The Prince Phantom 93P is a gift to us from TW - My Review/AMA

Dude, first off I was replying to @haqq777 earlier comment from page 8 of this thread where he mentioned that it helps to have something with more forgiveness since he is pretty fit already (I've seen him play), wasn't talking about you at all so stop being sensitive. And number 2, if you already play at a decent enough level it is harder to find motivation to further improve on conditioning, thats why I said it is not very realistic since not everyone is gung-ho about improving conditioning. You gotta stop taking things so personal.
Why do you keep saying I take it personally? You said it twice in one paragraph, which is incredibly passive aggressive.

You were clearly addressing what I said as well. Haqq did not mention fitness at all in the post you replied to - I did. I mean, that’s blantantly obvious if you scroll down from his post to mine. This is a 50 page thread, so referencing page 8 is not something anyone is going to do. I would hope you can see that.

I believe Haqq is fit. He tries a lot of gear out, plays tennis all the time and I have no problem with his opinion at all.

Your point #2 is simply not true at all for everyone. It’s ambiguous at best. What is a decent enough level? What will cost you a match more- mental and physical fatigue or a frame that has a 3 inch smaller sweetspot?

And yes, if you are not “gung ho” about conditioning that is fine. I simply said it will give you a bigger advantage on the tennis court than any racquet.
 
Why do you keep saying I take it personally? You said it twice in one paragraph, which is incredibly passive aggressive.

You were clearly addressing what I said as well. Haqq did not mention fitness at all in the post you replied to - I did. I mean, that’s blantantly obvious if you scroll down from his post to mine. This is a 50 page thread, so referencing page 8 is not something anyone is going to do. I would hope you can see that.

I believe Haqq is fit. He tries a lot of gear out, plays tennis all the time and I have no problem with his opinion at all.

Your point #2 is simply not true at all for everyone. It’s ambiguous at best. What is a decent enough level? What will cost you a match more- mental and physical fatigue or a frame that has a 3 inch smaller sweetspot?

And yes, if you are not “gung ho” about conditioning that is fine. I simply said it will give you a bigger advantage on the tennis court than any racquet.
Anything can come off as passive aggressive. It is the internet afterall. It is the way you read it and take it that in turn draws the picture for you. That is on you brother, not me.

And no for the second time, I was not addressing you. Look up, right above my comment is his comment and he has a link in there to his post from page. Read through that post. Then read my reply. Does it come off as I was addressing you? I will let you be the judge. If I needed to address you, I will say it to your face. why would I not hit reply and answer your post? So yeah, I'm not on here to troll if that is what you were implying.

And finally, my point is pretty valid. I see a lot of people, adults who play rec tennis even USTA matches and are in it to enjoy the game, not to play on the ATP circuit. Above average fitness too. The active kind who like outdoorsy stuff. So when I say they lack the motivation to improve their tennis because they are aready decent level fit, how does that make it ambiguous? I am not kidding I'm about to go hit with one such guy in a few hours. Played college golf. Just turned 30. Very decent shape. A very good 4.0 player. Why would he want to kill himself improving his tennis when he is having fun at his level and enjoying his game? Hope my comment makes sense now.
 
Anything can come off as passive aggressive. It is the internet afterall. It is the way you read it and take it that in turn draws the picture for you.

No I was not addressing you. Look up, right above my comment is his comment and he has a link in there to his post from page. Read through that post. Then read my reply. Does it come off as I was addressing you? I will let you be the judge. If I needed to address you, I will say it to your office. You are not exactly Freddy Kruger that I would be scared of. It is a forum where everyone exchanges views. I'm not on here to troll.

