The only player who can beat an in-form Djokovic is Wawrinka

[gn]

So whenever Nole loses, he was not in-form.

That sound suspiciously like the "Nadal only loses when injured" car bumper slogan I once saw in Timbuktoo.

Nole was not in form at Montreal and Cinci but suddenly found his form at Flushing ?

Thomasferrett == Troll

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Wawrinka can basically hit past the Grind Threshold (Djoko™). It causes the fabric of the universe to ripple.

There's a natural advantage to be had in playing offensively I'd say, and this is a good example of it.

When defending, you're always reacting to the moves of your opposition; they are thinking and playing ahead of you and you are playing catch-up.

Whether it's rushing in all the time, taking the ball early, or hitting really hard and fast, there is a small advantage over defending to the same degree (if they're both equally good in all other respects, the offensive player wins).

I believe that makes it a little easier for Stan to outdo Novak, compared to Murray for instance.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

It's a real battle for baseline control between Djokovic and Wawrinka. Djokovic tries applying that incremental pressure to Wawrinka but often gets rebuffed and has to reset or is on the defensive and just trying to survive. Wawrinka is one of the few players who can win the positional war against Djokovic.. or currently the only player. At times in the RG semi-final, Murray's backhand was proving to be a more decisive shot than Djokovic's and he was slowly taking control of rallies with the BH-BH dynamic.

 

[DeathGreetsMeWarm]

Murray, Federer just don't have the mettle for it.

I'm not sure what mettle means, but I know that Federer just doesn't have enough firepower to be relevant once a rally with Djokovic begins. Federer often blocks or barely pushes the balls back in -- something unheard of 5-10 years ago.

 

[RalphJ]

I think it's stupid to keep discussing Federer vs Djokovic since it doesn't look like Fed will beat Djok again (in a grand slam).

 

[DeathGreetsMeWarm]

So whenever Nole loses, he was not in-form.

That sound suspiciously like the "Nadal only loses when injured" car bumper slogan I once saw in Timbuktoo.

Nole was not in form at Montreal and Cinci but suddenly found his form at Flushing ?

It's a logical fallacy known as No True Scotsman.

No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion.[1] When faced with a counterexample to auniversal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing").[2]​

Their claim is that an in-form Djokovic never loses. That claim requires defining in-form Djokovic, so what they do is define it to fit their original claim.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

It's a real battle for baseline control between Djokovic and Wawrinka. Djokovic tries applying that incremental pressure to Wawrinka but often gets rebuffed and has to reset or is on the defensive and just trying to survive. Wawrinka is one of the few players who can win the positional war against Djokovic.. or currently the only player. At times in the RG semi-final, Murray's backhand was proving to be a more decisive shot than Djokovic's and he was slowly taking control of rallies with the BH-BH dynamic.

Stan can be awe-inspiring to watch.

What do you think is the issue with Murray?
Just gets down on himself too much?
Can keep the consistency up?

 

[Russeljones]

That's right, the other 141 occasions Djokovic just wasn't in form. The madness is getting better.

 

[BHServe]

The only type of player who can beat an in-form Djokovic is one who can blast him off the court, and the only player capable of that is Wawrinka. Sorry, as talented as Federer is, no amount of placement, finesse, trick plays, etc., can beat an in-form Djokovic. Well, the other way is to outgrind him, but only Nadal can do that. I'm a Federer fan, by the way.

I know it was a HUGE upset, but Nishikori did take it to Novak and simply overpowered him in uso2014 semi final.

 

[KG1965]

Only on red clay.

 

[Gary Duane]

For whatever reason Novak was not playing at his peak, and Stan was. But I would suggest that the emotional toll of finally beating Nadal left Novak not at his best. Why should he have expected the Blitzkrieg that Stan came up with in the final?

The same kind of thing happened in 2014 in the WTF, but this time it was Waw against Fed. Stan is a player who can play as well as any player I have ever seen in ONE match. And his second gear is good enough to get him into a final.

That said, I look at Stan as a spoiler. Sorry, but in no way is Stan on the level of any number of all time greats. In the end he will be known as the guy who took the GS away from Novak. He's not like Nadal, who also took away GSs from Fed but who is also a contender for one of the all time greats.

I'll be surprised if Novak does not get an FO before he is done. I will also be surprised if Stan wins another slam.

In the end this is a guy with 10 titles in his career and exactly 1 masters.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

For whatever reason Novak was not playing at his peak, and Stan was. But I would suggest that the emotional toll of finally beating Nadal left Novak not at his best. Why should he have expected the Blitzkrieg that Stan came up with in the final?

The same kind of thing happened in 2014 in the WTF, but this time it was Waw against Fed. Stan is a player who can play as well as any player I have ever seen in ONE match. And his second gear is good enough to get him into a final.

That said, I look at Stan as a spoiler. Sorry, but in no way is Stan on the level of any number of all time greats. In the end he will be known as the guy who took the GS away from Novak. He's not like Nadal, who also took away GSs from Fed but who is also a contender for one of the all time greats.

