The modern tennis forehand teaching ways may not be so natural as you thought

acintya

Hall of Fame
#1
I will ask you something.

Without videos.

How do you throw a ball?

Do you do a circle motion? NO YOU DONT (teached by manny coaches)

Do you do a U-motion? NO YOU DONT (teched by manny coaches)

Do you do a number 8 motion and lead with the ELBOW. YES - YO DO. (teached by not so manny coaches)

Yes - manny coaches say - raise the elbow - but its not the same.

So maybe this all new online courses are not good for you. Maybe Federer can do the circle or U or circle motion but he does like 1000 repetitions a day. DO YOU? I beg you, try to lead with your elbow - it is a more natural way of hitting - but it may be not the most compact or fast way.

Want examples: Borg, Sampras, Lendl, Kachanov, Kyrgios, Sock as far I know.

Research and look at the motions of the old guys. Just wanna help and give you a different perspective. I may be wrong but I think I am not.
Why? Because I am sad all this online coaches sometimes teach the forehand so detailed as they would build a space rocket - but the results sometimes are unnatural.
Do not complicate too much - try to feel it.
 

Dragy

Professional
#2
I will ask you something.

Without videos.

How do you throw a ball?

Do you do a circle motion? NO YOU DONT (teached by manny coaches)

Do you do a U-motion? NO YOU DONT (teched by manny coaches)

Do you do a number 8 motion and lead with the ELBOW. YES - YO DO. (teached by not so manny coaches)

Yes - manny coaches say - raise the elbow - but its not the same.

So maybe this all new online courses are not good for you. Maybe Federer can do the circle or U or circle motion but he does like 1000 repetitions a day. DO YOU? I beg you, try to lead with your elbow - it is a more natural way of hitting - but it may be not the most compact or fast way.

Want examples: Borg, Sampras, Lendl, Kachanov, Kyrgios, Sock as far I know.

Research and look at the motions of the old guys. Just wanna help and give you a different perspective. I may be wrong but I think I am not.
Why? Because I am sad all this online coaches sometimes teach the forehand so detailed as they would build a space rocket - but the results sometimes are unnatural.
Do not complicate too much - try to feel it.
Why you equate modern teaching ways with online courses? They are irrelevant. Modern teaching covers multiple aspects/components of proper mechanics, addresses them in sequence and combination, resolves particular issues for particular players. Bases on deliberate practice, controlled repetition.
Now every time you hear a "one thing that will tremenduosly improve your FH" addressed to undetermined youtube auditory, it's nothing but bad marketing. Even though the tip itself might appear useful for particular players with particular issues.
Have you tried throwing a 350g projectile to begin with? Handball ball will do, women's one. Men's one is not that far away as well. They start some sidearming at 4:10:
 
#3
I am using an old technique. and I am hitting very flat...and my coach always want me to hit the ball open stance ....a big challenge for me to change :( (I am using eastern grip).Now I try to hit open stance but the ball always hit the net...any help plz
 

Dragy

Professional
#4
I am using an old technique. and I am hitting very flat...and my coach always want me to hit the ball open stance ....a big challenge for me to change :( (I am using eastern grip).Now I try to hit open stance but the ball always hit the net...any help plz
Why not ask your coach?
The rule of thumb is if you hit the net while making clean contact, you need to get your racquet head lower under the ball.

But it's after you get a generally sound form for your stroke.
 
#5
Why not ask your coach?
The rule of thumb is if you hit the net while making clean contact, you need to get your racquet head lower under the ball.

But it's after you get a generally sound form for your stroke.
Is it okay if i'm using A CLOSED STANCE......am i going 2 be slow....
 

Dragy

Professional
#6
Is it okay if i'm using A CLOSED STANCE......am i going 2 be slow....
Some guys incoming who will induce you to run from here and never come back but work with your coach. They have some truth.

I just gave the most basic tip regarding hitting the net. If you want best piece of advise possible online, video your strokes and post into separate thread. There could be lost of issues, and it's hard to guess what's exactly wrong with your forehands.
 
#7
Some guys incoming who will induce you to run from here and never come back but work with your coach. They have some truth.

