The Myth of Teaching Tennis Technique

[Shroud]

But if you look at strings after a couple of hours of play, they have generally been displaced in some way. Mine are arched towards the tip of the head. If they snapped back, why do players have to keep adjusting their strings all the time to make them parallel in a straight line?

after a while they stop snapping back as friction builds up. Only string combo that snaps back the whole time till it breaks is kevlar/ monogutzx

 

[Dragy]

after a while they stop snapping back as friction builds up. Only string combo that snaps back the whole time till it breaks is kevlar/ monogutzx

“Till it breaks” depends on how long it takes for you to break. But up to 20 hours my poly still snap back and don’t stay displaced. They lock down and don’t move as well - that’s more of an issue.

 

[sureshs]

“Till it breaks” depends on how long it takes for you to break. But up to 20 hours my poly still snap back and don’t stay displaced. They lock down and don’t move as well - that’s more of an issue.

My Gamma Poly Z 17 (cheapest poly on TW) starts arching at once. Is it because I hit with massive topspin?

 

[Dragy]

My Gamma Poly Z 17 (cheapest poly on TW) starts arching at once. Is it because I hit with massive topspin?

Yes your massive topspin curves the time-space at the moment of impact, strings snap back into that curve shaped gaps in reality, and stay so after the balance is restored.

 

[Shroud]

“Till it breaks” depends on how long it takes for you to break. But up to 20 hours my poly still snap back and don’t stay displaced. They lock down and don’t move as well - that’s more of an issue.

thats a lot. Kevlar will last longer.

 

[Dragy]

thats a lot. Kevlar will last longer.

Yeah, likely, but how will my elbow do with kevlar, which stays there for so long?

Anyway, I’m happy to restring after 12-15 hours. I’m not an addict for fresh strings, but there’s some period of great playability which I prefer. Once it’s past, I get it cut and restrung.

 

[Shroud]

Yeah, likely, but how will my elbow do with kevlar, which stays there for so long?

Anyway, I’m happy to restring after 12-15 hours. I’m not an addict for fresh strings, but there’s some period of great playability which I prefer. Once it’s past, I get it cut and restrung.

FWIW IMHO the kevlar is arm friendly is mostly because 99% of the kevlar experiences feature a LOCKED stringbed and its harsher. If you put it with a smooth cross and it can move at contact, its a different experience. Besides, zx is gut like softness so its softer than it sounds. But sure if you are ok restringing then go for it.

 

[Elite Tennis Barcelona]

I love your approach to learning tennis. I'll try it out with my kid who is just starting. I'll think of some games to get him to instinctively learn these things on his own.

Reminds me of my high school calculus teacher. We did use a book at all for the 1st semester. Instead we had discussions and he presented problems to us to solve. We broke up into groups of 2-3 people and then would work on solutions. Every few days or a week, each group would present their solution to the class and the class would discuss whether it would work or not. It was one of the best math classes I have ever had. We derived many of basic foundations of calculus from a real-world point of view and it stuck in all our minds.

How can this be applied to an adult? For example, my spacing on my forehand tends to be too cramped, and sometimes my contact is a little late and my wrist/hands gets too far ahead of my elbow. I'd also like to improve my footwork so that I can take more balls in my comfort zone. (waist to shoulder height).

Hello, sorry for the late reply. Here you have some videos to develop the shot without instruction.
Nº1

Nº 2

Nº 3

Nº 4

Doing these exercises, you will develop the swing and the distance feeling almost without any verbal instruction. If you do this with kids, they will connect the touch with the swing very fast.

 

[PistolPete23]

I am an example of your philosophy. I’m largely self-taught and agree that the focus should be the points you mentioned. My dad played and that’s how I learned the game, but he never gave me specific instruction on follow through, brush up on ball, low to high, etc. He used a continental grip and I naturally adopted strong Eastern. I naturally developed the correct mechanics from playing and watching tennis, and eventually reached a level that was decent for a “club” player. BUT, I am of the opinion that while technique should not be overly emphasized, players do sometimes develop weird inefficiencies and hitches in their stroke mechanics, and having a good coach who can point out those issues without over-teaching is greatly beneficial to the developing player. At the age of 38, I myself just recently started recording my practices on video, and was able to analyze and make adjustments to my technique that I wasn’t even aware needed adjustment before seeing myself hit the ball. For example, I had always thought my arm was pretty straight when hitting the OHBH, but the video showed I had a tendency to bend it at the end of the follow through. After correcting, my backhand became more consistent. So IMO, both the development of mechanics using the body’s natural intelligence as well as instruction are needed, with the former being prioritized.

