The Official Angell Users Club

stocchero

New User
do you guys know what would would be a possible SW change in 16x19 patterns if the 18x20 bumps up by 29 pts? I assume 16x19 patterns have lower impact on final SW. How much lower is the question ;p
Not much. The total weight difference of the strings would be about 1 gram, and you can project that difference as a 1 gram removed from the center of the stringbed, so the same as adding (or removing) 1 gram from 3 or 9... And that is about 2 sw point, probably.

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stocchero

New User
Probably a question that has been asked a lot: I'm thinking of ordering a second custom tc100, with the exact spec's of my first order, will the new one be identical in all aspects incl SW to the previous one?
Swingweight vary with the batches Paul receives. But you can just email Paul and he can try to match your swingweights

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Gee

Hall of Fame
Probably a question that has been asked a lot: I'm thinking of ordering a second custom tc100, with the exact spec's of my first order, will the new one be identical in all aspects incl SW to the previous one?
No, I wouldn't count on that. I ordered two TC100s together with one order. While I mentioned my preferred swingweight the frames feel different in weight when holding them horizontally.
You should measure the specs of your TC100 and call Paul if he has one available with your desired specs.
 

bateman

New User
Thanks for the replies guys, so it's only SW that can be different right? I've never measured SW myself with the DIY method, I guess the idea would be to try and get an accurate reading myself at home at send that over to Paul to see if he has something close in stock?

Sorry for these questions, I know you guys are not Angell support, but you answer like you are :)

I have one more that has probably been asked a bunch; when adding handle weight to an angel, what is the most recommended? My first thoughts are to use nails / screws into the foam.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
do you guys know what would would be a possible SW change in 16x19 patterns if the 18x20 bumps up by 29 pts? I assume 16x19 patterns have lower impact on final SW. How much lower is the question ;p
Was this (29 points bump up for a SW) 1.20, or even smaller gauge? Because it sounds a bit lowish, I'd expect over 30 points increase for 18x20. Anyway the difference should be around 2 SW pts, not more given the same string and the gauge, but string and gauge can make a difference.
 
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Or i should have probably said - not sure a shorter balance at the expense of only more static weight in the handle would make the racket more whippy (if I am already struggling with the existing setup)?
just for arguments sake... not to tell you anything you dont already know but it really is worth it to get used to a heavier more hl stick... unless sw really is the problem... but i wonder if some on these boards are over concerned with sw #'s. Myself its the balance point that matters more as long as it is over 12.4oz strung. 9pts hl for me

my two tc95s... 1st bought used, the other from Paul play identically except for the B and A grip shape
 
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I'd say it would be much easier to count those who aren't.
I think part of it is the fact that it is a much discussed stat yet most players dont even have an accurate measurement of it... there is a certain apophenia to a factual stat that is out of reach due to the scarcity of standardized professional measurements.

I do know that pretty much every frame Ive used seems to somehow become 9 pts hl one way or another... I make adjustments by feel then when I check them in fits of empiricism it seems 9pts is somehow important.

That said everyone is different... we all obsess over some points of faith in our respective racquet religions. Whatever helps one believe on court... (I could make an Angell pun but wont)

I just find it interesting that SW is bandied about so much when most dont have accurate #'s and an inability to really verify. Nothing can make you crazier than trying to calculate these things without good tools that are calibrated and consistent. Oh well.
 
Anyone knows?
There's a range for both ofc and perhaps that's best a question for Paul who obviously has the best opportunity to get a large enough sample to be meaningful... certainly the TC97 will be at least a few SW points lower on average. A sample of say 20+ frames would give a good average plus a range. The bigger the sample the better and ofc it is likely to be just the hairpin #'s

I do know Paul keeps close tabs on the manufacturing variances and he considers it a feature of the custom experience... you can ask for a lower or heavier specs and he tracks this info so when you reorder you get good matches for your existing frames with the replacements. I love that.
 