I'll be surprised if Novak does not get an FO before he is done. I will also be surprised if Stan wins another slam.

In the end this is a guy with 10 titles in his career and exactly 1 masters.

He should (and probably did) have expected it because that is what Wawrinka consistently brings to Djokovic in their Slam encounters. So that's why.

 

[Mainad]

lol, Wawrinka has pushed Djokovic to more 5 setters than Murray did.

In his career, he's pushed him to 5 compared to Murray's 3 but Murray still has many more wins over Djokovic including in Slam finals. But hey, if you want to lol at that...be my guest.

 

[TheMusicLover]

He should (and probably did) have expected it because that is what Wawrinka consistently brings to Djokovic in their Slam encounters. So that's why.

And not "just" that... anyone who watched Stan's earlier matches at this FO, should have realized he'd be a tough cookie to beat for anyone - and I'm pretty sure Djokovic did.

That said... get well soon, Wawrinka! We NEED you in the mix!

 

[Mainad]

A resurgent Nadal will also be a threat to Djokovic. We need Rafa back in the mix again.

I still find the Djokovic vs Nadal rivalry the most intense while Djokovic vs Wawrinka as most thrilling.

Djokovic vs Murray will just put people to sleep.

Well, it may put YOU to sleep, the rest of us will continue to look forward to their next meeting!

 

[Mainad]

Surprised you forgot about Anderson Mainad!

Oops, so I did. That's yet another fly in the ointment for the Stan groupies round here!

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

A resurgent Nadal will also be a threat to Djokovic. We need Rafa back in the mix again.

I still find the Djokovic vs Nadal rivalry the most intense while Djokovic vs Wawrinka as most thrilling.

Djokovic vs Murray will just put people to sleep.

Sorry but I enjoyed many of their matches. 2012 and 2013 AO encounters, 2011 Rome semi, 2012 Shanghai final, 2012 US Open final, Montreal final this year - just a part of many of their high quality matches.
It is a small rivalry comparing to Djokovic vs Nadal though.

 

[Mainad]

We're talking about recent years. Who cares what happened between 2007 - 2013.

Wawrinka is significantly better since then.

I think for most of us...2013 still counts as a recent year!

 

[FedTheMan]

I think if Fed can somehow keep his 2015 form and improve his aggressiveness on BP for 2 weeks at a slam and Djokovic slightly dips from his 2015 form, Fed can pull it off and beat him in a slam again.

2016 will be the most important year as we will find out a lot about the Big 3's final tally:
-Will Nadal have another amazing comeback year?
-Will Djokovic continue his domination of the tour?
-Will Federer keep up his form and finally claim #18?
-Will the rest of the tour step up like Stan has and make their own history?


I can't wait for next year!

 

[SpinToWin]

It is one thing going over the top after Shanghai and completely other when going over the top after a dominant season, winning 90% of all biggest tournaments.
Who told you every Djoko fan was going over the top? I think they are not the ones who need humblepie the most...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Same thing, whoever makes such reckless claims is making a mistake and I care not which camp it is. However, lately these kinds of Djokovic threads have been excessive in their number and I merely ask for a tiiiiiiiny bit of restraint from most Djokovic's fans (who ironically like to call him humble while bordering the arrogance of some Fed fans). That sound so hard?

Who needs humblepie the most at the moment by the way? Do enlighten me

 

[Mainad]

Didn't Murray go something like 1-10 against Djokovic since 2013?

Yes, he had a back surgery at the end of 2013 which it took him a while to fully recover from (if he ever has). Djokovic has been much more fortunate with his fitness but, of course, you know this already.

snore....zzzzz TE]

Yes, that's what we all want to do whenever you decide to post!

as I previously said, Djokovic vs Murray will just put people to sleep. I rest my case

And as I previously said, you have this curious tendency to quote the word 'people' when talking about just yourself. That borders on megalomania and I would advise you get something done about it before it gets out of hand.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

Who needs humblepie the most at the moment by the way? Do enlighten me

The ones discrediting everything Novak achieved recently and making it look like he was gifted everything. Not attacking Fed fans, just a certain group of people. I, like you, do not care which camp it is.

 

[Doflamingo]

Wawrinka in a nutshell.

Never the expected winner or the favourite in any tournament but has the dagger to strike you like an assassin. Luckily it didn't happen at the USO. ​

 

[Mainad]

Sure, it's his back that's causing him to lose

If Djokovic had had back surgery and his performance had suffered as a result, I'm sure you would have no hesitation in recognising that. But we all know what your agenda is regarding Murray. It's so pathetically obvious and now a mate of your's, probably another of your user-ids, is trying to do the same thing in another thread. Go and do your trolling elsewhere!

 

[sportsfan1]

Agree with the OP. The only players to beat DJ in the last 8 slams/2 years have been Wawrinka (twice - AO '14 and RG '15), Nishikori (USO '14) and Nadal (RG '14). Both Nadal and Nishikori are now crocked, so that leaves only Wawrinka who himself is quite up and down. If DJ and Wawrinka played 10 times in a slam, I would favor DJ 7/10.

