The Official Angell Users Club

Hansen said:
a general question:
since the stringbed in the tc 95 16x19 seems very open, how long till the stings break in comparison to other racquets?
normal for a 16x19 or a string killer like the rf 97a for example?
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The tc95 is rather open but so far no broken strings... im not a string breaker though and im using full poly at lower tension.
 
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Sorry to spoil the party Backhanded Compliment but i cant get dialed in on my tc95.. I get a rubbery Donnay feeling and it does not feel right.. Specs fit perfectly on paper and i am a ps85/Pacific90/6,1 95 user, and i love thin feel frames... So annoying
 
morten said:
Sorry to spoil the party Backhanded Compliment but i cant get dialed in on my tc95.. I get a rubbery Donnay feeling and it does not feel right.. Specs fit perfectly on paper and i am a ps85/Pacific90/6,1 95 user, and i love thin feel frames... So annoying
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Both Donnay and Angell have similar foam filled frames...probably why they felt the same to you. Another example of where just knowing your specs isn't enough.
 
Not everyone is going to like low flex foam filled frames. It's not rocket science. If every single person liked the same racquet these Angells would cost $500 a stick.

I'll take a custom frame at $200 plus shipping over paying more just to have a demo program that will be difficult to implement.
 
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Power Player said:
Not everyone is going to like low flex foam filled frames. It's not rocket science. If every single person liked the same racquet these Angells would cost $500 a stick.

I'll take a custom frame at $200 plus shipping over paying more just to have a demo program that will be difficult to implement.
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You got lucky and ordered one for your specs and liked it. If you didn't like how it played after spending over 225, I think you would be singing a different tune.
Besides, how difficult is a demo program to implement?
 
morten said:
Sorry to spoil the party Backhanded Compliment but i cant get dialed in on my tc95.. I get a rubbery Donnay feeling and it does not feel right.. Specs fit perfectly on paper and i am a ps85/Pacific90/6,1 95 user, and i love thin feel frames... So annoying
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Wonder if the stiffer TC95 would be your cup of tea?
 
JackB1 said:
You got lucky and ordered one for your specs and liked it. If you didn't like how it played after spending over 225, I think you would be singing a different tune.
Besides, how difficult is a demo program to implement?
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Are you serious? It is very difficult to implement such a program. Do you have any idea how distribution works? Let's add to the fact that these are custom frames so even if they did somehow have them, somebody like yourself would be requesting a spec that was not available in the demo bin and we would be back to full circle. Again, I go back to buying custom guitars - there are no demos for these either, they are usually 3 grand or more, and some of the best builders in the world are not in the US. Imagine making that purchase. Yet many players do, and many times it is just by word of mouth since there are no demos available unless you attend NAMM.

I didn't "get lucky". I just did the research and spent a lot of time with the Tec 315 for ~3 years and I knew what I wanted. It helps that I am not insanely picky about racquets, I generally try something new every 6-8 months so spending $225 and losing ~$75 is not a huge risk for me. There is always a chance you may not like something, but that is what the resale section is for.

Getting lucky would be me buying a used Angell from somebody and hoping his specs somehow clicked with me so I could save a few bucks. That would be luck to me, because the chances of that actually happening are slim.
 
Power Player said:
Are you serious? It is very difficult to implement such a program. Do you have any idea how distribution works? Let's add to the fact that these are custom frames so even if they did somehow have them, somebody like yourself would be requesting a spec that was not available in the demo bin and we would be back to full circle. Again, I go back to buying custom guitars - there are no demos for these either, they are usually 3 grand or more, and some of the best builders in the world are not in the US. Imagine making that purchase. Yet many players do, and many times it is just by word of mouth since there are no demos available unless you attend NAMM.

I didn't "get lucky". I just did the research and spent a lot of time with the Tec 315 for ~3 years and I knew what I wanted. It helps that I am not insanely picky about racquets, I generally try something new every 6-8 months so spending $225 and losing ~$75 is not a huge risk for me. There is always a chance you may not like something, but that is what the resale section is for.

Getting lucky would be me buying a used Angell from somebody and hoping his specs somehow clicked with me so I could save a few bucks. That would be luck to me, because the chances of that actually happening are slim.
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Agreed, Angell provides a custom service at a very reasonable price... that means something has to give. Id rather Paul spent time on getting an 18x20 TC97 available than implement some enormous demo program. A smarter way for Paul would be to have Angell users networked and tell you if there is a player in your area with one... or we can just do that online on this site.

