The Official Angell Users Club

[joohan]

would this make a huge difference in how the swingweight feels?

It would make a difference for sure. How huge? Depends on where the weight is distributed. It may well be that the difference in circumference in a 2 inch bigger headsize does the trick - graphite, foam fill, layup...not impossible. Just my 2 cents...there are much more educated contributors on the topic here at TT.

 

[DamoUK]

It would make a difference for sure. How huge? Depends on where the weight is distributed. It may well be that the difference in circumference in a 2 inch bigger headsize does the trick - graphite, foam fill, layup...not impossible. Just my 2 cents...there are much more educated contributors on the topic here at TT.

thanks for the input.. thank goodness as thought it was my OHbackhand having an odd couple of weeks! I dont notice it at all on forehands, only OHBHs (not slices) and i notice it slightly on 1st serves, as in i can hit practically eyes closed with the 95 and they go in just fine at a pretty good pace, whereas with the 97 they go in a bit bigger but i have to catch them 'just right' - besides adding more weight which id rather not do i wonder if to make them play the same i need to perhaps make the 97 slightly more headlight?

 

[joohan]

thanks for the input.. thank goodness as thought it was my OHbackhand having an odd couple of weeks! I dont notice it at all on forehands, only OHBHs (not slices) and i notice it slightly on 1st serves, as in i can hit practically eyes closed with the 95 and they go in just fine at a pretty good pace, whereas with the 97 they go in a bit bigger but i have to catch them 'just right' - besides adding more weight which id rather not do i wonder if to make them play the same i need to perhaps make the 97 slightly more headlight?

Again, not exactly an expert right here so take my advice with some caution/wait for somebody more competent to weigh in.

Physics does not lie. You know for sure there is a 9g difference between the two frames. If the 9g difference is somewhere in the racquet head(which is most likely because of the racquet headsize difference) then it does make a swingweight difference you can experience "feelwise".

In your place I would add 9g of leadtape at the bottom of the grip, keeping everything else unchanged, feel for yourself if it makes a difference and adjust from there.

 

[topspn]

question? - has anyone else hit with with both the TC95 and TC97 at same specs to compare yet? im trying to work out why the TC95 feels more headlight when i know that they are matching specs totally! 95 is 70ra and 97 is 66ra, both are 27in length and 330g unstrung and same grips and OGrips strings etc..? when i recently took off pallets to change from grip C to a B i weighed them both without the weights in handle and pallets(only string) and the 95 'bare'weight was 233g and the 97 was 242g, would this make a huge difference in how the swingweight feels?

Yes, I have played with both 330g, 12 HL specs. And the 97 is just a small fraction higher in SW. I don’t think that is what you are feeling because it is a small amount and i can’t imagine someone being that sensitive to it. However, from my experience the TC95 is just a hair quicker. Perhaps what you are feeling a bit more which could be exaggerating the feeling is the dwell time hitting the ball which feels more pronounced in the 97. My two cents but i didn’t think the TC97 was sluggish in anyway, just the TC95 being a hair quicker. So for me it was a very small difference.

 

[The_Racketeer]

question? - has anyone else hit with with both the TC95 and TC97 at same specs to compare yet? im trying to work out why the TC95 feels more headlight when i know that they are matching specs totally! 95 is 70ra and 97 is 66ra, both are 27in length and 330g unstrung and same grips and OGrips strings etc..? when i recently took off pallets to change from grip C to a B i weighed them both without the weights in handle and pallets(only string) and the 95 'bare'weight was 233g and the 97 was 242g, would this make a huge difference in how the swingweight feels?

2 reasons, and they are both per Paul Angell when he and I discussed my racquet. First, the higher stiffness of the TC95 means there's less material in the hoop than in the TC97. Secondly, a smaller Head size will always be more maneuverable. Coupled together, the TC95 should have a noticeably lower swingweight and feel quicker.

