The most difficult shot 'in the book'

B

BTURNER

Legend
Forgive my ignorance. I am not much of a player at all with virtually no match experience outside a public court match here and there. so every shot is the hardest one for me to hit right if I am obliged to hit one. So I have to ask this question of others who actually play a lot. Over the years, I have heard the 'play by play' commentator talk about the toughest shot to hit there is, usually lauding an example played under pressure, but they are not consistent about what that shot is. The matches I have listened to span both wood racket years, and graphite racket years, and the opinions are not the same for both.

I have heard that the half-volley is the toughest one , or the offensive lob, or the lob-volley ( Dan Maskell) or the reflex volley off a ball aimed the stomach or hip, or the backhand overhead, or the drop shot, each described as one of the most or the most difficult to pull off, so I am asking you guys, which of these is really the toughest shot for pros to produce, or yourselves. which impress you guys the most when well executed in a pressure moment. Are there other nominees?
 
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It impresses me if you don't actually get to a pressure moment. When I watch a match, more than the result of the point, what impresses me is who really was in control of the point, and how did he/she get to that. Yea, it is good to see some defensive winners, especially if it is from one of my favourite pro. I do enjoy them (entertainment factor), but does not impress me, since mostly it does struck to me as a "do or die" all-in attempt, and a lot of luck.

That being said, I think hitting an "assertive" backhand overhead is a very difficult shot for me (not sure most difficult).

BTURNER said:
which impress you guys the most when well executed in a pressure moment
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I've always heard from commentators and clubbies alike that the backhand overhead is the "toughest shot" in tennis--in all due modesty, I hit it really well and don't think it's that big of a deal.

I think the hardest serves to hit are the wide one to the ad side, and the flat serve to the T on the deuce side. Then again, the approach sliced deep down the line, within a six inches of the baseline, at the opponent's feet, forcing them to hit up is a thing of beauty, setting up the angled volley for a winner.

Along with, any shot that you have too much time to hit, is also the "hardest shot".
 
I guess you have to define "hard."

Sure, it is difficult to serve *well.* But it is not difficult to serve -- 3.0 player can serve.

I guess I would define "hard" at the rec level is a shot that few rec players can execute at all under match conditionswith any level of consistency.

By that definition, I would nominate the BH overhead aimed DTL. I say this because it is not possible to hit this shot at all if you have a 2HBH volley, which eliminates a lot of rec players.

Then, if you are athletic enough to hit it, it usually goes cross-court. So managing it without framing it or tipping it and getting it to go DTL is quite hard.
 
tennis tom said:
I've always heard from commentators and clubbies alike that the backhand overhead is the "toughest shot" in tennis--in all due modesty, I hit it really well and don't think it's that big of a deal.

".
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@tennis tom I'm right there with you .. actively enjoy this shot ... doesn't hurt that people say I look good doing it (and even point my toes for some reason)

Hardest shot ... it is the one I missed (bah dum dum) no really folks, don't forget to try the veal and tip your server ...

In more seriousness, if we go with a shot that is most often missed on the pro and rec level it is a neutral ball to the fh ... player both pro and rec tries to do too much with it and dumps it in the net.

If we go with a shot that is most difficult to execute ... from my personal vantage point, a chip lob. yeah, can't do this to save my life. Can do a TS lob, a defensive lob, a swinging volley lob ... (for those of you following my journey, yes, I made my goal and worked hard!) ... chip lob with back spin? nope. Impossible.
 
Morch Us said:
It impresses me if you don't actually get to a pressure moment. When I watch a match, more than the result of the point, what impresses me is who really was in control of the point, and how did he/she get to that. Yea, it is good to see some defensive winners, especially if it is from one of my favourite pro. I do enjoy them (entertainment factor), but does not impress me, since mostly it does struck to me as a "do or die" all-in attempt, and a lot of luck.

That being said, I think hitting an "assertive" backhand overhead is a very difficult shot for me (not sure most difficult).
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very well said sir.

my vote also goes for the back-hand overhead, seconded by the high backhand volley which looks deceptively accessible/doable.

You'll also note that Federer many many times when facing a player rushing to the net will ask that question: "handle this high back-hand volley... let see how you do..."
 
On a tournament? Has to be the tweener, i can get that in practice all day long, but only a couple of times successfully with the pressure and all that stuff
 
Cindysphinx said:
Then, if you are athletic enough to hit it, it usually goes cross-court. So managing it without framing it or tipping it and getting it to go DTL is quite hard.
Click to expand...

I'll sometimes go DTL only because I sense my opponent is moving to cover CC. My shot does not even have to be very good; just a block back deep can be enough for a winner because my opponent can't reverse in time.

I usually hit my BH OHs either too CC or into the net. Something must not be calibrated correctly. One more thing to add to the practice list.
 
OnTheLine said:
If we go with a shot that is most difficult to execute ... from my personal vantage point, a chip lob. yeah, can't do this to save my life. Can do a TS lob, a defensive lob, a swinging volley lob ... (for those of you following my journey, yes, I made my goal and worked hard!) ... chip lob with back spin? nope. Impossible.
Click to expand...

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - I. Montoya.