And finally, my point is pretty valid. I see a lot of people, adults who play rec tennis even USTA matches and are in it to enjoy the game, not to play on the ATP circuit. Above average fitness too. The active kind who like outdoorsy stuff. So when I say they lack the motivation to improve their tennis because they are aready decent level fit, how does that make it ambiguous? I am not kidding I'm about to go hit with one such guy in a few hours. Played college golf. Just turned 30. Very decent shape. A very good 4.0 player. Why would he want to kill himself improving his tennis when he is having fun at his level and enjoying his game?
Again, if you simply read downwards it would seem like you were addressing my post as well. If you were not, that is totally fine, but there is no need to make a character judgment of me because I read your post in a linear way on a mobile phone. It did come off as addressing me since it hit upon the same points I just posted, which is why I responded. If you are saying your post had nothing to do with responding to mine at all, then no problem.


I am not sure what your second point means. We all enjoy the game I would hope. I am still saying that the racquet is probably going to make the smallest amount of difference when it comes to winning and losing. Why would someone not want to get in better shape and not want to improve? I can’t answer that because it is their personal decision. I recognize that many people just play for fun, but my post was more responding to being asked if I still use the frame and also addressing if the frame works against higher level players. Some of the best guys I have played with are using 10 year old frames that they got for free, and they destroy about everyone down here.
 
Last edited:
I’m a new user (*because I resisted - didn’t see a point in buying something that was similar to the PB10, which I loved but wasn’t gett8ng the best results), and it is my main stick. I’m in the process of getting rid of most of my frames, but the 93P is a keeper. It just fits my needs perfectly because I needed something that gave me more control to swing out confidently than the tweeners but also needed something that was less tiresome than the bat-like frames like the RF97. The frame really is fantastic and is the best fit for my game.

That said, my daughter, who will turn 16 this year, just beat me in short sprints. We were doing a little drill where we’d run from the baseline to the service line, then back to the baseline to the net, then back to the baseline. Not even going to challenge her in 100 yards.

How do I get back the steps that I had 30 years ago? I’m still a decent mover, but I’d never allow an easy drop shot or volleys when I played competitive tennis, even at the college level. Now, I compliment the shot even before they land. I would still love to be able to hit with the Pro Staff Midsize and be effective against good players, but until I get my lost steps back, I’ll stick with the 93P.
 
I’m a new user (*because I resisted - didn’t see a point in buying something that was similar to the PB10, which I loved but wasn’t gett8ng the best results), and it is my main stick. I’m in the process of getting rid of most of my frames, but the 93P is a keeper. It just fits my needs perfectly because I needed something that gave me more control to swing out confidently than the tweeners but also needed something that was less tiresome than the bat-like frames like the RF97. The frame really is fantastic and is the best fit for my game.

That said, my daughter, who will turn 16 this year, just beat me in short sprints. We were doing a little drill where we’d run from the baseline to the service line, then back to the baseline to the net, then back to the baseline. Not even going to challenge her in 100 yards.

How do I get back the steps that I had 30 years ago? I’m still a decent mover, but I’d never allow an easy drop shot or volleys when I played competitive tennis, even at the college level. Now, I compliment the shot even before they land. I would still love to be able to hit with the Pro Staff Midsize and be effective against good players, but until I get my lost steps back, I’ll stick with the 93P.
Just kind of curious when you feel like you really started to notice age take a hit on your speed. I'm closer to 40 than 30, but still faster than most college athletes. The loss of speed is constantly on my mind.
 
Again, if you simply read downwards it would seem like you were addressing my post as well. If you were not, that is totally fine, but there is no need to make a character judgment of me because I read your post in a linear way on a mobile phone. It did come off as addressing me since it hit upon the same points I just posted, which is why I responded. If you are saying your post had nothing to do with responding to mine at all, than no problem.


