable to have more than a 5 shot rally. So these players who have been sitting for hours now have to loosen up full court ground strokes and only utilize half of the width of the court to do so, AND they only open one can of balls to start the match, so one pair has 2 the other has 1. Invariably the players hit wild warmup shots into the other side where the other pair is trying to keep their rally going. You can imagine, the majority of this time spent during "warm up" is warming up by chasing balls and apologizing to the neighboring court (where a match may be ongoing) for interrupting them... so your legs get loose anyway.... if you get some players that aren't spraying the ball everywhere, it's someone working on their drop shot slice ball that just comes over the net, or someone working on their 90 mph forehand drive from the baseline... total sh*tshow... total. You might get one or two decent warmup groundstrokes on a given day - and if it's a cold day - fugeddaboudit!

Then it's on to the volley practice, more than half the women just skip this. Half the groundstrokers are skying balls over the volleyer or hitting the ball into the net or wildly across the court, and half the time the volleyers themselves are putting away angled volleys or slamming overheads and bouncing them out of the court, if they get a good volley at all. More running for balls over and over... switch volleyers and ground strokers, repeat... more running for balls over and over...

Then it's on to serve practice and sure, the first couple balls might go into the net (remember, it's doubles so we have two servers and we're only using oen can of balls at the moment), and then it seems that the guy is blasting balls 10 feet long and if he doesn't, the male returner is trying to rip a winner that he might hit the OTHER server with if they aren't paying attention... during this warmup, I try to hit very deliberate, very easy "second serves" for the first 2 or 3 shots, then warm up to a "real" second serve and hit about 5 or 6 of them, then the last 2 or 3 will be 85% speed first serves. Then servers switch courts and repeat the process... men tee off on women's patty cake serves, men try to hit aces on their serve warmups to the women... and then the other side serves... total sh*tshow...

I think at below ALTA B-5 they should just start everyone off cold and play "first serve in" for each server for the first points in each court haha! It would be less embarrassing.
 
#13
wow. false. so false.
Yeah, the Code says you have to take all of your warm-up serves before the first serve of the match, and warm-up returns have to be hit so as not to disrupt the server. So you can warm up your return.

This may vary by local custom. But for USTA league here, the doubles warm-up is 15 minutes. Once serving begins, each pair serves three balls to the opponents. Then the opponents serve the six balls back. Repeat. Then the four players switch receiving sides; then they repeat the whole drill.

A player can return the serves, but if they do the player who is serving will interpret this as a lack of desire to serve. So the serving player will continue serving until it is time to move to the other court.

Personally, I won't hit service returns unless I had a really good warm-up already, and my serves felt right (like, I already played that day or something). In that case, I will practice returns instead of catching and serving them back. I will only hit slice returns because, well . . . that is the thing I most need to practice if I am only going to get a few of my opponents' serves to return.

I have seen another part of the country (Denver) where it seems that players have to have a shouted conversation every single time about how they will handle serving/returning. "OK, SO DO YOU WANT ME TO HIT THEM BACK TO YOU OR JUST HOLD THEM? WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU! ALL RIGHT, I'LL HOLD THEM, AND THEN WHEN I SERVE THEM TO YOU, YOU HOLD THEM ALSO, OK?"

Good heavens. Can't we all just catch and hold at the outset?
 
#15
I have seen another part of the country (Denver) where it seems that players have to have a shouted conversation every single time about how they will handle serving/returning. "OK, SO DO YOU WANT ME TO HIT THEM BACK TO YOU OR JUST HOLD THEM? WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU! ALL RIGHT, I'LL HOLD THEM, AND THEN WHEN I SERVE THEM TO YOU, YOU HOLD THEM ALSO, OK?"

Good heavens. Can't we all just catch and hold at the outset?
Here it goes both ways. Usually the civil discussion occurs at the same time as the spinning for serve, right before serve warm up. Most people I have been around do it like the mentioned Essential Tennis version of the warm up rare ones insist on the what I consider the inefficient catch and release
 

MRfStop

Professional
#16
I’m wondering whether there is a preferred way to handle the warm up in mixed.

I usually play the deuce court. Often the player opposite me during warmups is the opposing man. If I warm up with him, I will get a chance to experience his faster-paced and heavier ball, which could help me get used to it during the match. On the other hand, he will get to see that I cannot handle his ball very well.

Sometimes I have switched over to the ad side for the warm-up to warm up with the opposing woman (so the men warm up with one another). This has the advantage of my being able to evaluate her style, which will help me decide how to play to her.

