The narrative would completely change if Djokovic won that US Open final

Jokervich

Hall of Fame
If Djokovic won that final, the majority of people would be saying "Djokovic can win the next 20 slams, Djokovic will win slams till he's 45-50, Djokovic can reach 40 slams, next gen will never win a slam".

Now most people are saying "is Djokovic finished? will he stay at 20? will Medvedev/Zverev win everything next year? will Djokovic go on a big decline/slump and never recover? next gen will win most slams from here"

The narrative is completely different just based on the result of this 1 match. Does anyone else notice this? And how close to the truth are these 2 opposing narratives?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
If Djokovic had won, then the narrative might have been that he would go into a prolonged slump now that he had achieved the holy grail of tennis.
 

Bubcay

Hall of Fame
I think that 'If' in your sentence is what matters....

He was not an indestructible force before the US Open the same as he is not done and finished after it.

And, we will see the continuation of the narrative at Indian Wells....
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
If people can remember back, posters here were advising Djokovic to just win the USO ... and then retire from the game on a high ... because they didn't want to see him win again, presumably.
 

FedFanBoy

Rookie
Only very few posters are saying Djokovic is done winning slams. The consensus seems to be he will win 1 to 2 next year, which would be reasonable prediction even if he won the US open.
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
What if Nadal had won the 2009 French Open? What if Nadal had won the 2011 Australian Open? What if Nadal had won the 2021 French Open? What if Federer had managed to win one of the French Opens between 2005-2008? What if Nadal had won against Djokovic at 2018 Wimbledon, thus keeping the 2-year sleeping genie in the bottle? What if Federer had won 2019 Wimbledon? What if Djokovic had won the 2012 French Open? What if Djokovic had won the 2015 French Open? A lot of what ifs.
 

Kralingen

Legend
Anyone who was paying attention to the earlier rounds as well as his Olympics form could see that the writing was on the wall this US Open. It was never the lock people were purporting it to be.

I mean, being pushed to death by freaking Jenson Brooksby on Labor Day should have alerted most talk tennis users that something was very, very wrong. I didn’t think he’d play that poorly in the final, but after a long 5 set SF & 6 more hours on court than Medvedev, not too surprising.

I also will say that Djokovic has been gassed/mentally fried at lower stakes US Opens as early as 2012 even and certainly during his physical peak. And it has had zero impact on his AO form.

All we really know is he won’t be winning any more slams in 2021. With the benefit of an off-season, AO22 Djokovic will likely look vastly different than USO21 Djokovic for a multitude of reasons.
 

Amen786

Semi-Pro
If Djokovic won that final, the majority of people would be saying "Djokovic can win the next 20 slams, Djokovic will win slams till he's 45-50, Djokovic can reach 40 slams, next gen will never win a slam".

Now most people are saying "is Djokovic finished? will he stay at 20? will Medvedev/Zverev win everything next year? will Djokovic go on a big decline/slump and never recover? next gen will win most slams from here"

The narrative is completely different just based on the result of this 1 match. Does anyone else notice this? And how close to the truth are these 2 opposing narratives?
If.....if.....if.... doesn't exist, no!!
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Anyone who was paying attention to the earlier rounds as well as his Olympics form could see that the writing was on the wall this US Open. It was never the lock people were purporting it to be.

I mean, being pushed to death by freaking Jenson Brooksby on Labor Day should have alerted most talk tennis users that something was very, very wrong. I didn’t think he’d play that poorly in the final, but after a long 5 set SF & 6 more hours on court than Medvedev, not too surprising.

I also will say that Djokovic has been gassed/mentally fried at lower stakes US Opens as early as 2012 even and certainly during his physical peak. And it has had zero impact on his AO form.

All we really know is he won’t be winning any more slams in 2021. With the benefit of an off-season, AO22 Djokovic will likely look vastly different than USO21 Djokovic for a multitude of reasons.
Logic pointed to him not winning the USO. The problem is that we've seen him win so many times when he probably shouldn't that when we'd call it a lock it's because we just assumed something weird would happen. He's made a career out of defying logic.

This is the same guy that looked on the brink of retirement in Australia against Fritz but then somehow stormed through the rest of the draw to win that title with a bad ab. The same guy who was down 0-2 to Musetti, struggled against Berrettini, used up a ton of emotional and physical energy to beat Nadal, was getting comprehensively outplayed by Tsitsipas in the final.....and still won.

Every time it looks like "the writing is on the wall," he still comes through anyway. So there was no reason to believe this would be any different. And he still damn near pulled it off, got all the way to the final.
 
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Goof

Semi-Pro
If Djokovic won that final, the majority of people would be saying "Djokovic can win the next 20 slams, Djokovic will win slams till he's 45-50, Djokovic can reach 40 slams, next gen will never win a slam".