I am not sure what your second point means. We all enjoy the game I would hope. I am still saying that the racquet is probably going to make the smallest amount of difference when it comes to winning and losing. Why would someone not want to get in better shape and not want to improve? I can’t answer that because it is their personal decision. I recognize that many people just play for fun, but my post was more responding to being asked if I still use the frame and also addressing if the frame works against higher level players. Some of the best guys I have played with are using 10 year old frames that they got for free, and they destroy about everyone down here.
I'm surprised you keep calling it character judgement when you were the one who took it upon yourself to think a comment was made about you when it did not even tag you or was a reply to you. I am not new here, so I know how the board functions work (tagging, replying etc) and not only that ,we have had conversations about equipment in the past as well. I was telling you to not take it personal and yet I'm the culprit here passing judgement? Not sure whether I should laugh or be offended. Anyway, I don't wish to further this. Even on an anonymous board, I hate meanness and snarky comments. I sincerely do mean when I say it wasn't about you.

My second point is that at a certain level of play, where fitness is decent enough, people lack motivation to improve conditioning - something you contested in your first reply to me a few posts back. I didn't say racquet is all the difference, like you implying I said. In fact I agree that you will find players using beat up 20 year old racquets kicking everyone's behind. But that wasn't the point of contention anyway. My point was that realistically speaking, people do not have the motivation to go above and beyond to improve their conditioning to better their tennis skills, especially if they already have decent level fitness. Will improving fitness help them, no question.

I think we are talking about two different things and looking at them the same way.
 
There is a reason why college tennis is full of Blades, Radicals, Pure Drives and Pure Aeros :) - these are modern feeling, modern playing racquets with power on tap that don't require exquisite footwork all the time and help hit a big, heavier ball more easily on the run and from everywhere. Definitely not a knock on the 93P as I mentioned I like the racquet myself. And if you are more of an all-court player, it might work too. But high level college tennis is mostly about baseline grind with heavy topspin, not quite the 93P's forte.
Indeed there are a lot of bab's but what's the reason ? Easy to play and nice colours. I tested a few babolats, there were all bad imo, no feel, '' easy to play '' but you dont really know what you do with them , head are OK but not fantastic as 93P is. It,'s true I play a flat game towards the net and 93P is the only racquet that allows me to play inside the court even against heavy top spin, that's why i like it so much
 
Just kind of curious when you feel like you really started to notice age take a hit on your speed. I'm closer to 40 than 30, but still faster than most college athletes. The loss of speed is constantly on my mind.
Honestly, it really sucked for me when I began noticing it, but I couldn’t get to the drop shots and such that I would have dug out around 45, or so. I’m still one of the faster player, and my daughter is one of the fastest player in her team, but currently at 49, I just don’t feel that I have the leg strength or stability that I used to have. Also, I’ve been cramping a lot, which is also horrible. I can still hang with young players in their 20’s and 30’s who’s played competitive tennis but only for a set or two, and I am out with cramps... because I am not in shape to keep going hard against more fit players.

What can be done at my age to get, even get a step back? Not even asking for two steps.
 
Honestly, it really sucked for me when I began noticing it, but I couldn’t get to the drop shots and such that I would have dug out around 45, or so. I’m still one of the faster player, and my daughter is one of the fastest player in her team, but currently at 49, I just don’t feel that I have the leg strength or stability that I used to have. Also, I’ve been cramping a lot, which is also horrible. I can still hang with young players in their 20’s and 30’s who’s played competitive tennis but only for a set or two, and I am out with cramps... because I am not in shape to keep going hard against more fit players.

What can be done at my age to get, even get a step back? Not even asking for two steps.
Ok that brings up another point: did you ever suffer from cramps at a younger age? I have never had a cramp while playing, and not sure if that's something else I get to look forward to with age or not.

Do you do any cross training? I am by no means qualified to talk about fitness from a certified point of view. My own experience, what helps me, is riding a Peloton bike and going to the gym semi-regularly and doing a good leg day.
 