 

[Elite Tennis Barcelona]

I am an example of your philosophy. I’m largely self-taught and agree that the focus should be the points you mentioned. My dad played and that’s how I learned the game, but he never gave me specific instruction on follow through, brush up on ball, low to high, etc. He used a continental grip and I naturally adopted strong Eastern. I naturally developed the correct mechanics from playing and watching tennis, and eventually reached a level that was decent for a “club” player. BUT, I am of the opinion that while technique should not be overly emphasized, players do sometimes develop weird inefficiencies and hitches in their stroke mechanics, and having a good coach who can point out those issues without over-teaching is greatly beneficial to the developing player. At the age of 38, I myself just recently started recording my practices on video, and was able to analyze and make adjustments to my technique that I wasn’t even aware needed adjustment before seeing myself hit the ball. For example, I had always thought my arm was pretty straight when hitting the OHBH, but the video showed I had a tendency to bend it at the end of the follow through. After correcting, my backhand became more consistent. So IMO, both the development of mechanics using the body’s natural intelligence as well as instruction are needed, with the former being prioritized.

Hello, thanks for participating. It is interesting what you wrote, and at the same time confirms what I say. You developed your tennis "From" self-awareness, you build your shots layer by layer, like an onion. From continental, you naturally moved to eastern and i m very sure that you can come back to eastern easelly. and maybe you manage different grips for different shots (like high balls with a semi-western). I'm also pretty sure your "feedback" capacity is good or very good, I mean, most of the time you know what you did well or wrong and adjust according to that. Your body is clever and adaptable and able to absorb new simple tips because the "self-awareness.
The other aspect of your message is that you mentioned that you recorded on video then ... you "saw" your shots, which was not an instruction was an "Image", "a movie" or maybe a "Feeling" all aspects that are part of the unconscious learning strategy. It is also possible that if a coach tells you something you will be able to do it because the body awareness.
Conscious manage 5 +/-2 variables per second, unconscious 11 000 000 variables per second. which operative system do you think that we have to use?
The tennis coach DOES NOT have to talk with the player's MIND, has to talk with the player's BODY. Both speak different languages... but... VERY VERY DIFFERENT.

 

[Shroud]

My Gamma Poly Z 17 (cheapest poly on TW) starts arching at once. Is it because I hit with massive topspin?

Guaranteed something on that court is massive...

 

[PistolPete23]

Hello, thanks for participating. It is interesting what you wrote, and at the same time confirms what I say. You developed your tennis "From" self-awareness, you build your shots layer by layer, like an onion. From continental, you naturally moved to eastern and i m very sure that you can come back to eastern easelly. and maybe you manage different grips for different shots (like high balls with a semi-western). I'm also pretty sure your "feedback" capacity is good or very good, I mean, most of the time you know what you did well or wrong and adjust according to that. Your body is clever and adaptable and able to absorb new simple tips because the "self-awareness.
The other aspect of your message is that you mentioned that you recorded on video then ... you "saw" your shots, which was not an instruction was an "Image", "a movie" or maybe a "Feeling" all aspects that are part of the unconscious learning strategy. It is also possible that if a coach tells you something you will be able to do it because the body awareness.
Conscious manage 5 +/-2 variables per second, unconscious 11 000 000 variables per second. which operative system do you think that we have to use?
The tennis coach DOES NOT have to talk with the player's MIND, has to talk with the player's BODY. Both speak different languages... but... VERY VERY DIFFERENT.

I think you are blurring the definition of instruction a little. It a coach tells me I’m not transferring weight from one leg to the other, and I consciously make an effort to do so, practicing until it becomes natural, is that not conscious learning? Is the coach not engaging with my mind?