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RGT

Rookie
Anyone knows?
I asked paul this question regarding a 320g/305mm spec. He told me the sw would be around 300 for the tc97 and 308 for the tc95. But as already noticed, the sw has a range. I've got a set of tc97's in 330g/305mm with a sw of 297 coming in a few days [emoji2]

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Whats this unique "D" box section design?
Is it only in TC95?
How does it matter/help?
The TC90, 95 and 100 all have D beams. I also think the 105? has it

It gives the frames a unique feel.

The hoop is lower distortion and the frames flex very evenly... ie no perceived part of the frame flexes more than the other... so they dont feel noodly. Even the Ra63 (57-58 strung) frames feel like they flex consistently along the length. The TC97 with its box beam design is designed to flex more in the hoop. For some this adds control.

IMHO, part of the reason the TC95 has so much spin is the way its hoop doesnt deform as much as many other types of frames.

Lastly the D beam is mostly in the throat and is more oval in the head except at the very tip which is box beamed... this variable geometry I feel attenuates vibrations and adds to the comfort. I only have 1 other D Beamed frame the Prince O3 Tour... a 97 that also really serves bullets and has wonderful spin potential (perhaps correlations?)

I also like the rounded feel of the D beam throat for 1 handed backhand takebacks on my tc95s ... feels nice.
 

tribesmen

Professional
I have two TC95 and two TC97, both in 16x19 and 18x20. They all play very similar, the major difference is that TC95 vibrate when you hit outside the sweetspot, TC97 are rock solid. TC95 have ping sound without dampener, TC97 no ping sound at all. All string with the same string, RS Lyon 1.20.
 
I have two TC95 and two TC97, both in 16x19 and 18x20. They all play very similar, the major difference is that TC95 vibrate when you hit outside the sweetspot, TC97 are rock solid. TC95 have ping sound without dampener, TC97 no ping sound at all. All string with the same string, RS Lyon 1.20.
How would you compare the power in 16x19 version for both?

Did you try a multi string?

I am sorry for asking so many question. It's going to be my first experience with an Angell.
 

galapagos

Semi-Pro
Was this (29 points bump up for a SW) 1.20, or even smaller gauge? Because it sounds a bit lowish, I'd expect over 30 points increase for 18x20. Anyway the difference should be around 2 SW pts, not more given the same string and the gauge, but string and gauge can make a difference.
18x20 tc95 yonex poly tour spin 1.25
 
I have two TC95 and two TC97, both in 16x19 and 18x20. They all play very similar, the major difference is that TC95 vibrate when you hit outside the sweetspot, TC97 are rock solid. TC95 have ping sound without dampener, TC97 no ping sound at all. All string with the same string, RS Lyon 1.20.
With TC95 I get very little vibration, even when I miss the sweetspot but I string at 45lbs with RSlyon 1.25(1 piece in 16x19 pattern) I can play just fine without a dampener with it and only use the most minimal of rubber bands (a #33). No pings for me and my strings probably settle around 39lbs after stringing and a couple of hours of hitting.
 

NYJet24

New User
I've been waiting to order a couple for days now but Paul has been terrible at response time to my questions. I asked a couple questions last Wednesday and he didn't get back until Monday. I immediately asked one more simple follow-up question and am still waiting for a reply.


so you guys are saying the swingweights will vary and won't be the same? what if I put in the notes when I order what my desired swingweight will be?

Is the swingweight listed on TW for rackets strung or unstrung?
 
I've been waiting to order a couple for days now but Paul has been terrible at response time to my questions. I asked a couple questions last Wednesday and he didn't get back until Monday. I immediately asked one more simple follow-up question and am still waiting for a reply.


so you guys are saying the swingweights will vary and won't be the same? what if I put in the notes when I order what my desired swingweight will be?

Is the swingweight listed on TW for rackets strung or unstrung?
He will get back to you... its just not always immediately since he gives personal response. It is a small shop and you are getting personal attention from a top expert/designer. I wouldnt be surprised if he's extra busy just before Wimbledon which is a big racquet sales time and inventory etc is crucial.

Yes swingweights can vary but if you ask for a match Im certain he'd do that and note it in his records for the future too.