Basically there is no such thing as luck... you either like flexy foam filled frames or you dont... then there are the specific models... often even a demo isnt really enough to tell if a stick is really for you. The custom guitar analogy is completely appropriate too... I have a a custom guitar and I had never played one by the maker till mine arrived. 7 strings, ebony fretboard, no fret markings etc.

After spending 6 years+ being curious about Vantage now Angell frames Im glad I got my TC95 and it will help me make a perfect order on my second frame. It isnt luck, Ive been looking for this it just took me playing with a IG Prestige MP then an X Feel Pro 95 to realize what I really wanted was something with even more flex and a muted foam filled feel. I was an old Max 200g player in the 80's and liked Paul's Dunlop players sticks. So that's not luck... that's having certain tastes. They are not for everyone... and if you think the TC95 is rubbery you have no idea... its a pretty well behaved even flex...My Becker London tour, now that is a noodle. The TC95 is solid but only consider the 63ra if you already like such soft frames. Most players will want the RA 70 (64 strung) much more like the classic prostaff.

Some simply like this sort of stick and the options have dwindled precipitously. We are sharing info to those who have similar tastes.

morten said:
Sorry to spoil the party Backhanded Compliment but i cant get dialed in on my tc95.. I get a rubbery Donnay feeling and it does not feel right.. Specs fit perfectly on paper and i am a ps85/Pacific90/6,1 95 user, and i love thin feel frames... So annoying
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It isnt a party just info sharing and it does take some getting used to (took me 9 outings with mine). The 58 flex is way more than any of the frames you listed. Maybe the RA70 (64 strung makes more sense?). Im now gelling with mine after I got the right pallets on. Now I am onto strings but not everyone can love every frame. For me though the TC95 seems like it has what Im looking for.
 
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Backhanded Compliment said:
Agreed, Angell provides a custom service at a very reasonable price... that means something has to give. Id rather Paul spent time on getting an 18x20 TC97 available than implement some enormous demo program. A smarter way for Paul would be to have Angell users networked and tell you if there is a player in your area with one... or we can just do that online on this site.

Basically there is no such thing as luck... you either like flexy foam filled frames or you dont... then there are the specific models... often even a demo isnt really enough to tell if a stick is really for you. The custom guitar analogy is completely appropriate too... I have a a custom guitar and I had never played one by the maker till mine arrived. 7 strings, ebony fretboard, no fret markings etc.

After spending 6 years+ being curious about Vantage now Angell frames Im glad I got my TC95 and it will help me make a perfect order on my second frame. It isnt luck, Ive been looking for this it just took me playing with a IG Prestige MP then an X Feel Pro 95 to realize what I really wanted was something with even more flex and a muted foam filled feel. I was an old Max 200g player in the 80's and liked Paul's Dunlop players sticks. So that's not luck... that's having certain tastes. They are not for everyone... and if you think the TC95 is rubbery you have no idea... its a pretty well behaved even flex...My Becker London tour, now that is a noodle. The TC95 is solid but only consider the 63ra if you already like such soft frames. Most players will want the RA 70 (64 strung) much more like the classic prostaff.

It is not a party... some simply like this sort of stick and the options have dwindled precipitously. We are sharing info to those who have similar tastes.
Click to expand...

Is the TC95 RA63 softer than the X Feel Pro?
 
JediMindTrick said:
Is the TC95 RA63 softer than the X Feel Pro?
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Absolutely and quite noticeably... the strung RA of 57-58 of my TC95 is very different than the 61 of the XFP95 It took some getting used to on groundstrokes but we are grooving now.

morten said:
It is the stiff tc95....
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Well then it just isnt your thing... we all want these things to work out but I was prepared to be disappointed with the TC95... happily I wasnt. That's the problem... not enough maakers fof flexier frames to choose from... Angell is one of the last resorts and if that doesnt gel... then its very annoying. I feel that pain.
 
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JackB1 said:
Both Donnay and Angell have similar foam filled frames...probably why they felt the same to you. Another example of where just knowing your specs isn't enough.
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I dont think it is the foam.... RFAutograph has foam, i like that, and other with foam... Personally i dont think foam filled is magic...
 
morten said:
I dont think it is the foam.... RFAutograph has foam, i like that, and other with foam... Personally i dont think foam filled is magic...
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RF is partial foam and waaay stiffer than the TC95 options.

Personally, I avoided foam frames all these years because the Max200G made them feel tinny by comparison. Foam is a tricky thing.
 