Indeed there are a lot of bab's but what's the reason ? Easy to play and nice colours. I tested a few babolats, there were all bad imo, no feel, '' easy to play '' but you dont really know what you do with them , head are OK but not fantastic as 93P is. It,'s true I play a flat game towards the net and 93P is the only racquet that allows me to play inside the court even against heavy top spin, that's why i like it so much
Yes, in my humble opinion, 93P is indeed a great all-court player's stick. I do admittedly have a soft spot for Babolats as I played with them for a long time. The swirly Pure Control Tours (circa 2001) and then the Pure Storm GT Tours (circa 2009) are among my all time favorite Babolats and they feel nothing like the modern lines available. Absolute beasts that hit a big ball and feedback isn't tinny or brassy like some associate with modern Babolats. But it is what it is :)
 
I'm surprised you keep calling it character judgement when you were the one who took it upon yourself to think a comment was made about you when it did not even tag you or was a reply to you. I am not new here, so I know how the board functions work (tagging, replying etc) and not only that ,we have had conversations about equipment in the past as well. I was telling you to not take it personal and yet I'm the culprit here passing judgement? Not sure whether I should laugh or be offended. Anyway, I don't wish to further this. Even on an anonymous board, I hate meanness and snarky comments. I sincerely do mean when I say it wasn't about you.

My second point is that at a certain level of play, where fitness is decent enough, people lack motivation to improve conditioning - something you contested in your first reply to me a few posts back. I didn't say racquet is all the difference, like you implying I said. In fact I agree that you will find players using beat up 20 year old racquets kicking everyone's behind. But that wasn't the point of contention anyway. My point was that realistically speaking, people do not have the motivation to go above and beyond to improve their conditioning to better their tennis skills, especially if they already have decent level fitness. Will improving fitness help them, no question.

I think we are talking about two different things and looking at them the same way.

For the record, you are now the one taking it personally. Lol. Just let it go if its not a big deal to you.

On the second part i agree that we are talking about 2 different things. People who are asking if you can compete at a high level with this racquet want to compete at a high level. So if that is the case i do believe it can be done, but my opinion is that its not about the racquet anymore once you get to that point.

I also think there are advantages to playing with a mid. In this case, basically a 95 size frame. It is very maneuverable. Much more so than a apd. So
It allows me to generate the same amount of tip without wearing down. It allows more touch on the ball for me. All of these things matter at all levels. If someone can do all those things with a stiffer thicker frame and is happy with it than there is no need to try this racquet. I believe this racquet was made for people who want the old school characteristics without feeling handicapped out there on the court. Based on your signature I would imagine you know what i mean. I had the tc95 16x19 and thought it was great. I dont find the p93 more difficult to use than that. In fact for my game it is actually a little easier for some things.
 
Last edited:
Honestly, it really sucked for me when I began noticing it, but I couldn’t get to the drop shots and such that I would have dug out around 45, or so. I’m still one of the faster player, and my daughter is one of the fastest player in her team, but currently at 49, I just don’t feel that I have the leg strength or stability that I used to have. Also, I’ve been cramping a lot, which is also horrible. I can still hang with young players in their 20’s and 30’s who’s played competitive tennis but only for a set or two, and I am out with cramps... because I am not in shape to keep going hard against more fit players.
Ah father time is merciless :). I am getting up there myself and I'd be damned if I could beat any of kids in way shape or form in sprints or running, period.
 
For the record, you are now the one taking it personally. Lol. Just let it go if its not a big deal to you.

On the second part i agree that we are talking about 2 different things. People who are asking if you can compete at a high level with this racquet want to compete at a high level. So if that is the case i do believe it can be done, but my opinion is that its not about the racquet anymore once you get to that point.

I also think there are advantages to playing with a mid. In this case, basically a 95 size frame. It is very maneuverable. Much more so than a apd. So
It allows me to generate the same amount of tip without wearing down. It allows more touch on the ball for me. All of these things matter at all levels. If someone can do all those things with a stiffer thicker frame and is happy with it than there is no need to try this racquet. I believe this racquet was made for people who want the old school characteristics without feeling handicapped out there on the court. Based on your signature I would imagine you know what i mean. I had the tc95 and thought it was great. I dont find the p93 more difficult to use than that. In fact for my game it is actually a little easier for some things.
For the record, when I said I didn't want to pursue any further in my last post, I already let it go but now I truly think it is you who is stuck, lol. Time for you to move on too.

