Discussion in 'Racquets' started by xFullCourtTenniSx, Jan 29, 2010.
When you have anything ideal Irvin, you don't touch it. Of course.
I think it has something to do with preserving of present rotational movement while accelerating, and energy spent on it. Like higher MgR/I racquets can carry the speed better, so you need less energy to maintain the already present RHS while accelerating it further. Like racquet wants to conform to its natural swing period, so if it is shorter, the better for reaching higher RHS.
But. While you come from physics point of view and try to project it to the playing experience, I come from my experience point of view, and trying to find an explanation for it through physics.
And experience tells me I get a higher RHS and have an easier time to swing when swinging the racquet with MgR/I around 21 than when swinging a racquet with MgR/I significantly lower than MgR/I. Am I confident in these personal observations? Absolutely.
Whether I can explain it or not, it's really less important. The important for me is if I can apply it when customizing, and what effect it has on my tennis. And if I wasn't very satisfied with this, well, I wouldn't be writing this post right now
@zalive MgR/I seems to work for me too, but adding mass at 7" won't always get you to the right value.
Thanks for lecturing me on the subject of MGR/I. I had no idea what it really was and I didn't care that much. So thank you.
I never really considered finding out my MGR/I because I use full Western grip and I've heard(I could(probably will) be wrong) that MGR/I helps less and less the more down your hand goes. Like MGR/I has more of an effect if you have an Eastern grip compared to a Full-western. Am I wrong? If so I really want to get into this topic, I'm a lunatic when it comes to splitting hairs, especially on gear.
Crie this is what I posted few posts ago
"I think it depends on your body type (height, arm length etc... taller guy might benefit from it more) and how you hold the racket, modern grip players will not receive as much benefit out of mass at 7" as conventional stroke players.
It is good to have this as an other tool in your belt, try it and see if it works for your body type and your strokes if it does not work you can simply remove it, same as lower or higher tension on poly strings, just try and see if it works for your game if not go back to your "normal" tension."
I don't have a lot of data points on western grips.
But one of my regular hitting partners is a 5.0 former D1 player with a full western forehand. I customized and tuned his racquets for him a couple of years ago - we ended up with final specs of 361 SW and MgR/I of 21.08 (Weight of 13.4 oz.) on his O3 Reds, and his heavy-spin forehand improved significantly and turned into a weapon after moving up in weight from his previous specs, which were at about 345 swingweight. The 21.08 number definitely worked better than 21.0 for him, as he complained that he couldn't accelerate the racquethead around fast enough (when I initially tried 21.0), but he loved it at 21.08. The high MgR/I may work better for his western forehand because the surplus angular acceleration can be used for extra low-to-high action for more topspin without compromising timing at impact as much as it would with a less extreme grip style.
Or he might have spent a bit more time in the gym building up his legs and core strength. Or his body developed a bit more in the time he took to adjust to the new heavier racquet spec. Either way, his stroke improved so it is a win.
If I received a dollar for everytime I saw a player signficantly improve his game simply by using a heavier racquet (heavier in the "right" places), I would be several dollars wealthier than I am now.
Alright, I will definetly be looking more into MGR/I. Could you recommend me a tread on it?
I believe that is rubbish. I can't tell you how many threads I've see where someone adds mass to the head and wants to know how much mass to put in the handle to counterbalance it. Or the other way around. If you take the constant (g) out of the equation and break it down what you have the the total mass (M) times the ratio of the radius (R) / inertia (I.) Mass does not have anything to do with how fast a pendulum swings but how it is distributed has everything to do with the balance (R) and Inertia (I.) And the radius and inertia directly control the pendulum's period.
There are a lot of people that don't believe it works but when I change the mass on one end using MgR/I gives me a real good idea of how to adjust the weight on the other end.
This is a good place to start:
Thank you for replying for so many of my questions.
Thank you for the guidance and replies.
Placed 3g tungsten tape at 3 and 9 o'clock (6g total) and 3g in the butt handle (Babolat PA LITE racquet). I have a Luxilon dampener and tecnifibre overgrip.... not sure of the weight of those two. I'm no expert here, but these changes really improved the performance of the racquet. It's got more of everything, power, stability, spin, control, and the racquet can hold it's own now against big hitters and volleys. I'm not sure exactly how much SW was increased from the original 308, but the added weight in those places really balanced out the racquet. I used one pack of the Babolat Tungsten tape 3X3. I typically play with a Yonex Ezone Dr-100, and love it. However, this racquet feels pretty darn good and is much easier to swing. As much as I love Yonex, I've always experienced a bit of sluggishness with the Dr 98 and 100. I'm not sure why this is given the specs.