Backhanded Compliment said:
Agreed, Angell provides a custom service at a very reasonable price... that means something has to give. Id rather Paul spent time on getting an 18x20 TC97 available than implement some enormous demo program. A smarter way for Paul would be to have Angell users networked and tell you if there is a player in your area with one... or we can just do that online on this site.
Click to expand...
I agree. I also think a TC97 18x20 would be a nice option. Maybe we can start a petition for such a frame?
 
Backhanded Compliment said:
RF is partial foam and waaay stiffer than the TC95 options.
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Yes... But i got a strange vibration when i hit outside the sweetspot... I actually now like the Prince tour95 and Babolat pure control 95 (both a bit leaded)more than TC95, and they are really soft. I really wanted to like it, but i have not given up completely yet.. Maybe i should have got the soft one..?
 
morten said:
Yes... But i got a strange vibration when i hit outside the sweetspot... I actually now like the Prince tour95 and Babolat pure control 95 both a bit leaded more than TC95... I really wanted to like it, but i have not given up completely yet...
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yeah that is weird, not my experience at all... did you get it new? Ive heard they are quite string sensitive, what is it strung with? I also have mine up to 357g. Frankly I have a hard time not finding the sweetspot after the X feel pro 95.
 
morten said:
I dont think it is the foam.... RFAutograph has foam, i like that, and other with foam... Personally i dont think foam filled is magic...
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree. Foam filled is not magic by any means. It does seem to dampen vibration a lot for me as I have a rather stiff Yonex 98 frame that has a foam filled handle and it never gave me discomfort. That being said, there is no magic frame. Just one that checks the boxes you are looking for.

To compound it, I have seen hollow pro staffs and then some filled with foam. So it's like a giant mystery sometimes as to if you would like that feel or not.
 
Backhanded Compliment said:
Absolutely and quite noticeably... the strung RA of 57-58 of my TC95 is very different than the 61 of the XFP95 It took some getting used to on groundstrokes but we are grooving now.
Click to expand...

Between the 61 flex of the XFP95 and the 55 flex of the London Tour, where would you say that the flex of the TC95 falls in, is it closer to the XFP95, closer to the London Tour or is it smack in the middle?
 
JediMindTrick said:
Between the 61 flex of the XFP95 and the 55 flex of the London Tour, where would you say that the flex of the TC95 falls in, is it closer to the XFP95, closer to the London Tour or is it smack in the middle?
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Closer to the Becker london tour which is a 55 i think. Thing is the angell has a very consistent flex. the BbLondon has a lot of flex in certain areas. I find flex below 60 is very noticeable... above is less so. 57 or 58 seems right for my tc95.
 
Power Player said:
Are you serious? It is very difficult to implement such a program. Do you have any idea how distribution works? Let's add to the fact that these are custom frames so even if they did somehow have them, somebody like yourself would be requesting a spec that was not available in the demo bin and we would be back to full circle. Again, I go back to buying custom guitars - there are no demos for these either, they are usually 3 grand or more, and some of the best builders in the world are not in the US. Imagine making that purchase. Yet many players do, and many times it is just by word of mouth since there are no demos available unless you attend NAMM.

I didn't "get lucky". I just did the research and spent a lot of time with the Tec 315 for ~3 years and I knew what I wanted. It helps that I am not insanely picky about racquets, I generally try something new every 6-8 months so spending $225 and losing ~$75 is not a huge risk for me. There is always a chance you may not like something, but that is what the resale section is for.

Getting lucky would be me buying a used Angell from somebody and hoping his specs somehow clicked with me so I could save a few bucks. That would be luck to me, because the chances of that actually happening are slim.
Click to expand...

No I don't have any idea how difficult it would be to set up a demo program, but it seems like everyone else figured it out. And yes, they are custom frames, but you could have a few in each model that are the most popular specs. He only has 5 different models, so do 2 or 3 of each. I know I'm simplifying things, but if Tennis Xpress can do it.... I don't think the analogy to guitars is apples to apples. Close, but not really.
 
