The 'no show' captain's wager...

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I understand why it happens, but doesn't make it less d'ish.

What I am referring to is when a captain knows a he will be short players, but chooses not to tell the other team's captain in hopes they may not have players and default first. Tonight I was really looking forward to the match, but not only did the other players for our line no show, but the captain absolutely knew well before hand because he did not even schedule a court. So we had to scrounge to even get in some play time after driving an hour in traffic to make it there. They had already deafult'd the D3 line, but at least let us know last week. Then our D2 line was the big no show and no court booked. And the S1 line was going to be a default, but I think that captain got the feeling we were a little ticked, so he offered to play. I mean, this team is 0/10 for the season, so I get it doesn't matter to them, but I wanted the NTRP padding by throwing down some bagels or breadsticks for the win.

Anyone else have to deal with this often?
 
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Matthew ATX

Semi-Pro
Thankfully most captains here are friendly with each other and will keep each other posted about possible lines that are lacking or what not. Even the worst captains in the bitterest fights for first place in an advancing season won't play chicken to the point of defaulting lines at match time that they knew they weren't going to be able to field.
 

silverwyvern4

New User
I understand why it happens, but doesn't make it less d'sih.

What I am referring to is when a captain knows a he will be short players, but chooses not to tell the other team's captain in hopes they may not have players and default first. Tonight I was really looking forward to the match, but not only did the other players for our line no show, but the captain absolutely knew well before hand because he did not even schedule a court. So we had to scrounge to even get in some play time after driving an hour in traffic to make it there. They had already deafult'd the D3 line, but at least let us know last week. Then our D2 line was the big no show and no court booked. And the S1 line was going to be a default, but I think that captain got the feeling we were a little ticked, so he offered to play. I mean, this team is 0/10 for the season, so I get it doesn't matter to them, but I wanted the NTRP padding by throwing down some bagels or breadsticks for the win.

Anyone else have to deal with this often?
Oof, so you might end up being forced to promote because they defaulted, so you couldn't dump rating points?
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Thankfully most captains here are friendly with each other and will keep each other posted about possible lines that are lacking or what not. Even the worst captains in the bitterest fights for first place in an advancing season won't play chicken to the point of defaulting lines at match time that they knew they weren't going to be able to field.
Yeah, I get if a first place team is working every angle to win, and that happens a little. And actually, in most cases even through the shenanigans might be annoying the players on the team are all good blokes.

I deal with it with my ladies team. It seems to be the last place team each season whereas I’m on the first place team. the lack of etiquette is shocking. 3 matches last season were no shows. Tennis starts with respect for your opponent and this speaks volumes!
We've been the first place team and had some of the further teams bow out of matches, but usually they are decent about it and give us advanced notice since it doesn't matter to them overall. That no show stuff doh....grrrrr!

Oof, so you might end up being forced to promote because they defaulted, so you couldn't dump rating points?
Not sure what you are saying ?? What I was referring to was the default doesn't count and I have been working hard this season to improve at least my competitiveness, and my rating. I really wanted to have a match rating and play it out to have it count, especially after putting in a few hours to get there and back. Not sure what 'forced to promote" is referring to though. Cheers.
 

Creighton

Semi-Pro
Are you guys not willing to reschedule matches in your area?

The first local area I played in rarely ever had forfeits because we would rather play so we just rescheduled.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
Are you guys not willing to reschedule matches in your area?

The first local area I played in rarely ever had forfeits because we would rather play so we just rescheduled.
Technically we are not supposed to in our area. Only reason for rescheduling as noted by our Area is if there is another USTA conflict or inclement weather.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
That's such a crappy rule that discourages play and emphasizes winning.
Agreed. I mean it does happen occasionally but most teams aren't really interested in rescheduling. I do what I can when asked hoping for a pay back sometime in the future.
 

Goof

Professional
I understand why it happens, but doesn't make it less d'ish.