Federer and Murray have both failed at least a few times, and regardless of their efforts within the match, DJ did clamp down and close it out in the end. They may still cause a surprise upset, but nobody would bet on it. Federer especially has had quite disheartening failures at Slams against DJ, repeatedly being denied at the cusp and that has got to wear his belief and spirit down. Both those matchups now firmly favor DJ.

 

[SpinToWin]

The ones discrediting everything Novak achieved recently and making it look like he was gifted everything. Not attacking Fed fans, just a certain group of people. I, like you, do not care which camp it is.

I think I know one or two of whom you mean, but if there are more they're probably on my ignore list. What annoys me is that a few posters who do contribute positively to threads (and thus shouldn't be on my ignore list) take part in this trend and I can't ignore it like I can the other stuff as a result.... I've already put at least 3 new posters who (at least apparently/supposedly) are Novak fans on my ignore list due to the incredibly biased content they post and it feels like some quality Novak fans are being caught up in the flow of it.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

I think I know one or two of whom you mean, but if there are more they're probably on my ignore list. What annoys me is that a few posters who do contribute positively to threads (and thus shouldn't be on my ignore list) take part in this trend and I can't ignore it like I can the other stuff as a result.... I've already put at least 3 new posters who (at least apparently/supposedly) are Novak fans on my ignore list due to the incredibly biased content they post and it feels like some quality Novak fans are being caught up in the flow of it.

Well I usually don't even memorize who makes those statements, that is probably the reason I don't have an ignore list of my own. Kind of want to have a good laugh when reading all sorts of nonsense.
As for some Novak fans taking over and posting biased content, I think it is in one way natural, with Djokovic doing very well. I myself would have probably never registered here recently if he was not dominating, though I try not to be biased most of the time. When Nadal achieved what he did in 2013, he probably had a God status here. Same goes for Federer before... The point is not to generalize when seeing a few individuals performing bad actions IMO.

 

[D.Nalby12]

As things stands now, it's true but things can change in Tennis too quickly. At least it used to change quickly. Tennis seems to be entered in static mode in last 3-4 years.. Nothing really has changed except late bloomer Wawrinka hitting peak of his career. Djokovic will not be stopped unless a potential great player from young generation emerges out of nowhere. Dimitrov, Raonic, Nishikori, Sock surely aren't capable of carrying torch but there is ray of hope from Kyrgios- Coric- Kokkinakis generation. Someone will rise (hopefully), till that Wawrinka has to carry responsibility of not allowing Djokovic video game levels of domination.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

The era of the static and the sterile.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

And not "just" that... anyone who watched Stan's earlier matches at this FO, should have realized he'd be a tough cookie to beat for anyone - and I'm pretty sure Djokovic did.

That said... get well soon, Wawrinka! We NEED you in the mix!

Absolutely.


@Gary Duane .. Let's observe the typical blitzkrieg that Wawrinka unleashes on Djokovic in their Slam encounters since the 2013 AO.

2013 AO - Djokovic def. Wawrinka: 1-6 7-5 6-4 6-7(5) 12-10
2013 USO - Djokovic def. Wawrinka: 2-6 7-6 3-6 6-3 6-4
2014 AO - Wawrinka def. Djokovic: 2-6 6-4 6-2 3-6 9-7
2015 AO - Djokovic def. Wawrinka: 7-6(1) 3-6 6-4 4-6 6-0
2015 RG - Wawrinka def. Djokovic: 4-6 6-4 6-3 6-4 (FINALLY a match that only goes FOUR sets)

Out of curiosity, which of these matches did you watch?

 

[ibbi]

Load of rubbish. Lots of guys on their day could beat him, their days just come around so rarely. What exactly was the excuse when Nishikori beat him in New York last year? Or more to the point, what's the excuse that can override uber-fragile Kei coming in to the match off the back of 2 mammoth 5 setters?

 

[Jaitock1991]

Lol, French Open this year was no way an 'in-form' Djokovic. He was tired from Murray semifinal and playing to about 40% capacity.

40%, huh? Wow. And people call this a strong era.

 

[Jaitock1991]

At least then we know that Djokovic can lose tennis matches without being injured, unlike certain others. At least that's something

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Wawrinka in a nutshell.

Never the expected winner or the favourite in any tournament but has the dagger to strike you like an assassin. Luckily it didn't happen at the USO.​

Bwahahahaha! Did you make this? Brilliant. That last expression Federer pulls despite losing is MEGALOL.

 

[Doflamingo]

Bwahahahaha! Did you make this? Brilliant. That last expression Federer pulls despite losing is MEGALOL.

Nah it was on his Twitter lol

But I can still make edits ​

 

[mavsman149]

No one can beat an in-form Nole. If Nole loses it's because he was tired or injured.

It is known.

You're making us sound like Nadal fans

 

[Tennisanity]

Peak Wawa > Peak Djoker. We have the data.

 

[gn]

Or newerer.