JackB1 said:
No I don't have any idea how difficult it would be to set up a demo program, but it seems like everyone else figured it out. And yes, they are custom frames, but you could have a few in each model that are the most popular specs. He only has 5 different models, so do 2 or 3 of each. I know I'm simplifying things, but if Tennis Xpress can do it.... I don't think the analogy to guitars is apples to apples. Close, but not really.
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logically it's just as close as your analogy to comparing custom frames to non custom frames as it is to comparing custom guitars to custom tennis racquets. So close is logically the closest you get.

what it all gets down to is the focus of the business. is it on the frames or the marketing/distro of the frames? clearly Paul has chosen to concentrate on the engineering and design of frames over the marketing.

this makes sense because Word of Mouth seems to be marketing the frames by themselves without a major campaign
 
Backhanded Compliment said:
okay here is a better one, Head's custom frame service does not allow demos either and they are in direct competition with angell.
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I was waiting for Jack to weigh in :)

Well what you wrote is not an analogy, it's a fact. A fact proving that even one of the biggest tennis gear brands does not provide a demo program of their custom(i.e. most personalized and, therefore, luxurious) products. I don't really think this particular topic of discussion deserves any more attention.
 
JackB1 said:
No I don't have any idea how difficult it would be to set up a demo program, but it seems like everyone else figured it out. And yes, they are custom frames, but you could have a few in each model that are the most popular specs. He only has 5 different models, so do 2 or 3 of each. I know I'm simplifying things, but if Tennis Xpress can do it.... I don't think the analogy to guitars is apples to apples. Close, but not really.
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You don't really not understand why a demo program or a wider range of frame options would be economically unfeasible for such a small racquet company, do you? That seems disingenuous.

I do think there's a bit too much worshipping going on in this thread at times, but to suggest that these kinds of expansions would be easy for Angell to do isn't fair. It's not difficult to understand the economy of scale here.
 
joohan said:
Just like my Donnay P1 International. Sweet.
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I just got my final TC97 today and I'll be taking it out for the next week or so with the new Donnay P1 GT demo I have to decide which one I wanna go with.

I really like this P1 GT so the TC97 has some competition. The molds are very similar and they're both foam-filled, so it'll be a tough call. The TC97 strung with head tape and dampener has a SW of 336, whereas the P1 GT is a good 10 points lower, but I like the grip shape on the TC97 better. Should be interesting.
 
Tell me if there is a TC frame that I can custom order that would be better in all areas of the court when going up against the RF97. Stock for stock. If you come up with one I will order it. If not, just tell me and I will buy the RF97
 
Chuonfood said:
Tell me if there is a TC frame that I can custom order that would be better in all areas of the court when going up against the RF97. Stock for stock. If you come up with one I will order it. If not, just tell me and I will buy the RF97
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Nobody can tell you that. Racquet performance is largely subjective. What feels mushy to one is comfortable to another; one player's idea of over-sluggish is perfect plowthrough to another.

But you could certainly spec out a TC97 or TC95 to have similar specs to the RF97.
 
JackB1 said:
No I don't have any idea how difficult it would be to set up a demo program, but it seems like everyone else figured it out. And yes, they are custom frames, but you could have a few in each model that are the most popular specs. He only has 5 different models, so do 2 or 3 of each. I know I'm simplifying things, but if Tennis Xpress can do it.... I don't think the analogy to guitars is apples to apples. Close, but not really.
Click to expand...

So you don't know anything about how difficult it is, but you compare Angell to Tennis Xpress and somehow my comparison to buying a custom instrument is not that close?

Ok.
 
So you have about 50 different variants of the TC95 alone. How would a demo program work exactly? It's a custom racket so by definition demos are not going to be available.
 
JackB1 said:
No I don't have any idea how difficult it would be to set up a demo program, but it seems like everyone else figured it out.
Click to expand...
You guys in the US are spoiled by TW. Here in the UK, a handful of the online shops offer demos for the major brands... but you have to put down a deposit at the new price of the frame. They still limit demos to a week, you usually are only allowed a maximum of two at a time - this is purely because of the logistical issues of demos going walkabout, as clearly they won't be out of pocket. The idea of being able to try out four racquets for the cost of postage is like a wet dream to us!

smirker said:
So you have about 50 different variants of the TC95 alone. How would a demo program work exactly? It's a custom racket so by definition demos are not going to be available.
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Paul actually did start offering demos just before the Vantage rebranding. From what I remember, he offered some of the more common specs with one grip size. There was a cost to demo it - may have been £20 per racquet or so - which you had discounted from your purchase if you went on to buy a frame. I have no idea how much demand there was, but presumably there's a reason he hasn't resurrected it.
 
joohan said:
Oh I almost forgot...

I'd like to apply for a membership in The Official Angell Users Club. A 320g/315mm, 63RA, 18x20 TC95 is on its way.
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Cool, this is exactly my TC95 specs before I added some weight. Lwt us know how it plays for you, cheers!
 
