The Official Lead Tape Placement+Racket Customization Thread

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by xFullCourtTenniSx, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. saleem

    saleem Rookie

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    you will not increase swingweight by adding weight to the grip, adding to tip of the hoop will increase the most swingweight.
    here is excellent tool to figure it out http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customizationReverse.php
     
  2. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    Swing weight as standardly measured at approx. 10 cm from the butt stays about the same with anything you add to the handle.
    However, you can still notice increase in power and changes in swing behaviour when you increase mass in the handle, because the nature of racquet swing and hit mechanics is more complex than just about swing weight measured at 10 cm from the butt.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
  3. TennisHound

    TennisHound Hall of Fame

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  4. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    no
     
  5. Bender

    Bender Legend

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    I've added an extra 3 g total at 12, 3, and 9, for a total of 6 g lead tape in the hoop in my PS95S.

    There is an additional 8 g of lead tape stuck in the butt cap, and the synthetic grip that came with the racquet was replaced with a Wilson leather grip.

    Currently using a full bed of Cyber Flash 17G at 49 lbs.

    Total mass now off the top of my head is in the 350-355 g range.

    Lovely setup so far; getting a lot of effortless power I could only get from the PS90.

    Still breaks strings like no tomorrow, so I'll probably be sticking to the PS90 in the long run.
     
  6. anhboa2

    anhboa2 New User

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    Someone enlighten me pls, i thought Federer or Wawrinka added more weight to the lower part of the racket. Their racket has higher static weight and less SW than the like of Djokovic (as reported by someone who owns them here)
     
  7. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    For what I know, if you go for too polarized a setup you will eventually lower MgR/I too much resulting in a setup which lags through the swing, because of pendulum physics related to it.

    To compensate for this you need to put some mass at the middle of the racquet, in the area from the top of the handle through throat up to the 12 o'clock area. Putting mass to this area will increase MgR/I (relatively) speeding up the racquet's head through swing.
    The inevitable result of compensating MgR/I (ideally getting it to around value of 21) by putting some mass somewhere at described area is that you increase static weight without getting significant SW gain.

    So while higher static weight is not as desireable by itself, a certain balance between SW and static weight is kind of wanted exactly because of connection to MgR/I. And in the end, mind that it's SW and lowish MgR/I that slow down a swing, it's no the static weight that does it by itself.

    Pro players specs are their preferrence related to their playing style. And Novak's setup is specific for its high TW. But AFAIK Novak also uses some lead at 7'' as customized by P1, it's kind of a need when custom polarizing racquets, as probably done by all pros.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
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  8. Liam Grennon

    Liam Grennon Rookie

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    Hi, I have a blade 98 countervail and prefer a little heavier and head light setup which the blade is definitely not (I got it brand new for free) and so I have put around 10 grams of lead tape in the handle and want to put some in the butt cap but the handle is filled both sides with silicone, can I place the tape on top of the silicone? Or the backside of the cap?
     
  9. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    I'm considering adding some weight to the handle of potentially two racquets. Both have a static weight of about 310g and a SW of 310/315. I'm happy with the SW but want them more headlight balanced and I'm enjoying a static weight these days of about 330g.

    Therefore, I'm thinking about running strips of lead tape equally along each flat edge of the handle, from the butt to the top of the pallet, to achieve this weight.

    My question initially goes to @Irvin and @zalive, as I know they have a good knowledge on such things. Any downsides to adding this sort of weight just to the handle? Cheers guys.
     
  10. purdyd

    purdyd New User

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    I put 5 grams of tungsten putty between the cap and foam size on my cv blade. It's a good place to add weight if you are trying to make it head light.
     
  11. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    My personal experience, the one I still can't explain, is that I don't like heavy grips since I noticed they can slow down a racquet through swing. Two strips of lead along flat edge might possibly do something similar. But since weight isn't too much it might be ok as well...so you should try it.