TW swingweights are strung I believe? Note, poly strings are somewhat heavier
 

NYJet24

New User
He will get back to you... its just not always immediately since he gives personal response. It is a small shop and you are getting personal attention from a top expert/designer.

Yes swingweights can vary but if you ask for a match Im certain he'd do that and note it in his records for the future too.

TW swingweights are strung I believe? Note, poly strings are somewhat heavier
If I order two at the same time they'll be the same though, right? What if 2 years from now I want to buy another, how do I ensure it's the same as my current ones?
 
I've been waiting to order a couple for days now but Paul has been terrible at response time to my questions. I asked a couple questions last Wednesday and he didn't get back until Monday. I immediately asked one more simple follow-up question and am still waiting for a reply.


so you guys are saying the swingweights will vary and won't be the same? what if I put in the notes when I order what my desired swingweight will be?

Is the swingweight listed on TW for rackets strung or unstrung?
That's surprising. He's been pretty good answering my emails. Maybe he's busy fulfilling backlogged orders.

He told me for my config the unstrung SW will be 295 to 305. After stringing, I think the minimum will be 322. This is for 320g(11.4oz) / 310mm(10ptsHL) on a TC97 16X19

You can give him your desired SW and he may be able to get close, if not exact. I prefer to start off with lower SW, so I can add lead to get it up to my liking.
 

tribesmen

Professional
How would you compare the power in 16x19 version for both?

Did you try a multi string?

I am sorry for asking so many question. It's going to be my first experience with an Angell.
Unfortunately not playing with multi for years, regarding power, I had a feeling that TC95 give me more power, but my tennis buddies told me there was not any difference. The feel of TC95 is unmatched, really great, but overall I prefer TC97 and find it more versatile and more forgiving, but that's just me, we're all different.
 

tribesmen

Professional
With TC95 I get very little vibration, even when I miss the sweetspot but I string at 45lbs with RSlyon 1.25(1 piece in 16x19 pattern) I can play just fine without a dampener with it and only use the most minimal of rubber bands (a #33). No pings for me and my strings probably settle around 39lbs after stringing and a couple of hours of hitting.
Your decision to string it so low is probably right and correct for this guy. My preference is to have around 22-24 kg cca. 50 lbs, but it seems TC95 is more at-home with lower tensions.
 

krikamons

New User
just for arguments sake... not to tell you anything you dont already know but it really is worth it to get used to a heavier more hl stick... unless sw really is the problem... but i wonder if some on these boards are over concerned with sw #'s. Myself its the balance point that matters more as long as it is over 12.4oz strung. 9pts hl for me

my two tc95s... 1st bought used, the other from Paul play identically except for the B and A grip shape
just for arguments sake... not to tell you anything you dont already know but it really is worth it to get used to a heavier more hl stick... unless sw really is the problem... but i wonder if some on these boards are over concerned with sw #'s. Myself its the balance point that matters more as long as it is over 12.4oz strung. 9pts hl for me

my two tc95s... 1st bought used, the other from Paul play identically except for the B and A grip shape

Don't really the science behind this. Just struggling to generate enough (effortless) head speed. And if I do I get pain in my wrist pretty soon.
 

scf

Semi-Pro
Don't really the science behind this. Just struggling to generate enough (effortless) head speed. And if I do I get pain in my wrist pretty soon.
I came to TC100 from Pro Drive/Pure Aero. Despite of higher static weight (320 vs 300) TC100 is easier to swing. TC100 has 285 SW and 308mm balance unstrung.
 

krikamons

New User
I came to TC100 from Pro Drive/Pure Aero. Despite of higher static weight (320 vs 300) TC100 is easier to swing. TC100 has 285 SW and 308mm balance unstrung.
my reference point is volkl sg v1 pro - had that playstation ease of use
keep scratching my head about the 'use the heaviest racket you can handle' mantra. feel that more emphasis should be put on what "can handle" means :)
 

joohan

Hall of Fame
my reference point is volkl sg v1 pro - had that playstation ease of use
keep scratching my head about the 'use the heaviest racket you can handle' mantra. feel that more emphasis should be put on what "can handle" means :)
Can handle - I am able/willing to admit. My case, anyway.
 