Look, people who compete at a high level and are at already at a decent enough fitness level will find something that helps them win while they enjoy the game without having them go do extra conditioning to help them get that 'edge'. That is a realistic way of looking at things. They aren't going to put their head down Rocky Balboa style and spend hours on conditioning to improve their tennis. You have a fit guy playing decent level tennis, he wants to win. He will go the easier route. That is just the reality as I mentioned. Can you improve on fitness/conditioning and then blast away everyone? Off course. But if you are telling me tweeners don't help you cheat and win matches vis-a-vis mid size players racquets at high levels, I don't agree at all. They do, you get away with bad form and its all about winning points and ultimately matches.

Yes, I dabble with a lot of racquets but I am a good 4.0 myself and can hold my own with 4.5s. Mid racquets are great, go through the air fast etc. Touch, feel etc. Yes. But you do lose out on real estate and that is what matters significantly when you are hitting topspin, heavy balls over and over again and need forgiveness (ala baseline grinding). I visit multiple college here in the DMV area and had college players try my mid size racquets. I have a Diablo as well I don't know if you rememeber I mentioned it earlier here in the thread and I compared that with 93P too. Anyway, the college kids wont touch mids because sadly they just don't give that edge. I agree on old school feel and this racquet attracting that demographic, wont find an argument from me there. I am currently playing with DR98 these days but still have my signature racquets with me. And hey if you can rock the 93P like you say, more power to ya!
 
Not a reply about the 14x18, because I think it should have a seperate thread but that aside.

I've always used lead on my sticks and the 93p is one of the sticks that doesn't need it. But since I added a synthetic grip and a whatever ammount of lead at 3/9 (probably like 5/6 grams). It has been the perfect stick.
Amazing plow through with more than enough spin, power, stability, and phenomenal control.
 
Honestly, it really sucked for me when I began noticing it, but I couldn’t get to the drop shots and such that I would have dug out around 45, or so. I’m still one of the faster player, and my daughter is one of the fastest player in her team, but currently at 49, I just don’t feel that I have the leg strength or stability that I used to have. Also, I’ve been cramping a lot, which is also horrible. I can still hang with young players in their 20’s and 30’s who’s played competitive tennis but only for a set or two, and I am out with cramps... because I am not in shape to keep going hard against more fit players.

What can be done at my age to get, even get a step back? Not even asking for two steps.
I’m 44 and a former D1 college player experiencing the same loss of speed you are. Last year I ended up purchasing a couple of Babolat pure aero plus frames which allowed me to get a little reach back. I can still easily keep up with 5.0/6.0 guys in their 20s and 30s and that racquet gave me explosive power but after about 16 months it blew out my elbow.

I’ve learned that you can’t really get speed back but you can work on mobility by doing court movement drills and jumping rope. This keeps your joints moving and your muscle memory fresh. Father Time will take your legs and strength as you get older but you can still control your shots with proper footwork and stroke mechanics. I recommend you try a 100 sq in or larger frame. That will give you the forgiveness you need from the frame if you don’t strike the ball cleanly or on time. I’ve moved into a POG oversized and I love it. Reminds me of playing HS tennis back in the late 80s/90s.
 
For the record, when I said I didn't want to pursue any further in my last post, I already let it go but now I truly think it is you who is stuck, lol. Time for you to move on too.

Look, people who compete at a high level and are at already at a decent enough fitness level will find something that helps them win while they enjoy the game without having them go do extra conditioning to help them get that 'edge'. That is a realistic way of looking at things. They aren't going to put their head down Rocky Balboa style and spend hours on conditioning to improve their tennis. You have a fit guy playing decent level tennis, he wants to win. He will go the easier route. That is just the reality as I mentioned. Can you improve on fitness/conditioning and then blast away everyone? Off course. But if you are telling me tweeners don't help you cheat and win matches vis-a-vis mid size players racquets at high levels, I don't agree at all. They do, you get away with bad form and its all about winning points and ultimately matches.

