The position of the wrist on the OHBH (extension, flexion, deviation)

[ronalditop]

I have some doubts that I'd like someone to clarify if possible. On the OHBH, should there be radial deviation at the start of the swing (either slight or pronounced) or should the wrist be kept in a neutral position?

Also, it's common knowledge that the wrist must be extended throughout the swing. I wonder, does the level of extension changes depending of the grip? I mean if the grip is more open should the extension be less pronounced than if the grip was more extreme?

 

[geca]

Don't worry so much about the wrist as long as you have the racket in an upright position when you prepare. Then the racket drop = internal shoulder rotation. The swing thru the ball = external shoulder rotation.

There maybe some slight pronation/supination going on, but that is only caused by the momentum from the ISR/ESR.. but don't intentionally try to do the pronation/supination as you'd be flipping the racket.

Always approach the ball from the INSIDE. It should feel like you are brushing the inside of the ball.

 

[spacediver]

Also, it's common knowledge that the wrist must be extended throughout the swing. I wonder, does the level of extension changes depending of the grip? I mean if the grip is more open should the extension be less pronounced than if the grip was more extreme?

I'm not sure how you can hit a 1hbh with an extended wrist. Did you mean something different?

 

[Shroud]

I have some doubts that I'd like someone to clarify if possible. On the OHBH, should there be radial deviation at the start of the swing (either slight or pronounced) or should the wrist be kept in a neutral position?

Also, it's common knowledge that the wrist must be extended throughout the swing. I wonder, does the level of extension changes depending of the grip? I mean if the grip is more open should the extension be less pronounced than if the grip was more extreme?

I hate these terms as they are meaningless at least to me.

Even looking at the picts it doesnt make sense to me as none of that seem to speak to a bh:

That said I use extreme grips and I am fairly sure I use almost 90 degrees of extension at contact (at least when using a SW grip).

Sadly I have made some changes in grip and hitting loose and my wrist does something different than it used to but I dont know what it is and well it is working so I don't want to over think it.

Looking at this and not being too literal yes I think I certainly do start with radial deviation, but it seems its mixed with extension if that is possible.

 

[Cheetah]

I have some doubts that I'd like someone to clarify if possible. On the OHBH, should there be radial deviation at the start of the swing (either slight or pronounced) or should the wrist be kept in a neutral position?

Also, it's common knowledge that the wrist must be extended throughout the swing. I wonder, does the level of extension changes depending of the grip? I mean if the grip is more open should the extension be less pronounced than if the grip was more extreme?

It's not common knowledge that the wrist must be extended throughout the swing. It's just the opposite.

Just look at 98% of pros with a 1hbh.

Richard and Roger have slightly extended wrists however their backhands I would say are a little 'different'. Fed with his elbow thing and gasquet has a style all his own.

 

[spacediver]

That said I use extreme grips and I am fairly sure I use almost 90 degrees of extension at contact (at least when using a SW grip).

Just to be clear, we're talking about a one handed backhand here, right? You do realize that in order to hit the ball in even the general direction of the net with full wrist extension (sw grip or not), you would need to have your chest facing the fence behind your baseline.

 

[Shroud]

Just to be clear, we're talking about a one handed backhand here, right? You do realize that in order to hit the ball in even the general direction of the net with full wrist extension (sw grip or not), you would need to have your chest facing the fence behind your baseline.

Maybe its the terms as I said they just dont make sense. But let me try to explain. Put your right hand out in the standard "STOP" gesture. Is that not 90 degrees of extension?

Now turn that hand to the left. Now put a SW grip and well thats what I mean.

Maybe I messed up the terms?

I think its the grip. If you are using normal ones the palm is on top or even in front of the handle. For me its BEHIND the hand.

Said another way, take a SW fh and flip it to the left...

Yes 1 hander

 

[Shroud]

 

[bigservesofthands]

The thing that my instructor taught me which fixed my 1 handed backhand top spin drive was to do the following near or at contact straighten arm, lock wrist, knuckles to the ball and then full follow through punching through the ball with a locked vertical racquet face low to high with my weight behind it. Anything low to waist high I can rip with abandon now and it is a sweet stroke to hit. Need to master the jumping version for high bouncing balls. Haven't got that one down yet. I stick to the safer high arcing moon ball for that one in match play.

 

[spacediver]

that's not full wrist extension by any means.

