The One Handed Backhand vs The Two Hander: IT DOESN'T MATTER

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Fwiw i have a steep climb myself.

On really high balls spinning it back is pretty much the best you can do

Was trying to hit 100 balls in a row so just getting the balls back and in play. Pretty much every bh after the 1st was a highball

Some were over my head like the one at 2:38


Do you normally play this close to the baseline? That's why you're getting caught hitting them so high. You opponent doesn't need to hit it hard or anything deep, just a spin shot that lands at the service line and bounces a bit up. The fact that you're playing so tight to that baseline will automatically have you hitting the ball at its highest point.

It's one thing to play that close if you wanna hit everything on the rise, which you're obviously not, because no club players balls will be hit deep consistently. This might work at higher levels but its too low percentage. Stand a meter back from the baseline maybe a meter and a half, where you should be anyways, and you'll see how much easier it is to play.
 

Tennitus

New User
Do you normally play this close to the baseline? That's why you're getting caught hitting them so high. You opponent doesn't need to hit it hard or anything deep, just a spin shot that lands at the service line and bounces a bit up. The fact that you're playing so tight to that baseline will automatically have you hitting the ball at its highest point.

It's one thing to play that close if you wanna hit everything on the rise, which you're obviously not, because no club players balls will be hit deep consistently. This might work at higher levels but its too low percentage. Stand a meter back from the baseline maybe a meter and a half, where you should be anyways, and you'll see how much easier it is to play.

Hadn't even considered this. I realise that I stand close to the baseline. Why? Because at my level, people tend to hit a lot of shots that ... die, and I end up responding to what basically turns out to be a drop shot. I think this ends up pulling me closer in.

But of course, as soon as they hit it deeper, I'm hitting high balls. Something else to think about.

Thanks
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
Do you normally play this close to the baseline? That's why you're getting caught hitting them so high. You opponent doesn't need to hit it hard or anything deep, just a spin shot that lands at the service line and bounces a bit up. The fact that you're playing so tight to that baseline will automatically have you hitting the ball at its highest point.

It's one thing to play that close if you wanna hit everything on the rise, which you're obviously not, because no club players balls will be hit deep consistently. This might work at higher levels but its too low percentage. Stand a meter back from the baseline maybe a meter and a half, where you should be anyways, and you'll see how much easier it is to play.
Hey Balla. Yes i always play that tight. Its just how i am wired. I am a net rusher who is too slow to net rush and clueless back behind the baseline

That particular vid was just the 100 ball challenge and i had to search all my vids to find that many high balls. I rarely hit them except for ROS and often i am a meter in the court for those.

In normal play i dont seem to see many high balls or playing that close i can hit them on the rise which i rock at

I will take your advice and try playing back but you can move. The moment i back up i will be getting dropped all friggin day and be that much further from the net. That Siren of all Siren songs...

Here is a great example. Many bhs and not one high ball from Maximagq.

 

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
@Shroud

I still think you'd be better off further back. That video above with maximagq has you getting caught on a lot of balls because you're too tight in and don't have time to react. You don't have a compact enough take back to play that close and you'll hit an amazing ball off the bounce but then be late on the next one and off balance if it comes back quick. Or just off balance and late in general and lots of mishits. Just my opinion, doesn't mean you have to do it haha.

If you really want my opinion, and this is me being honest and fair you're not showing much consistency in that video and I'd be frustrated as hell trying to rally crosscourt backhands with you :D You'd hit one normal one, one really hard off the bounce, then a weak duff, then another hard one sharp angle for a winner. You're a bit all over the shop. I'm not trying to be a pr*ck here, just looking at the video and giving you my honest assessment if I was on the other side of the net. Then again Max wasn't consistent either.
 

crazyups

Professional
Even though the 2 hander balances out the body, over time it is more stressful to the back and hips because it requires more hip turn.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
My question is for doubles: Does 1hbh or 2hbh matter much in doubles? Since I cover only 1/2 the court and move to my forehand on incoming serves and shots, I rarely hit backhands.
The ratio is probably something like 90/10 or 80/20 FH/BH.
I volley, lob and slice approach with 1hbh. Only on groundstrokes and ROS do I use 2hbh.
But some good, smart servers hit into my body which is more easily blocked back with 1hbh.
Maybe once or twice in a set will I go toe to toe BH to BH.
For sure my court movement is more natural and smoother with 1hbh.
So does 1hbh vs 2hbh matter much in doubles? Jack Sock seems to do fine in doubles even with a bad winning ratio of his BH.