 

[Elite Tennis Barcelona]

I think you are blurring the definition of instruction a little. It a coach tells me I’m not transferring weight from one leg to the other, and I consciously make an effort to do so, practicing until it becomes natural, is that not conscious learning? Is the coach not engaging with my mind?

In my opinion, the Coach's "rational" instructions have to be done just a bit above the current player's capacities.
Beyond understanding "rationally" the instruction, it is the body that has to be able to do it and apply it. If after your coach's instruction, you were able to do it almost without thinking, this mean that your body was ready for that learning (into the 5 +/-2 variables). If the instruction is too far from your body's comprehension, then you will use your conscious resources to try to apply the new skill and then, you will miss the basics: watch the ball, read the situation, and decide on the shot tactically.
I give you one "unconscious" option to adjust the body transference. Instead of telling you to transfer the body weight (rational instruction), I will suggest stimulating that skill using a medicine ball (1 or 2 kl) and transferring it to the shot. Then I'll be using body language (11 000 000 variables/sec)

 

[Chas Tennis]

High level tennis strokes are being performed using sets of specific sub-motions (as seen in video of current ATP and WTA players). That's a high level stroke technique. For high performance, an instructor has to first know the technique and also know how to teach an effective set of specific sub-motions.

Biomechanics is the science for describing tennis strokes. It uses defined joint motions, measurements, all available useful information and it changes as the strokes evolve and new things are understood.

The biomechanics of the serve was not confirmed in tennis research until 1995 when Elliott, Marshall and Noffal published on Internal Shoulder Rotation (ISR) as the most significant joint motion during the serve.

Still, even without knowing the proper biomechanics of the serve, Gussie Moran was strobe photographed by Edgerton in the 1950s using the proper ISR technique. Apparently, some rare instructor - that taught Gussie - could teach the proper unknown ISR serve biomechanics. Roscoe Tanner used ISR and so did Gerald Paterson in 1919.

Gussie Moran.

2, 3 and 6 show ISR racket motion and 5 is the location of impact.

But in 2023 - 28 years after Elliott, Marshall & Noffal's publication - most active tennis players do not understand the tennis serve. I started studying the serve in the 1970s but was totally ignorant of ISR while practicing for another 36 years. I wish I had known the serve's ISR biomechanics in the 1970s!

High speed video is especially useful for showing specific checkpoints that identify the specific sub-motions used in high level strokes.

 

[Elite Tennis Barcelona]

High level tennis strokes are being performed using sets of specific sub-motions (as seen in video of current ATP and WTA players). That's a high level stroke technique. For high performance, an instructor has to first know the technique and also know how to teach an effective set of specific sub-motions.

Biomechanics is the science for describing tennis strokes. It uses defined joint motions, measurements, all available useful information and it changes as the strokes evolve and new things are understood.

The biomechanics of the serve was not confirmed in tennis research until 1995 when Elliott, Marshall and Noffal published on Internal Shoulder Rotation (ISR) as the most significant joint motion during the serve.

Still, even without knowing the proper biomechanics of the serve, Gussie Moran was strobe photographed by Egerton in the 1950s using the proper ISR technique. Apparently, some rare instructor that taught Gussie could teach the proper unknown ISR serve biomechanics. Roscoe Tanner used ISR and so did Gerald Paterson in 1919.

But in 2023, 28 years after Elliott & Marshall's publication, most active tennis players do not understand the tennis serve. I started studying the serve in the 1970s but was totally ignorant of ISR while practicing for another 36 years. I wish I had known the serve's ISR biomechanics in the 1970s!

High speed video is especially useful for showing specific checkpoints that identify the specific sub-motions used in high level strokes.

As a coach, I always try to learn all that could help me in player development, it is necessary. At the same time, my personal goal is to download all the information that I have in an unconscious language avoiding all as I can the rational analysis.

 

[onehandbh]

Even though it may sound strange, after many years of coaching tennis, I have come to the conclusion that:




We don't need to teach technique; instead, we must develop it.