Yes, I dabble with a lot of racquets but I am a good 4.0 myself and can hold my own with 4.5s. Mid racquets are great, go through the air fast etc. Touch, feel etc. Yes. But you do lose out on real estate and that is what matters significantly when you are hitting topspin, heavy balls over and over again and need forgiveness (ala baseline grinding). I visit multiple college here in the DMV area and had college players try my mid size racquets. I have a Diablo as well I don't know if you rememeber I mentioned it earlier here in the thread and I compared that with 93P too. Anyway, the college kids wont touch mids because sadly they just don't give that edge. I agree on old school feel and this racquet attracting that demographic, wont find an argument from me there. I am currently playing with DR98 these days but still have my signature racquets with me. And hey if you can rock the 93P like you say, more power to ya!
Yes, you lose so much real estate with the 93p. It's crazy how much smaller the head is on this racquet than a 100sq racket. I wish they would have made the head rounder and taken more size out of the throat.
 
Yes, you lose so much real estate with the 93p. It's crazy how much smaller the head is on this racquet than a 100sq racket. I wish they would have made the head rounder and taken more size out of the throat.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic here but if you think 93P and a 100 sq inch tweener play the same and have the same amount of power and forgiveness I don't know what to tell you. The 93P does play bigger and more like a 95 sq inch. And I said that earlier here on thread multiple times actually.
 
I suspect college kids won’t change because they grew up on Tweeners and are scared to make a radical change that could initially set them back until they learned the nuances of the rig.

Most hobbyists have no competitive agenda to keeps us glued to our junior frames.
And many of us are pining for our youth (yes, me) when we dominated (I never dominated) with 85 and 90 sq. In. Racquets.

The 93P is an aspirational racquet to me. It took most of last year to build up the confidence in my game to deserve that racquet. Now I’m wavering again. My Tour 95 strung with VS/4G is feeling really good again all of a sudden. I may be switching back for awhile until I get my game under control. That little extra boost of free power is all I need to make everything that bugs me about the 93P disappear. The trade off is worse feel, but more consistency.

Remember, as awesome as it is, no pro uses a Phantom. Pouille uses a TT Tour 100P, Isner uses a Beast - that’s a tweener for sure, right? And Rafa uses a Pure Aero, the ultimate granny stick.

I feel like the 93P is for people who really WANT to play with it, or just still play with a mid. With feel. There are plenty of other easier choices out there. But I’ve read more than once on this forum, “I have more fun losing with a Phantom than winning with a Babolat.”

PS, not trying to take a swipe at anyone. This is as much directed at myself as anyone else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ok that brings up another point: did you ever suffer from cramps at a younger age? I have never had a cramp while playing, and not sure if that's something else I get to look forward to with age or not.

Do you do any cross training? I am by no means qualified to talk about fitness from a certified point of view. My own experience, what helps me, is riding a Peloton bike and going to the gym semi-regularly and doing a good leg day.
As a kid, I'd only cramp up if I had over exerted myself, usually after learning something new. I think my decline came faster after I had a lower back surgery. I used to be into martial arts training, but ever since the injury, I pretty much stopped participating in any combat sports. Having done the martial arts training was great because I'm lazy by nature and needed a coach to put me in my place.
Biking sounds awesome, though.
 
For the record, when I said I didn't want to pursue any further in my last post, I already let it go but now I truly think it is you who is stuck, lol. Time for you to move on too.

Look, people who compete at a high level and are at already at a decent enough fitness level will find something that helps them win while they enjoy the game without having them go do extra conditioning to help them get that 'edge'. That is a realistic way of looking at things. They aren't going to put their head down Rocky Balboa style and spend hours on conditioning to improve their tennis. You have a fit guy playing decent level tennis, he wants to win. He will go the easier route. That is just the reality as I mentioned. Can you improve on fitness/conditioning and then blast away everyone? Off course. But if you are telling me tweeners don't help you cheat and win matches vis-a-vis mid size players racquets at high levels, I don't agree at all. They do, you get away with bad form and its all about winning points and ultimately matches.

