CiscoPC600
Professional
Not as many responses to my question as I was expecting given the popularity of this thread but for the sake of being thorough, is anyone using this frame in 4.5 or higher competition (e.g. tournaments, league matches)?
I don’t use poly (never have) and get plenty of spin. I also play a ton of doubles and my net game is probably one of the strongest parts of my game. If you’re insistent on full NG i would recommend 17 or 18g and low 50s, upper 40s for tension. I use 17g Klip Lightning which is NG mains and Multi Syn cross. I have been getting that at 50-51, and 47-48 and it plays great. You don’t have to only play poly with this frame, you just need to use the right gauge and tension.My instinct told me this too, but I went against better judgement and saw how people were raving about how spin friendly it was, and it probably is with 18 or 19 gauge strings, but I'm just not a person who wants to use poly due to me not owning a stringing machine and I like to come to net often and use dropshots. My DR 98 had more than enough spin even with full natty gut
Nope. I play with size 3 because I feel the grip is small. Typically I prefer a 2. Feel the flare is perfect.Anyone having any hand discomfort with this racquet. Specifically, mild discomfort in the muscle between the ulnar side of the wrist and the pinky finger. I think I am getting this because of the extreme flare of the buttcap (relatively speaking compared to my other racquets). Playing a size 2. Just curious....about to buy a second 93p but this is bugging me a bit.
I was bumped to 4.5 this past year but its my first year back playing since 4-5 years ago due to shoulder issues so I had that appealed to get back to 4.0 this upcoming season but I play with 4.0’s and 4.5’s if that helps.Not as many responses to my question as I was expecting given the popularity of this thread but for the sake of being thorough, is anyone using this frame in 4.5 or higher competition (e.g. tournaments, league matches)?
SureNot as many responses to my question as I was expecting given the popularity of this thread but for the sake of being thorough, is anyone using this frame in 4.5 or higher competition (e.g. tournaments, league matches)?
You guys did recommend a thinner gauge string so you were right there, however the tension wasn't the problem because like I said I had trouble with balls sailing long. If anything I should have strung it tighter because I literally had no control whatsoever, not just spin was lacking but the launch angle was insanely high. My volley's were sailing a few inches long too. If I strung it too tight I would've had net clearance problems which wasn't the case. Are you telling me if i strung at 45 lbs that would've reduced my launch angle?Is this where I get to say I told you so?
It’s a very string dependent frame. With lower tensions you’ll get more dwell time and this will lead to more spin. This will help. With smaller gauges you’ll get less string friction and more ball bite and thus more spin. This will help.
I said it would feel like a canoe paddle with gut at 60lbs. Then you try it and say it feels like a canoe paddle and I’m left scratching my head. Put in gut at 50 with a poly cross at 45 all at 17 g and then try it for a week. Can’t judge a racket with completely wrong strings.
Yes, I see that now. To be honest I have never really liked ANY 18x20's. Before the DR 98 I used a dunlop 18x20 that didn't work for my game either. I don't get any extra control from 18x20 and don't like the boardy feelingfeeling when i saw the string and tension that you wouldn’t be happy. This is a low 40s full poly frame honestly. I wouldnt like it at 60 pounds with gut either.
Nah I'm done. I weighted up my DR 98 and ill be back on my A game tomorrow! I'll be interested to hear you guys' thoughts on the 14x18 patternWait a few weeks to see if they release a more open pattern. They brought back every feature on this frame to resemble the classic 93s except for the open 14x18 pattern. Time will tell.
Yes I experienced this also. Lot's of hand discomfort.Anyone having any hand discomfort with this racquet. Specifically, mild discomfort in the muscle between the ulnar side of the wrist and the pinky finger. I think I am getting this because of the extreme flare of the buttcap (relatively speaking compared to my other racquets). Playing a size 2. Just curious....about to buy a second 93p but this is bugging me a bit.
I have an L4 grip and not noticing this. I tend to notice wrist issues from smaller grips because they naturally encourage more wrist motion. I wear a wrist wrap when I use my L3’s for support.Anyone having any hand discomfort with this racquet. Specifically, mild discomfort in the muscle between the ulnar side of the wrist and the pinky finger. I think I am getting this because of the extreme flare of the buttcap (relatively speaking compared to my other racquets). Playing a size 2. Just curious....about to buy a second 93p but this is bugging me a bit.