Anyway, for what it's worth, it appears that a slight amount of wrist extension provides for a stronger grip:

see 10:50-12:30 in this video:

 

[Gyswandir]

Disclaimer: not a coach

Ok: so, assuming an Eastern bh grip, if you are blocking the ball (return of serve, baseline half volley, too fast a balls...), then your wrist is relatively neutral (may be some radial deviation). However, if you are hitting a groundie and have enough time, you should be aiming to release the wrist into the stroke (same like the FH). Perfect timing would be that you are in the middle of wrist extension when contacting the ball. This allows safety from tennis elbow (Chas has referenced a study that shows main difference between high level players and rec ones is the extension of the wrist on the ohbh-you can find it if you look at any of his posts on the ohbh) and adds some top spin

 

[Shroud]

that's not full wrist extension by any means.

Anyway, for what it's worth, it appears that a slight amount of wrist extension provides for a stronger grip:

see 10:50-12:30 in this video:

Actually I cant go much more that that. So for me its pretty close to full extension, at least while holding the racket. Maybe its the angle of the photo. If I am neutral it looks like 60-70 degrees of extension.

Yeah that vid is right. That grip with extension is STRONG. I have always had a strong bh and don't get the "high ball" challenge most seem to have. With that grip its not a problem to hit balls past head height.

Funny thing is that I have changed my FH so I don't hit a SW anymore on the BH but more of an EE. Its not a problem but my wrist has felt weird ever sense then. Its not pain at all its just wrong. It could just be the stretching and strengthening I have been doing but it is different. maybe the grip is not as strong and the wrist feels it?

 

[Cheetah]

A strong grip is not the most important thing on a 1hbh. Racquet head speed is more important. You can move the racquet faster if your wrist is not fully extended.

 

[Shroud]

A strong grip is not the most important thing on a 1hbh. Racquet head speed is more important. You can move the racquet faster if your wrist is not fully extended.

Totally agree.

Long story but I am hitting loose these days and while I didnt agree with what you said months ago, its because I didnt know any better.

I was arming the ball and well a strong grip was needed.

Now I get more spin with a less extreme grip because I think the racket is moving faster and with a more neutral wrist the racket is actually more closed I think.

 

[Cheetah]

Clinton Thomson used to post here. He has a very conservative grip like Youznhy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIJcdMC16rk

 

[spacediver]

According to Clay Ballard, a somewhat loose wrist is key in the backhand, and he even promotes a degree of wrist flexion in providing energy to the forehand (well flexing, relative to the previously extended position, not flexing past neutral).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dlrWzp47Cw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndoyq4R5a48

 

[geca]

The thing that my instructor taught me which fixed my 1 handed backhand top spin drive was to do the following near or at contact straighten arm, lock wrist, knuckles to the ball and then full follow through punching through the ball with a locked vertical racquet face low to high with my weight behind it. Anything low to waist high I can rip with abandon now and it is a sweet stroke to hit. Need to master the jumping version for high bouncing balls. Haven't got that one down yet. I stick to the safer high arcing moon ball for that one in match play.

jumping for high balls?

With all due respect your instructor is teaching you an inferior stroke. The pros don't jump to rip high balls.

Too many 'instructors' out there teaching the wrong thing. The 1hbh should be built with chest-high balls to start. Yes you heard me right. chest-high balls should be the standard feed to build this shot.

 

[geca]

The wrist does whatever it does. You don't lock it.

I can see where the 'locking' idea comes from. It's from the old way of teaching -

"swing from low to high, hit the ball out in front".

Complete garbage.

 

[thomasferrett]

jumping for high balls?

With all due respect your instructor is teaching you an inferior stroke. The pros don't jump to rip high balls.

Too many 'instructors' out there teaching the wrong thing. The 1hbh should be built with chest-high balls to start. Yes you heard me right. chest-high balls should be the standard feed to build this shot.

In my experience, chest high balls are way easier than waist high balls with a 1hbh.

 

[geca]

In my experience, chest high balls are way easier than waist high balls with a 1hbh.

Assuming you are not using some extreme grip as a band-aid, then you are doing the 1hbh correctly. My friend.

 

[ronalditop]

It's not common knowledge that the wrist must be extended throughout the swing. It's just the opposite.

Just look at 98% of pros with a 1hbh.