What I am referring to is when a captain knows a he will be short players, but chooses not to tell the other team's captain in hopes they may not have players and default first. Tonight I was really looking forward to the match, but not only did the other players for our line no show, but the captain absolutely knew well before hand because he did not even schedule a court. So we had to scrounge to even get in some play time after driving an hour in traffic to make it there. They had already deafult'd the D3 line, but at least let us know last week. Then our D2 line was the big no show and no court booked. And the S1 line was going to be a default, but I think that captain got the feeling we were a little ticked, so he offered to play. I mean, this team is 0/10 for the season, so I get it doesn't matter to them, but I wanted the NTRP padding by throwing down some bagels or breadsticks for the win.

Anyone else have to deal with this often?
In my District, the game of chicken generally happens at 5pm the day prior to the match, with the home team heavily advantaged. Any notification of a no-show after that time or any actual no-show results in the no-showing team having to pay the full regular court rates plus guest fees for all scheduled match courts. Home team obviously can take it to or past the deadline without repercussions generally, but a home team no-show at match time would at least mean visiting players do not pay a dime for the match/courts. Without an approved excuse by head of District, two such occurrences by one team in a league session gets them banned from playoffs and the next session.
 

Purestriker

Professional
I understand why it happens, but doesn't make it less d'ish.

What I am referring to is when a captain knows a he will be short players, but chooses not to tell the other team's captain in hopes they may not have players and default first. Tonight I was really looking forward to the match, but not only did the other players for our line no show, but the captain absolutely knew well before hand because he did not even schedule a court. So we had to scrounge to even get in some play time after driving an hour in traffic to make it there. They had already deafult'd the D3 line, but at least let us know last week. Then our D2 line was the big no show and no court booked. And the S1 line was going to be a default, but I think that captain got the feeling we were a little ticked, so he offered to play. I mean, this team is 0/10 for the season, so I get it doesn't matter to them, but I wanted the NTRP padding by throwing down some bagels or breadsticks for the win.

Anyone else have to deal with this often?
Yes and it is always the same captain.
 

WhiteOut

Semi-Pro
I understand why it happens, but doesn't make it less d'ish.

What I am referring to is when a captain knows a he will be short players, but chooses not to tell the other team's captain in hopes they may not have players and default first. Tonight I was really looking forward to the match, but not only did the other players for our line no show, but the captain absolutely knew well before hand because he did not even schedule a court. So we had to scrounge to even get in some play time after driving an hour in traffic to make it there. They had already deafult'd the D3 line, but at least let us know last week. Then our D2 line was the big no show and no court booked. And the S1 line was going to be a default, but I think that captain got the feeling we were a little ticked, so he offered to play. I mean, this team is 0/10 for the season, so I get it doesn't matter to them, but I wanted the NTRP padding by throwing down some bagels or breadsticks for the win.

Anyone else have to deal with this often?
here in our district, the assn/league imposed a 24 hr default rule. cap must notify the opposing team AND CLUB that they have to default 24 hrs before match time. if they do not, the defaulting team is responsible to pay the *entire court fee* ($14/player x 4). This is because the assn has to negotiate with the clubs in the area for court time. The clubs are counting on that revenue, so to just bail is no bueno, and makes them less likely to accommodate needed courts for leagues. it seems to have decreased the instances of this happening, plus most caps know all the others and we have to work together on this stuff, so seeing less jackassery the last two years.

i think the main thing tho is, once caps understand that by just defaulting they are screwing three other people from getting to play after driving across town, then peer pressure takes over, and seeing fewer instances of 'default-chicken'.

example: 7.5 combo. One night i only had two 4.0 players remaining available. called the other cap, said i have to default the court, BUT my two 4.0's are willing to play, if your two guys still want to, let's have a friendly on court 3. no problem, club got their $$, guys played, beer got drank, all good.
 