Now most people are saying "is Djokovic finished? will he stay at 20? will Medvedev/Zverev win everything next year? will Djokovic go on a big decline/slump and never recover? next gen will win most slams from here"

The narrative is completely different just based on the result of this 1 match. Does anyone else notice this? And how close to the truth are these 2 opposing narratives?
LMAO, nobody thinks Zverev is winning anything major next year, not even Zverev.
 

Kralingen

Legend
Every time it looks like "the writing is on the wall," he still comes through anyway. So there was no reason to believe this would be any different. And he still damn near pulled it off, got all the way to the final.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I still predicted that he’d beat Medvedev on Sunday (given the AO match). I didn’t realize that Med’s level was going to be that high AND that djokovic’s explosion was going to be that heavily declined. It looked like he left his legs in the Zverev match.

Crazy thing is, like you said, it was still close. if that early 0-40 break happens Djokovic goes up possibly 3-0 in the 2nd and the match’s complexion changes entirely. Instead the music goes off, he has a nice little tantrum, gets inevitably broken, and off you go. I think the pressure got to him then, but if he gets the break maybe the pressure gets to Med.

My point was more about the “he’ll win 30 Slams” thing. I don’t understand if that was some sort of jinx or what but that to me has always been ridiculous. He was struggling a lot this year and as bad as the NextGen are, expecting them to be somehow worse in a couple years against an older, less fit, less explosive Djokovic feels wrong.
 

ghostofMecir

Hall of Fame
If Djokovic won that final, the majority of people would be saying "Djokovic can win the next 20 slams, Djokovic will win slams till he's 45-50, Djokovic can reach 40 slams, next gen will never win a slam".

Now most people are saying "is Djokovic finished? will he stay at 20? will Medvedev/Zverev win everything next year? will Djokovic go on a big decline/slump and never recover? next gen will win most slams from here"

The narrative is completely different just based on the result of this 1 match. Does anyone else notice this? And how close to the truth are these 2 opposing narratives?
Hmmm…I wonder if you asked this question when a 38 year Grandpa outplayed your hero only to throw it away. And that wasn’t even one match but one point that could’ve changed everything.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I still predicted that he’d beat Medvedev on Sunday (given the AO match). I didn’t realize that Med’s level was going to be that high AND that djokovic’s explosion was going to be that heavily declined. It looked like he left his legs in the Zverev match.

Crazy thing is, like you said, it was still close. if that early 0-40 break happens Djokovic goes up possibly 3-0 in the 2nd and the match’s complexion changes entirely. Instead the music goes off, he has a nice little tantrum, gets inevitably broken, and off you go. I think the pressure got to him then, but if he gets the break maybe the pressure gets to Med.

My point was more about the “he’ll win 30 Slams” thing. I don’t understand if that was some sort of jinx or what but that to me has always been ridiculous. He was struggling a lot this year and as bad as the NextGen are, expecting them to be somehow worse in a couple years against an older, less fit, less explosive Djokovic feels wrong.
As a guy rooting against Djokovic all tournament long, that moment early in the 2nd was beyond satisfying. Every match he'd lose the 1st set and then invariably his opponent would drop their level at the same time he started focusing up early in the 2nd and would break within the first game or two. Medvedev standing tall and denying him that break that you have to figure Novak was expecting to get was so shocking.

Novak himself even pointed to this in his post-match presser about how that was the turning point, that you never know what could've happened had he converted there. Everything could've changed, just like it had every round prior.
 
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goldengate14

Professional
If Djokovic won that final, the majority of people would be saying "Djokovic can win the next 20 slams, Djokovic will win slams till he's 45-50, Djokovic can reach 40 slams, next gen will never win a slam".

Now most people are saying "is Djokovic finished? will he stay at 20? will Medvedev/Zverev win everything next year? will Djokovic go on a big decline/slump and never recover? next gen will win most slams from here"

The narrative is completely different just based on the result of this 1 match. Does anyone else notice this? And how close to the truth are these 2 opposing narratives?
The problem is after Wimbledon Djokovic and his camp and fans and media friends acted as if it was a certainty he would emulate Graf 1988. The manner of his defeat to a guy with no slams and with cramp clearly raises massive questions.
More worrying is his bizzarre behaviour. Crying during a match and smiling intermittently suggests an implosian mentally. At 34 and seein how emotionally wrecked he seems.to be it is not surprising.many question i he wins a slam.again.
being blunt here was no reason for.his defeat in that manner. nothing wrong with scrutiny being applied
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This is the usual dismissive thesis that wants to create a wreck out of a loss. Everyone loses and Djokovic loses more as he ages. He had a hard draw and may have long covid. But he'll still do well in 2022.