What happens when you attempt this shot? The arc is too flat and either your opponent can reach it or it does long? The arc is too sharp and allows your opponent to back up and hit an OH/high volley?

Here are the variables I consider:
- court position [the further back he is, the less likely I'm going to try the chip lob]
- balance [if he's leaning or even moving forward [ie after he hits an offensive volley], I'm more likely to try]
- contact point [if you only try to hit this shot out of desperation, you'll get skewed [read: "poor"] results; try also when you're on the offensive]

It's a touch shot for sure. Here's a practice progression:

- Drop feed and chip lob. Most important is getting the arc sharp enough to get past the net person. This is initially even more important than hitting it in [vs long]. Get comfortable with the arc and if you're hitting long, start making small adjustments

- Have someone at net feed you. Have them not try for the ball; just feed. Note the height and depth.

- Play out points where you mix in driving shots at the net person and chip lobbing

I find it especially useful when both opponents are at net because they typically are looking to close, especially when I have to hit up on my volley. A well-timed chipper can really disrupt them.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
There's also the "fear factor" [at least for a guy] of botching a tweener that's absent with the BH OH...
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Absolutely! You need to have such great body control. 9/10 times when I think I'm going to attempt the tweener I back out at the last moment. And the remaining time I just botch it up.
 
AlxThm said:
On a tournament? Has to be the tweener, i can get that in practice all day long, but only a couple of times successfully with the pressure and all that stuff
Click to expand...
OrangePower said:
Another vote for the tweener. I have managed to pull off every other shot in a match, but never a proper tweener.
Click to expand...

Speaking of tweeners, take a look at this:
meltphace 6 said:
35 in one rally (I'm the guy who made the error goddammit) :p

http://preview.tinyurl.com/kmzoy3n
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https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/how-to-hit-the-tweener.37481/#post-11084411
 
OrangePower said:
Great stuff!

Maybe it's like juggling... hilariously impossible at first, but once you get the knack of it, something clicks and then it's not that hard.
Obviously, I've never gotten the knack of it :p
Click to expand...

Yeah, but when you make a mistake in juggling you pick up your balls and start over. When you make a mistake with a tweener, you pick up your balls and try to look casual.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - I. Montoya.

What happens when you attempt this shot? The arc is too flat and either your opponent can reach it or it does long? The arc is too sharp and allows your opponent to back up and hit an OH/high volley?

Here are the variables I consider:
- court position [the further back he is, the less likely I'm going to try the chip lob]
- balance [if he's leaning or even moving forward [ie after he hits an offensive volley], I'm more likely to try]
- contact point [if you only try to hit this shot out of desperation, you'll get skewed [read: "poor"] results; try also when you're on the offensive]

It's a touch shot for sure. Here's a practice progression:

- Drop feed and chip lob. Most important is getting the arc sharp enough to get past the net person. This is initially even more important than hitting it in [vs long]. Get comfortable with the arc and if you're hitting long, start making small adjustments

- Have someone at net feed you. Have them not try for the ball; just feed. Note the height and depth.

- Play out points where you mix in driving shots at the net person and chip lobbing

I find it especially useful when both opponents are at net because they typically are looking to close, especially when I have to hit up on my volley. A well-timed chipper can really disrupt them.
Click to expand...

Awesome suggestions, thank you .... I will absolutely work on the progression you layed out here.

On the chip lob (back spin) arc too flat OR not enough depth ... it is like handing a sitter to my opponent(s).

I am much more comfortable with a ts lob ... or my YOLO ball of glory sky ball lob.
 
BTURNER said:
Forgive my ignorance. I am not much of a player at all with virtually no match experience outside a public court match here and there. so every shot is the hardest one for me to hit right if I am obliged to hit one. So I have to ask this question of others who actually play a lot. Over the years, I have heard the 'play by play' commentator talk about the toughest shot to hit there is, usually lauding an example played under pressure, but they are not consistent about what that shot is. The matches I have listened to span both wood racket years, and graphite racket years, and the opinions are not the same for both.

I have heard that the half-volley is the toughest one , or the offensive lob, or the lob-volley ( Dan Maskell) or the reflex volley off a ball aimed the stomach or hip, or the backhand overhead, or the drop shot, each described as one of the most or the most difficult to pull off, so I am asking you guys, which of these is really the toughest shot for pros to produce, or yourselves. which impress you guys the most when well executed in a pressure moment. Are there other nominees?
Click to expand...

KICK SERVE !!!!
Most 5.0 guys cannot master that shot
 
I saw 2 Division College players today and neither one had a kick serve !!!!
So if they cannot do it then someone like me has zero shot

Kick serve is the like the spinning back heel kick of MArtial Arts
 
dgold44 said:
I saw 2 Division College players today and neither one had a kick serve !!!!
So if they cannot do it then someone like me has zero shot

Kick serve is the like the spinning back heel kick of MArtial Arts
Click to expand...

Do 15 years of yoga back-bending workshops and you'll be there in no time.
 