"By the BHP metric, Federer’s backhand is neutral: +0.2 points per 100 backhands. Fed wins most points with his serve and his forehand; a neutral BHP indicates that while his backhand isn’t doing the damage, at least it isn’t working against him. Nadal’s BHP is +1.7 per 100 backhands, a few ticks below those of Murray and Djokovic, whose BHPs are +2.6 and +2.5, respectively. Among the game’s current elite, Kei Nishikorisports the best BHP, at +3.6, while Andre Agassi‘s was a whopping +5.0. At the other extreme, Marin Cilic‘s is -2.9, Milos Raonic‘s is -3.7, and Jack Sock‘s is -6.6. Fortunately, you don’t have to hit very many backhands to shine in doubles."
 

TennisCJC

Legend
My question is for doubles: Does 1hbh or 2hbh matter much in doubles? Since I cover only 1/2 the court and move to my forehand on incoming serves and shots, I rarely hit backhands.
The ratio is probably something like 90/10 or 80/20 FH/BH.
I volley, lob and slice approach with 1hbh. Only on groundstrokes and ROS do I use 2hbh.
But some good, smart servers hit into my body which is more easily blocked back with 1hbh.
Maybe once or twice in a set will I go toe to toe BH to BH.
For sure my court movement is more natural and smoother with 1hbh.
So does 1hbh vs 2hbh matter much in doubles? Jack Sock seems to do fine in doubles even with a bad winning ratio of his BH.

"By the BHP metric, Federer’s backhand is neutral: +0.2 points per 100 backhands. Fed wins most points with his serve and his forehand; a neutral BHP indicates that while his backhand isn’t doing the damage, at least it isn’t working against him. Nadal’s BHP is +1.7 per 100 backhands, a few ticks below those of Murray and Djokovic, whose BHPs are +2.6 and +2.5, respectively. Among the game’s current elite, Kei Nishikorisports the best BHP, at +3.6, while Andre Agassi‘s was a whopping +5.0. At the other extreme, Marin Cilic‘s is -2.9, Milos Raonic‘s is -3.7, and Jack Sock‘s is -6.6. Fortunately, you don’t have to hit very many backhands to shine in doubles."

I saw Agassi play a legends event on TV a few months ago. First thoughts that came to my mind were 1. he can barely move anymore, and 2. his 2HBH is such a simple easy great stroke. If he had time to setup, his 2HBH was still great. He might have the best 2HBH ever and that includes Djokovic and Murray. I thin Agassi has the perfect model for rec players. I am going to pull up some Agassi video on youtube tonight and see if I can learn something.

There are lots of ATP and WTA doubles players ranked very high that hit 2HBH and 1HBH. So, either is good for doubles. I play almost exclusively doubles and hit 2HBH. I will use 1HBH back slice for lobs, volleys, approach shots, on really high balls and occasionally on ROS. All in all, I hit majority topspin 2HBH even in doubles. I would think the ratio of 2HBH to 1HBH is 70/30 or 60/40 but on days when I have to block back a lot of big serves, it could go 30/70.
 

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Eventually everyone will play a one handed backhand as they get older, because its easier on the body and you can sorta fake it more in your old age and still get it in, such as a slice. With two hands on the racket you gotta be closer to the ball, so better footwork is required which is the first to go as you get older. I'm not talking about being 50 years old, that's still young. I mean once you're past 60 you'll find the former two handers will more and more play one handed backhands.
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
@Shroud

I still think you'd be better off further back. That video above with maximagq has you getting caught on a lot of balls because you're too tight in and don't have time to react. You don't have a compact enough take back to play that close and you'll hit an amazing ball off the bounce but then be late on the next one and off balance if it comes back quick. Or just off balance and late in general and lots of mishits. Just my opinion, doesn't mean you have to do it haha.