Yes, I dabble with a lot of racquets but I am a good 4.0 myself and can hold my own with 4.5s. Mid racquets are great, go through the air fast etc. Touch, feel etc. Yes. But you do lose out on real estate and that is what matters significantly when you are hitting topspin, heavy balls over and over again and need forgiveness (ala baseline grinding). I visit multiple college here in the DMV area and had college players try my mid size racquets. I have a Diablo as well I don't know if you rememeber I mentioned it earlier here in the thread and I compared that with 93P too. Anyway, the college kids wont touch mids because sadly they just don't give that edge. I agree on old school feel and this racquet attracting that demographic, wont find an argument from me there. I am currently playing with DR98 these days but still have my signature racquets with me.
College kids grew up with tweeners. Thats what they are used to. There is no reason that they should switch to a mid. I don’t really consider that part of the discussion we are having here though, but I can touch on that in a second.

Do tweeners help you cheat? At 4.0 - sure they can. I played 4.0 after an injury and used a Head extreme and then a PA+. I simply hit deep and heavy top over and over and wore guys down because they didn’t have the skillset to attack it. It was incredibly boring and soul sucking and it made me hate tennis. Luckily I got in with a group of guys who were better than that and started playing more dynamic matches. I had to setup up my patterns and game because what I was doing before was not cutting it. The frame I was playing with quite often was the rather underrated Yonex xi98. Amazing frame, but it needed a lot of lead, and customizing a frame was an endless task that I did not really enjoy. So I went back to the PA+ and it’s great, but I started missing all the shots I hit with the Yonex. Squash shots, heavy slice, more precise serves,...etc.

I got this frame simply because I was intrigued and grew up playing with a very similar racquet. I did not expect to be using it as my main frame a year later. The beauty of it is that you can play however you want with it. It’s not as demanding as a true mid. I know this because I bought a Yonex 89 to mess with, and the P93 just comes through the air so much faster and plays as big. I also had prestige mids for a while. To me those were so fun to play with, but more of a disadvantage on the court and more importantly a pain to string.

I have a baseline grinder most of my life. I hit with a lot of topspin. I did not expect the P93 to accommodate this style of play but it does for me. On paper, I should prefer frames with open patterns and large heads, but I actually find that my favorite ones are tighter patterns and smaller heads. Why? I don’t know, but I keep going back to them. There is no hard and fast rule for choosing a frame, but again, the biggest improvements I made when playing at higher levels were my personal fitness. If we are focused on talking about college players, I used to hit with a D1 female who was in such great shape. She did not hit harder or with more spin than me, but she moved so well and never tired out. It was like hitting against a very talented wall. To me, that is what gets you up a ranking in tennis more than anything else.
 
I suspect college kids won’t change because they grew up on Tweeners and are scared to make a radical change that could initially set them back until they learned the nuances of the rig.

Most hobbyists have no competitive agenda to keeps us glued to our junior frames.
Yep good point about rec players. But college kids different than the pros from my what I've seen, they will switch if they feel something is better and aren't held back by superstition or simply habit. Offcourse no way to know for sure. I do know that the number one kid in the team I visited recently switched to the new pure strike this year and used a Graphene Radical before that. Could never understand why but he felt more comfortable. In his senior year too.
 
I played with a pro staff 85 for a year and some change just because I thought smaller headsize would force me to improve my game/fitness more, but once I switched to a 97 I started enjoying the game more and beating players I'd normally struggle with. I dont think smaller headsize is all it's cracked up to be honestly. If someone does not like small head size that does not mean they stay on the baseline all day. Plenty of S&V players use 95-100 sq inch rackets. Use what works for you

I had to get over my ego of thinking smaller headsize made me a better player when in reality it didn't.
 