BTURNER said:
Forgive my ignorance. I am not much of a player at all with virtually no match experience outside a public court match here and there. so every shot is the hardest one for me to hit right if I am obliged to hit one. So I have to ask this question of others who actually play a lot. Over the years, I have heard the 'play by play' commentator talk about the toughest shot to hit there is, usually lauding an example played under pressure, but they are not consistent about what that shot is. The matches I have listened to span both wood racket years, and graphite racket years, and the opinions are not the same for both.

I have heard that the half-volley is the toughest one , or the offensive lob, or the lob-volley ( Dan Maskell) or the reflex volley off a ball aimed the stomach or hip, or the backhand overhead, or the drop shot, each described as one of the most or the most difficult to pull off, so I am asking you guys, which of these is really the toughest shot for pros to produce, or yourselves. which impress you guys the most when well executed in a pressure moment. Are there other nominees?
Click to expand...

I think the ohbh down the line changing the direction is the hardest to hit, I'm interested to see what the others think after I post this. :)
 
Next time you play doubles against a right hander at the net, drill a hard forehand straight at his right nipple. (or left nipple for a left hander, lets not be prejudice against those who are athletically challenged).

Goddam hardest place to get a racquet to in a split second and hit a shot when your at the net, never mind an effective shot. Overhead backhand smash is a piece of cake by comparison!
 
Hardest shot? Non-dominant hand tweener squash shot through two guys at the net for a clean winner in the opposite back corner with so much pace it bounces once and sticks in the fence.
 
Zoolander said:
Next time you play doubles against a right hander at the net, drill a hard forehand straight at his right nipple. (or left nipple for a left hander, lets not be prejudice against those who are athletically challenged).

Goddam hardest place to get a racquet to in a split second and hit a shot when your at the net, never mind an effective shot. Overhead backhand smash is a piece of cake by comparison!
Click to expand...

I think the dominant hip is even more difficult.

But both are assuming I hit a FH; if I can manage to hit a BH instead, it becomes easier.
 
Hydrocella said:
I'd have to go with the rarely seen SMASH on SMASH - I can't fathom the sort of crazy timing/spin/coordination needed to go for a winner from that position:
Click to expand...
Yeah that's crazy. But it's Federer, so...
First clip also reminds me how much I miss Roddick. Great reaction.
 
jaxadam said:
Hardest shot? Non-dominant hand tweener squash shot through two guys at the net for a clean winner in the opposite back corner with so much pace it bounces once and sticks in the fence.
Click to expand...
Come on, really?

It only counts if it goes through the fence.
 
OrangePower said:
Yeah that's crazy. But it's Federer, so...
First clip also reminds me how much I miss Roddick. Great reaction.
Click to expand...

Me too. Roddick was one of the best personalities on tour. That 2009 Wimbledon loss must have gutted him. I’m a Fed Fan but I think he could’ve been more emphathetic during the trophy presentation.
 
I might define “hardest shot to hit” as the shot I least-frequently see in situations where it would be the ideal shot to hit - and for that I nominate the lob volley. I see lots of BH overheads when it’s the right shot to try, even DTL, but almost never see the lob volley even attempted below the 4.5 level even when it’d be the perfect time for it. The tweeter is almost never the most strategic shot to hit so it wouldn’t qualify in my book.
 
NumbersGuy said:
I might define “hardest shot to hit” as the shot I least-frequently see in situations where it would be the ideal shot to hit - and for that I nominate the lob volley. I see lots of BH overheads when it’s the right shot to try, even DTL, but almost never see the lob volley even attempted below the 4.5 level even when it’d be the perfect time for it. The tweeter is almost never the most strategic shot to hit so it wouldn’t qualify in my book.
Click to expand...

I think that's because when someone has a chance to hit a volley, their first thought is to be aggressive by hitting it with extra pace. The lob volley is a touch shot but, while it's not hit with a lot of pace, a well-placed one can be very effective.
 
Agreed, but I’m talking about When the ball is not high enough to hit a particularly aggressive put away (a frequent occurrence), and a well executed lob volley would likely win the point, but almost nobody below 4.5 even tries it, for good reason. A whole lot of downside to a poorly executed one of course! But to me that’s part and parcel of “hardest to hit”.
 
Hydrocella said:
I'd have to go with the rarely seen SMASH on SMASH - I can't fathom the sort of crazy timing/spin/coordination needed to go for a winner from that position:

Click to expand...
I asked about tennis players playing the game, not gods masking as tennis players. I had never seen or heard of that shot before. If you did not supply visual evidence.....
 
BTURNER said:
I asked about tennis players playing the game, not gods masking as tennis players.
Click to expand...


Apologies. Got my posts muddled up.

Everyone was blathering on about The Church of Federer - it was already tricky when Van Gogh and submarines were mentioned but as the conversation slipped into the quantum nature of Art itself I seem to have momentarily lost my mind.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...igious-experience.606925/page-2#post-11881680

It’s a whole different day now. Wait, a whole different year. I am sitting at a questionable roadside restaurant in a noisy part of Thailand attempting to retrace my steps as to how I ended up here.
 
I was playing doubles yesterday and a guy hit a successful tweener after my partner lobbed him, except that it came right back to me at net. I kind of felt bad about putting away an easy volley off a shot like that.
 
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