If you really want my opinion, and this is me being honest and fair you're not showing much consistency in that video and I'd be frustrated as hell trying to rally crosscourt backhands with you :D You'd hit one normal one, one really hard off the bounce, then a weak duff, then another hard one sharp angle for a winner. You're a bit all over the shop. I'm not trying to be a pr*ck here, just looking at the video and giving you my honest assessment if I was on the other side of the net. Then again Max wasn't consistent either.
Dont have to do it?? But the great balla has spoken!!!!

I will try moving back and see. Conceptually that is like Sureshs stepping back from a buffet. Really hard to implement.

And i totally agree on lack of consistency. And being honest is not being a ***** imho!

I used to just drop the racquet ala Muster as a takeback but changed to a loop. You think the simple drop would be quicker?? I have a vid if you need to see but will spare the forum...
 

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Dont have to do it?? But the great balla has spoken!!!!

I will try moving back and see. Conceptually that is like Sureshs stepping back from a buffet. Really hard to implement.

And i totally agree on lack of consistency. And being honest is not being a ***** imho!

I used to just drop the racquet ala Muster as a takeback but changed to a loop. You think the simple drop would be quicker?? I have a vid if you need to see but will spare the forum...

I think your take back is ok, you'd get caught anyways being that close because you also don't move fast enough so even if you changed your take back you'd still run into problems. Just try staying further back and see what happens and how you hit the ball. Give it an honest try and let me know how it worked out.
 

iChen

Semi-Pro
I wish a one hander was as effective as a two hander, however in the new game where baseline bashing is a norm, a two hander really gets the upper hand

No. This isn’t true. A one handed has higher ceiling of power, ie Stan. A 2 handed has great consistency with or without preparation or time for shot, ie Djokovic.
 

iChen

Semi-Pro
Has @Shroud tried just stayed “leaning” on front foot as he hits and not moving? And yeah he needs to move back from baseline, he just isn’t ready for the shot.
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
I think your take back is ok, you'd get caught anyways being that close because you also don't move fast enough so even if you changed your take back you'd still run into problems. Just try staying further back and see what happens and how you hit the ball. Give it an honest try and let me know how it worked out.
Ok will do. Its going to be a mind fcuk cause i will feel soo exposed back there. But i certainly will give it ago. But last time I tried advice from hot shot tennis coaches was when @Ash_Smith gave out dating advice and that hasnt woked out at all!
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Ok will do. Its going to be a mind fcuk cause i will feel soo exposed back there. But i certainly will give it ago. But last time I tried advice from hot shot tennis coaches was when @Ash_Smith gave out dating advice and that hasnt woked out at all!
Did you do the naked man? 50% of the time it works 100% of the time
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
I think your take back is ok, you'd get caught anyways being that close because you also don't move fast enough so even if you changed your take back you'd still run into problems. Just try staying further back and see what happens and how you hit the ball. Give it an honest try and let me know how it worked out.

Ok will do. Its going to be a mind fcuk cause i will feel soo exposed back there. But i certainly will give it ago. But last time I tried advice from hot shot tennis coaches was when @Ash_Smith gave out dating advice and that hasnt woked out at all!

Whoever controls short balls (inside outs, angles, any ball that's gonna bounce twice prior to reaching the baseline) will own a player who prefers to stay back, but isn't fast on his feet. Drop shots too, easy target.
Why Federer became a baseline hugger? Because it helps him run shorter distance (which goes along with his age) while still allowing him to play aggressive.
If an opponent however always or almost always plays deep without using the full court depth (short balls and angles) well then it's a good gameplan. So it depends.
 
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Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
@Shroud

I still think you'd be better off further back. That video above with maximagq has you getting caught on a lot of balls because you're too tight in and don't have time to react. You don't have a compact enough take back to play that close and you'll hit an amazing ball off the bounce but then be late on the next one and off balance if it comes back quick. Or just off balance and late in general and lots of mishits. Just my opinion, doesn't mean you have to do it haha.