 

[DamoUK]

2 reasons, and they are both per Paul Angell when he and I discussed my racquet. First, the higher stiffness of the TC95 means there's less material in the hoop than in the TC97. Secondly, a smaller Head size will always be more maneuverable. Coupled together, the TC95 should have a noticeably lower swingweight and feel quicker.

thanks that makes sense to me..i think i need that extra bit of headspeed in my game.. maybe ill go back to the TC95s in that case

 

[supineAnimation]

Avert your eyes. It may give off a bright light.

 

[supineAnimation]

Oh, and anyone have a link to the TC97 stringing instructions? Or just a quick synopsis of the skips and tie-offs? Thanks.

And yes, I am strongly considering stringing it up today and hitting against a wall even though it's a high of only 32 today. I'm not a smart man.

 

[mxblink]

It's the same as the TC95 16x19. The enlarged tie-off grommets are also very obvious compared to the other ones.

 

[supineAnimation]

It's the same as the TC95 16x19. The enlarged tie-off grommets are also very obvious compared to the other ones.

Awesome. Thanks.

 

[The_Racketeer]

@DamoUK that's the reason I chose the TC95 70RA. I was looking for something very maneuverable and that's exactly what I got. I've never volleyed better than with my TC95, it's so supple at net, yet stable enough to block back hard serves.

@supineAnimation looks so good with the red grommets. If I ever get an Angell with the new paint job I'll most likely get red too. Also, I approve of your dedication to the game despite the cold. If you have fun breaking in your new stick them you made a smart decision, making you a smart man.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

thanks that makes sense to me..i think i need that extra bit of headspeed in my game.. maybe ill go back to the TC95s in that case

or use a thinner gauge string or a slightly lighter vibration dampener and or simply position the dampner less towards the tip. I always fix things with tiny amounts of lead in the handle though. Choose whatever stick you feel most confident with then do micro adjustments.

Ive definitely found my boxier beam prestige mp whips its head slower through the air than my tc95 even though it is more HL so there are aerodynamics too.

 

[Carlos Mansur]

Once again, I can say 95 and 97 are almost the same size... Both use the SAME grommets... One above the other, if nothing was written, one could say they are the same size

PS: Just to be clear... Same bumpers and grommets, etc... same "part number" for both frames

 

[topspn]

Yes, it is certainly quite difficult to detect visually head size difference between the TC95 and TC97. I can swear for the amount of times i laid them on each other I couldn’t see a difference. They both swing amazingly close but you can feel the difference in quick rifle reaction volleys with the TC95 surgical efficiency. It is contact that is truly pronounced between the two with the flex in the head of the TC97 and additional dwell time. The SW between my sticks was two points.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

Yes, it is certainly quite difficult to detect visually head size difference between the TC95 and TC97. I can swear for the amount of times i laid them on each other I couldn’t see a difference. They both swing amazingly close but you can feel the difference in quick rifle reaction volleys with the TC95 surgical efficiency. It is contact that is truly pronounced between the two with the flex in the head of the TC97 and additional dwell time. The SW between my sticks was two points.

From the times people have posed the TC97 and TC95 ontop of eachother It looks like the TC97 is a hair larger.

True there is parallax and I believe most cannot detect the difference in 2 sq inches of headsize surface area but I spend a great deal of time sorting out such details in architectural spaces and I'm pretty sure (that said I havent seen them both in person). I reckon the TC95 is a 96 and the TC97 is more of a true 97 (like James Blake's old prostock). The real difference between the two is the flex profile, feel and power vs accuracy tradeoff. I wanted accuracy so I picked the TC95... because my play is surgical rather than more attrition based.

 

[scotus]

If they both use the same grommets, it would then follow that neither is more open-patterned than the other, correct?

 

[topspn]

From the times people have posed the TC97 and TC95 ontop of eachother It looks like the TC97 is a hair larger.

True there is parallax and I believe most cannot detect the difference in 2 sq inches of headsize surface area but I spend a great deal of time sorting out such details in architectural spaces and I'm pretty sure (that said I havent seen them both in person). I reckon the TC95 is a 96 and the TC97 is more of a true 97 (like James Blake's old prostock). The real difference between the two is the flex profile, feel and power vs accuracy tradeoff. I wanted accuracy so I picked the TC95... because my play is surgical rather than more attrition based.