    I personally wrap the lead around the handle (if there's no trap door and I don't want to bother with taking the butt cap off), either at the butt cap or at the top of the handle. Wrapping it around the butt cap is most neutral for specs, aside that it significantly increases recoil weight (which is actually good for volleying since it makes racquet more stable). But I usually put less than 20 grams at the butt. I still did up to three layers of lead in a two to three parallel wraps next to each other, going from the butt cap to the handle/pallet - I usuall put no more than two layers to the last wrap ending at pallets - and I was ok with the result, nothing that would bother me in play.
     
  12. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with @zalive any weight you add to the racket anywhere will slow down the frame. Adding lead strips under the grip will build up the grip but it is the easiest location to add it. If I had two rackets I would not add mass to either unless I was matching the, or knew the exact specs and was trying to determine an ideal setup for myself. If I were tail weighting a racket I would put the weight inside the grip
     
  13. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for this. Basically I am trying to get my HM300 to the same weight and balance as my Dunlop F100. Both have the same SW, but the F100 is 330g with a lower balance point. Therefore, my thought is that if I run lead tape along the length of the handle on the HM300, it should work. And a slight increase to the grip size is fine.
     
  14. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    @robbo1970 seems like that would work but how much weight do you add where? Everyone when I was a kid in school used to say I'll never need this. Today they say, I don't need to know math I can use a calculator. LOL Time to break out the calculator isn't it? Maybe Siri knows how to use it.

    I'm assuming your HM300 is lighter with a higher balance point, because you're going to add mass to the get the balance to match. You're overlooking the fact that your Inertia at center of mass (aka recoil weight) is different in the two rackets. You know the weight of the two rackets and the difference is the amount of weight you have to play with. Now you need to figure out where to stick that weight. You should be able to figure out the difference in inertia of the two frames and that difference is what you want to build up. Hopefully the lighter racket has the lower Inertia, because you can't lower inertia by adding mass.

    So I'm going to assume your lighter racket is 10 g lighter, the inertia is 2 points lower, and the light racket is more head heavy (that's why you add mass to handle.)

    I = mdd
    I/m = dd
    Sqrt(I/m) = d
    Sqrt(2/0.01) = d
    14.14 = d

    So you put 10 g 14.14 cm below the balance point.

    EDIT: Hopefully your balance and SW match or it's back to the drawing board.
     
  15. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I also like to see what is going to happen to the Balance and SW before I just start adding on weight. You need to know where to add how much to get them to match before you ever start. No sense in trying to match something that does not match.
     
  16. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    Yes, both have the same SW at present, but the 300 is even balanced and the 100 is very HL. Therefore, I think I can add all the weight to the handle, increasing the static weight, keeping the same SW and moving the balance point lower.
     
  17. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    LOL - Good luck with that. I've never been that lucky.
     
  18. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    I think I perhaps need to concentrate the weight as close to the butt end as possible to start with, then perhaps move up the handle to gradually spread the weight a bit.
     
  19. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    I think the starting specs on the 300 are in my favour, but it's not the end of the world if it doesn't become an exact match. The main objective is to get more weight to the handle and make the balance more HL and get the overall weight up without increasing the SW too much.
     
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  20. morten

    morten Hall of Fame

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    For me putting weight at the buttcap area changes the frame more (mostly negative for me) Better putting weight at the end of the grip,7 inches from buttcap. Very good position.
     
  21. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    There's no really a neutral change. Whatever and wherever you put or whatever you take off racquet, racquet will be changed in a certain way.
     
  22. tennisreflectslife

    tennisreflectslife New User

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    Hey guys, I recently got the newer version of rf97 to match my older version, as TW people said its the same racket with new cosmetic. The rackets dont play similar for me, the newer one feels difficult to swing, especially when trying to hitting whippy shots or wristy shots. Might just be a quality control issue. Anyway, so I am thinking of adding some lead to make the racket feel more whippy. What would be best the place add and how much should I add ? I dont wanna add more than 10-12 gms as its already a heavy racket.

    PS: I have removed the leather grrips and added babolat thin base grips instead on both.
     
