"The new Federer would be jerking the old Federer around the court"

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
BO5 -Peak Fed straight sets, but close sets on HC. Grass I think the old man takes a set.

BO3- O l d e re r sneaks himself a win from time to time, but trails the H2H.
 
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JackGates

Hall of Fame
Ok, why did 2006 Fed have a losing h2h vs Murray and Nadal at the time? Were they also better players in 2006?

After the racket change, Fed is 11-1 vs them, surely they are better now than in 2006, can anyone explain why old Fed can own them?
 

HazBeen18

Rookie
Fed is winning now based on his ability (rare in today's game) to shorten points with uber-aggressive play. He wouldn't be able to do that against vintage Fed, who grew up learning how to beat serve-and-volleyers like Becker, Edberg, and Sampras. Vingate Fed was much stronger (heavier ball and more free points on serve) and unbelievably fast. Current Fed has great footwork but needs it, to anticipate better against faster, younger players. Cash has an IQ problem.
 

pabletion

Hall of Fame
He's crazy.

Peak Fed would blow off 2017/2018 Fed easily.

Improved backhand and serve would never make up for the forehand and speed.
I wonder if he's got youtube or even know what it is.......

Just watch 2005-2010 Federer banging the ball and being unpassable in velocity from any angle of the court. He was just unbeatable. Who needed a rocket-solid backhand back then?
 

fedfan39

Rookie
Extremes from both sides are hilarious.

2017/18 Fed would more than hold his own against the 2006 Fed due to the bigger racket, bigger serve, bigger backhand and a winning and battle hardened attitude.

2006 Fed might win in the end, but it will be close.

Case in point: Watch the 2005 USO final, forever etched in my memory. Old man Agassi gave Fed scare for quite a while before Fed pulled away. Just watch how lightning quick Agassi was striking the ball and how it was totally throwing Federer off.

Now replace that Agassi by 2017/18 Fed. This Fed is athletically way superior to THAT Agassi, and possesses the same lightning quick reflexes and ability to strike the ball.

Do not underestimate what *this Fed* is doing, weak era or not.
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
He's crazy.

Peak Fed would blow off 2017/2018 Fed easily.

Improved backhand and serve would never make up for the forehand and speed.
How many points a match do you think the current version of Fed loses to young Fed, due to speed? Speed/quickness doesn't seem like it would be a deciding factor in which Fed would win.

Post match interview of 2018 A.O, Fed said his current version is better. Said he'd hope that after all those years of practice that he's be a better player. If anything his current experience factor would cancel out any speed factor younger Fed may have.
 
A

Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
Young Fed had a more varied game, obviously better defense, he was even an awesome clay courter and a very good counterpuncher.

But current Fed is by far the better and more aggressive first strike shot maker, in large part thanks to his superior racket. Young Fed would certainly be challenged, at least on quicker courts.
 

fedfan39

Rookie
I wonder if he's got youtube or even know what it is.......

Just watch 2005-2010 Federer banging the ball and being unpassable in velocity from any angle of the court. He was just unbeatable. Who needed a rocket-solid backhand back then?
I remember 2008/09/10 Fed shanking way too many balls in the net. I remember Fed breaking his racket in frustration.

The warning signs were right there even in 2007 when Fed failed to win IW/Miami and lost to a very young Djokovic at the Rogers cup.

Fed's ultra aggressive game stopped paying dividends against the likes of Nadal, Djokovic and an early Murray (who owned a ridiculous H2H margin against Fed until Fed figured him out). Those 3 players have cost a 2005-10 many tournament wins.

Fed had to evolve, and better late than never. The evolved Fed has a far more complete game, and thanks to the bigger racket, far fewer mistakes. I believe this evolved Fed takes down a 2007-10 Fed. 2006 Fed...maybe not.
 

MeatTornado

Legend
How many points a match do you think the current version of Fed loses to young Fed, due to speed? Speed/quickness doesn't seem like it would be a deciding factor in which Fed would win.

Post match interview of 2018 A.O, Fed said his current version is better. Said he'd hope that after all those years of practice that he's be a better player. If anything his current experience factor would cancel out any speed factor younger Fed may have.
Lol, did you also see how much he hesitated before saying that. It was a "...Yeah..."

