The Official Angell Users Club

7zero

Semi-Pro
It's very tough to resell custom frames to others....it goes against the entire concept of buying a custom frame in the first place. Most of the guys here want a frame for their own individual specs, so it won't be easy to resell them. I have also seen used ones sell here for an average price of around $130-140, so count on a sizable loss if you do find a willing buyer.
I disagree: Angell are custom to some extent - they are not tailor made to your specific order. And - what is excellent - their weight holding system in hairpin is very practical to play around with them and get it to specification you would like to have. Much better than tuning retail racquet with led tape and silicon gel. I am a proof of it: I bought 352g loaded timberjack axe on second hand market and tuned it to my prefered set-up in just one hour or so. So I think buying used one and modifying it is great option to find out if this is racquet for you. I guess re-sale loss will be much less this way if you do not like it.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
I disagree: Angell are custom to some extent - they are not tailor made to your specific order. And - what is excellent - their weight holding system in hairpin is very practical to play around with them and get it to specification you would like to have. Much better than tuning retail racquet with led tape and silicon gel. I am a proof of it: I bought 352g loaded timberjack axe on second hand market and tuned it to my prefered set-up in just one hour or so. So I think buying used one and modifying it is great option to find out if this is racquet for you. I guess re-sale loss will be much less this way if you do not like it.
Not everyone want to mess with taking the pallet apart. Yes you can mess with the weights in the hairpin, but there is the risk of breaking the pallet. But yes I agree that buying a used one and then reselling it wouldn't amount to a big loss...assuming you got a good deal on one yourself. Just like buying and reselling any other used racquet.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
I disagree: Angell are custom to some extent - they are not tailor made to your specific order. And - what is excellent - their weight holding system in hairpin is very practical
You bring up another related point. Are all Angell frames of one model...lets say the TC95...all the same exact stock frame before being built to order? Since they go from 290-330 grams unstrung, do all these start with an unstrung frame of no more than 290 and just weighted up to your desired specs? So is a 330 gram unstrung frame just a 290 gram frame with 40 grams of lead in the hairpin?
 

Surion

Hall of Fame
It's very tough to resell custom frames to others....it goes against the entire concept of buying a custom frame in the first place. Most of the guys here want a frame for their own individual specs, so it won't be easy to resell them. I have also seen used ones sell here for an average price of around $130-140, so count on a sizable loss if you do find a willing buyer.
Angell frames are the easiest ones to resell here.
Just check how fast they are sold once they show up.
 

JediMindTrick

Hall of Fame
You bring up another related point. Are all Angell frames of one model...lets say the TC95...all the same exact stock frame before being built to order? Since they go from 290-330 grams unstrung, do all these start with an unstrung frame of no more than 290 and just weighted up to your desired specs? So is a 330 gram unstrung frame just a 290 gram frame with 40 grams of lead in the hairpin?
From what I read about them the answer is yes, they are like pro stocks, they come very light and then Paul just adds weight to the handle to get the desired weight and balance. Also they come with healthy swingweights because of the foam and the CAP grommets so Paul doesn't add any weight to the head, only to the handle. But I don't have any inside info, it's just what I read so I might be wrong.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Angell frames are the easiest ones to resell here.
Just check how fast they are sold once they show up.
Maybe true for the 95 & 97? I had my TC100 up for almost a week at 140 with no bites until I dropped it to 135. And that was a mint condition one with new grip/grommet/cap color kit too and just strung.
Also, you are paying over 225 USD for them and I have almost never seen them resold for more than 150. Just like brand new Wilsons that went for 200 routinely sell used for 120-130. You have to take about
a 35% loss when you resell a new racquet on the used market.
 