topspn

Legend
my reference point is volkl sg v1 pro - had that playstation ease of use
keep scratching my head about the 'use the heaviest racket you can handle' mantra. feel that more emphasis should be put on what "can handle" means :)
Very subjective for each person depending on their mechanics and physical conditioning.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
my reference point is volkl sg v1 pro - had that playstation ease of use
keep scratching my head about the 'use the heaviest racket you can handle' mantra. feel that more emphasis should be put on what "can handle" means :)
Very subjective for each person depending on their mechanics and physical conditioning.
Because it's what 'you can handle', therefore subjective by definition.

But even what 'you can handle' is pretty relative. Currently one of the racquets I play with is i.Prestige weighted to 372 grams (321 mm balance). I'd say this one is somewhere on my upper limit of what I can handle. But the truth is...I could handle it better. So the alternative is either to go down 15-20 grams to the usuall weight ballpark, or to force myself to use my core more on each stroke...in which case I handle it well. So, what I handle is stretchy, as I can advance my technique and handle more even without any change in physical strength. Core is quite strong anyway.
 

dgoran

Hall of Fame
I have two TC95 and two TC97, both in 16x19 and 18x20. They all play very similar, the major difference is that TC95 vibrate when you hit outside the sweetspot, TC97 are rock solid. TC95 have ping sound without dampener, TC97 no ping sound at all. All string with the same string, RS Lyon 1.20.
Funny for me the exact opposite was true tc97 was pingy and tc95 felt buttery smooth. I think this is very string dependent and or specs. My sw was higher on tc95 than tc97.
 
Don't really the science behind this. Just struggling to generate enough (effortless) head speed. And if I do I get pain in my wrist pretty soon.
The science is pretty solid... Im a big returner and therefore I benefit from a stick set up to deliver on returns with mass and stability so anything over 12.5 oz at about 9pts hl works. In general I set up my sticks to have good stick on any 1st or second serve that is struck well with a good toss (like pretty much every player if my serve goes off it is the toss that is the culprit) as well as reliable on returns. Big returners usually have pretty hefty setups that still ar maneuverable. I really have never had problems generating RHS... I used to play with 13oz+ wood sticks when I was learning the game. I still cant believe how cleanly pros could hit with a standard sized head back in the 60's and 70's.

Your decision to string it so low is probably right and correct for this guy. My preference is to have around 22-24 kg cca. 50 lbs, but it seems TC95 is more at-home with lower tensions.
Yes the Tc95 seems to like a control oriented full poly string job at lower tensions... it enhances its prodigious spin
 
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Georgo

New User
The science is pretty solid... Im a big returner and therefore I benefit from a stick set up to deliver on returns with mass and stability so anything over 12.5 oz at about 9pts hl works. In general I set up my sticks to have good stick on any 1st or second serve that is struck well with a good toss (like pretty much every player if my serve goes off it is the toss that is the culprit) as well as reliable on returns. Big returners usually have pretty hefty setups that still ar maneuverable. I really have never had problems generating RHS... I used to play with 13oz+ wood sticks when I was learning the game. I still cant believe how cleanly pros could hit with a standard sized head back in the 60's and 70's.

Yes the Tc95 seems to like a control oriented full poly string job at lower tensions... it enhances its prodigious spin
I am fascinated right by the opposite, how well it plays at 25KG (55lbs) or even 26KG (57lbs) while remaining totally arm friendly with a poly.
 
Ok an almost unrelated and passionate post...

Part of the reason I had to try Angell frames is Paul is an engineer, like my Dad. Someone who worked for the big companies for decades but had to work under board room decisions rather than what may or may not be the more ideal design decisions (there is always a tradeoff). He still found a way to do some great things... and years later went out on his own with a small company so he could do things his way. When the ALS disease forced him into retirement he still did some expert consulting.

My Dad was my first tennis coach and hed taken lessons but probably never better than a 3.0 and I remember beating him for the first time when I was 6 or so. Last year I got to show him one of my Angell frames and though he could barely walk wanted to watch me hit with it. He loved the story about an engineer doing it his way and the practical way Paul has gone about making his frames for a customer base that other companies seem to have lost touch with.