What do you think? Is it better to have the genders warm up against one another, or just have players warm up on the side they will receive on during the match?
Your preference but if you prefer warming up with the lady let your partner know and warm up with her on the ad side. If you don’t mind warming up with guy warm up with him on the deuce...your opponent figuring out you can’t handle his shots doesn’t mean you’re going to lose...he may over hit etc because of it
 
#17
Yes in mixed typically warm up across from same gender ..... except for serves, then be on the side from which you will be returning ... you get to see both of their serves.

And, if you agree with the Essential Tennis folks, you get to return both M and F serves in the warm up


Thanks for posting this. Regarding the serve warm up -- I always try to hit a few easy ground stroke returns when the opponent is warming up his serve...actually read about that in Gilbert's book years ago. The thing is, for whatever reason, so many people are in the habit of 'I hit three serves, you catch them, then you hit three serves.' I've let it slide and gotten into the habit also, but in my mind the whole time, I'm wishing I was hitting back a few easy groundies... I've even had some people get miffed about it. To be clear, I'm not trying to crush winners back at them, just a easy groundie down the center of the court. Sooo...I've started telling them 'hey I'm gonna send your serves back'...seems to solve the issue, and if they don't like it that's their problem.
 
#18
Here it goes both ways. Usually the civil discussion occurs at the same time as the spinning for serve, right before serve warm up. Most people I have been around do it like the mentioned Essential Tennis version of the warm up rare ones insist on the what I consider the inefficient catch and release
Catch and hold is inefficient?

IME, league players lack the control to warm up like that video. Balls get sprayed all over the place, which slows down the warm-up. More efficient, I think, is for the receiver to catch the balls and serve them back.

In the case of the serve warm-up, hitting the ball back doubles the chance that the ball will have to be chased. The receiver can miss into the net and rarely has the control to send it calmly back to the server. Also troubling is that hitting returns increases the chances that someone will get hit by an errant ball. Like, I might be going to the net or curtain to pick up a ball, and here comes a warm-up return right at me.

After all, warm-up is not practice. If you have warmed up your groundstrokes already, you have warmed up your return. If you want to hit returns, you're just practicing at that point, right?

This may differ depending on whether you play timed matches. If you don't have a time limit, then yeah, sure, everyone can hit as many of any kind of shot as they want. Here, we have 15 minutes only, so we shouldn't spend that time chasing errant warm-up returns.
 
#19
Yeah, the Code says you have to take all of your warm-up serves before the first serve of the match, and warm-up returns have to be hit so as not to disrupt the server. So you can warm up your return.

This may vary by local custom. But for USTA league here, the doubles warm-up is 15 minutes. Once serving begins, each pair serves three balls to the opponents. Then the opponents serve the six balls back. Repeat. Then the four players switch receiving sides; then they repeat the whole drill.

A player can return the serves, but if they do the player who is serving will interpret this as a lack of desire to serve. So the serving player will continue serving until it is time to move to the other court.

Personally, I won't hit service returns unless I had a really good warm-up already, and my serves felt right (like, I already played that day or something). In that case, I will practice returns instead of catching and serving them back. I will only hit slice returns because, well . . . that is the thing I most need to practice if I am only going to get a few of my opponents' serves to return.

I have seen another part of the country (Denver) where it seems that players have to have a shouted conversation every single time about how they will handle serving/returning. "OK, SO DO YOU WANT ME TO HIT THEM BACK TO YOU OR JUST HOLD THEM? WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU! ALL RIGHT, I'LL HOLD THEM, AND THEN WHEN I SERVE THEM TO YOU, YOU HOLD THEM ALSO, OK?"

Good heavens. Can't we all just catch and hold at the outset?
this makes no sense. Warm up return has to be hit so you don't disrupt the server ???????? LOL. That is not true, you are warming up the return so that you can return the Guy's serve better in the match. You are only doing it to gain advantage. That is called poor sportsmanship. WOW
 