[/IMG]

Richard and Roger have slightly extended wrists however their backhands I would say are a little 'different'. Fed with his elbow thing and gasquet has a style all his own.

Those pics are great. Wawrinka's wrist is not fully extended, maybe 70%, but Hass's wrist is pretty much neutral, and I believe Wawrinka uses a more extreme grip than Hass.

 

[thomasferrett]

The more extreme the grip, the more extended the wrist at contact. And the higher the ball is in the strike zone, the more flexed the wrist will be. This is simply to keep the racket face perpendicular to the court (and thus square on to the ball) at contact, try it out yourself and you'll see.

So, conservative grippers like Haas, Youzhny and Dimitrov will have some degree of wrist flexion when hitting high balls, and extreme grippers like Gasquet, Mauresmo, Kuerten and Henin will have a significant degree of wrist extension when hitting a waist height ball. Federer and Wawrinka are in-between these grips, so will probably have a neutral wrist when hitting a waist height ball.

@Cheetah, no I don't think the more extended your wrist is at contact the less topspin you'll hit.

Gasquet will have a pretty extended wrist at contact as will Kuerten, and they hit some of the biggest backhand spin in the game.

 

[psmooth]

Don't worry so much about the wrist as long as you have the racket in an upright position when you prepare. Then the racket drop = internal shoulder rotation. The swing thru the ball = external shoulder rotation.

There maybe some slight pronation/supination going on, but that is only caused by the momentum from the ISR/ESR.. but don't intentionally try to do the pronation/supination as you'd be flipping the racket.

Always approach the ball from the INSIDE. It should feel like you are brushing the inside of the ball.

Are you a coach? Or a pretend coach like most of tw?

 

[geca]

Are you a coach? Or a pretend coach like most of tw?

Most are pretends? I don't think so.

 

[spacediver]

Tand extreme grippers like Gasquet, Mauresmo, Kuerten and Henin will have a significant degree of wrist extension when hitting a waist height ball.

I don't see a significant amount of wrist extension in these videos, though hard to tell for sure.

Gasquet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwA90Bj0zyQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuBRallEByc

Henin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBioEMX2IdM

 

[geca]

The wrist flexion/extension angles change through the entire swing. Even at impact moment the angle can change for different ball heights.

Therefore this is a moot point.

 

[ronalditop]

The wrist flexion/extension angles change through the entire swing. Even at impact moment the angle can change for different ball heights.

Therefore this is a moot point.

You're probably right. Though I also think thomasferrett is correct in saying that the more conservative the grip, the less extended the wrist at contact.

There's another thing. In forehands I believe the wrist goes from being at extension and supination at the start of the swing to being less extended/more flexed and pronated at the end. So should the opposite apply to the backhand? That is, should the wrist extend and supinate throughout the swing? In slow motion videos I definitely see supination happening, but the degree of extension doesn't seem to change significantly.

 

[spacediver]

So should the opposite apply to the backhand? That is, should the wrist extend and supinate throughout the swing? In slow motion videos I definitely see supination happening, but the degree of extension doesn't seem to change significantly.

Did you watch the videos in my post?

 

[geca]

You're probably right. Though I also think thomasferrett is correct in saying that the more conservative the grip, the less extended the wrist at contact.

There's another thing. In forehands I believe the wrist goes from being at extension and supination at the start of the swing to being less extended/more flexed and pronated at the end. So should the opposite apply to the backhand? That is, should the wrist extend and supinate throughout the swing? In slow motion videos I definitely see supination happening, but the degree of extension doesn't seem to change significantly.

the 1hbh is basically ISR followed by ESR. Everything else happens happens

 

[ronalditop]

Did you watch the videos in my post?

Just watched the first video. He basically states the wrist is close to a neutral position at the beginning of the swing and starts to extend and pronate until the end of the swing when the wrist is almost at full extension. It also goes from radial to ulnar deviation. Great explanation.

 

[Tight Lines]

Did you watch the videos in my post?

IMO, that hammer analogy is a terrible one. He is essentially saying flick your wrist to achieve RHS at the point of impact. That is not what is happening during a forward swing. There may be a slight wrist release, but mostly it's shoulder rotation.

If you flick your wrist, there is no way you can keep the racket face vertical and pointing toward the target with any consistency. Guaranteed way of spraying your shot everywhere. Sorry, that video is terrible.

Harry