Like so many aging athletes, they try to convince themselves that they're better. You can't step on court thinking you're not as good as you used to be and not have that affect your play.
 

limmt

Rookie
Extremes from both sides are hilarious.

2017/18 Fed would more than hold his own against the 2006 Fed due to the bigger racket, bigger serve, bigger backhand and a winning and battle hardened attitude.

2006 Fed might win in the end, but it will be close.

Case in point: Watch the 2005 USO final, forever etched in my memory. Old man Agassi gave Fed scare for quite a while before Fed pulled away. Just watch how lightning quick Agassi was striking the ball and how it was totally throwing Federer off.

Now replace that Agassi by 2017/18 Fed. This Fed is athletically way superior to THAT Agassi, and possesses the same lightning quick reflexes and ability to strike the ball.

Do not underestimate what *this Fed* is doing, weak era or not.

Everyone here is overplaying the effect of the new racquet.

It's a great improvement for old Fed.

But the 2006 Fed wouldd actually be eaker with the bigger racquet. It helped him improve his backhand when his forehand was not strong enough with the old one.
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
Lol, did you also see how much he hesitated before saying that. It was a "...Yeah..."

Like so many aging athletes, they try to convince themselves that they're better. You can't step on court thinking you're not as good as you used to be and not have that affect your play.
Feds modesty prevented him from giving a quick answer of "yeah..." . :D

Great username... MeatTornado....LOL. :p
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
I'd argue that while current Fed is a significantly more experienced/nuanced tennis player, peak Fed was so far above him as a pure athlete that it's going to be hard to back 2017/2018 Federer confidently. He's only lost a step, but when you're playing a game of millimetres that might be enough.

Current Fed moves to balls that no one thinks he can get to and makes good plays on them. Peak Fed would seemingly float over to those same balls, step around them, and belt FHs for clean winners.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Extremes from both sides are hilarious.

2017/18 Fed would more than hold his own against the 2006 Fed due to the bigger racket, bigger serve, bigger backhand and a winning and battle hardened attitude.

2006 Fed might win in the end, but it will be close.

Case in point: Watch the 2005 USO final, forever etched in my memory. Old man Agassi gave Fed scare for quite a while before Fed pulled away. Just watch how lightning quick Agassi was striking the ball and how it was totally throwing Federer off.

Now replace that Agassi by 2017/18 Fed. This Fed is athletically way superior to THAT Agassi, and possesses the same lightning quick reflexes and ability to strike the ball.

Do not underestimate what *this Fed* is doing, weak era or not.
2017/2018 Federer does not possess the same ability as old Agassi to strike the ball. That's some nonsense. Repeat after me: Current Fed looks vulnerable to any guy who can hit with decent depth and pace off the baseline.
 
N

nikdom

Guest
NSFW aside -

I first read the title of this thread as "the new federer would be jerking off the old federer around the court"

LOL :p:D
 

robert.s

Professional
Ok, why did 2006 Fed have a losing h2h vs Murray and Nadal at the time? Were they also better players in 2006?

After the racket change, Fed is 11-1 vs them, surely they are better now than in 2006, can anyone explain why old Fed can own them?
Because he didn't know them that well and they were not strong and steady rivals for him on hard courts back then, as proven by the fact that they didn't go deep in the really important HC tournaments, that were AO, USO and World Tour Finals. Roddick, Agassi, even James Blake were better HC players than Nadal and Murray in 2006.
 
Extremes from both sides are hilarious.

2017/18 Fed would more than hold his own against the 2006 Fed due to the bigger racket, bigger serve, bigger backhand and a winning and battle hardened attitude.

2006 Fed might win in the end, but it will be close.

Case in point: Watch the 2005 USO final, forever etched in my memory. Old man Agassi gave Fed scare for quite a while before Fed pulled away. Just watch how lightning quick Agassi was striking the ball and how it was totally throwing Federer off.

Now replace that Agassi by 2017/18 Fed. This Fed is athletically way superior to THAT Agassi, and possesses the same lightning quick reflexes and ability to strike the ball.