#21
Haha, this is awesome! I play at fairly low level (roughly equivalent to USTA 3.0/3.5) mens and mixed doubles and I WISH our warmups could look half this good or be half this useful. What happens in these ALTA matches is that they're all doubles, and usually you have as many as 5 lines (4 for seniors) all scheduled to play the same day. Each facility is required to have a minimum of 2 courts, and most only have that, so it means that lines 3 and 4 are often waiting around for a long time before they even step onto the courts - with line 5 players often waiting even longer. It is often not feasible for people to have any sort of extra courts to go and rally around on while waiting for their match to start and we try to have people arrive for the match at staggered times, but if a match goes long, or several matches go long, that results in players sitting for sometimes hours before getting out on the courts. Sometimes during the Winter and early Spring seasons, it's dang cold even in Georgia (we played a match at 37 degrees F this season already) and sitting around for all that time is just brutal. Anyway, so then, you get a supposed 10 minutes for warmup... let me tell you what that looks like at ALTA B-5 to B-8 level:

Sometimes we start with a minute or so of mini-tennis, but not always. Then (because it's doubles), players pair off and use one half of the court for the opening rallying, and let me just tell you - this is a complete sh*tshow. These are players, (myself often included) that are often unable to have more than a 5 shot rally. So these players who have been sitting for hours now have to loosen up full court ground strokes and only utilize half of the width of the court to do so, AND they only open one can of balls to start the match, so one pair has 2 the other has 1. Invariably the players hit wild warmup shots into the other side where the other pair is trying to keep their rally going. You can imagine, the majority of this time spent during "warm up" is warming up by chasing balls and apologizing to the neighboring court (where a match may be ongoing) for interrupting them... so your legs get loose anyway.... if you get some players that aren't spraying the ball everywhere, it's someone working on their drop shot slice ball that just comes over the net, or someone working on their 90 mph forehand drive from the baseline... total sh*tshow... total. You might get one or two decent warmup groundstrokes on a given day - and if it's a cold day - fugeddaboudit!

Then it's on to the volley practice, more than half the women just skip this. Half the groundstrokers are skying balls over the volleyer or hitting the ball into the net or wildly across the court, and half the time the volleyers themselves are putting away angled volleys or slamming overheads and bouncing them out of the court, if they get a good volley at all. More running for balls over and over... switch volleyers and ground strokers, repeat... more running for balls over and over...

Then it's on to serve practice and sure, the first couple balls might go into the net (remember, it's doubles so we have two servers and we're only using oen can of balls at the moment), and then it seems that the guy is blasting balls 10 feet long and if he doesn't, the male returner is trying to rip a winner that he might hit the OTHER server with if they aren't paying attention... during this warmup, I try to hit very deliberate, very easy "second serves" for the first 2 or 3 shots, then warm up to a "real" second serve and hit about 5 or 6 of them, then the last 2 or 3 will be 85% speed first serves. Then servers switch courts and repeat the process... men tee off on women's patty cake serves, men try to hit aces on their serve warmups to the women... and then the other side serves... total sh*tshow...

I think at below ALTA B-5 they should just start everyone off cold and play "first serve in" for each server for the first points in each court haha! It would be less embarrassing.
Lol. I have seen this exact warm up a time or two. Solid post.
 
#22
I usually keep my eye on my partner's opponent as well as my own when warming up in case I spot anything that stands out. But the opposing guy doesn't typically blast groundies so about the best I'm going to be able to do is pick up on movement, fluidity, etc. I can probably pick up on those things even if I'm warming up with the woman.
 

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#23
Haha, this is awesome! I play at fairly low level (roughly equivalent to USTA 3.0/3.5) mens and mixed doubles and I WISH our warmups could look half this good or be half this useful. What happens in these ALTA matches is that they're all doubles, and usually you have as many as 5 lines (4 for seniors) all scheduled to play the same day. Each facility is required to have a minimum of 2 courts, and most only have that, so it means that lines 3 and 4 are often waiting around for a long time before they even step onto the courts - with line 5 players often waiting even longer. It is often not feasible for people to have any sort of extra courts to go and rally around on while waiting for their match to start and we try to have people arrive for the match at staggered times, but if a match goes long, or several matches go long, that results in players sitting for sometimes hours before getting out on the courts. Sometimes during the Winter and early Spring seasons, it's dang cold even in Georgia (we played a match at 37 degrees F this season already) and sitting around for all that time is just brutal. Anyway, so then, you get a supposed 10 minutes for warmup... let me tell you what that looks like at ALTA B-5 to B-8 level:

Sometimes we start with a minute or so of mini-tennis, but not always. Then (because it's doubles), players pair off and use one half of the court for the opening rallying, and let me just tell you - this is a complete sh*tshow. These are players, (myself often included) that are often unable to have more than a 5 shot rally. So these players who have been sitting for hours now have to loosen up full court ground strokes and only utilize half of the width of the court to do so, AND they only open one can of balls to start the match, so one pair has 2 the other has 1. Invariably the players hit wild warmup shots into the other side where the other pair is trying to keep their rally going. You can imagine, the majority of this time spent during "warm up" is warming up by chasing balls and apologizing to the neighboring court (where a match may be ongoing) for interrupting them... so your legs get loose anyway.... if you get some players that aren't spraying the ball everywhere, it's someone working on their drop shot slice ball that just comes over the net, or someone working on their 90 mph forehand drive from the baseline... total sh*tshow... total. You might get one or two decent warmup groundstrokes on a given day - and if it's a cold day - fugeddaboudit!

Then it's on to the volley practice, more than half the women just skip this. Half the groundstrokers are skying balls over the volleyer or hitting the ball into the net or wildly across the court, and half the time the volleyers themselves are putting away angled volleys or slamming overheads and bouncing them out of the court, if they get a good volley at all. More running for balls over and over... switch volleyers and ground strokers, repeat... more running for balls over and over...

Then it's on to serve practice and sure, the first couple balls might go into the net (remember, it's doubles so we have two servers and we're only using oen can of balls at the moment), and then it seems that the guy is blasting balls 10 feet long and if he doesn't, the male returner is trying to rip a winner that he might hit the OTHER server with if they aren't paying attention... during this warmup, I try to hit very deliberate, very easy "second serves" for the first 2 or 3 shots, then warm up to a "real" second serve and hit about 5 or 6 of them, then the last 2 or 3 will be 85% speed first serves. Then servers switch courts and repeat the process... men tee off on women's patty cake serves, men try to hit aces on their serve warmups to the women... and then the other side serves... total sh*tshow...

I think at below ALTA B-5 they should just start everyone off cold and play "first serve in" for each server for the first points in each court haha! It would be less embarrassing.
I play 3.0, 3.5, 6.0 MXD, 7.0 MXD, and I can empathize with a lot of what you are saying.

But to answer @Cindysphinx question, my 7.0 partner likes to see the male opponent's serve. She would also like to see the male's groundstroke as well if possible. So many times, she'll start the warm-up against the male and when it is time to practice serves, she and I will switch.

I don't get much out of warm-ups. I've had a female just slap the ball back every time; half the balls are un-hitable. I think she did it on purpose. I get no real warm-up then. There are many at (men) 3.0 that can't hit an easy ball back to hold any kind of rally. I actually find female 3.0s to hold more consistent rallies.

The best thing to do is to find a court 1-2hrs in advance and go warm up/practice then. When I show up for the match, I am just doing a little scouting of my opponent and getting used to the court surroundings and the lights.

@Cawlin, I bring fairly fresh practice balls to the court (maybe balls that only have one match play) and ask the court if they would mind if we added these balls to the mix to speed up the warm-up process. Sharing 3 balls between 2 pairs of players is silly. But I see JR tennis matches doing this all the time.

For serve practice, I'm just loosening up my shoulder. I just slap a few balls and then try to get an easy topspin serve in by the end of the first round. For the second round, I'll try to go through the range of my serves ending with some good kick-serves to make sure they are there. For returns, I typically catch the first few, then try to return the last few to work on timing.
 
#24
I truly believe that anyone that has anything to legitimately surprise you with isn't going to give it away during warmup. Hell, half the 3.0/3.5 players intentionally give sh*tty warmups so their opponents can't get a solid warmup so they might get a game or two head start during the first set if they happen to run into anyone that has any decent skills. I am convinced that's why these low level players always play first ball in/first serve in for non-league, "pickup" matches... if you have a crap serve, what's your need to warm it up, and what benefit does it give you to let your opponent warm up their potentially better serve?

Anyway... it's rec tennis, I need to stop thinking about it like it's 30 years ago and I'm playing college baseball...
 
Last edited:
#26
Catch and hold is inefficient?

IME, league players lack the control to warm up like that video. Balls get sprayed all over the place, which slows down the warm-up. More efficient, I think, is for the receiver to catch the balls and serve them back.

In the case of the serve warm-up, hitting the ball back doubles the chance that the ball will have to be chased. The receiver can miss into the net and rarely has the control to send it calmly back to the server. Also troubling is that hitting returns increases the chances that someone will get hit by an errant ball. Like, I might be going to the net or curtain to pick up a ball, and here comes a warm-up return right at me.