7zero

Semi-Pro
Not everyone want to mess with taking the pallet apart. Yes you can mess with the weights in the hairpin, but there is the risk of breaking the pallet. But yes I agree that buying a used one and then reselling it wouldn't amount to a big loss...assuming you got a good deal on one yourself. Just like buying and reselling any other used racquet.
well, this was my first customization job to be fair, and I am not typical DIY person either. It is not that complicated as the hairpin has slots for square weights. just calculate and fiddle a bit but only complication was I had to buy upholster stapler for 7 Eur or so in the hardware shop. I will make tutorial later I guess because I could not find any video about how to do it before. It is really easy. My second hand cost me 150 EUR as compare to 200-220 what would be new one. Worth a risk I guess
 

7zero

Semi-Pro
You bring up another related point. Are all Angell frames of one model...lets say the TC95...all the same exact stock frame before being built to order? Since they go from 290-330 grams unstrung, do all these start with an unstrung frame of no more than 290 and just weighted up to your desired specs? So is a 330 gram unstrung frame just a 290 gram frame with 40 grams of lead in the hairpin?
yes
 

sma1001

Hall of Fame
There is about a 10-point range in swingweight that, at least in my understanding, is inherent in the production of the hairpins.
Yes - but you can't specify the swingweight as such (albeit Angell will pick one out for you that's close to your preferred outcome). The customisation that is enabled by the weights is the overall static weight and balance, not swingweight.
 

supineAnimation

Hall of Fame
Yes - but you can't specify the swingweight as such (albeit Angell will pick one out for you that's close to your preferred outcome). The customisation that is enabled by the weights is the overall static weight and balance, not swingweight.
Right, but the question was whether the frames, but for those added weights on the pallet, are identical. That's not the case because of the difference in swingweights.
 

7zero

Semi-Pro
Yes - but you can't specify the swingweight as such (albeit Angell will pick one out for you that's close to your preferred outcome). The customisation that is enabled by the weights is the overall static weight and balance, not swingweight.
well let's not make it too complicated: SW is function of weight and balance right? unless you want some extreme setup you can play with weights in 4 holes to get it where you want - if you have a look at Angell tennis web there is configurator and you see ehre it can get you. if not enough - there is still lead tape..
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
well, this was my first customization job to be fair, and I am not typical DIY person either. It is not that complicated as the hairpin has slots for square weights. just calculate and fiddle a bit but only complication was I had to buy upholster stapler for 7 Eur or so in the hardware shop. I will make tutorial later I guess because I could not find any video about how to do it before. It is really easy. My second hand cost me 150 EUR as compare to 200-220 what would be new one. Worth a risk I guess
No it's not complicated but I know guys that bring their racquets into the shop for grip replacement, believe it or not. The pallet removal is probably the trickiest part, since they are so brittle, but if you are careful and go slow, it's not too bad.
 

sma1001

Hall of Fame
Right, but the question was whether the frames, but for those added weights on the pallet, are identical. That's not the case because of the difference in swingweights.
The question was whether they are all the same model - which they are. The same model isn't the same as saying they are all identical.
 

sma1001

Hall of Fame
well let's not make it too complicated: SW is function of weight and balance right? unless you want some extreme setup you can play with weights in 4 holes to get it where you want - if you have a look at Angell tennis web there is configurator and you see ehre it can get you. if not enough - there is still lead tape..
I was merely responding to the point that had been made to me about swingweights. I wasn't looking to introduce that variable as such.

EDIT: as it happens i'm not sure that SW is a direct function of weight and balance, but i could be wrong about that.
 

JediMindTrick

Hall of Fame
Right, but the question was whether the frames, but for those added weights on the pallet, are identical. That's not the case because of the difference in swingweights.
That's true but that's always the case even with pro stock frames, no factory cannot produce frames that have identical swingweights, there has to be some tolerance. The 295 to 305 range means + or - 1.6% error, which is pretty amazing, so they are considered to be identical.
 

7zero

Semi-Pro
I was merely responding to the point that had been made to me about swingweights. I wasn't looking to introduce that variable as such.

EDIT: as it happens i'm not sure that SW is a direct function of weight and balance, but i could be wrong about that.
I am not an expert either - there are thousands of them on TT so they will surely come to help us, but I cannot think up anything else what should change SW apart from this two variables
 

supineAnimation

Hall of Fame
I was merely responding to the point that had been made to me about swingweights. I wasn't looking to introduce that variable as such.

