CiscoPC600
Professional
Not as many responses to my question as I was expecting given the popularity of this thread but for the sake of being thorough, is anyone using this frame in 4.5 or higher competition (e.g. tournaments, league matches)?
The Prince Phantom 93P is a gift to us from TW - My Review/AMA
- Thread starter Power Player
- Start date
ej28405
New User
I don’t use poly (never have) and get plenty of spin. I also play a ton of doubles and my net game is probably one of the strongest parts of my game. If you’re insistent on full NG i would recommend 17 or 18g and low 50s, upper 40s for tension. I use 17g Klip Lightning which is NG mains and Multi Syn cross. I have been getting that at 50-51, and 47-48 and it plays great. You don’t have to only play poly with this frame, you just need to use the right gauge and tension.
Nope. I play with size 3 because I feel the grip is small. Typically I prefer a 2. Feel the flare is perfect.
ej28405
New User
I was bumped to 4.5 this past year but its my first year back playing since 4-5 years ago due to shoulder issues so I had that appealed to get back to 4.0 this upcoming season but I play with 4.0’s and 4.5’s if that helps.
Sure
CiscoPC600
Professional
You guys did recommend a thinner gauge string so you were right there, however the tension wasn't the problem because like I said I had trouble with balls sailing long. If anything I should have strung it tighter because I literally had no control whatsoever, not just spin was lacking but the launch angle was insanely high. My volley's were sailing a few inches long too. If I strung it too tight I would've had net clearance problems which wasn't the case. Are you telling me if i strung at 45 lbs that would've reduced my launch angle?
Yes, I see that now. To be honest I have never really liked ANY 18x20's. Before the DR 98 I used a dunlop 18x20 that didn't work for my game either. I don't get any extra control from 18x20 and don't like the boardy feeling
Nah I'm done. I weighted up my DR 98 and ill be back on my A game tomorrow! I'll be interested to hear you guys' thoughts on the 14x18 pattern
If anyone has a DR 98 I will gladly trade that for this brand new 93P
Yes I experienced this also. Lot's of hand discomfort.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I have an L4 grip and not noticing this. I tend to notice wrist issues from smaller grips because they naturally encourage more wrist motion. I wear a wrist wrap when I use my L3’s for support.
So it might be a bit of wrist support will help. Name a tendon and I’ve probably inflamed it at some point playing tennis and bracing does often help.
mhkeuns
Hall of Fame
It’s totally understandable. Some rackets will just click more boxes than others, and the 93P just didn’t do it for you. I actually don’t like it strung with the 18G at 48 lbs and prefer the feel of the 17G poly at 50 lbs. I’m thinking about using the 16G poly at 50lbs to see how it would feel. I’m a flat hitter that prefers ball crushing feel than applying lots of topspin.
I do agree that 60lbs with natural gut is perfectly normal. I strung up the Textreme Tour 95 around 60 lbs with poly crosses at 54lbs, and it actually felt great. Maybe the 93P just isn’t meant to be strung with thick strings or non-poly.
I do love it, though. Cured my holism... for now.
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Thank you! I'm tired of being called crazy for wanting to string natural gut at a normal tension. Like come on.
this is the last 18x20 frame i try though, im thinking thats the common denominator.
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
If the 93P was 95" with a more open pattern and more flexible, it would be my ideal stick. The 2015 TT95 looks like it on paper, but somehow doesn't feel the same.
Power Player
Talk Tennis Guru
It’s not crazy at all. The question is if thats your go to string and tension. You probably said and I missed it.
If I used a hybrid setup still or gut, this frame still be sweet but my game would not be as effective.
18x20 is board at higher tension. It’s glorious at low ones. A thin beam frame with a smaller head can handle crazy low tensions.
The point is basically this - the string setup is the most important thing. Once you figure out what your ideal string and tension range is that wins you the most matches, you can then try out frames with 100% confidence.