It’s totally understandable. Some rackets will just click more boxes than others, and the 93P just didn’t do it for you. I actually don’t like it strung with the 18G at 48 lbs and prefer the feel of the 17G poly at 50 lbs. I’m thinking about using the 16G poly at 50lbs to see how it would feel. I’m a flat hitter that prefers ball crushing feel than applying lots of topspin.You guys did recommend a thinner gauge string so you were right there, however the tension wasn't the problem because like I said I had trouble with balls sailing long. If anything I should have strung it tighter because I literally had no control whatsoever, not just spin was lacking but the launch angle was insanely high. My volley's were sailing a few inches long too. If I strung it too tight I would've had net clearance problems which wasn't the case. Are you telling me if i strung at 45 lbs that would've reduced my launch angle?
Yes, I see that now. To be honest I have never really liked ANY 18x20's. Before the DR 98 I used a dunlop 18x20 that didn't work for my game either. I don't get any extra control from 18x20 and don't like the boardy feeling
Nah I'm done. I weighted up my DR 98 and ill be back on my A game tomorrow! I'll be interested to hear you guys' thoughts on the 14x18 pattern
If anyone has a DR 98 I will gladly trade that for this brand new 93P
Thank you! I'm tired of being called crazy for wanting to string natural gut at a normal tension. Like come on.It’s totally understandable. Some rackets will just click more boxes than others, and the 93P just didn’t do it for you. I actually don’t like it strung with the 18G at 48 lbs and prefer the feel of the 17G poly at 50 lbs. I’m thinking about using the 16G poly at 50lbs to see how it would feel. I’m a flat hitter that prefers ball crushing feel than applying lots of topspin.
I do agree that 60lbs with natural gut is perfectly normal. I strung up the Textreme Tour 95 around 60 lbs with poly crosses at 54lbs, and it actually felt great. Maybe the 93P just isn’t meant to be strung with thick strings or on-poly.
I do love it, though. Cured my holism... for now.
If the 93P was 95" with a more open pattern and more flexible, it would be my ideal stick. The 2015 TT95 looks like it on paper, but somehow doesn't feel the same.Wait a few weeks to see if they release a more open pattern. They brought back every feature on this frame to resemble the classic 93s except for the open 14x18 pattern. Time will tell.
It’s not crazy at all. The question is if thats your go to string and tension. You probably said and I missed it.Thank you! I'm tired of being called crazy for wanting to string natural gut at a normal tension. Like come on.
this is the last 18x20 frame i try though, im thinking thats the common denominator.
That's pretty much everyone I play against, and I enjoy this raqcuet immensely for this style. I don't like to give up ground, to be pushed behind the baseline, or give up control.
I also just reread and want to thank the OP for this thread. Power Player, this review was one of the major reasons I bought this racquet and your initial review is accurate and answers like every question that could be asked. Just reposting a redacted version as a reminder since this is nearing 50 pages and all that.
The frame is exceptionally solid, but very easy to whip through contact. One standout shot for me was that on wide shots to my forehand side, I could hit heavy returns with seemingly laser placement. So counterpunching with this frame was surprisingly effective due to the high level of accuracy.
Trajectory was predictably lower than an open patterned 100, but since the frame is so well balanced, it was not that difficult to whip through the shot and lift the ball over the net... and squash shots are equally nasty.
Serve - It is so fun to serve with this frame that I did not want to stop. The stand out feature of it is how easy it comes through contact. It was almost effortless to serve flat, slice or topspin. If you enjoy practicing serving, this frame may be worth a purchase just for that reason.
Feel - It's more Head than Wilson, but it has that firmer feel of the Wilson and plays like that too. I really believe most people will be quite happy with how this racquet feels on contact. It's got that rare ideal balance between crisp and plush/muted that most players will really, really enjoy.
String - string it low. Full poly at 45#s is great. I would go with 17 gauge, personally.
Buy it. The worst thing that happens is you have a fantastic frame that will make you a better player sitting in the bag next to your Babolats. That's my plan, at least.
It doesn't have to be what you are used to. Some launch angles require adapting, the switch from a sixone95s to pure strike 18x20 was hard because there was an insane launch angle difference but by opening or closing the grip/racquet face more I managed to adjust.It’s more a launch angle issue to me. The racket swings fast and easy for me, but it hits with lower launch. To get the angle more to what I’m used to, i had to lower string tensions.
Had this untill I switched to a synthetic grip. You can also make the butt cap flare less or more if you wrap it yourself.Anyone having any hand discomfort with this racquet. Specifically, mild discomfort in the muscle between the ulnar side of the wrist and the pinky finger. I think I am getting this because of the extreme flare of the buttcap (relatively speaking compared to my other racquets). Playing a size 2. Just curious....about to buy a second 93p but this is bugging me a bit.