Do not underestimate what *this Fed* is doing, weak era or not.
Haha. Blasphemous as it may seem, Agassi was certainly a better ballstriker than Federer at 32-35. A worse mover, too, which should cancel that out, but you forgot the very important return aspect. Agassi dominated the 2nd set of USO '05 final by throwing a couple of blistering returns that made Federer uncertain for a while. Federer can't be expected to do that - great as he is, return is not his greatest area, while Agassi is really one of the GOAT returners.

There is no reasonable doubt peak Federer would outplay current Federer in 5+shot points by a decent margin - increased craftiness doesn't come close to making up for the loss of sheer athleticism. So the question is, is current Federer's serve+return combo better enough than in his peak days that it would cancel the rally advantage? Don't think so at all - a better serve, but a worse return (ripping BH returns once in a while =! consistently getting serves back deep), the serve+return advantage is mild at best, while the rally disadvantage is considerable.
 
Ok, why did 2006 Fed have a losing h2h vs Murray and Nadal at the time? Were they also better players in 2006?

After the racket change, Fed is 11-1 vs them, surely they are better now than in 2006, can anyone explain why old Fed can own them?
Nadal is very much not better than in 06, other than *maybe* on clay, but Federer doesn't even bother playing on clay anymore.

Murray was of course better than in 06, but that 0-1 H2H meant as much as Djokovic going 0-1 vs Karlovic in 2015 - got caught on a bad day by a lesser opponent who stepped up and did not choke, it happens (in BO3 anyway) even to peak ATGs.
 

Defcon

Hall of Fame
Anyone who believes this nonsense needs to watch peak Fed, plenty of highlights on youtube. He used to hit fh winners all over at will, it was impossible to get a ball bast him just like Nadal, and he was much more offensive off bh as well. Speed was higher, serve wasn't worse etc. There's nothing Fed does better now except some strategy and bigger racket. And he gets pushed around by almost everyone, old Fed would smack people around and bagel top-10s regularly.
 

Tennisanity

Legend
Well you can't have it both ways. If Fed 2018 > Fed 2006 then it stands to reason Fed 2018 > Fed 2015. Hence Fed 2018 would beat both Novak 2015 and Nadal 2008 easily, since he is the best now.
 
The new federer would have lost against the Safin that defeated him at the AO in 2005 it was I think.

New Federer would not have won against prime Djoko at the AO. If you look at how much Nadal has declined physically. Compare his match against Verdasco and Federer 2009 with now. Nadal's serve has improved which helps quite a bit.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Nadal is very much not better than in 06, other than *maybe* on clay, but Federer doesn't even bother playing on clay anymore.

Murray was of course better than in 06, but that 0-1 H2H meant as much as Djokovic going 0-1 vs Karlovic in 2015 - got caught on a bad day by a lesser opponent who stepped up and did not choke, it happens (in BO3 anyway) even to peak ATGs.
Well Murray did kind of choke, lost his serve a bunch of times. Federer just one upped him because he was tired after Toronto and didn't want to spend any energy before USO. It goes into the same bin as 04 Miami, brought up by people who didn't follow tennis at the time and/or are trolls.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Ok, why did 2006 Fed have a losing h2h vs Murray and Nadal at the time? Were they also better players in 2006?

After the racket change, Fed is 11-1 vs them, surely they are better now than in 2006, can anyone explain why old Fed can own them?
06 Cincy is an aberration.

Simply put, 08-10 Fed didn’t really care about masters that much and wasn’t that consistent so Murray scored some good wins over him in them.

Peak Fed would run old Fed ragged. He still as an amazing serve, incredible speed, movement, FH. All he has to do is pummel old Fed’s FH/BH take your pick or just move him side to side and expose his lack of movement.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
I remember 2008/09/10 Fed shanking way too many balls in the net. I remember Fed breaking his racket in frustration.

The warning signs were right there even in 2007 when Fed failed to win IW/Miami and lost to a very young Djokovic at the Rogers cup.