After all, warm-up is not practice. If you have warmed up your groundstrokes already, you have warmed up your return. If you want to hit returns, you're just practicing at that point, right?

This may differ depending on whether you play timed matches. If you don't have a time limit, then yeah, sure, everyone can hit as many of any kind of shot as they want. Here, we have 15 minutes only, so we shouldn't spend that time chasing errant warm-up returns.
Yup, I find it inefficient for my warm up.
A. I prefer to serve more than 3 serves at a spell .... typically 6 per ad/deuce courts ... when you are done let opposition know to "keep it"
B. You are not blasting a groundstroke ... but you are certainly seeing the serve in a different way when you are returning it back than if you are catching it.
C. People suck at catching. They spend more time chasing their missed catch than if they had just hit it back
D. People I play with seem to have no problem hitting it back to the server with control ... very little is sprayed hither and yon
E. People pay attention. If you are at net getting a ball, no one is going to serve at you .... if you are at the curtain, well, it won't hurt if it does hit you and the returner returned it anyway so you are not hit

If you are just hitting the ball back, you are not practicing, but you are warming up that stroke just like the rest of the warm up. Particularly in mixed, that stroke is often a block and not something you have been able to warm up in ground strokes

Finally, we get a max 10 minute warm up .... fairly strictly enforced otherwise courts start getting really backed up throughout the day ....

As long as all those on the court are in agreement then no issues
 
#29
This is a long discussion for a fairly perfunctory part of rec tennis. Are we seriously already competing when we're warming up. Its warm up. Worry more about loosening up and warming up your muscles and less about what's going on with the opponent.

BTW, pros warm up differently because they are already warm when they get on the court. Most of us come to the court from our cars cold as ice. We need to actually warm up.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#31
you are doing it all wrong. You can't return your opponent's serves during warmup, if you do, you might be asked to default or leave. This is the rules of the league.
Some players appreciate the ball being sent back to them so that they can practice a few more, while not returning signals that you would now like to practice your serves.

Are you saying that returning serves during warm-up is disallowed by USTA rules or the Code?
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#33
Cindy always writes her posts in such a way that if you pick a portion of it, it can be interpreted in a prurient manner. I don't know if she does it on purpose or not.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#34
this makes no sense. Warm up return has to be hit so you don't disrupt the server ???????? LOL. That is not true, you are warming up the return so that you can return the Guy's serve better in the match. You are only doing it to gain advantage. That is called poor sportsmanship. WOW
It is easier in singles when you just return to the other court. In doubles, you have to return back to the server and that might disturb him. I see what you are getting at.
 
#35
I’m wondering whether there is a preferred way to handle the warm up in mixed.

I usually play the deuce court. Often the player opposite me during warmups is the opposing man. If I warm up with him, I will get a chance to experience his faster-paced and heavier ball, which could help me get used to it during the match. On the other hand, he will get to see that I cannot handle his ball very well.

Sometimes I have switched over to the ad side for the warm-up to warm up with the opposing woman (so the men warm up with one another). This has the advantage of my being able to evaluate her style, which will help me decide how to play to her.

What do you think? Is it better to have the genders warm up against one another, or just have players warm up on the side they will receive on during the match?
i always insist my mixed partner warmup with the guy... guess what, in most mixed cases, the female is getting picked on anyway, there's no "hiding" that you can't handle his ball... in 9.0, as the 4.5M going against a 4.5F, i know most won't be able to stay in a baseline rally with me. IMO experience a 4.5F is ~4.0M at best (sandbagging aside)... very rarely do i play against a 5.0F+4.0M pairing... usually it's 5.0M+4.0F (3.5M equiv)

ironically, when i do the 10m warmup prior to a match... i've already "warmed up for an hour"... so the 10m warmup is me usually just practicing bh's... sometimes leading folks to believe that my fh is weak because i was running around the fh all the time in the 10m warmup.
 
#38
This is a long discussion for a fairly perfunctory part of rec tennis. Are we seriously already competing when we're warming up.
If it's a competitive match against a team whose game I don't know, then yes, I'm going to be observing my opponents.

Its warm up. Worry more about loosening up and warming up your muscles and less about what's going on with the opponent.
Loosening up requires little conscious thought. I spend my energy trying to glean clues about my opponents. Straight out of *Winning Ugly*.

Most of us come to the court from our cars cold as ice.
Which is why I try to do 30 minutes of warmup prior to the official warmup; I can't warm up in 5 minutes.
 