Yes, that is one of the pictures I posted! I tend to agree that there is some minuscule difference but I honestly couldn’t see the difference and when i tried to be as accurate as possible laying against each other, I couldn’t see it. In this picture, I didn’t have them laying on each other perfectly or you would not have seen a difference this easy. Again, I say that because i tried several times and I tried to be exact in how i compared it is really hard to see any. However the string density is a bit different were you see in the TC97 opens up a bit more. The TC97 certainly feels a bit more lively, flex in head and very comfortable feel. I agree TC95 is generous and plays more forgiving then most think. I ended up picking the 95 and selling my 97s because I too wanted that beautiful precision and I can still dictate as I please with it. I do miss the PJ on the 97, it was just beautiful in that black lacquered look.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

Yes, that is one of the pictures I posted! I tend to agree that there is some minuscule difference but I honestly couldn’t see the difference and when i tried to be as accurate as possible laying against each other, I couldn’t see it. In this picture, I didn’t have them laying on each other perfectly or you would not have seen a difference this easy. Again, I say that because i tried several times and I tried to be exact in how i compared it is really hard to see any. However the string density is a bit different were you see in the TC97 opens up a bit more. The TC97 certainly feels a bit more lively, flex in head and very comfortable feel. I agree TC95 is generous and plays more forgiving then most think. I ended up picking the 95 and selling my 97s because I too wanted that beautiful precision and I can still dictate as I please with it. I do miss the PJ on the 97, it was just beautiful in that black lacquered look.

Omg we are such GeEKs...

It is true they can be slightly different sized even if they use the same grommets and 1 sq inch is difficult to eyeball (but i do this with architecture with some accuracy). The parallax and lens distortion are things that make it hard but that lightly more open tc97 string bed is a giveaway. Im with you on the precision of the tc95. It doesnt beat my pacific/fischer (xpf95 is an all time best laser mp) but it is close. I plan to put up one of my 3 pacifics up for sale.

comparing my o3speedport tour i can see that the tc95 is about 2sq inches smaller than the true 98 prince... not a lot but pretty obvious. The xpf95 (and prestige mp) is about half that difference smaller than the tc95. Thus my best guess is the tc95 is a 96. tc97 might be a true 97. Small difference visually but noticeable on court. Whats more the Tc97 is a visually a lot like James Blake's old 97 inch prostock (but not as soft) soooo...

 

[Bogdan_TT]

2 reasons, and they are both per Paul Angell when he and I discussed my racquet. First, the higher stiffness of the TC95 means there's less material in the hoop than in the TC97. Secondly, a smaller Head size will always be more maneuverable. Coupled together, the TC95 should have a noticeably lower swingweight and feel quicker.

I think that the TC95 63ra will have a bigger SW than a similarly specced TC97. There is a lot of material in the 63 and, at least in my case, the difference of SW between TC95 63 & 70 is 10kg/cm2

 

[Bogdan_TT]

Did any of you try the TC90?
I'd love to do that, but I promised myself that this year I'll only play with my sig spec

 

[supineAnimation]

I didn't get a chance to hit the new TC97 yet, but I strung it up, put in my two grommet dampeners (I've long used two between the middle four mains) head tape and an overgrip. Comes out to 365g strung, exactly 32cm HL and a SW of around 348. The SW is a little higher than I was shooting for (my YTPPs are around 326), but with my TE maybe that's not such a bad thing.

But over 2' snow on the ground, roads not plowed and car buried, so it's gonna be awhile before I can take it out for a test.

Grip feels a tad too big (Paul's synthetic grip seems bulkier than most), so considering swapping that out for something like Prince ResiThin to make it a bit smaller.