The problem is after Wimbledon Djokovic and his camp and fans and media friends acted as if it was a certainty he would emulate Graf 1988. The manner of his defeat to a guy with no slams and with cramp clearly raises massive questions.
More worrying is his bizzarre behaviour. Crying during a match and smiling intermittently suggests an implosian mentally. At 34 and seein how emotionally wrecked he seems.to be it is not surprising.many question i he wins a slam.again.
being blunt here was no reason for.his defeat in that manner. nothing wrong with scrutiny being applied
 

goldengate14

Professional
As a guy rooting against Djokovic all tournament long, that moment early in the 2nd was beyond satisfying. Every match he'd lose the 1st set and then invariably his opponent would drop their level at the same time he started focusing up early in the 2nd and would break within the first game or two. Medvedev standing tall and denying him that break that you have to figure Novak expecting to get was so shocking.

Novak himself even pointed to this in his post-match presser about how that was the turning point, that you never know what could've happened had he converted there. Everything could've changed, just like it had every round prior.
Djokovic looked a broken man in his presser. He looked in shock. He probably woukd have won the match had he broken serveat that point which makes things worse for him.
 

pasta

Semi-Pro
Whole match was a sequence of "turning/key points" ...

Djokovic comes out of the gate cold, Medvedev hot ...
0:40 and losing 5 straight points ... bad
breaking the racquet/raging while the whole stadium is in frenzy and cheering for you - huge emotional opportunity lost ... !

Crying in the chair ... !?

I did not like a bit the energy from his box, it looked they were all working on their "victory speeches" a bit too much and bit too early ...
 

pasta

Semi-Pro
Very hard to come back from this ... One shot at the tennis glory !!! 21/CYGS

Pepe will be bu$y now !!!
 

goldengate14

Professional
This is the usual dismissive thesis that wants to create a wreck out of a loss. Everyone loses and Djokovic loses more as he ages. He had a hard draw and may have long covid. But he'll still do well in 2022.
Long covid? What sort of lame guess work is that?
The loss was a wreck. No escaping it. He is in a 3 way battle.for so.called GOAt status. He had the chance of a lifetime on his best surface to seal his place on top of the pile against a non slam winner who ended up cramping. Yet he blew it.
The loss is devastating and frankly a disaster. There is no way he should have lost that match.
 

goldengate14

Professional
Whole match was a sequence of "turning/key points" ...

Djokovic comes out of the gate cold, Medvedev hot ...
0:40 and losing 5 straight points ... bad
breaking the racquet/raging while the whole stadium is in frenzy and cheering for you - huge emotional opportunity lost ... !

Crying in the chair ... !?

I did not like a bit the energy from his box, it looked they were all working on their "victory speeches" a bit too much and bit too early ...
Where was Goran?
 

pasta

Semi-Pro
That match cost him at least 100 million US Dollars in lost marketing revenue during his life time !!!

Try coming back from that like it is just another GS Final loss !?

And yes ...

Goran was an absolute 'must have' in his box and in the serve category ... there were some second serves worthy of US Open final 2020 !
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Long covid? What sort of lame guess work is that?
The loss was a wreck. No escaping it. He is in a 3 way battle.for so.called GOAt status. He had the chance of a lifetime on his best surface to seal his place on top of the pile against a non slam winner who ended up cramping. Yet he blew it.
The loss is devastating and frankly a disaster. There is no way he should have lost that match.
What was your previous username?
 

beltsman

Legend
Anyone who was paying attention to the earlier rounds as well as his Olympics form could see that the writing was on the wall this US Open. It was never the lock people were purporting it to be.

I mean, being pushed to death by freaking Jenson Brooksby on Labor Day should have alerted most talk tennis users that something was very, very wrong. I didn’t think he’d play that poorly in the final, but after a long 5 set SF & 6 more hours on court than Medvedev, not too surprising.

I also will say that Djokovic has been gassed/mentally fried at lower stakes US Opens as early as 2012 even and certainly during his physical peak. And it has had zero impact on his AO form.

All we really know is he won’t be winning any more slams in 2021. With the benefit of an off-season, AO22 Djokovic will likely look vastly different than USO21 Djokovic for a multitude of reasons.
I wonder what treatments Novak is doing between USO and AO to completely recharge?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
As I said when Fed got mono, this will be a turning point in his career even though we, or even he, will ever know what it cost him. The effects of covid can be lasting, that's all, and he won't tell.

NOT ONLY WAS THERE EVERY CHANCE THAT HE WOULD LOSE THE FINAL, MOST OF THE OBJECTIVE ANALYSTS PREDICTED IT.