I use the 93P in my club's Singles league matches, and my APD2013 for doubles matches. I dislike duking it out on the baseline, and with the 93P I find I can flatten cross-court shots as well as add spin for short-angled shots. I also find the added weight of the 93P helps me swing more loosely. It sounds weird, but when I can feel the weight of the racquet better (compared to the APD), I can relax my wrist more when swinging for groundstrokes or services.Not as many responses to my question as I was expecting given the popularity of this thread but for the sake of being thorough, is anyone using this frame in 4.5 or higher competition (e.g. tournaments, league matches)?
I think it's perfectly fine. I've had several matches against some players with heavy deep topspin who are content on rallying. I don't like hitting shoulder high ground strokes with any frame. Keep in mind I'm more of a doubles player so I'm always looking to be aggressive so taking the ball on the rise or chipping / slicing the ball and coming into net to apply pressure I have found works best with this frame. For me the weakest area would have to be being on the defensive. It really is dependent on good timing and hitting it in that sweet spot and being offensive and aggressive -- otherwise you just don't get the depth pace and speed you need a lot of the time. Another thing I've noticed is that sometimes hitting low or short with this frame isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can bring the person into the net where they are less comfortable or making them hit up on the ball works well in doubles for poaching but now I'm getting into more game theory
Thank you everyone for your patience! There will be two Phantoms launching in 1-2 weeks! We don't have final specs yet (we do not have our final sampling to average) but I can give you approximate specs of what we are able to.
Phantom Pro 93P 14x18: beam width - 20/18/16, approx 12 ounces strung, 7 pts Head Light, flex in the low 60s, swing weight approx 325
Phantom Pro 100 18x20: beam width - 20/18/16, approx 11.9 ounces strung, 8-9 pts Head Light
Hope that holds you over for a couple more days!
Thanks,
Brittany, TW
Yeah, this definitely wasn't the frame for you to try. Even if it didn't have a leather grip and you did like thin strings, 18x20 racquets definitely feel different, and if you generally don't like them, going with one in a smaller-than-normal head size is just amplifying the problems you already experience in a 98 or 100 inch racquet with an 18x20 pattern.18x20's don't normally work for me, I don't like leather grips, and I like to use thick strings
I'm a 5.0 and I could use it in competition, but I wouldn't. I don't compete much anymore, but still play with some 4.5 friends, usually doubles. When I play with them I have no issue with this racquet at all, but if I were playing in serious competition, I wouldn't use it; I'd use either my 95" CX 200 Tour 18x20 or my 97" VCore Duel G 330.is anyone using this frame in 4.5 or higher competition (e.g. tournaments, league matches)?
I almost wet myself after reading this.Phantom Pro 93P 14x18: beam width - 20/18/16, approx 12 ounces strung, 7 pts Head Light, flex in the low 60s, swing weight approx 325
hahah...I almost wet myself after reading this.
Here we go.. gonna check the TW site every hour on the hour..I almost wet myself after reading this.
Lighter than what if I might ask? If you are comparing to POG 90 then that is sort of like Apples to Oranges. If you are comparing it to Graphite Pro 90 then it is pretty darn close. I suspect like other Phantoms it comes with a Resi Pro grip.interesting that the 14x18 93P is lighter? 12oz strung...
Hmm...the current 93P is listed as being 12.2oz strung weight. The 0.2 difference could be just from having fewer strings....Lighter than what if I might ask? If you are comparing to POG 90 then that is sort of like Apples to Oranges. If you are comparing it to Graphite Pro 90 then it is pretty darn close. I suspect like other Phantoms it comes with a Resi Pro grip.
ThisHmm...the current 93P is listed as being 12.2oz strung weight. The 0.2 difference could be just from having fewer strings....
POG Mid takes 33 ft of string. I think the Phantom takes around 38-39 and my strings come in at around 16 grams. That amounts to probably around .08 oz (6/39)x16 = 2.46 gramsHmm...the current 93P is listed as being 12.2oz strung weight. The 0.2 difference could be just from having fewer strings....
I strung it today at 40 lbs with Hyper G 18. In spite of some of the negative reviews with that string, it’s what I have been using for a couple years - so I thought I would start there. That turned out to be a good decision. I am in love.UPS just came and delivered a 93p. Looks good. 327g unstrung. Will string it up in the next day or 2 and take it for a spin.