I just gave the most basic tip regarding hitting the net. If you want best piece of advise possible online, video your strokes and post into separate thread. There could be lost of issues, and it's hard to guess what's exactly wrong with your forehands.
So sad...and I am having school evryday and I only got the opportunity to practice on a certain day....my time is not fixed...and now i only play with some players :(
 

Dragy

Professional
#8
So sad...and I am having school evryday and I only got the opportunity to practice on a certain day....my time is not fixed...and now i only play with some players :(
Cmon man, I'm just trying to say it's a bit complicated. You want a solution - put in some data. If you meet a coach personally he looks at your strokes and sees everything from how you move, how you prepare through how you swing and hit the ball and to how the ball flies and where it lands. It's ton of information, every piece of which is important. You can describe something in written like "I hit the net a lot", but there's also lots of what even you don't know, as you don't have a sideview on yourself. So how you want some random internet people get into detail with your strokes?
I really believe nothing better than life coaching and practice for you. This place is den of adult and aging nerds who possibly enjoy reading and discussing tennis more than playing, or at least have more access to discussing than they have to actually playing. It's not bad in general, but not the best way to go through your tennis journey as a young man.
 

ChaelAZ

Hall of Fame
#12
I will ask you something.

Without videos.

How do you throw a ball?

Do you do a circle motion? NO YOU DONT (teached by manny coaches)

Do you do a U-motion? NO YOU DONT (teched by manny coaches)

Do you do a number 8 motion and lead with the ELBOW. YES - YO DO. (teached by not so manny coaches)
Baseball pitch raises the elbow on the takeback, does and upward circle (C path) and uses shoulder rotation to get the elbow forward and create downward momentum and spin. The same key points of the mechanics of a tennis swing but inverted essentially. Not sure you have watched throwing in slow motion. Or maybe I am missing what your piont is. We could post every slow motion pictching video or even most throwing videos and see that inverse C motion.
 

ChaelAZ

Hall of Fame
#14
Baseball pitch raises the elbow on the takeback, does and upward circle (C path) and uses shoulder rotation to get the elbow forward and create downward momentum and spin. The same key points of the mechanics of a tennis swing but inverted essentially. Not sure you have watched throwing in slow motion. Or maybe I am missing what your piont is. We could post every slow motion pictching video or even most throwing videos and see that inverse C motion.

Interestingly, I was just watching a bunch of slow motion pitching and I bet if you turned the video upside down and compared it with a tennis stroke the mechanics would be pretty dang close. Might have to do that! Neat observation..love video.
 
#15
Baseball pitch raises the elbow on the takeback, does and upward circle (C path) and uses shoulder rotation to get the elbow forward and create downward momentum and spin. The same key points of the mechanics of a tennis swing but inverted essentially. Not sure you have watched throwing in slow motion. Or maybe I am missing what your piont is. We could post every slow motion pictching video or even most throwing videos and see that inverse C motion.
I think you would be just one of many to miss his point. Why? Because the natural way to throw for most people is to throw with their arm but that’s not the best way. Doing what’s natural isn’t always the best way. If we were to hit forehands doing what’s natural, we would all be hitting them with the nipples facing the net with a frying pan grip! :)
 
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acintya

Hall of Fame
#18
Baseball pitch raises the elbow on the takeback, does and upward circle (C path) and uses shoulder rotation to get the elbow forward and create downward momentum and spin. The same key points of the mechanics of a tennis swing but inverted essentially. Not sure you have watched throwing in slow motion. Or maybe I am missing what your piont is. We could post every slow motion pictching video or even most throwing videos and see that inverse C motion.
you are right and i have been misunderstood. I just wanted to say, tennis coaches should teach what you just said first with a ball, but instead they are explaining tennis to young kids with so much words that the kids do not have an idea what they are talking about.

hope it is not a useless topic and everybody will learn something here. I am not saying the whole world hits wrong, i just wanted to say I dont like the teaching ways of most coaches.

my point beeing -> turn off the "TV" and go practice. And I wanted to help those who have problems with the forehand to focus more on the ELBOW - and lead with the elbow. It could change their life :D (if tennis does mean much to them)
 
#20
I am using an old technique. and I am hitting very flat...and my coach always want me to hit the ball open stance ....a big challenge for me to change :( (I am using eastern grip).Now I try to hit open stance but the ball always hit the net...any help plz
You don't need to post your own video. Simply post a clip of any pro that you like and wanna mimic, and ask which part you do not understand. Some people here can help you. Once you understand everything, you should be able to do it. Of course, most people can do any action if it slows down enough.