And the difference between teaching and developing is significant. All the skills required to play tennis are based on fundamental abilities such as throwing, catching, hitting (a combination of catching and throwing), and running. Therefore, there's no need to teach anything; it has all been there for hundred thousand of years. The only thing to do is to adjust these skills to the timing of the ball and monitor the evolution through the trial-and-error process: try, fail, try again, fail better.




For years, the focus of tennis coaching has been on providing children and players with technical tools to play. Personally, I was part of that large group of coaches concerned with "rotate, step, hit, followthrough."




Many players, regardless of age or level, come to my academy, attempting and succeeding in executing good technical movements but devoid of the basic tactical decision of placing the ball into the court limits. All of them have been taught the "ideal" technique, and the moment a slight variation in conditions occurs, their strokes fail to adapt, leading to collapse and loss of confidence.




On the contrary, developing strokes means nurturing them like an onion, layer by layer, going through all the necessary stages, and always adhering to four fundamental principles:




1. Vision


2. Timing


3. Touch


4. Tactics




T hese four items, although they may seem obvious, are not so in practice. Very few players master all four points. It is nearly impossible to consistently master timing if I don't watch the ball, nor can I have good touch without proper timing, and I can't make good tactical decisions without the preceding elements.




1. Vision:


Everything, absolutely everything, starts from vision. Very few players watch the ball correctly, neither when they hit nor when the opponent hits. How and where I look at the ball will determine the proper activation and organization of my legs to achieve the correct distance from the ball and establish the swing's rhythm. Some might argue that you can't see the ball at the contact point, and that's true, but you can predict when the ball will be in the ideal position. The more I try to see the ball before impact, the better the prediction, and the better the timing.




2. Timing:


It is doing something at the right moment. In tennis, it's about hitting the ball at the most opportune point for me, and that is achieved by watching the ball and choosing the moment of impact. Timing is 100% related to the quality of vision. If I look well, I choose well, and if I choose well, I have good "touch."




3. Touch:


Let's say that "touch" is the dialogue between my hand and the racket, the sensitivity to feel that I can decide to hit the ball hard or caress it gently. If I have a good touch, the ball will do what I command. Touch is the seed of technique; it just needs to grow and develop through tactics.




4. Tactics:


It is the intention, what I want the ball to do in that stroke: cross-court, down-the-line, deep, short, etc. If I change my tactical intention, then the movement will naturally be organized completely differently. If I want to hit a quick and flat shot, I will organize my movement differently from when I want to hit a topspin lob.




These four factors are, in my opinion, the most important, although there may be others.




So, how do I develop the shots technique based on these four factors? In reality, it is straightforward. If I look at the ball well, I achieve a good distance; if I achieve a good distance, I can choose/intuit (depending on the level) when to hit; if I can choose/intuit when to hit, the rhythm and swing of the arm will adjust to the tactical intention. And the followthrough? Believe me, if we do all of the above, there won't even be a need to mention the followthrough. The secret lies in having patience and giving the player a tactical challenge slightly above their current technical abilities, pushing them to find technical solutions within their reach to achieve it, guiding them to solve it but never telling them how.




The body is tremendously intelligent when it comes to organizing movements; it has been doing so for millions of years. We just need to give it a goal, and sooner or later, it will find the solution. By following this development system, the player will achieve a greater body awareness that will greatly facilitate any future adjustments that may be necessary if they reach a high level of performance.




Just as when you plant an apple seed, you don't expect to harvest tomorrow; you have to plant the seed of technique and take care of it, let it grow. Your best technique will happen when you are ready for it; the apple will simply fall when it is ripe.




Trying, failing, trying better, failing better—error as a teacher and not as a factor of incompetence. But that's a topic for another blog."

I wish I would have remembered this thread. I visited Barcelona in 2 years ago. Should have reached out to you.

 

[Dropshot777]

Well, whatever ball is coming at you, there are an immeasurable amount of ways to hit the ball that would result in a winner based off physics. But our brain simply can’t calculate what the ideal form is or even something simple like placement on any given shot in time to hit it, so the best thing people can do is get an idea, and stick with it, then the rest is execution and whether or not the form is “textbook” or not doesn’t matter so long as it works