The guys I dont get (not you per se) are the ones who say “i just bought this frame - how should I string it up”
The question really should be - I play with this string at this tension - before I buy this frame, how does it play with this setup?
That's pretty much everyone I play against, and I enjoy this raqcuet immensely for this style. I don't like to give up ground, to be pushed behind the baseline, or give up control.
I do like to dictate play, to take time away, to end points and/or come to net. With the 93p I can take a lot of balls right off the bounce, quite low to ground, even near the baseline, and hit a ball that hardly clears the net in any direction.
A lot of people don't mind extended baseline crosscourt rallies from a couple feet behind the baseline. I'd rather take that same ball on the rise, hit it hard out wide to ad side with low net clearance and look to come in. For shots like this I don't find any racquet as stable, comfortable, or capable.
TLDR version: Super satisfying for the hyper-aggressive player looking to neutralize heavy topspin penetration.
I also just reread and want to thank the OP for this thread. Power Player, this review was one of the major reasons I bought this racquet and your initial review is accurate and answers like every question that could be asked. Just reposting a redacted version as a reminder since this is nearing 50 pages and all that.
Jannick
Rookie
It doesn't have to be what you are used to. Some launch angles require adapting, the switch from a sixone95s to pure strike 18x20 was hard because there was an insane launch angle difference but by opening or closing the grip/racquet face more I managed to adjust.
Jannick
Rookie
Had this untill I switched to a synthetic grip. You can also make the butt cap flare less or more if you wrap it yourself.
I use the 93P in my club's Singles league matches, and my APD2013 for doubles matches. I dislike duking it out on the baseline, and with the 93P I find I can flatten cross-court shots as well as add spin for short-angled shots. I also find the added weight of the 93P helps me swing more loosely. It sounds weird, but when I can feel the weight of the racquet better (compared to the APD), I can relax my wrist more when swinging for groundstrokes or services.
The 93P is probably at the upper limit static weight / swing weight of what I can swing with for 2-3 sets game. I tried hitting with a borrowed PS6.1 90 and it was too heavy for me. And it didn't feel as nice as the 93P on contact. My ideal frame is probably around 320g unstrung.
ej28405
New User
I think it's perfectly fine. I've had several matches against some players with heavy deep topspin who are content on rallying. I don't like hitting shoulder high ground strokes with any frame. Keep in mind I'm more of a doubles player so I'm always looking to be aggressive so taking the ball on the rise or chipping / slicing the ball and coming into net to apply pressure I have found works best with this frame. For me the weakest area would have to be being on the defensive. It really is dependent on good timing and hitting it in that sweet spot and being offensive and aggressive -- otherwise you just don't get the depth pace and speed you need a lot of the time. Another thing I've noticed is that sometimes hitting low or short with this frame isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can bring the person into the net where they are less comfortable or making them hit up on the ball works well in doubles for poaching but now I'm getting into more game theory
Do you S&V in singles? I think this frame would pair well with that tactic.Yeah, this definitely wasn't the frame for you to try. Even if it didn't have a leather grip and you did like thin strings, 18x20 racquets definitely feel different, and if you generally don't like them, going with one in a smaller-than-normal head size is just amplifying the problems you already experience in a 98 or 100 inch racquet with an 18x20 pattern.
I'm a 5.0 and I could use it in competition, but I wouldn't. I don't compete much anymore, but still play with some 4.5 friends, usually doubles. When I play with them I have no issue with this racquet at all, but if I were playing in serious competition, I wouldn't use it; I'd use either my 95" CX 200 Tour 18x20 or my 97" VCore Duel G 330.
graycrait
Hall of Fame
I almost wet myself after reading this.
hahah...
Specs on Pro100 sound really good to me as well.. 11.9 weight is perfect and they made it quite a bit more HL... i really hope RA didn't jump up to 64 or something....