I’m playing a practice 8.0 mixed match with it tonight. Assuming that goes well, I intend to play with it for upcoming 8.0 and 9.0 mixed matches. The way I hit with it earlier, I’m not so sure I need to hang on to my PA’s - even for the rare occasion that I play singles.Not as many responses to my question as I was expecting given the popularity of this thread but for the sake of being thorough, is anyone using this frame in 4.5 or higher competition (e.g. tournaments, league matches)?
YesssssssssI strung it today at 40 lbs with Hyper G 18. In spite of some of the negative reviews with that string, it’s what I have been using for a couple years - so I thought I would start there. That turned out to be a good decision. I am in love.
I played with a 4.5 friend with whom I usually have competitive points. Not today. I was standing on top of the baseline ripping ground strokes at will. My BH slice was more damaging than I can ever remember. Friend didn’t know what was happening, nor what to do about it. If there was one thing that didn’t click right away, it was the second serve. But I’m confident it will come around with a few adjustments.
Similar to what many others have said - in a good way, this racquet forces me to employ solid fundamentals, good technique, patterns of play, and definitely rewards aggressive all court play. So far so good.
Edit:
Final weight with dampener and Wilson Pro Overgrip - 347g.
Former division 1 college, currently 4.5 NTRP. My serve is an important part of my game. If my serve is way off, generally the rest of my game suffers. Flat and slice serves were no problem with the 93p. It’s the kick, which I use a lot on the 2nd delivery, that will take some adjusting. I fully expected some of this - I’ve never played with an 18x20 racquet up until this point.Yesssssssss
I think you will gel with the second serve after a session or two. It sounds like you're certainly good enough of a player to have a damaging second serve. Perhaps consider playing a couple of service games without using a first serve since it's fairly easy with this stick. You'll probably hold service just fine with this approach.
LOL. Forgot all about that 18x20 93P.Hmm...the current 93P is listed as being 12.2oz strung weight.
Yup, I hear you. This is why I'm thinking that going for aggressive kick as first serve may work well for you to build confidence with the 93p. It worked for me anyway. You won't need to do it for long, and you'll be able to win most of those points.Former division 1 college, currently 4.5 NTRP. My serve is an important part of my game. If my serve is way off, generally the rest of my game suffers. Flat and slice serves were no problem with the 93p. It’s the kick, which I use a lot on the 2nd delivery, that will take some adjusting. I fully expected some of this - I’ve never played with an 18x20 racquet up until this point.
Well, seems like you can just buy it and return it if you don't like it. Might as well try it outLuckily i live in GA and we have a TW retail store here so I was able to get full credit for my 93p. So sorry guys it isn't for sale anymore.
Look forward to hearing you guys' thoughts on the 14x18 though, interesting string pattern there.
I got lucky, the lady over the phone told me i'd only be able to get 75% so i am counting my blessings.Well, seems like you can just buy it and return it if you don't like it. Might as well try it out![]()
I try to buy used first so I can spend some time with it and put my strings in it - demo strings often suck. If I don't like it I can usually sell it for what I paid.I got lucky, the lady over the phone told me i'd only be able to get 75% so i am counting my blessings.
Definitely demo a frame before you buy!
Glad you are playing well with the racquet. I had to place the butt in the middle of my palm with this racquet to pull off a kick serve. If I served with the racquet normally in my hand it just didn’t have enough in it to pop. I was getting punished for that and had to play slice serves until I came upon that little adjustment. Hope you find your kick serve soon.Well, other than the serve, I played about as well as I’ve played tonight in years (including a a journey to 9.0 mixed nationals last year). My 3.5 partner and I beat two of our strongest 4.0’s 7-5, 6-2. Then we split 2 super tie breakers. During that time I missed one volley. One. I still struggled a bit finding the kick serve. Scary to think of the possibilities, once I figure that out. This thing is surgical.
That’s what I like about it. Playing doubles this week in the desert with the Phantom 100 and I thought I was playing pretty well. Then my new 93p arrived from TW this afternoon so I went out and played a couple sets tonight. Precision was far better on everything, but especially my FH. Opponents were commenting on my depth and the ball really jumping off the court.This thing is surgical.
My POG Mid weighs 340g and Graphite Pro Mid 380g (strung, dampener & overgrip)Lighter than what if I might ask? If you are comparing to POG 90 then that is sort of like Apples to Oranges. If you are comparing it to Graphite Pro 90 then it is pretty darn close. I suspect like other Phantoms it comes with a Resi Pro grip.