#39
If it's a competitive match against a team whose game I don't know, then yes, I'm going to be observing my opponents.



Loosening up requires little conscious thought. I spend my energy trying to glean clues about my opponents. Straight out of *Winning Ugly*.



Which is why I try to do 30 minutes of warmup prior to the official warmup; I can't warm up in 5 minutes.
I'd agree if it was a tourney or playoff match. But many of my league matches start right after work and its a rush just to get there in time. And at my age i need to consciously focus on warming up. But ideally I get to a match a bit early to actually warm up. Then you can try to get insight.

But I'll be darned if I've ever gleaned much more than, "man he has a nice serve"
 
#40
Boy, I think I glean a lot from my opponents in their warm-up. Maybe this is level-dependent, in that at the lower levels you can spot glaring deficiencies and tendencies. I think better players treat the warm up as a warm-up, so you don't see their real strokes in warm-up.

For example, if I see a frying pan grip in warm-up, I know I will be seeing a hard, flat first serve and push second serve. In women's tennis, this means the first serve will often be low and won't have spin that I need to worry about. For the second, it is important to move up so as not to be caught by a short dink serve.

I can also tell whether the person has penetrating volleys or not. If not, I know to anticipate that their volleys will be short.

Those are just a few examples.
 
#41
For example, if I see a frying pan grip in warm-up, I know I will be seeing a hard, flat first serve and push second serve. In women's tennis, this means the first serve will often be low and won't have spin that I need to worry about. For the second, it is important to move up so as not to be caught by a short dink serve.
Do women hit serves with anything other than a frying pan grip? I mean even the ones that swear they are hitting continental seem to have a frying pan grip. I think all the way up to 4.5 the frying pan grip is predominant in 90% of women.

What I'm looking for is "when he's hitting a kicker does he throw the ball further over his head than when he's hitting his flat serve" That way i know from the toss what serve is coming. The rest of a warmup generally means little to how people play since doubles is positioning and strategy mores that stroke quality.
 
#44
Do women hit serves with anything other than a frying pan grip? I mean even the ones that swear they are hitting continental seem to have a frying pan grip. I think all the way up to 4.5 the frying pan grip is predominant in 90% of women.
Yeah even a 4.5 woman at my club who places in the top and has her name come out in the local newsletters uses a pancake grip.

Is it because that coaches never correct this in women or is there an anatomical reason which makes sideways stance difficult?
 
#45
Yeah even a 4.5 woman at my club who places in the top and has her name come out in the local newsletters uses a pancake grip.

Is it because that coaches never correct this in women or is there an anatomical reason which makes sideways stance difficult?
I think it is because coaches don't tend to correct it, especially if the woman is taking up tennis later in life as opposed to starting playing as a kid/teen. There is no female specific anatomical/physiological prohibition from a sideways stance/continental grip, non-waiter's tray serve.
 
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#47
I think it is because coaches don't tend to correct it, especially if the woman is taking up tennis later in life as opposed to starting playing as a kid/teen. There is no female specific anatomical/physiological prohibition from a sideways stance/continental grip, non-waiter's tray serve.
Other than the fact that few of them grew up throwing a football.
 
#48
Other than the fact that few of them grew up throwing a football.
OK sure, but that's not really physiological, and not biologically female specific in any way, nor is it critical to learning to serve a non-WT serve - it's a great training tool, but not the only way to get there... I'm sure you're familiar with the sock drill... and since my wife had no experience throwing a football or baseball before she took up tennis, I helped her to break away from the WT serve with the sock drill and using the analogy of throwing a hatchet (which she'd never done, but could very well imagine).
 
#50
OK sure, but that's not really physiological, and not biologically female specific in any way, nor is it critical to learning to serve a non-WT serve - it's a great training tool, but not the only way to get there... I'm sure you're familiar with the sock drill... and since my wife had no experience throwing a football or baseball before she took up tennis, I helped her to break away from the WT serve with the sock drill and using the analogy of throwing a hatchet (which she'd never done, but could very well imagine).
There is one physiological difference that could be in play: The geometry of a woman's more narrow shoulders could be a factor.

(And height to a lesser extent in some service motions like a true kick serve perhaps.)

I serve fully sideways to the court because that is what has always felt natural to me and for no other reason ..... but when asked by teammates on how to correct their dink serve ... none will even move to diagonal much less sideways to the baseline ....

Your being able to get our wife to change is pretty impressive to me.
 
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