EDIT: as it happens i'm not sure that SW is a direct function of weight and balance, but i could be wrong about that.
It's not. The weight and balance you choose has no bearing on swingweight, according to Paul.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Welcome to my world when it comes to buying an Angell. Probability (and hence improbability) keeps interfering with my "decision" on which one to get, and then whether to take the plunge. Just when i'm convinced, someone draws an analogy to another stick that either attracts me to a choice, or puts me off...
The whole point of buying an Angell frame is that you already know what you want. It's for players that know their specs/needs and don't have a million questions about every detail.
 

scotus

G.O.A.T.
From what I read about them the answer is yes, they are like pro stocks, they come very light and then Paul just adds weight to the handle to get the desired weight and balance. Also they come with healthy swingweights because of the foam and the CAP grommets so Paul doesn't add any weight to the head, only to the handle. But I don't have any inside info, it's just what I read so I might be wrong.
I wasn't aware that Angell has started using CAP grommets. Since when?
 

JediMindTrick

Hall of Fame
I wasn't aware that Angell has started using CAP grommets. Since when?
They call them "Over frame grommet structure" which really means wider grommets at the sides of the frame, kind of light CAP grommets. You can see them in the pictures. I think that they are a great idea, because they increase the twistweight thus making the racquet more stable, plus you can hide the lead tape under them if you need to.
 

scotus

G.O.A.T.
They call them "Over frame grommet structure" which really means wider grommets at the sides of the frame, kind of light CAP grommets. You can see them in the pictures. I think that they are a great idea, because they increase the twistweight thus making the racquet more stable, plus you can hide the lead tape under them if you need to.
Oh I see what you mean. Same old grommets, though.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Really?

So what would be your ideal resale price then?
So what's your point in the 1st sentence that you chopped off? My point was that we are so used to racquet demos everywhere else in the tennis
racquet buying universe, that it's very unusual to not have any demos before buying Angell racquets. Do you disagree?

Secondly, why does it matter what my "ideal price" is? You can only get what the market is willing to pay. For Angell racquets, its slightly more
than others, but you will still take at least a 25% loss on your purchase price.
 

joohan

Hall of Fame
So what's your point in the 1st sentence that you chopped off? My point was that we are so used to racquet demos everywhere else in the tennis
racquet buying universe, that it's very unusual to not have any demos before buying Angell racquets. Do you disagree?

Secondly, why does it matter what my "ideal price" is? You can only get what the market is willing to pay. For Angell racquets, its slightly more
than others, but you will still take at least a 25% loss on your purchase price.
My point is that demos are may be readily available in your universe, not all around the world. I, for instance, have never demoed a tennis racquet because my zip-code is(was) outside regular demo program zone of all major retailers.

It does not matter what your ideal price is and you get only what market is willing to pay. That goes for almost everything you buy brand new, maybe save some vintage/collectible items so I don't really see the point of complaining about it. It's sort of a collateral damage when operating on for sale/for trade forums.
 

MatthewH.

Rookie
I'm very close to buying an Angell online - would you recommend the TC95 or TC97 for a groundstroker (medium topspin) with a big flat first serve? Played with a Head Pro Tour 280 back in college. Also, I'm thinking about going with the 70RA for extra pop on the serve?
 

sma1001

Hall of Fame
The whole point of buying an Angell frame is that you already know what you want. It's for players that know their specs/needs and don't have a million questions about every detail.
This misunderstands the point i was making. You can know you prefer a given weight and balance, even string pattern, but you don't know how that will play in any given stick until you hit with it. That after all is what these boards are all about. People are seeking information on how one stick plays as against another, You can't tell that from specs alone and it's not dictated solely by head size either. So the difference between a 16/19 TC95 and a 16/19 TC97 isn't simply the head size or RA (albeit they are a factor), it's about how each responds in the hit. There is lots written about that. My point was simply that absent hitting both it's difficult to know what you will prefer. No part of that is a million questions about every detail. Indeed your subsequent post acknowledged that you can't speak on the 97 and that you may get one next time - hence demonstrating i think that you too acknowledge that you'd need to hit them to know, and that perhaps the TC97 could be "better" for you. That's all i was saying: it would be good to spend some time with both to be able to make a more informed judgement. In the case of other sticks we'd simply get a demo of each and decide from there. The absence of that makes the choice more of a dilemma.
 