Here we go.. gonna check the TW site every hour on the hour..
graycrait
Hall of Fame
Lighter than what if I might ask? If you are comparing to POG 90 then that is sort of like Apples to Oranges. If you are comparing it to Graphite Pro 90 then it is pretty darn close. I suspect like other Phantoms it comes with a Resi Pro grip.
Hmm...the current 93P is listed as being 12.2oz strung weight. The 0.2 difference could be just from having fewer strings....
JOSHL
Hall of Fame
This
ohiostate124
Professional
What grip sizes is the 14x18 coming in?
jonestim
Hall of Fame
I'll probably list
Then figure in QC. My Phantom 93P was around 12.1 strung
POG Mid takes 33 ft of string. I think the Phantom takes around 38-39 and my strings come in at around 16 grams. That amounts to probably around .08 oz (6/39)x16 = 2.46 grams
Then figure in QC. My Phantom 93P was around 12.1 strung
I strung it today at 40 lbs with Hyper G 18. In spite of some of the negative reviews with that string, it’s what I have been using for a couple years - so I thought I would start there. That turned out to be a good decision. I am in love.
I played with a 4.5 friend with whom I usually have competitive points. Not today. I was standing on top of the baseline ripping ground strokes at will. My BH slice was more damaging than I can ever remember. Friend didn’t know what was happening, nor what to do about it. If there was one thing that didn’t click right away, it was the second serve. But I’m confident it will come around with a few adjustments.
Similar to what many others have said - in a good way, this racquet forces me to employ solid fundamentals, good technique, patterns of play, and definitely rewards aggressive all court play. So far so good.
Edit:
Final weight with dampener and Wilson Pro Overgrip - 347g.
I’m playing a practice 8.0 mixed match with it tonight. Assuming that goes well, I intend to play with it for upcoming 8.0 and 9.0 mixed matches. The way I hit with it earlier, I’m not so sure I need to hang on to my PA’s - even for the rare occasion that I play singles.
Yesssssssss
I think you will gel with the second serve after a session or two. It sounds like you're certainly good enough of a player to have a damaging second serve. Perhaps consider playing a couple of service games without using a first serve since it's fairly easy with this stick. You'll probably hold service just fine with this approach.
Former division 1 college, currently 4.5 NTRP. My serve is an important part of my game. If my serve is way off, generally the rest of my game suffers. Flat and slice serves were no problem with the 93p. It’s the kick, which I use a lot on the 2nd delivery, that will take some adjusting. I fully expected some of this - I’ve never played with an 18x20 racquet up until this point.
graycrait
Hall of Fame
LOL. Forgot all about that 18x20 93P.
Yup, I hear you. This is why I'm thinking that going for aggressive kick as first serve may work well for you to build confidence with the 93p. It worked for me anyway. You won't need to do it for long, and you'll be able to win most of those points.
Later on in the match when you've nailed it, and you start throwing in flat service bombs, it's pretty funny.
Well, seems like you can just buy it and return it if you don't like it. Might as well try it out
I got lucky, the lady over the phone told me i'd only be able to get 75% so i am counting my blessings.Well, seems like you can just buy it and return it if you don't like it. Might as well try it out
Definitely demo a frame before you buy!
jonestim
Hall of Fame
I try to buy used first so I can spend some time with it and put my strings in it - demo strings often suck. If I don't like it I can usually sell it for what I paid.
Doaner
New User
So after five singles, three doubles, and around four hours of hitting. I’ve grooved my swing and poundage for the 93p. Never have I thought that I’d be playing with tension at 40lbs with gut/poly and 38 with full poly. It’s pretty solid. I love the racquet. It rewards the effort I put into my shots and that’s what I like. There is no oh that’s a lucky shot you pulled off that shot was all me.
Well, other than the serve, I played about as well as I’ve played tonight in years (including a a journey to 9.0 mixed nationals last year). My 3.5 partner and I beat two of our strongest 4.0’s 7-5, 6-2. Then we split 2 super tie breakers. During that time I missed one volley. One. I still struggled a bit finding the kick serve. Scary to think of the possibilities, once I figure that out. This thing is surgical.