If you really want my opinion, and this is me being honest and fair you're not showing much consistency in that video and I'd be frustrated as hell trying to rally crosscourt backhands with you :D You'd hit one normal one, one really hard off the bounce, then a weak duff, then another hard one sharp angle for a winner. You're a bit all over the shop. I'm not trying to be a pr*ck here, just looking at the video and giving you my honest assessment if I was on the other side of the net. Then again Max wasn't consistent either.

It seems that many (if not most), American coaches push students to hug the baseline in an attempt to play aggressively and put pressure on opponents. This approach has never worked for me. I have found that standing back, giving myself more time to set up and assess the situation, allows me to hit a much more consistently deep penetrating shot which, in turn, is more effective in drawing weak shots (or UE's) from opponents that can then be attacked.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Eventually everyone will play a one handed backhand as they get older, because its easier on the body and you can sorta fake it more in your old age and still get it in, such as a slice. With two hands on the racket you gotta be closer to the ball, so better footwork is required which is the first to go as you get older. I'm not talking about being 50 years old, that's still young. I mean once you're past 60 you'll find the former two handers will more and more play one handed backhands.

Or, you can play both 2hb and 1hb for balls outside of your strike zone, which applies at any age in my view.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I wish a one hander was as effective as a two hander, however in the new game where baseline bashing is a norm, a two hander really gets the upper hand

Disagree. It was never that it was inherently weak. What happened is some popular coach along the way started promoting 2H as the better stroke based on things like Nadal/Fed level play, so more and more students started improving the 2HBH stroke while the 1H fell behind. So it's more the 1HBH didn't get a chance to evolve with the game at the time. And face it, the 2HBH technique is quicker to teach with more consistent results, so easier for coaches as well.

But jump to the last 4ish years and you can see it is being trained, and trained better. Wawrinka was probably a large part of that push, and then some young guns like Thiem showing it can compete and develop for today's modern game. And this year's Federer BH update will counteract it all. With that, I am glad to see in ITF/Pro Circuit and a lot of college players making a push for the 1HBH again, improving the aggressiveness and abilities with it. Many of the coaches I know aren't trying to change young players to the 2HBH and they themselves are learning how to coach the one-hander properly....FINALLY!
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
Disagree. It was never that it was inherently weak. What happened is some popular coach along the way started promoting 2H as the better stroke based on things like Nadal/Fed level play, so more and more students started improving the 2HBH stroke while the 1H fell behind. So it's more the 1HBH didn't get a chance to evolve with the game at the time. And face it, the 2HBH technique is quicker to teach with more consistent results, so easier for coaches as well.

But jump to the last 4ish years and you can see it is being trained, and trained better. Wawrinka was probably a large part of that push, and then some young guns like Thiem showing it can compete and develop for today's modern game. And this year's Federer BH update will counteract it all. With that, I am glad to see in ITF/Pro Circuit and a lot of college players making a push for the 1HBH again, improving the aggressiveness and abilities with it. Many of the coaches I know aren't trying to change young players to the 2HBH and they themselves are learning how to coach the one-hander properly....FINALLY!
Nice summation. Totally agree!!
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
When i win the lottery i plan to tour the states meeting up with TT players. You are on my first stop! But rumor has it that i would be impossible to hit with because of the inconsistency :)

My working title is Fence Destruction Tour


I have a very similar plan for when I retire, though my means of doing so won't be lottery level travel and accommodations. We get out that way often enough though, I have a good suspicion it will be before retirement.

For consistency, don't drink that hater-aide! You are just being progressive and a trend setter. You are leading the post-modern practice, exemplifying the talk of 'only 4 shots' for rallies. You, sir, are the innovator making it happen when others just talk! I would be honored to ride your coat tails to 4 shot post-modern practice glory.
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
I have a very similar plan for when I retire, though my means of doing so won't be lottery level travel and accommodations. We get out that way often enough though, I have a good suspicion it will be before retirement.