Fed's ultra aggressive game stopped paying dividends against the likes of Nadal, Djokovic and an early Murray (who owned a ridiculous H2H margin against Fed until Fed figured him out). Those 3 players have cost a 2005-10 many tournament wins.

Fed had to evolve, and better late than never. The evolved Fed has a far more complete game, and thanks to the bigger racket, far fewer mistakes. I believe this evolved Fed takes down a 2007-10 Fed. 2006 Fed...maybe not.
The only place 2017 Fed is beating 07-10 Fed is Indian Wells and Miami.

AO, Wimbledon, USO, clay, Cincy, WTF? 07-10 Fed would easily beat him these places where he excelled during this period.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Clay: PeakFed beats 18Fed 6:2 6:3 6:1
HC: PeakFed beats 18Fed 6:3 7:6 4:6 6:1
Grass: PeakFed beats 18Fed 6:4 7:6 6:7 7:5
 

fedfan39

Rookie
The only place 2017 Fed is beating 07-10 Fed is Indian Wells and Miami.

AO, Wimbledon, USO, clay, Cincy, WTF? 07-10 Fed would easily beat him these places where he excelled during this period.
Ammm, I don't see Fed *excelling* anywhere in the ATP masters series starting 2008. In 2007, he was half decent. For a while, the only place where Fed could win was Cincy. What a shame too that he didn't even win enough indoor Masters and he had stopped being a factor on IW/Miami for a long while (except 2012).

2010 Shanghai Masters kind of illustrated this. Freaking Murray made a mincemeat of Fed in the Shanghai final.

Fed is a very pedestrian 27-19 in Masters series finals.

As for slams, the *peak Fed* lost W 2008 and AO 2009 to Nadal. I contend that the 2017/18 Fed doesn't lose those matches.

Peak Fed had a lot of great things, but the 2007-10 version was error prone and simply mentally not strong enough to hang against quality baseliners. I remember time and time again, Fed would shank his forehand. My wife and I made zillions of jokes every time it happened (she used to be happy as a Nadal fan whenever *THAT* happened).

Fed should have switched to a bigger racket long back, as early as early 2009 after that AO loss. He wasted too many years. This Fed will take 07-10 Fed to the distance with his newfound weapons.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Ammm, I don't see Fed *excelling* anywhere in the ATP masters series starting 2008. In 2007, he was half decent. For a while, the only place where Fed could win was Cincy. What a shame too that he didn't even win enough indoor Masters and he had stopped being a factor on IW/Miami for a long while (except 2012).

2010 Shanghai Masters kind of illustrated this. Freaking Murray made a mincemeat of Fed in the Shanghai final.

Fed is a very pedestrian 27-19 in Masters series finals.

As for slams, the *peak Fed* lost W 2008 and AO 2009 to Nadal. I contend that the 2017/18 Fed doesn't lose those matches.

Peak Fed had a lot of great things, but the 2007-10 version was error prone and simply mentally not strong enough to hang against quality baseliners. I remember time and time again, Fed would shank his forehand. My wife and I made zillions of jokes every time it happened (she used to be happy as a Nadal fan whenever *THAT* happened).

Fed should have switched to a bigger racket long back, as early as early 2009 after that AO loss. He wasted too many years. This Fed will take 07-10 Fed to the distance with his newfound weapons.
If you read my post again, I state that 07-10 Fed excelled at the following events:

AO, Wimbledon, USO, Cincy, WTF, clay (so RG, Hamburg, MC).

He’d wipe the floor with old Fed at these events. Old Fed would win sunshine double that’s it.

Also absolutely no chance is old Fed beating 09 Nadal at AO. 08 Wimbledon maybe he has a shot if he’s confident (due to how mentally fragile 08 Fed was at the time)

Masters events from 08-10 he was superb at Hamburg, Madrid and Cincy, with good runs at MC in 08, Canada/Shanghai/Paris in 2010.
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
Young Federer would win easily. Way too much footwork and ability to rally all day with consistency. Just watch old Federer matches of 2006 vintage. It's obvious he's better. Current Federer is forced to be more aggressive, and his consistency is much more unreliable, like the worrying period for him in the recent Australian Open final.

Certain people always try to big up the present day as the best ever.
 
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