Hitting a simple FH stroke slowly isn't difficult at all.

Hitting it in a fast pace game, with variety of height and depth, is difficult.
 

ChaelAZ

Hall of Fame
#21
Doing what’s natural isn’t always the best way. If we were to hit forehands doing what’s natural, we would all be hitting them with the nipples facing the net with a frying pan grip! :)
Too true. When I work with kids that are just learning and I ask them to swing a forehand, it is a very simple pendullum swing - back then forward. Or more actually are preconditioned to swing like a dang baseball bat. But rotation and get an elbow foreward with lag has never been something demonstrates as a natural swing.
 

Kevo

Hall of Fame
#22
you are right and i have been misunderstood. I just wanted to say, tennis coaches should teach what you just said first with a ball, but instead they are explaining tennis to young kids with so much words that the kids do not have an idea what they are talking about.
I tend to think of myself as a wordy coach, but I think it's because the kids have no idea what I am showing them. A minority of the kids I have worked with are natural hitters. The rest seem to be refugees from other sports.

Regardless, I don't think what you are saying is accurate. I've been through the certification process and I think most coaches generally follow the idea of progressions. Breaking down strokes into steps which build on each other. I usually show the kids first. That normally doesn't quite get us there so I repeat with more explanation as necessary. From there it's usually a pretty quick trip into a decent stroke. The real problem for me is that most of the kids I work with only get a chance at a lesson once or twice a week at most. And most kids aren't disciplined and focused enough to maintain the technique without supervision. So it's basically a back and forth slow progression. A lot of the natural athletes around here get scooped up early by soccer, football, or baseball.
 
#23
Too true. When I work with kids that are just learning and I ask them to swing a forehand, it is a very simple pendullum swing - back then forward. Or more actually are preconditioned to swing like a dang baseball bat. But rotation and get an elbow foreward with lag has never been something demonstrates as a natural swing.
I think the only natural thing that exists without learning is to suck on a nipple. You just shove a nipple into a newborn's mouth on day 1 and the newborn just knows what to do! Beyond that nothing else is natural. Even taking a dump has to be trained (heard of potty training?) LOL


So, really, drop all this talk about what is natural.

You virtually need to learn everything before you can do it.
 
#24
I will ask you something.

Without videos.

Research and look at the motions of the old guys. Just wanna help and give you a different perspective. I may be wrong but I think I am not.
Why? Because I am sad all this online coaches sometimes teach the forehand so detailed as they would build a space rocket - but the results sometimes are unnatural.
Do not complicate too much - try to feel it.
There are very few coaches, online or not, who understand the modern stroke and it's many variants very well, so you are right, what they teach is often unnatural and confusing. But that isn't what is wrong with the stroke, as it is instead, what is wrong with instruction.
 

ChaelAZ

Hall of Fame
#25
I think the only natural thing that exists without learning is to suck on a nipple. You just shove a nipple into a newborn's mouth on day 1 and the newborn just knows what to do! Beyond that nothing else is natural. Even taking a dump has to be trained (heard of potty training?) LOL


So, really, drop all this talk about what is natural.

You virtually need to learn everything before you can do it.
I can only assume you have never given a kid a racquet and told them to swing...or had kids for potty training. There are certainly innate actions for everything. Not all exactly the same, and definitely not something optimal to maximize angularity of blah blah blah...but come'on...
 
#27
I can only assume you have never given a kid a racquet and told them to swing...or had kids for potty training. There are certainly innate actions for everything. Not all exactly the same, and definitely not something optimal to maximize angularity of blah blah blah...but come'on...
I had given my very young nephew a racket and he swung like crap.
I am a dad so I know about potty training.

Again, you need to learn almost everything.
 
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