  23. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    You need to have both your racquets measured for static weight, balance point and swing weight (SW). You need this to do a comparison. After you find out their specs, possibly something can be done to make your new racquet play like the old one.
     
  24. tennisreflectslife

    tennisreflectslife New User

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    U r right that wud be best way to go about it. I was looking for a more makeshift solution make it more whippy for now, as I dont have resources around for those measurements. Right now i think adding weight to hoop will only make more sluggish, so will start with putting some lead tape on the handle. Some people say polarization helps with whippyness, is it true in ur experience ?
     
  25. GBplayer

    GBplayer Professional

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    But you have just removed weight from the handle to make it more head heavy?
     
  26. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    There is an easy way to make it more whippy: wrap some lead tape around the top of the handle (at 7'' or 17-18 cm from the butt capp). Do it with at least 2 grams, then if you need more whippy, wrap another 2 grams.

    However, if whippiness sensation comes from the older one being lighter than the newer one, it might not be the exact whippy sensation you're look for. Putting lead at the top of the handle effectively speeds up the swing, but it certainly won't make a racquet lighter. However I do encourage you to try this out and see if it works for you.
     
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  27. morten

    morten Hall of Fame

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    I measured swingweight of 7 new black RFs an they ranged from 303 to 334 unstrung.. add about 30 points more with strings and you know where i am going... to Yonex. 334 pluss 30 is 364.. !! Just saying.. Thanks folks
     
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  28. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Sounds like your newer frame has a higher SW and or balance to me. A higher balance (all else being equal) will result in a higher SW. There is no point on the racket where you can add mass to make the racket easier to swing (make it more whippet.) imagine you much first whip the racket as it is not and whatever mass you add.

    The butt cap will add about 1/4" to the overall length of a racket. Get another butt cap and cut out the button of the butt cap so it will slide up on the handle. Slide it up so the bottom of the butt cap is even with the handle. That should lower the SW 8-10 points.
     
  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You've also lowered the Recoil Weight of the racket so it ends up being a wash believe it or not. If you add mass to the SW axis you will not increase SW. You will increase inertia and lower the balance so again it's a wash.
     
  30. morten

    morten Hall of Fame

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    Only option is to cut some of the bumper guard. Done it many times. Sometimes it worked. Not with the RF...
     
  31. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    Lol morten...meaning some actually closely hit actual Roger's specs...without any lead :)
     
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  32. tennisreflectslife

    tennisreflectslife New User

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    Thanks for the comments guys. I am not sure if I want to cut the bumpers or the butcap, the racket is too good looking to do that haha. Luckily its not my goto stick right now (playing with angell tc97) but will try keep experimenting whenver i get chance. Will definitely try what u said @zalive , it sounds fascinating. I have added around 4.5 gms of lead at 12 o clock to my angell tc97 which was already 330 gms, and it still swings faster than rf97. So cannot believe the strung swingweight of the rf97 i have is 335.
     
  33. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    Well, morten wrote what's possible with stock RF's...SW above 365 plus MgR/I well under 21 and it's a really heavy to swing a stick...at least you can correct MgR/I to a normal value, and that's what 7'' lead is for...
     
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  34. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Iirc i had to put 35g at 7" to get things right on the RF 97a. After the lead i added
     
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  35. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    That's radical, mate...but I know you like to add a lot to the tip, so I can understand why so much...
    Never added more than 16-18 grams at 7'' on any of mine, but then again you know me and how I like to go with lead tape around the hoop more than to concentrate it at the tip...
     
  36. tennisreflectslife

    tennisreflectslife New User

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    That is crazy !!! lol
    I will start with 10 gms then go upto 15. Will update the findings here!
     
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  37. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    [​IMG]
    17 g in the hoop
     
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  38. tennisreflectslife

    tennisreflectslife New User

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    Just out of curiosity, did u feel rf97 needed any more power or stability and that being the reason u added lead to the hoop ? or was it achieve other characteristics live polarized feel etc ? I am especially curious about the reason for lead at 3 and 9 ? Also do u feel that adding counterweight at 7 inch above the handle makes the racket feel more whippy compared to adding at the very bottom ? looking at this racket I feel ur flat shots must be absolutely crushing !!
     