Goof

Professional
here in our district, the assn/league imposed a 24 hr default rule. cap must notify the opposing team AND CLUB that they have to default 24 hrs before match time. if they do not, the defaulting team is responsible to pay the *entire court fee* ($14/player x 4). This is because the assn has to negotiate with the clubs in the area for court time. The clubs are counting on that revenue, so to just bail is no bueno, and makes them less likely to accommodate needed courts for leagues. it seems to have decreased the instances of this happening, plus most caps know all the others and we have to work together on this stuff, so seeing less jackassery the last two years.

i think the main thing tho is, once caps understand that by just defaulting they are screwing three other people from getting to play after driving across town, then peer pressure takes over, and seeing fewer instances of 'default-chicken'.

example: 7.5 combo. One night i only had two 4.0 players remaining available. called the other cap, said i have to default the court, BUT my two 4.0's are willing to play, if your two guys still want to, let's have a friendly on court 3. no problem, club got their $$, guys played, beer got drank, all good.
I miss the days of beer after matches. One club in my District banned drinking (well, other than beer/wine sold by the club itself at one specific tournament every year), so the post-match pizza and beer that we used to have with the opposing team was stopped, at all clubs. :(
 

Purestriker

Professional
I miss the days of beer after matches. One club in my District banned drinking (well, other than beer/wine sold by the club itself at one specific tournament every year), so the post-match pizza and beer that we used to have with the opposing team was stopped, at all clubs. :(
That is a terrible business model.
 

Matthew ATX

Semi-Pro
Are you guys not willing to reschedule matches in your area?

The first local area I played in rarely ever had forfeits because we would rather play so we just rescheduled.
The more I've gotten into captaining, the more I see just how many people hold grudges.
 

MRfStop

Hall of Fame
I miss the days of beer after matches. One club in my District banned drinking (well, other than beer/wine sold by the club itself at one specific tournament every year), so the post-match pizza and beer that we used to have with the opposing team was stopped, at all clubs. :(
ALTA is awesome for this. Most teams bring food and drinks to matches...especially come playoff time
 

Purestriker

Professional
The more I've gotten into captaining, the more I see just how many people hold grudges.
We used to be able to reschedule pretty easily before the pandemic. But the last 18 months have been difficult, players schedules are tougher and the growth of teams makes it harder to find an open court for reschedule. Our state office has even started filing grievances for defaults so maybe that will address the folks that shouldn't be captains.
 

Snarf

New User
Agreed. I mean it does happen occasionally but most teams aren't really interested in rescheduling. I do what I can when asked hoping for a pay back sometime in the future.
We have the same rule and vigorously ignore it. The LLC quit our team because the captains agreed to move a court from one facility to another so it could be played. "If you guys knew how much time, I put into making the schedule ..." Typical USTA attitude
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
That's such a crappy rule that discourages play and emphasizes winning.
True, it does emphasize winning - but USTA leagues are supposed to be competitive leagues, and winning is kind of the point. Everyone has a club or local public ladder or some other system for casual non-competitive play. If you are looking to just play, not keep score, not worry about ratings, and not worry about winning the league, there are plenty of options for that.
 

Creighton

Semi-Pro
True, it does emphasize winning - but USTA leagues are supposed to be competitive leagues, and winning is kind of the point. Everyone has a club or local public ladder or some other system for casual non-competitive play. If you are looking to just play, not keep score, not worry about ratings, and not worry about winning the league, there are plenty of options for that.
I think for most people it's about just playing though.
 

FedLIKEnot

Professional
There is a team by where I live that is notorious for doing this. Though they dont always wait until the match start time to do this, often they will email 90mins out from a match that they have to cancel/default/reschedule. Of note they are usually the furthest out in our area so part of it is their captain being a dbag. Also their club is not always the best for getting courts so they have to stagger start times for spring leagues often. Its just a nightmare, but alas they tend to get to represent the area at districts in 3.5, and 4.0 mens and lately 4.5 mens, as well as 4.0 ladies. Annoyingly they also have incredible 7.0 and 8.0 mx teams as well.
 
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