For consistency, don't drink that hater-aide! You are just being progressive and a trend setter. You are leading the post-modern practice, exemplifying the talk of 'only 4 shots' for rallies. You, sir, are the innovator making it happen when others just talk! I would be honored to ride your coat tails to 4 shot post-modern practice glory.
Whats old is new again!!! The good old days used to have Sampras/ Goran matches but the rally police wigged out and ruined everything

Fortunately those “rhythm” players hate playing me.

Lets get an RV and do a rec version of the Wilander on Wheels tour. Who would t want to play with rec post modern players???

Who wouldnt watch exciting tennis like this:

 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Whats old is new again!!! The good old days used to have Sampras/ Goran matches but the rally police wigged out and ruined everything

Fortunately those “rhythm” players hate playing me.

Lets get an RV and do a rec version of the Wilander on Wheels tour. Who would t want to play with rec post modern players???

Who wouldnt watch exciting tennis like this:


Already have a toy hauler, so this might work.
Fame and glory awaits, methinks.
 

Bobs tennis

Semi-Pro
I use both and after a while of trying to decide to commit to one or the other, and some good feedback from ya'all, have decided to continue with both.

I first learned the 1HBH and added the 2H 20 years ago right before taking a 20 year break from all activities including tennis to focus on career and family.

I use my 2HBH when I have enough time to set up. In women's 3.5 that certainly includes ROS. It is more powerful and has better top spin than my 1HBH, I rely on it for deep CC shots and deep DTL shots.

My 1HBH for shots where I am under pressure, defensive, potentially on the run out wide ... it is typically more of a top spin slice shot and oddly enough even though it is more of an "instinctive" stroke for me, it produces winners often enough This is exactly where I find myself even the long break to work with career and family.

FWIW, nothing feels as good as a well-executed 1HBH.
I had to remark on this post. I have the same situation even down to the long break for career and family. Have been sticking with which stroke feels best in a situation.

I think some people are just more natural 1 handers and vice versa, I just find the 2 hander uncomfortable and doesnt rly feel like an extension of me, feel much more comfortable and natural with 1 hander.
Friends tell me to hit the 2hbh it's more versatile and more pace but I love the feel of the 1hbh. I guess it's not the worst place to be in. One particular stroke that really causes a lot of confusion is the 1hbh that is met well in front and produces lots of spin and angles
 

Prince Vegeta

Semi-Pro
Friends tell me to hit the 2hbh it's more versatile and more pace but I love the feel of the 1hbh. I guess it's not the worst place to be in. One particular stroke that really causes a lot of confusion is the 1hbh that is met well in front and produces lots of spin and angles

I think I get more pace with the OHBH. And spin
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
My question is for doubles: Does 1hbh or 2hbh matter much in doubles? Since I cover only 1/2 the court and move to my forehand on incoming serves and shots, I rarely hit backhands.
The ratio is probably something like 90/10 or 80/20 FH/BH.
I volley, lob and slice approach with 1hbh. Only on groundstrokes and ROS do I use 2hbh.
But some good, smart servers hit into my body which is more easily blocked back with 1hbh.
Maybe once or twice in a set will I go toe to toe BH to BH.
For sure my court movement is more natural and smoother with 1hbh.
So does 1hbh vs 2hbh matter much in doubles? Jack Sock seems to do fine in doubles even with a bad winning ratio of his BH.

"By the BHP metric, Federer’s backhand is neutral: +0.2 points per 100 backhands. Fed wins most points with his serve and his forehand; a neutral BHP indicates that while his backhand isn’t doing the damage, at least it isn’t working against him. Nadal’s BHP is +1.7 per 100 backhands, a few ticks below those of Murray and Djokovic, whose BHPs are +2.6 and +2.5, respectively. Among the game’s current elite, Kei Nishikorisports the best BHP, at +3.6, while Andre Agassi‘s was a whopping +5.0. At the other extreme, Marin Cilic‘s is -2.9, Milos Raonic‘s is -3.7, and Jack Sock‘s is -6.6. Fortunately, you don’t have to hit very many backhands to shine in doubles."
That's an interesting stat. Would love to see a larger sample of one handers' BHP. Would love to see Wawrinka's BHP.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
One aspect of the 1H vs 2H - longevity. We have Nadal, Murray and Djokovic out with injuries and senior citizen Fed at #1. He did have an injury which took him out but does the OHBH have anything to do with it? I'm not just talking arm injuries but does have a 1HBH make you less likely to be a ball basher (which I think takes a toll on the body over time) and maybe more likely to end points sooner?
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
One aspect of the 1H vs 2H - longevity.