When you compared their draws, and the number of dropped sets, the smart money was always on Medvedev.

It might be just a case of old age for Djokovic, but even that is decisive at the end of a slam.

Long covid? What sort of lame guess work is that?
The loss was a wreck. No escaping it. He is in a 3 way battle.for so.called GOAt status. He had the chance of a lifetime on his best surface to seal his place on top of the pile against a non slam winner who ended up cramping. Yet he blew it.
The loss is devastating and frankly a disaster. There is no way he should have lost that match.
 

beltsman

Legend
Novak himself even pointed to this in his post-match presser about how that was the turning point, that you never know what could've happened had he converted there. Everything could've changed, just like it had every round prior.
He may be right, but it is annoying when players do this. As if the match was some sort of movie out of their control. "If I converted, then everything could have changed!" Uh, okay, so why didn't it change? You (Djokovic) were the one in position to make a change. So strange to hear them analyze moments as if they are a spectator.
 

Kralingen

Legend
As I said when Fed got mono, this will be a turning point in his career even though we, or even he, will ever know what it cost him. The effects of covid can be lasting, that's all, and he won't tell.
As we all know, symptoms of long Covid include outlasting men 10 years younger than you in multiple 5 set matches including the French Open final. Long COVID only kicks in when losing matches no?
 

Kralingen

Legend
I wonder what treatments Novak is doing between USO and AO to completely recharge?
No idea obviously, but I do think the mental recharge after what was a crazy near CYGS run would be just as important as any physical training or recovery at this point.
 

pasta

Semi-Pro
OK now ... let's be clear - there were no signs of this massive collapse ... Brooksby who ? RUUUUUUUNE who ? Berettini who ? Zverev who ???

Medvedev ... who ?

Still good to make it to the final, as a matter of fact the best in business ... but he failed !!! He had one shot at "Undisputed Tennis Champion of All Time" and he flaked ... !!!
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
He's had covid and If I were a professional athlete that would the last thing I'd want.

As we all know, symptoms of long Covid include outlasting men 10 years younger than you in multiple 5 set matches including the French Open final. Long COVID only kicks in when losing matches no?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
He is the undisputed tennis champion of all time or, at least, besides Laver.

OK now ... let's be clear - there were no signs of this massive collapse ... Brooksby who ? RUUUUUUUNE who ? Berettini who ? Zverev who ???

Medvedev ... who ?

Still good to make it to the final, as a matter of fact the best in business ... but he failed !!! He had one shot at "Undisputed Tennis Champion of All Time" and he flaked ... !!!
 

James P

G.O.A.T.
I hate to be a brutal a-hole, and I promise this isn't a personal thing directed only at Djokovic, but I really hope this was the match that finally destroys his self-belief. The man is a mental titan, but it's time to turn the page already.
 

Kralingen

Legend
He's had covid and If I were a professional athlete that would the last thing I'd want.
I actually think it did hurt him somewhat at RG2020, not necessarily the virus wreaking havoc inside his body but the fact that he lost probably a month or so of training/fitness in the buildup to RG while Nadal who skipped USO was fully fit and training the entire time.

After that though, I doubt it. When you consider how Zverev, Tsitsipas, Berrettini, Brooksby, Musetti, etc etc. all looked exhausted by the end of the 4/5 set matches while 34 year old Djokovic was still strong I can only conclude that “long COVID” couldn’t have been that bad.

it’s like I said in another comment, the humidity and mental toll has always hurt Djokovic at the USO even in 2012/13, along with playing long 5-Set SFs. those hurt him in his physical prime, so at age 34 he’d only be more susceptible.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Melbourne can be hot and humid, as well as very hot and very dry, and I remember Djovkovic folding in the heat there in his early career.

He does however play well fresh given that he has now won so many titles in Melbourne.

I actually think it did hurt him somewhat at RG2020, not necessarily the virus wreaking havoc inside his body but the fact that he lost probably a month or so of training/fitness in the buildup to RG while Nadal who skipped USO was fully fit and training the entire time.

After that though, I doubt it. When you consider how Zverev, Tsitsipas, Berrettini, Brooksby, Musetti, etc etc. all looked exhausted by the end of the 4/5 set matches while 34 year old Djokovic was still strong I can only conclude that “long COVID” couldn’t have been that bad.

it’s like I said in another comment, the humidity and mental toll has always hurt Djokovic at the USO even in 2012/13, along with playing long 5-Set SFs. those hurt him in his physical prime, so at age 34 he’d only be more susceptible.
 

pasta

Semi-Pro
He wins that match and the GOAT talk is over ... he had it on his racquet, on his favourite surface and for the first time with crowd on his side ... !!!

Maybe winning most GS ...?

But Goat ...

NO
 
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