He died a few days ago... the disease having not yet taken all of his autonomy... but rapidly progressing.

Life is too short to do things in a way that is throwaway culture and planned obsolescence....

That's all, I will miss him and years ago he gave my his Tony Trabert Wilson Stylist... Yes Ive hit with it... what a beast of a stick. It reminded me a lot of the TC95 except with a tiny 60sq inch head (dang could it serve and hit huge forehands).

Life is too short to not play the game the way you want to. Salutes and big serves Dad... I'll miss you
 

Gee

Hall of Fame
Ok an almost unrelated and passionate post...

Part of the reason I had to try Angell frames is Paul is an engineer, like my Dad. Someone who worked for the big companies for decades but had to work under board room decisions rather than what may or may not be the more ideal design decisions (there is always a tradeoff). He still found a way to do some great things... and years later went out on his own with a small company so he could do things his way. When the ALS disease forced him into retirement he still did some expert consulting.

My Dad was my first tennis coach and hed taken lessons but probably never better than a 3.0 and I remember beating him for the first time when I was 6 or so. Last year I got to show him one of my Angell frames and though he could barely walk wanted to watch me hit with it. He loved the story about an engineer doing it his way and the practical way Paul has gone about making his frames for a customer base that other companies seem to have lost touch with.

He died a few days ago... the disease having not yet taken all of his autonomy... but rapidly progressing.

Life is too short to do things in a way that is throwaway culture and planned obsolescence....

That's all, I will miss him and years ago he gave my his Tony Trabert Wilson Stylist... Yes Ive hit with it... what a beast of a stick. It reminded me a lot of the TC95 except with a tiny 60sq inch head (dang could it serve and hit huge forehands).

Life is too short to not play the game the way you want to. Salutes and big serves Dad... I'll miss you
Condolences with the loss of your father, BC. I wish you all strength these sad days.
 

Automatix

Hall of Fame
Ok an almost unrelated and passionate post...

Part of the reason I had to try Angell frames is Paul is an engineer, like my Dad. Someone who worked for the big companies for decades but had to work under board room decisions rather than what may or may not be the more ideal design decisions (there is always a tradeoff). He still found a way to do some great things... and years later went out on his own with a small company so he could do things his way. When the ALS disease forced him into retirement he still did some expert consulting.

My Dad was my first tennis coach and hed taken lessons but probably never better than a 3.0 and I remember beating him for the first time when I was 6 or so. Last year I got to show him one of my Angell frames and though he could barely walk wanted to watch me hit with it. He loved the story about an engineer doing it his way and the practical way Paul has gone about making his frames for a customer base that other companies seem to have lost touch with.

He died a few days ago... the disease having not yet taken all of his autonomy... but rapidly progressing.

Life is too short to do things in a way that is throwaway culture and planned obsolescence....

That's all, I will miss him and years ago he gave my his Tony Trabert Wilson Stylist... Yes Ive hit with it... what a beast of a stick. It reminded me a lot of the TC95 except with a tiny 60sq inch head (dang could it serve and hit huge forehands).

Life is too short to not play the game the way you want to. Salutes and big serves Dad... I'll miss you
Sincere condolences.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
Ok an almost unrelated and passionate post...

Part of the reason I had to try Angell frames is Paul is an engineer, like my Dad. Someone who worked for the big companies for decades but had to work under board room decisions rather than what may or may not be the more ideal design decisions (there is always a tradeoff). He still found a way to do some great things... and years later went out on his own with a small company so he could do things his way. When the ALS disease forced him into retirement he still did some expert consulting.

My Dad was my first tennis coach and hed taken lessons but probably never better than a 3.0 and I remember beating him for the first time when I was 6 or so. Last year I got to show him one of my Angell frames and though he could barely walk wanted to watch me hit with it. He loved the story about an engineer doing it his way and the practical way Paul has gone about making his frames for a customer base that other companies seem to have lost touch with.

He died a few days ago... the disease having not yet taken all of his autonomy... but rapidly progressing.