OHBH, with combo of slice and topspin (different motions = stress on different parts of the body), might spread out the wear & tear more than the 2HBH? Slice BH prob easier on the body than 2HBH as well.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
That's an interesting stat. Would love to see a larger sample of one handers' BHP. Would love to see Wawrinka's BHP.

Agreed. Edberg as well for another OHBH data point. Nalbandian for another 2HBH data point.

Agassi's BH definitely under-rated by this metric! Especially on passing shots (which were more common in his era), his 2HBH was wicked!
 

dnguyen

Hall of Fame
There is a device called a "Flexbar" from Thera-Band that might help with your rehab.

Here are some videos on TE [probably also related to GE]:






what about the shoulder problem?

I seem to have one but I'm not sure if it is related to Cymbalta because it can cause several symptoms and one of them is swollen joints which is my right shoulder while serving. Last time I checked my serve motion, nothings wrong it and of course I changed a better serve motion. I had no issues with forehand and backhands, just serving from my shoulder hurts a bit while the match progress and it was fine but next morning I get shoulder pain :(

I think Cymbalta caused it :(
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
Anyone watch Roger's backhand today v. Dimtrov? But it's crazy to draw conclusions for all levels based on the pros. As a few people have said some people are more natural one way or the other. In the long run of your life you're lucky if you are a one-hander.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
Anyone watch Roger's backhand today v. Dimtrov? But it's crazy to draw conclusions for all levels based on the pros. As a few people have said some people are more natural one way or the other. In the long run of your life you're lucky if you are a one-hander.

I watched extended highlights. It's amazing that the young gen (perhaps 2 gens now) can't displace their elders.
I think a lot of credit goes to Ljubicic for restoring confidence in his backhand. Esp. against rafa those levels have changed dramatically.
 
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winstonlim8

Professional
Especially Every who could come over the ball, flatten it or slice it with almost the same-looking swing for great disguise. Connors almost never came over the ball for topspin that I can recall.
 
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I switched to 2HB last autumn, because I was lacking power and precision in my 1HB. it took roughly 3 months of playing (10 days bootcamp with a coach to learn the technique) to get used to the completely new movement and swing, it was really strange at first and took hard practice.
but it's already more consistent than may 1H ever was, and I have now power and can actually attack with it, which I never could with 1HB.
this is a "newbie" speaking, who started playing tennis again some 4 years ago, (ca. 6 hours a week). I learned tennis as a kid, and stopped playing around the age of 18.
one of the reasons I've changed it, is also that the technique has changed a lot since then. the 2HB motion is now completely different than what I was thought as a kid.
back then the wrist was never twisted and never used actually to swing the racquet. now its all about the head droping and pushing upwards creating more topspin, which is also done by the wrists.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
I watched extended highlights. It's amazing that the young gen (perhaps 2 gens now) can't displace their elders.

My belief is that poly strings changed things as they require more years to master them than gut alone. Poly made consistency possible, but because of less predictability, consistency is not offered on a plate.

I think a lot of credit goes to Ljubicic for restoring confidence in his backhand. Esp. against rafa those levels have changed dramatically

Edberg and Ljubicic, no matter who of them did how much, renewed Roger's topspin BH which did suffer bit of damage over ATP years. I don't think lack of confidence in it was by chance, few tweaks made this shot better than ever, for sure, and when shot works technically as good, it's easy to start building confidence in it.

Anyway, it's exciting to watch young Shapovalov playing the onehander (and really good too). Simply because such a shot doesn't deserve vanishing from the ATP. It's great every now or there some really good onehander emerges on the tour.
 
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