  39. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    I had to lead it up because it was too head light. Long story but my handle addss about 50g and i normally buy lighter head heavy stiff racquets. The RF 97a was a playtst thanks to tw! I also have a higher sw around 400 so the lead was to get it close to the sw and balance i normally use. Lol i served like crap woth that racquet cause it was so headlight and lacking sw.

    3-9 just seemed like it couldnt hurt. It was around 435g iirc and was a beast. Loved it on ground strokes but i hated it on everything else. Too flexy

    Anyhow here is a point where i used the weight to good advantage

     
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  40. tennisreflectslife

    tennisreflectslife New User

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    haha fun video. With that kind of racket i can see that all u have to do is swing it freely and once the ball lands deep it probably aint coming back. problem is i cannot use such a racket against good defensive players at around 5.0. in those situations i have add lot more spin and myself play defensive sometimes, and such racket is difficult to whip or gets in late to contact point. i face this problem even in my unleaded rf97, so respect to u for using it while leaded so much! all said tho, i still like older (more mageable rf97). its the most solid racket i have played with. has both power and control. however, i m enjoy a polarized angell tc97 right now.
     
  41. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Yeah i can see that!! I think its worth a try to put 20-30g at 7"'up on the handle and then see if it gets whippy enough for you

    I use poster putty for this since its removeable. Cant hurt to try
     
  42. prjacobs

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    Deleted...
     
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  43. prjacobs

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    Sorry.... Deleted again
     
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  44. prjacobs

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    iPad acting up..... Deleted
     
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  45. prjacobs

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    Sorry, my iPad is rebelling.
     
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  46. prjacobs

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    Not a good internet day.... Deleted
     
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  47. prjacobs

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    Bad internet day here....
     
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  48. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Ok already I believe you. lOL
     
  49. prjacobs

    prjacobs Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, my iPad connection is not happy...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  50. prjacobs

    prjacobs Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, my iPad connection is not happy...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  51. prjacobs

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    Sorry, my iPad connection is not happy...


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  52. prjacobs

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    Sorry, my iPad connection is not happy...


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  53. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    It's not you iPad it's the TW server, been happening for a while now. We must be patient for a while until they find the bug.
     
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  54. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    @Irvin: I think you should paste 5he description of your excellent experiment here. Well deserves the place.

    Anyway I'm still perplexed why some players report slowing down. But at the same time, I experienced this on one of my recent customizations. It was on i.Radical customized to 354 grams without dampener. When I did put a 6 grams Prince dampener, racquet felt quite inert and heavy. Not necessary that it slowed down but you could feel its heaviness and inertia through swing. That happened when I placed the dampener next to the hoop at 6 o'clock. Then I moved it to usual spot next to the first cross string...and then, racquet became easier to swing. Which is funny because by doing this I actually decreased MgR/I a bit and increased SW a bit at the same time. Now, grip weight on that one is not little, and basic grip is at 16 grams, I usually use lighter ones. I notice the heavier basic grip I use, the more inertia I can get when I get into my customization range. But moving a dampener few centimeters up made somehow a difference.

    I cannot explain this. As I say, I observe, and in most cases increased MgR/I brings a faster swing as well. And Irvin confirmed this also with his experiment. But there are certain situations when this possibly is not as simple, because of something that we possibly don't know about yet.
     
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  55. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    No problem here it is
    I'm not done with experimenting on this quite yet @zalive. You say you still don't understand how some can say the racket is slowing down. Well believe it or not I still can. I think it all depends on your point of reference. It's all about the distance from the axis to the center of mass and where you add the weight. The period is dependent on two things the distance from the axis to the center of mass and the inertia (aka Recoil Weight.)

    You're saying the racket is whipper because you probably have a loose grip and whip the head through the ball because the distance from the COM to the axis is much shorter than is you had a tight grip.
     
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