SW has increased by roughly 11 pts (with 6 grams at 3+9 o'clock).
Thanks much. I'd like to squeeze another 10 pts out of it. What would you suggest? Would adding at 12 o'clock work? Then I'd probably have to add more weight to counter balance it.
The SW increase will be the mass in kg times the square of the distance. If you looking to at it at 12 that point inside the frame is about 58 cm above the 10 cm axis distance squared is 3364 so SW = 3364m or 10 /3364 = m or .00297 = m or about 3 g.
EDIT: Assuming your 3&9 positions are 44 cm above the 10 cm axis it would take another 2.5 g on each side.
this is a good tool to use http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customizationReverse.php
Thanks for the input. I like that worksheet page.
Can anyone explain to me why adding weight at the hoop even at 12 increases the HL balance point?
It doesn't of course.
The reason I say that is because after tinkering with the Customization Worksheet, lets say adding 50 grams at 26.5inches, with a starting balance of 32.7, the end result of my balance is 31.88, which essentially means its more head light isnt it? Or am I missing something here?
This is the question for TWU guys, from your description it seems something's not right with calculation on that sheet. I use personal sheet.
My guess is you added 50 g at 26.5 cm instead of inches
Maybe you measure balance from hoop. NoT buttcap... it becomes the opposite that way
It's never measured this way.
Irvin might be right, units confusion could be the reason.
Then 12 would be 0.5 and not 26.5
not possible.... I am guessing what Irvin guessed, it is a mix up with inches and cm
That would only happen when donkeys fly Sorry but i’m sure you made a simple mistake somewhere
Sean or Josh,
do you guys have any suggestions for a new racquet?
I'm 5.0-5.5 and play all court tennis with a focus on offensive baselining. I'm coming from a Yonex Ezone DR98 and I really like the smooth of the racquet. If there is one thing I would change about my DR is the string bed. Its slightly closed for my liking. Other than that, I think I am good. I do my own lead taping so the specs shouldn't matter as long as they are under 11.7oz
Try dropping the crosses 10-15lbs and upping the mains the same amount
Edit: like 60/40 instead of 50/50lbs. It wont change the stringbed config but it should be spinnier if you are using a smooth cross and lack of spin is usually why people like more open patterns
It's not impossible at all.
What he's saying makes perfect sense ....
... If he holds the racquet by the tip and hits balls with the handle
I would say that because you do your own lead taping that it doesn't matter too much what you use as long as you find the right string pattern, stiffness, and grip size. If you want a looser feeling string bed You can try a racket with a 16/18 pattern, or loosen the tension by a few pounds to make it feel more comfortable and give you more spin. Again, once you find your grip size, stiffness, and string pattern, the rest is up to you to customize how you like. I personally like the Wilson Pro Staff 97 (11.7ish string) or the new Pure Strike line. Hope this helps!
No matter how the racket is held (unless you have an illegal racket) the balance point doesn't change.
EDIT: If you use the customization worksheet and add 50 g above the balance point (26.5") the worksheet will show the balance goes up. And if you add it below the balance point (26.5 cm) the worksheet will show the balance goes down. After that you can hold the racket any way you want.
I just realized I posted this in the wrong thread...
my 12am brain is not as good I thought....
EDIT: Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely try the tension 60/40~ and try to figure out what RA I like.
I have 2 Aero Pro Drive GT rackets. I'm interested in a bit heavier racket like the Pure Aero Tour.
Should I buy that one or could I just add some weight to my rackets to make it feel like a Pure Aero Tour?
Also could somebody give some rough instructions please how much weight to add and where to make an Aero Pro Drive GT play like an Pure Aero Tour?
Thanks in advance.
you should find the specs for Pure Aero Tour and use this http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customization.php
You will not be able to exactly replicate a PAT by weighing up an APD. The PAT has a more open string pattern.
What you can do though is make the APD as good as, or probably even better than the PAT, in terms of control potential and depth potential simply by adding weight inside the handle (5g to 20g) and some weight at either 12 (2g to 5g), or at 10 and 2 (4g to 8g).
You will have to experiment a bit to get to the right solution. But with a little patience you will end up with a racquet that provides all the benefits of a PAT but with better control and the ability to generate heavier balls on serve and groundies.
As a starting point, try 10g in the handle, and 2g at 12. Ideally, you are looking at ending up with a racquet that is b/w 335g to 350g strung with Balance b/w 6 to 10 pts Head Light depending on your preference. IMO, with these configurations you must use either full beds of Poly or a Poly/SG hybrid to get the best performance out of racquet.