Doaner
New User
Glad you are playing well with the racquet. I had to place the butt in the middle of my palm with this racquet to pull off a kick serve. If I served with the racquet normally in my hand it just didn’t have enough in it to pop. I was getting punished for that and had to play slice serves until I came upon that little adjustment. Hope you find your kick serve soon.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
That’s what I like about it. Playing doubles this week in the desert with the Phantom 100 and I thought I was playing pretty well. Then my new 93p arrived from TW this afternoon so I went out and played a couple sets tonight. Precision was far better on everything, but especially my FH. Opponents were commenting on my depth and the ball really jumping off the court.
And the string I had in this new racket? Gosen sheep micro syn gut 17g at 50lbs. Worked just fine for spin and control but makes an awful sound compared to my usual gut/poly.
mhkeuns
Hall of Fame
Played against a 5.5 player who was using the DR100. He was tall and pretty much blasted away every single shot deep and hard (*including the second serves, which felt like they were well over 100 miles), except when he had easy drop volleys. We split a set each (5-7, 6-4) and had to stop playing, but he commented that he had to pull his shots back and put more spin behind his shots because he said whenever he hit hard flat shots, I was hitting back even harder and actually put him in uncomfortable positions. By no means, it was easy playing against him, but the stability of the 93P is just awesome, especially for being a super thin beamed frame. It was fun playing hard and being pushed to the limit, but I had the confidence of hitting back with just as much authority. The maneuverability really helped me to not be late on most of my shots, and even when I was hopelessly pulled wide, some of the desperate slices actually became penetrating slice winners.
Tennis is a game of millimeters. If we are off just that much, it will show in our games and mess with our minds. The 93P gives me the confidence to swing without hesitation, which in turn gives me less doubts & errors, and more enjoyment in playing the game.
Does anyone else feel that the 93P is one of the best frame for the kick serves? I’m not quite sure if it’s the head shape, or its maneuverability, but I get very easy height/kick on my second serves.
Tennis is a game of millimeters. If we are off just that much, it will show in our games and mess with our minds. The 93P gives me the confidence to swing without hesitation, which in turn gives me less doubts & errors, and more enjoyment in playing the game.
Does anyone else feel that the 93P is one of the best frame for the kick serves? I’m not quite sure if it’s the head shape, or its maneuverability, but I get very easy height/kick on my second serves.
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Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I have a crappy kick serve but what kick I do get is best when serving with the 93P. Can’t get much movement with my so-called “spin” frames. I think it’s a control and confidence thing. I’m never afraid to take a good cut at the ball with the 93p. That leads to more RHS and better spin than you’d expect.
In my case, I probably had developed a host of bad/lazy habits with the PA that are all coming out of the wood work using the 93p. Specific to the kick serve, I think with the PA I had to toss the ball further forward into the court more than I would otherwise - to keep the serve from going long. The adjustment I started to make near the end of our session last night was not to throw the toss so far forward...which was working, but we were almost done at that point. But I can see the potential.
For those of you who had the kick serve clicking right away, I imagine the circular shape of the head of the 93p makes hitting the kick easier than other, more tear drop shaped 18x20 racquets.
For those of you who had the kick serve clicking right away, I imagine the circular shape of the head of the 93p makes hitting the kick easier than other, more tear drop shaped 18x20 racquets.
My POG Mid weighs 340g and Graphite Pro Mid 380g (strung, dampener & overgrip)
Getting my second 93p and deciding on string. I have gut/poly in one and am coming back from injury so I think I will go full multi in my second one. Considering:
- rip ctrl
- velocity
- yonex rexis
All 17g. I have a good sense of the first two but has anybody played Rexis before?
thx
- rip ctrl
- velocity
- yonex rexis
All 17g. I have a good sense of the first two but has anybody played Rexis before?
thx