 

[nextNalbandian]

I'm sure this has been discussed on here before but while I have all you Angell guys together I figured I'd ask a couple things (from someone who has never used one, or even seen one for that matter). 1. How do the racquets feel/play? Are there any comparisons you can make to other sticks? 2. Are the weights on the site unstrung? I'm assuming that they are 3. How do the grip shapes/sizes correlate? By that I mean how do they correlate to other brands and sizes? (Like Babolats are notoriously larger than size from what I've found). Any info you guys could give me on these would be awesome as I have heard some good things and am looking for a new stick and to get back into tennis. Thanks!

 

[JuliusWinto]

Count me in. I've got a TC100 and a TC97, but playing with the 100. 63ra, Type A Grip, 27 inch,12.2 oz and 6 points headlight. Super solid, tons of power, and I feel like I can't hit the ball out. I've also decided that I simply love playing with sub 60 ra racquets. I'm a quick 4.5 baseliner by the way.

 

[Hansen]

@JuliusWinto
why do you prefer the TC100 (16x19?) over the TC97, and is there a significant difference in flex and comfort between the two ?

 

[JuliusWinto]

I was having some pain in my hand while playing with the 97, which I don't know if it was caused by the racquet or by one big mishit plus a lot of hours on the court. I was playing great with it, but tried out a gut main poly hybrid to give my hand some relief. The gut was strung up tight but I was hitting long a lot which is probably just because I'm used to using full poly. So, I picked my 100 back up and am playing great. I think I've read that the 97 has a stiffer throat and flexier hoop, but I'm not sure it caused the weird thing with my hand. I would definitely say that the racquets feel differently than each other, but they both feet great. If I start playing badly with the 100, I'm sure I will pick up the 97 again. Next time I will just stick with my normal poly.

 

[tallsandwich]

Grip question for you guys. Is the C grip truly even-sided? I have an TC97 with a B grip but I prefer something closer to a Babolat shape. My memory is fuzzy but if I'm not mistaken, before the Angell website was updated with the TC97 release the B was described as Babolat-like. I find B to be more like std Head. Anyway, I definitely don't want even-sided so if that's what C is then I'll stick with B.

 

[JohnBPittsburgh]

If you search Angell threads, somewhere on one of them, there is an explanation of the grip shapes (the thread starts out with people guessing, then someone talked to Paul and posted what he said)

 

[supineAnimation]

Anyone else have any issues with the swingweight of their Angell custom-ordered stick or the thickness of the grip?

 

[topspn]

I have the B handle with a L3 leather grip and it is spot on as far as I am concerned.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

I'm sure this has been discussed on here before but while I have all you Angell guys together I figured I'd ask a couple things (from someone who has never used one, or even seen one for that matter). 1. How do the racquets feel/play? Are there any comparisons you can make to other sticks? 2. Are the weights on the site unstrung? I'm assuming that they are 3. How do the grip shapes/sizes correlate? By that I mean how do they correlate to other brands and sizes? (Like Babolats are notoriously larger than size from what I've found). Any info you guys could give me on these would be awesome as I have heard some good things and am looking for a new stick and to get back into tennis. Thanks!

1) like solider more maneuverable versions of late 90's early aughts Dunlops and Dunlop pro stocks, soft but not squishy or noodles.
2) unstrung yes
3) There is a LOOOONG answer because other manufacturers arent consistent themselves and Angell sizes are not copies of any particular brand but here is the thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-to-angell-vantage-experts-grip-shape.500149/

 

[supineAnimation]

Posted this in the wrong thread first by mistake.

Heard back from Paul and it must be an issue with the iPhone app and/or my technique for measuring swingweight with it, because the swingweight he measured for the frame he made for me was 304. Now, that was unstrung and without dampeners and an overgrip, but there's no way those made it jump 45 points. So I'm gonna wait until I can actually try out the frame and then see if I can figure out a way to get better SW readings from the RacquetTune app. Just didn't want to leave the impression that Paul didn't deliver the specs I ordered.

 

[The_Racketeer]

Grip question for you guys. Is the C grip truly even-sided? I have an TC97 with a B grip but I prefer something closer to a Babolat shape. My memory is fuzzy but if I'm not mistaken, before the Angell website was updated with the TC97 release the B was described as Babolat-like. I find B to be more like std Head. Anyway, I definitely don't want even-sided so if that's what C is then I'll stick with B.