I'm on my mobile now but thanks for your reaction guys. This wil help me out a lot . Now if you don't mind me asking Karma Tennis..but can you please make a suggestion what kit(s) of lead tape I should buy to follow up your instructions.
Also I'm planning to either put a full bed of RPM team, RPM blast rough or black code in it. Still need to research a bit. I'm not a stringer myself so I'm probably looking for the string with the least tension loss and best durability.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk
@mb82, IMO it's best to make changes that are easily reversible. We always use Bostik Blu-Tack (poster putty) to add weight to racquets.
The AeroPro Drive has a trapdoor in the but-cap. It's very easy to insert Blu-Tack into the cavity of the racquet handle. You can add weight inside the handle without changing the grip size or profile. The Blu-Tack also absorbs ball impact and post impact vibration as an added benefit. If you are not happy with the changes, it's very easy to remove the Blu-Tack.
Blu-Tack is easy to place on the hoop of the racquet between and around the grommets. Again, simple to add varying amounts of weight in various positions. Completely reversible. And the Blu-Tack does not fly off the frame during play.
Once you're satisfied with your customisations, you can replace the Blu-Tack on the hoop with either lead tape or tungsten tape. Both are availabel online or at your local tennis retailer. I have left Blu-Tack inside the handle for several months playing is climatic conditions ranging from very cold to very hot. Even after all of that, the Blu-Tack is still workable and easy to remove. If you want a more permanent solution, you could replace the Blu-Tack with silicone gel but I've never seen the need to do that.
RPM and Black Code are both excellent strings for the APD. However, both of these strings seem to work for a very limited time at their best. By all means, try them out but for the APD, I would recommend something like Volkl Cyclone as better value for money. If you did string your own racquets, I would highly recommend Pro's Pro Black Out.
Most, if not all, Poly strings will exhibit a significant degree of tension loss straight off the stringing machine. And durability is really a questionable factor when it comes to Poly string. I strongly recommend that Poly string be replaced at least every 8 hours of play and preferably every 5 to 6 hours of play regardless of brand and type. But as usual, it does depend on the player.
I don't think he has the money to replace polys every time he hits lol.
@Karma Tennis, thank you very much for your detailed post! Lets say I play 8 hour a week and I want to change strings once a month. What string would you recommend then?
Financially it would probably be better to string 1 racket with a durable string for back up and 1 racket with a poly for training and matches.
If anybody has some more string suggestions, that would be great.
So far I have been helped very good. Thanks again!
@mb82, I don't have any detailed personal experience using full beds of Poly for longer than 8 hours. I have read a lot of reviews and other people's experiences and suggest you do the same. As I restring my own racquets I never exceed 8 hours and rarely exceed 6 hours before restringing. For me, Poly string works best in the first 6 hours.
If you are wanting longer durability with consistent performance then I suggest you look at thicker gauge Synthetic Gut.
great information.. thank you, OP
First you need to determine the difference between the two rackets and it is best to measure the ones you have and the one you like. Then use the customazition toll. If you can't measure them you could use the Compare Tool to get an idea of how different they are.
Thanks again for the help guys! I'm from the netherlands btw and blu tack seems really hard to get here. We have pritt buddies though.. maybe I should try that instead?
pritt buddies is same as blu tack, I am from Canada I usually go to dollar store and pick up a pack of poster tack for $2 it works very good, make sure to wrap it up in saran wrap otherwise in hot weather it melts and goes all over inside the handle and hoop.
How would you guys recommend adding weight to the PO7 to kind of tame it, so my groundstrokes and serves aren't going out by like a foot. I've never customized a racquet before. I'd like the static weight to be no more than 11.7 ounces, and to keep it headlight including the string.
Usually lead is added for more power or so that you can hit more spin without losing power. Taming a powerful racquet can be done by using lighter strings, higher tension, or hitting with more topspin.
I was about to edit my post, but you responded so fast that I didn't have time . I was going to change it just to say this: where can I add weight to get it up to 11.6-11.7 ounces and make it a bit more stable? While keeping it headlight, like I mentioned before. I think changing my string from the syn. gut it came with to a poly like I normally use will fix having too much power.
Stability comes best from 3/9. You'd probably want to counterbalance in the handle. Increasing weight at 3/9 will increase power though.
Poly is heavier than synthetic gut so you will get some added power from the additional weight but poly is stiffer as well which should drop power. You might consider going a bit thinner on the poly than you have with the synthetic gut. I went from 16l to 15 on poly and it added about 10 swingweight points to my racquet. In general, if you have a frame with "too much" power, I find it better to tame it with more topspin as the resulting shot will often be more effective against opponents.
Usually 3 and 9 but it really depends on the frame.. 2 and 10 have sometimes worked better on certain frames.
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