Life is too short to do things in a way that is throwaway culture and planned obsolescence....

That's all, I will miss him and years ago he gave my his Tony Trabert Wilson Stylist... Yes Ive hit with it... what a beast of a stick. It reminded me a lot of the TC95 except with a tiny 60sq inch head (dang could it serve and hit huge forehands).

Life is too short to not play the game the way you want to. Salutes and big serves Dad... I'll miss you
We're all just passengers here, and I truly believe in existence of Spirit and in longevity of our souls, far beyond our earthly episodes here. And that what's live cannot die, as much as what's not cannot be. So life is eternal and existence is eternal, and your father is very much alive even if he's no longer on this map . However, we do miss and we will miss our dearest as we do like having them here, as long as we are here. But this episode is timed, for them and for us. My condolences BC.
 
Condolences with the loss of your father, BC. I wish you all strength these sad days.
Thanks all, I dont want to derail things here... I was able to hit around yesterday a bit and I felt better. Tennis is good for that, just concentrating on the feeling of hitting the ball well. It is a game of inherent immediacy that also builds memories.
 
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joohan

Hall of Fame
Ok an almost unrelated and passionate post...

Part of the reason I had to try Angell frames is Paul is an engineer, like my Dad. Someone who worked for the big companies for decades but had to work under board room decisions rather than what may or may not be the more ideal design decisions (there is always a tradeoff). He still found a way to do some great things... and years later went out on his own with a small company so he could do things his way. When the ALS disease forced him into retirement he still did some expert consulting.

My Dad was my first tennis coach and hed taken lessons but probably never better than a 3.0 and I remember beating him for the first time when I was 6 or so. Last year I got to show him one of my Angell frames and though he could barely walk wanted to watch me hit with it. He loved the story about an engineer doing it his way and the practical way Paul has gone about making his frames for a customer base that other companies seem to have lost touch with.

He died a few days ago... the disease having not yet taken all of his autonomy... but rapidly progressing.

Life is too short to do things in a way that is throwaway culture and planned obsolescence....

That's all, I will miss him and years ago he gave my his Tony Trabert Wilson Stylist... Yes Ive hit with it... what a beast of a stick. It reminded me a lot of the TC95 except with a tiny 60sq inch head (dang could it serve and hit huge forehands).

Life is too short to not play the game the way you want to. Salutes and big serves Dad... I'll miss you
My heart is with you. I've just got wasted with my dad watching under 21 year old football(soccer) Euro championships after a serve practice with my TC100. The frame is a bliss but having my dad patiently waiting for me and listening to my superior (soccer related) intelligence while drinking rum with a beer back...that's irreplaceable. You're never an adult until you lose your parents...as they say...
 
Ok an almost unrelated and passionate post...

Part of the reason I had to try Angell frames is Paul is an engineer, like my Dad. Someone who worked for the big companies for decades but had to work under board room decisions rather than what may or may not be the more ideal design decisions (there is always a tradeoff). He still found a way to do some great things... and years later went out on his own with a small company so he could do things his way. When the ALS disease forced him into retirement he still did some expert consulting.

My Dad was my first tennis coach and hed taken lessons but probably never better than a 3.0 and I remember beating him for the first time when I was 6 or so. Last year I got to show him one of my Angell frames and though he could barely walk wanted to watch me hit with it. He loved the story about an engineer doing it his way and the practical way Paul has gone about making his frames for a customer base that other companies seem to have lost touch with.

He died a few days ago... the disease having not yet taken all of his autonomy... but rapidly progressing.

Life is too short to do things in a way that is throwaway culture and planned obsolescence....

That's all, I will miss him and years ago he gave my his Tony Trabert Wilson Stylist... Yes Ive hit with it... what a beast of a stick. It reminded me a lot of the TC95 except with a tiny 60sq inch head (dang could it serve and hit huge forehands).

Life is too short to not play the game the way you want to. Salutes and big serves Dad... I'll miss you
You are among the best contributors to this forum and I am truly sorry for your loss. Process here all you like/need. Best, BHBH


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