I have the C-grip and yes, it is a square. Similar to Prince grips.

Anyone else have any issues with the swingweight of their Angell custom-ordered stick or the thickness of the grip?

My Angell was spot on what was ordered. All specs are pre-strung, as Paul can't guess what strings, gauge, tension, dampener, and OG you'll choose. He can however, give you estimates based on stringing. For instance, he told me stringing would add about 25 pts of swingweight. If you use heavy strings and dampener and OG I can see the sw going up a good bit.

 

[supineAnimation]

I have the C-grip and yes, it is a square. Similar to Prince grips.



My Angell was spot on what was ordered. All specs are pre-strung, as Paul can't guess what strings, gauge, tension, dampener, and OG you'll choose. He can however, give you estimates based on stringing. For instance, he told me stringing would add about 25 pts of swingweight. If you use heavy strings and dampener and OG I can see the sw going up a good bit.

45 points from that alone would really surprise me, but I guess it's possible. Seems strange considering retail frames with unstrung SWs in the 330s or 340s would be in the 370s or 380s with the most standard additions (strings, dampened and an overgrip) let alone lead tape added.

I add cotton in the handle, lead on the hoop and in the handle, dampeners, and strings and only saw a jump or 20-something points. But then again I used the iPhone app to measure that, too.

 

[topspn]

45 points from that alone would really surprise me, but I guess it's possible. Seems strange considering retail frames with unstrung SWs in the 330s or 340s would be in the 370s or 380s with the most standard additions (strings, dampened and an overgrip) let alone lead tape added.

I add cotton in the handle, lead on the hoop and in the handle, dampeners, and strings and only saw a jump or 20-something points. But then again I used the iPhone app to measure that, too.

Retail frames 330s or 340s SW would be strung

 

[jhusein]

Anyone else have any issues with the swingweight of their Angell custom-ordered stick or the thickness of the grip?

I have the B - L3 - and I know now that I should've ordered L4 (asked Paul for L4 pallets though and I am waiting for his response). All other specs are spot one.

 

[supineAnimation]

Retail frames 330s or 340s SW would be strung

I'm confused then. My YTPPs have a strung weight of around 335g in stock form according to what TW listed when they sold it. I added roughly 25g with an overgrip, dampeners, cotton, and a fair bit of lead tape.

TW listed the swingweight at 320, yet me adding 25g only raised the swingweight to 326. How can that be?

 

[topspn]

I'm confused then. My YTPPs have a strung weight of around 335g in stock form according to what TW listed when they sold it. I added roughly 25g with an overgrip, dampeners, cotton, and a fair bit of lead tape.

TW listed the swingweight at 320, yet me adding 25g only raised the swingweight to 326. How can that be?

I am guessing here without knowing how you measured your SW but chances are your measurement is wrong

 

[supineAnimation]

I am guessing here without knowing how you measured your SW but chances are your measurement is wrong

That's what I'd assumed, but I measured both frames the same way with the same setup and the same app. That's why it's confusing.

 

[topspn]

That's what I'd assumed, but I measured both frames the same way with the same setup and the same app. That's why it's confusing.

And maybe the app is measuring the SW wrong and consistent between the two. Maybe a stringer in your area has a SW machine. Or maybe you have a sense by feel from playing on the SW to see if what you’re measuring seems to add up. Or just try the manual method http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/howto_swingweight.php

 

[supineAnimation]

And maybe the app is measuring the SW wrong and consistent between the two. Maybe a stringer in your area has a SW machine. Or maybe you have a sense by feel from playing on the SW to see if what you’re measuring seems to add up

Yeah, I don't really care what the number is. It's all about how it performs. It's just that the math doesn't add up. Even if the app or my setup is wrong, it should be wrong roughly the same way for both. So how can 25g of added weight increase the SW of one by 6 and substantially less added weight raise the other's SW by 45?

But regardless, if it feels good and I play well with it once I get a chance to hit with it, I'll be glad to order another just like it.