7zero

Semi-Pro
It's not. The weight and balance you choose has no bearing on swingweight, according to Paul.
I think you are wrong here: it is function of these two. What you say Paul said is just the fact that as he increases the weight, he is moving it more to the handle e.g. making it more headlight. By this compensation overall SW stays give or take same. Lighter racquet are less headlight, heavier more headlight. Just see Angell configurator and Specs of different weigh for a racquet.
 

RollTrackTake

Professional
This misunderstands the point i was making. You can know you prefer a given weight and balance, even string pattern, but you don't know how that will play in any given stick until you hit with it. That after all is what these boards are all about. People are seeking information on how one stick plays as against another, You can't tell that from specs alone and it's not dictated solely by head size either. So the difference between a 16/19 TC95 and a 16/19 TC97 isn't simply the head size or RA (albeit they are a factor), it's about how each responds in the hit. There is lots written about that. My point was simply that absent hitting both it's difficult to know what you will prefer. No part of that is a million questions about every detail. Indeed your subsequent post acknowledged that you can't speak on the 97 and that you may get one next time - hence demonstrating i think that you too acknowledge that you'd need to hit them to know, and that perhaps the TC97 could be "better" for you. That's all i was saying: it would be good to spend some time with both to be able to make a more informed judgement. In the case of other sticks we'd simply get a demo of each and decide from there. The absence of that makes the choice more of a dilemma.
This is spot on. I wish I could have tried out a TC 97, 95 & 100 prior to ordering. I went with the 100 because I thought it would fit my play better. After playing with it for almost a month I wonder if the 97 or 95 would be a better fit. I'm not going to take another $240 plunge so I may never know. As far as knowing my specs, I ordered an Angell with the same specs I have my other racquets tuned to except swing weight. The TC 100 is just not what I'd hoped for. IMO that's just the cost of being an over-indulged racquetholic. There is no mention of demos on the web site so it is what it is.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
This misunderstands the point i was making. You can know you prefer a given weight and balance, even string pattern, but you don't know how that will play in any given stick until you hit with it. That after all is what these boards are all about. People are seeking information on how one stick plays as against another, You can't tell that from specs alone and it's not dictated solely by head size either. So the difference between a 16/19 TC95 and a 16/19 TC97 isn't simply the head size or RA (albeit they are a factor), it's about how each responds in the hit. There is lots written about that. My point was simply that absent hitting both it's difficult to know what you will prefer. No part of that is a million questions about every detail. Indeed your subsequent post acknowledged that you can't speak on the 97 and that you may get one next time - hence demonstrating i think that you too acknowledge that you'd need to hit them to know, and that perhaps the TC97 could be "better" for you. That's all i was saying: it would be good to spend some time with both to be able to make a more informed judgement. In the case of other sticks we'd simply get a demo of each and decide from there. The absence of that makes the choice more of a dilemma.
You are overthinking what I said. I am fine with the TC95. At this point I'd just be messing around and trying another frame. It's not mission critical for me. I prefer a flex in the upper 50s, so deciding to buy the TC95 was really not that tough of a decision. I don't need a demo personally. It's not a dilemma at all for me.
 

sma1001

Hall of Fame
I think you are wrong here: it is function of these two. What you say Paul said is just the fact that as he increases the weight, he is moving it more to the handle e.g. making it more headlight. By this compensation overall SW stays give or take same. Lighter racquet are less headlight, heavier more headlight. Just see Angell configurator and Specs of different weigh for a racquet.
If the weight is added at the "pivot point" - which is a point on the handle i believe (10 cm?) - it will make no difference to the SW. As most of Paul's weights are added close to that point they make only a marginal difference to SW. Contrast that with weight added at the tip - which has a large impact on SW (relatively speaking).
 

