The myth that Federer would beat Djokovic on fast surfaces

Federer hit 75 winners to 29 errors in the Wim 2014 final vs a GOAT defender and returner and still lost . Let’s not dismiss it.
 
junior74 said:
The Chosen One has no Chosen One biting his tail like Fraud had.
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The Chosen One, in his peak, got ass kicked at grass and later hard by The Clay Chosen One... Later, The Real Chosen One emerged and stopped Pretenders on his throne, as Real Chosen One should do...
 
beard said:
The Chosen One, in his peak, got ass kicked at grass and later hard by The Clay Chosen One... Later, The Real Chosen One emerged and stopped Pretenders on his throne, as Real Chosen One should do...
Click to expand...

Federer had 2/3 of the best players in history at 5/6 years younger age.

Djokovic has 6 years older Fraud, Finnish Ned, Tim, Kandyman and injured Berry Berry.

I think I know which scenario is more difficult.
 
junior74 said:
Federer had 2/3 of the best players in history at 5/6 years younger age.

Djokovic has 6 years older Fraud, Finnish Ned, Tim, Kandyman and injured Berry Berry.

I think I know which scenario is more difficult.
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Federer had 12 freebie smurf slams between 03-07 before Nadal fully matured
 
Biotic said:
While you're at it, you can also choose to go down the path of Fedr and question the "hawk-eye" accuracy.

I mean why not?
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Well yes, in early years in particular Hawkeye used to be miscalibrated sometimes, resulting in a margin of consistent error. Shouldn't have happened in a Wimbledon final, but who knows, it was the first WB to use the tech after all. Looks like you find the very idea laughable, as is the norm for your likes.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Well yes, in early years in particular Hawkeye used to be miscalibrated sometimes, resulting in a margin of consistent error. Shouldn't have happened in a Wimbledon final, but who knows, it was the first WB to use the tech after all. Looks like you find the very idea laughable, as is the norm for your likes.
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No, Federer was kinda robbed on multiple points there. But, that was in 2007, and hawk eye has been doing great in more recent years, so no reason not to trust official CPI which is based on hawk eye.

It's either that or it's fast only if Fedr wins mantra. Easy choice for most people.
 
Biotic said:
No, Federer was kinda robbed on multiple points there. But, that was in 2007, and hawk eye has been doing great in more recent years, so no reason not to trust official CPI which is based on hawk eye.

It's either that or it's fast only if Fedr wins mantra. Easy choice for most people.
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It's based on a particular analysis. Even Lew's anal-ysis is also technically based on factual stats mostly. Not interested in accepting unverifiable figures. Court conditions are difficult to ascertain except in broad strokes, indeed.
 
aldeayeah said:
The Ultimate Tennis Statistics court speed values are out of whack because they are estimated by serve effectiveness statistics, as you can read on the site itself, and as such aren't a direct measure of speed.

the end result is that, according to UTS, some editions of Rome or Madrid (to put an example) have been vastly speedier than 90s Wimbledon.

there's a reason why the speed values are hidden by default in many views in the site


Problem of using stats to estimate speed is that it leads to all sorts of circular logic. Such as "tournament X was slow because bad servers did well, also bad servers did well because tournament X was slow."
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One of the biggest logic mistakes is talking about "speed" but ignoring the height of the bounce. The biggest factor in cutting down the % of return games players can win is the bounce. A high bounce gives someone like Nadal a big chance at places like the USO because his deep return position hurts him less. Grass doesn't have to be faster to give an advantage to big servers. It just has to cut down on the reaction time of returners, which it still does.
 
Kralingen said:
Fast court Federer is like the last bastion of baseline respect for him that I thought any fan would have. No matter what I think it’s clear he’s the best fast court player of the 3, at least in prime-ish years.

now even that’s being called into question? Really?
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Anti Fed bias and pro Novak blind agenda :D
 
junior74 said:
Federer had 2/3 of the best players in history at 5/6 years younger age.

Djokovic has 6 years older Fraud, Finnish Ned, Tim, Kandyman and injured Berry Berry.

I think I know which scenario is more difficult.
Click to expand...
You love fractions, I see...

9/10 of your posts are the same age difference wining... ;)

And of those 2/3 best players in history that you mention, 1/3 is owned by Fed for years, while other 1/3 is still whipping Fed's ass... First 1/3 and second 1/3 are about the same age, so I guess Fed is getting younger compared to first 1/3, while getting older compared to second 1/3... ;)
 
beard said:
You love fractions, I see...

9/10 of your posts are the same age difference wining... ;)

And of those 2/3 best players in history that you mention, 1/3 is owned by Fed for years, while other 1/3 is still whipping Fed's ass... First 1/3 and second 1/3 are about the same age, so I guess Fed is getting younger compared to first 1/3, while getting older compared to second 1/3... ;)
Click to expand...

I love wining!
icegif-231.gif
 
It's not a myth. Federer is the better fast court player.

The myth is that Djokovic isn't a great fast court player in his own right. He's excellent on quick courts, and I'd like his chances against anybody who isn't as good as Federer. And he has chances against Federer, too.
 
xFedal said:
Which years? I think the site does a good job mostly. Someone told me AO2000 played significantly faster nd the data shows that it did.
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Check Ultimatetenis values of court speed for wimbledon

It shows CPI values in 50s for 1990s, then it shows higher for early 00s and after 2006 it shows 70-75+ and then shows 80+ for later years

Total nonsense
 
Go and watch Cincinatti to see how a 31 Fed made a peak 25 yr old Nole look like an inferior clown by bageling him

Thats a small taste of what Federer can do on fast courts where bounce is low and ball travels superfast

On the 90s courts Fed would thrash Nole 6-4, 7-5, 6-2
 
Using aces is always flawed when racquets have made it much easier to serve aces. One of the reason why conditions have slowed down to counter the increasing servefest.

Look into the 2nd serve % rate which negates the effect of aces and you can see while on clay it has increased over time, hard and grass peaked in early 2000s and has been on a slow decline ever since.
 
NoleIsBoat said:
Djokovic defeated Federer 3/4 times at Wimbledon - played on grass which is the fastest surface
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The last decade it was green clay not the fast grass that we usually saw in early 2000s.

Go and do a research on Fastest courts on tour...Sanghai and Cincy are at the top with CPI above 40...Wimbledon is not even in medium paced category....AO is the fastest but only after they changed the surface in 2017.


Federer Vs djokovic h2h in these (Cincy & Sanghai)tournaments is 5-1. Even you can Dubai to that list as it is one of the fastest courts in ATP circuits. Still Federer will have a massive lead.
 
Last edited:
Madinolf said:
Slams Djokovic and Federer met ordered by the percentage of aces hit by the players in the tournament:

2014 Wimbledon 11.1%
2015 Wimbledon 10.4%
2016 Australian Open 9.7%
2012 Wimbledon 9.5%
2015 US Open 9.0%
2020 Australian Open 9.0%
2008 US Open 8.6%
2019 Wimbledon 8.6%
2007 Australian Open 8.5%
2010 US Open 8.4%
2007 US Open 8.2%
2011 Australian Open 8.0%
2009 US Open 7.4%
2008 Australian Open 7.1%
2011 US Open 7.1%
2012 Roland Garros 5.9%
2011 Roland Garros 5.6%

H2H score in the 6 tournaments with the most aces (in bold) --> 5-1 Djokovic
Click to expand...
Watch 2014 Sanghai SF which was lightening fast in terms of speed and you will get your answer
 
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