 

[topspn]

Yeah, I don't really care what the number is. It's all about how it performs. It's just that the math doesn't add up. Even if the app or my setup is wrong, it should be wrong roughly the same way for both. So how can 25g of added weight increase the SW of one by 6 and substantially less added weight raise the other's SW by 45?

But regardless, if it feels good and I play well with it once I get a chance to hit with it, I'll be glad to order another just like it.

Oh, i see, i got you now. So that would translate into a difference of 39 points SW. That is substantial and should easily feel it in play if true

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

Anyone using 2 different polys for their stringjob in the TC95?

 

[PigPen]

I've been using a ng/poly hybrid in a TC95 63 RA. YPTP feels great because of the crispiness. RS Lyon is too soft and lower powered than YPTP. Strongly prefer YPTP in this frame.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

I've been using a ng/poly hybrid in a TC95 63 RA. YPTP feels great because of the crispiness. RS Lyon is too soft and lower powered than YPTP. Strongly prefer YPTP in this frame.

well yptp is my favorite for mains on my pacifics... good to hear.

 

[teekaywhy]

I have the B - L3 - and I know now that I should've ordered L4 (asked Paul for L4 pallets though and I am waiting for his response). All other specs are spot one.

Let me know how you make out.
I'm taking of my B shape L4 pallets and going with C shape.

 

[supineAnimation]

I have the B - L3 - and I know now that I should've ordered L4 (asked Paul for L4 pallets though and I am waiting for his response). All other specs are spot one.

So is this because you just ordered the wrong one by mistake or do you usually use L3 and this one felt too small to you? I ask because I had the opposite experience. My YTPPs are L3 but the L3 on the TC97 feels thicker. I like the feel of the grip a lot and it's very cushiony, which I prefer; it's just a bit thicker than I'm used to, so I'm asking Paul if I can swap out the L3 for an L2 if I send the frame back to him.

 

[The_Racketeer]

So is this because you just ordered the wrong one by mistake or do you usually use L3 and this one felt too small to you? I ask because I had the opposite experience. My YTPPs are L3 but the L3 on the TC97 feels thicker. I like the feel of the grip a lot and it's very cushiony, which I prefer; it's just a bit thicker than I'm used to, so I'm asking Paul if I can swap out the L3 for an L2 if I send the frame back to him.

Synthetic grip or leather? I have L5 C-grip with synthetic wrap and it does indeed feel slightly bigger than my Prince racquets (same grip shape and L5 also). My first outing I noticed it both I quickly became used to it and it now feels natural. Maybe it compressed.

 

[teekaywhy]

Has anyone tried Lux 4G in the TC97?

 

[supineAnimation]

Synthetic grip or leather? I have L5 C-grip with synthetic wrap and it does indeed feel slightly bigger than my Prince racquets (same grip shape and L5 also). My first outing I noticed it both I quickly became used to it and it now feels natural. Maybe it compressed.

Synthetic. I love how plush it feels, but I think the L2 with Paul's synthetic will be perfect.

 

[jhusein]

So is this because you just ordered the wrong one by mistake or do you usually use L3 and this one felt too small to you? I ask because I had the opposite experience. My YTPPs are L3 but the L3 on the TC97 feels thicker. I like the feel of the grip a lot and it's very cushiony, which I prefer; it's just a bit thicker than I'm used to, so I'm asking Paul if I can swap out the L3 for an L2 if I send the frame back to him.

I had leather on all mine and Angell Leather seems to be a bit thinner than all other leather grips I used (this is based on feel and not actual measurements), i.e. Volkl and Babolat leather seems a bit thicker and that may partly explain why the L3 - B leather Angell grips felt a bit smaller than I am used to.
I always used L4 on my Volkls and Head Prestige MID and IG rad pro with no problems (I swap synthetic to leather though).
I don't play with Bab but when I try them (i.e., Pure control tour), I felt most comfortable with their L3. Based on that and since I "thought" Angell B shape is the closest to Bab, I went ahead and ordered L3-B.