7zero

Semi-Pro
If the weight is added at the "pivot point" - which is a point on the handle i believe (10 cm?) - it will make no difference to the SW. As most of Paul's weights are added close to that point they make only a marginal difference to SW. Contrast that with weight added at the tip - which has a large impact on SW (relatively speaking).
I see nothing wrong on what you wrote. But at the same time as you load weight on that point you are increasing static weight AND headlightness of the setup. all makes sense to me
 
If the weight is added at the "pivot point" - which is a point on the handle i believe (10 cm?) - it will make no difference to the SW. As most of Paul's weights are added close to that point they make only a marginal difference to SW. Contrast that with weight added at the tip - which has a large impact on SW (relatively speaking).
Correct
 

supineAnimation

Hall of Fame
I think you are wrong here: it is function of these two. What you say Paul said is just the fact that as he increases the weight, he is moving it more to the handle e.g. making it more headlight. By this compensation overall SW stays give or take same. Lighter racquet are less headlight, heavier more headlight. Just see Angell configurator and Specs of different weigh for a racquet.
Again, I'm just relaying what I was told directly from the man who runs the company, and I have no vested interest in it one way or the other. You don't wanna believe it? Don't. But I assume the man knows what he's talking about when it comes to the frames he sells.
 
Weight added to the handle has a neglible (not NO, rather NEGLIGBLE) effect on SW. :) BHBH
That's why when Im adding weight to tune the frame I used only very small amounts at 12, 3 & 9, the throat and to the butt of the frame Under the trap door. Up to 357g... at 8.5pts HL its pretty whippy. I got to play yesterday... update to my thread soon. I can say this TC95 63RA 16x19 is definitely my new stick now. Not lacking in any department now that it is up in weight and has the right grip size. I added a Becker leather grip andIve got to say this thing really is best with minimal dampener or none at all and leather grip for great feel.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
This misunderstands the point i was making. You can know you prefer a given weight and balance, even string pattern, but you don't know how that will play in any given stick until you hit with it. That after all is what these boards are all about. People are seeking information on how one stick plays as against another, You can't tell that from specs alone and it's not dictated solely by head size either. So the difference between a 16/19 TC95 and a 16/19 TC97 isn't simply the head size or RA (albeit they are a factor), it's about how each responds in the hit. There is lots written about that. My point was simply that absent hitting both it's difficult to know what you will prefer. No part of that is a million questions about every detail. Indeed your subsequent post acknowledged that you can't speak on the 97 and that you may get one next time - hence demonstrating i think that you too acknowledge that you'd need to hit them to know, and that perhaps the TC97 could be "better" for you. That's all i was saying: it would be good to spend some time with both to be able to make a more informed judgement. In the case of other sticks we'd simply get a demo of each and decide from there. The absence of that makes the choice more of a dilemma.
Specs are only part of the story. I have tried a few racquets before that had the exact specs I was looking for and for whatever reason, the racquet didn't work for me.
I have also had the opposite happen where I really liked a racquet with specs that I normally wouldn't go for. That is why actual demos to hit with would be extremely valuable here. Sure you can take a chance and order a racquet with your normal preferred specs, but until you actually play with it, you won't know if the racquets exactly what you were hoping for. Even if you do ask a lot of questions, there's still no substitute for actually playing with a racquet.
 

7zero

Semi-Pro
Again, I'm just relaying what I was told directly from the man who runs the company, and I have no vested interest in it one way or the other. You don't wanna believe it? Don't. But I assume the man knows what he's talking about when it comes to the frames he sells.
must be my bad english or your troubles with written text understanding - I am not oposing what Paul said to you - I just tried to explain there is no contradiction on what he said and what i wrote to you. I give up, must be my english, I am off to hit with Angell instead of evAngellism
 
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supineAnimation

Hall of Fame
must be my bad english or your troubles with written text understanding - I am not oposing what Paul said to you - I just tried to explain there is no contradiction on what he said and what i wrote to you. I give up, must be my english, I am off to hit with Angell instead of evAngellism
Must be. I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
 

Hansen

Semi-Pro
a general question:
since the stringbed in the tc 95 16x19 seems very open, how long till the stings break in comparison to other racquets?
normal for a 16x19 or a string killer like the rf 97a for example?
 
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