Chuonfood said:
Tell me if there is a TC frame that I can custom order that would be better in all areas of the court when going up against the RF97. Stock for stock. If you come up with one I will order it. If not, just tell me and I will buy the RF97
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Thats impossible to answer as racquets are subjective. I have no idea what you like or what "better in all areas of the court" would mean for you. You have to really know what you want before you order a custom frame.
 
Power Player said:
Thats impossible to answer as racquets are subjective. I have no idea what you like or what "better in all areas of the court" would mean for you. You have to really know what you want before you order a custom frame.
Click to expand...

Ok, here goes.

For the past three years I've been playing with two racquets. First it was the G330 with leather grip (around 355g strung), even though I liked the stability and won many games that year, I then desired for more free power, spin and maneuverability. I then switched over to the Ai98, which weighed ~344g with lead and leather grip. This gave me the spin and maneuverability that I wanted, but lacked plow. I played with the Ai for a year and a half.

I recently demoed the RF and loved it's power, stability, spin, feel, crisp/plush, overall everything but the maneuverability. I feel that my next racquet should be all that the RF gave me but just more maneuverable without taking away from the other big features for me. I'm an all court player, I like to mix up my shots and I have a ohbh.
 
Power Player said:
Yeah I agree. Foam filled is not magic by any means. It does seem to dampen vibration a lot for me as I have a rather stiff Yonex 98 frame that has a foam filled handle and it never gave me discomfort. That being said, there is no magic frame. Just one that checks the boxes you are looking for.

To compound it, I have seen hollow pro staffs and then some filled with foam. So it's like a giant mystery sometimes as to if you would like that feel or not.
Click to expand...

They sometimes use foam to get a frame to spec.... [emoji106]
 
supineAnimation said:
I just got my final TC97 today and I'll be taking it out for the next week or so with the new Donnay P1 GT demo I have to decide which one I wanna go with.

I really like this P1 GT so the TC97 has some competition. The molds are very similar and they're both foam-filled, so it'll be a tough call. The TC97 strung with head tape and dampener has a SW of 336, whereas the P1 GT is a good 10 points lower, but I like the grip shape on the TC97 better. Should be interesting.
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P1 GT is one sweet looking frame, keep us posted. My Donnay is the original 95sq.inch one with fiberglass layup. I will hit it side by side with the TC95 and try to post a summary of some sorts for sure.

Taveren said:
Cool, this is exactly my TC95 specs before I added some weight. Lwt us know how it plays for you, cheers!
Click to expand...

I most certainly will. I might add weight as well since my ideal unstrung weight is 10g heavier and balance 10mm lower.
 
Chuonfood said:
Ok, here goes.

For the past three years I've been playing with two racquets. First it was the G330 with leather grip (around 355g strung), even though I liked the stability and won many games that year, I then desired for more free power, spin and maneuverability. I then switched over to the Ai98, which weighed ~344g with lead and leather grip. This gave me the spin and maneuverability that I wanted, but lacked plow. I played with the Ai for a year and a half.

I recently demoed the RF and loved it's power, stability, spin, feel, crisp/plush, overall everything but the maneuverability. I feel that my next racquet should be all that the RF gave me but just more maneuverable without taking away from the other big features for me. I'm an all court player, I like to mix up my shots and I have a ohbh.
Click to expand...

Well I have not used a TC97 so I don't know the feel. But if you like the RF97 and just want something in your wheel house, then you may like this racquet. The Rf97 is a rather stiff frame from what I remember, and I did not like the feel much. But I do love the feel of the softer TC95 very much. It is a rather open pattern, which is cool, so you can string a little tighter. But if you remember how a lot of RF97 users started putting gut mains in their frame to make it feel better - well I can't imagine you'd have to do that with the TC97.
 
Power Player said:
So you got an Angell and did not make us a sweet vid review? Or am I jumping to conclusions here?
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My Angell TC97 arrived today! Geoff will operate on it tomorrow and I'll hit it Thursday. If a video review is requested it can be arranged! [emoji106][emoji41][emoji462]

I just want to try the 95 with 70 RA as well and sensed Morten might be ready to sell!!! [emoji56][emoji108]
 
BounceHitBounceHit said:
My Angell TC97 arrived today! Geoff will operate on it tomorrow and I'll hit it Thursday. If a video review is requested it can be arranged! [emoji106][emoji41][emoji462]

I just want to try the 95 with 70 RA as well and sensed Morten might be ready to sell!!! [emoji56][emoji108]
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That's awesome. Look forward to it. I am not in Miami but there is a slight chance I am hitting the Open. Logistics are a little tricky for me this year. Are you going?
 
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