Not sure if you are being sarcastic here but if you think 93P and a 100 sq inch tweener play the same and have the same amount of power and forgiveness I don't know what to tell you. The 93P does play bigger and more like a 95 sq inch. And I said that earlier here on thread multiple times actually.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic here but if you think 93P and a 100 sq inch tweener play the same and have the same amount of power and forgiveness I don't know what to tell you. The 93P does play bigger and more like a 95 sq inch. And I said that earlier here on thread multiple times actually.
Of course I'm being sarcastic.

I was responding to your assertion that you lose real estate. I was not commenting on power or forgiveness. If you think you need more power or forgiveness I dont know what to tell you.
 
College kids grew up with tweeners. Thats what they are used to. There is no reason that they should switch to a mid. I don’t really consider that part of the discussion we are having here though, but I can touch on that in a second.

Do tweeners help you cheat? At 4.0 - sure they can. I played 4.0 after an injury and used a Head extreme and then a PA+. I simply hit deep and heavy top over and over and wore guys down because they didn’t have the skillset to attack it. It was incredibly boring and soul sucking and it made me hate tennis. Luckily I got in with a group of guys who were better than that and started playing more dynamic matches. I had to setup up my patterns and game because what I was doing before was not cutting it. The frame I was playing with quite often was the rather underrated Yonex xi98. Amazing frame, but it needed a lot of lead, and customizing a frame was an endless task that I did not really enjoy. So I went back to the PA+ and it’s great, but I started missing all the shots I hit with the Yonex. Squash shots, heavy slice, more precise serves,...etc.

I got this frame simply because I was intrigued and grew up playing with a very similar racquet. I did not expect to be using it as my main frame a year later. The beauty of it is that you can play however you want with it. It’s not as demanding as a true mid. I know this because I bought a Yonex 89 to mess with, and the P93 just comes through the air so much faster and plays as big. I also had prestige mids for a while. To me those were so fun to play with, but more of a disadvantage on the court and more importantly a pain to string.

I have a baseline grinder most of my life. I hit with a lot of topspin. I did not expect the P93 to accommodate this style of play but it does for me. On paper, I should prefer frames with open patterns and large heads, but I actually find that my favorite ones are tighter patterns and smaller heads. Why? I don’t know, but I keep going back to them. There is no hard and fast rule for choosing a frame, but again, the biggest improvements I made when playing at higher levels were my personal fitness. If we are focused on talking about college players, I used to hit with a D1 female who was in such great shape. She did not hit harder or with more spin than me, but she moved so well and never tired out. It was like hitting against a very talented wall. To me, that is what gets you up a ranking in tennis more than anything else.
Tweeners are not the reason for players staying on the baseline, you can thank poly strings, slowing down of courts, rise of nadal/djok/murray, 2 handed backhands, etc...but a baseliner player doesn't suddenly become an all-court player when they switch to a mid
 
Tweeners are not the reason for players staying on the baseline, you can thank poly strings, slowing down of courts, rise of nadal/djok/murray, 2 handed backhands, etc...but a baseliner player doesn't suddenly become an all-court player when they switch to a mid
Ofcourse not, but a mid is better at an allcourt game then a tweener is. Baselining is fine with a 300gram racket, and fine with a 340 gram racket. But if you want to hit a penetrating volley and take balls on the rise, more weight and flex is gonna help.

Nowadays tweeners are very popular because of the stiffness, easy power, while still being light. It's also a reason why volleying has becoming less popular because it's harder with a tweener then a heavy stick.

(recreational and pro level)
 
College kids grew up with tweeners. Thats what they are used to. There is no reason that they should switch to a mid. I don’t really consider that part of the discussion we are having here though, but I can touch on that in a second.

Do tweeners help you cheat? At 4.0 - sure they can. I played 4.0 after an injury and used a Head extreme and then a PA+. I simply hit deep and heavy top over and over and wore guys down because they didn’t have the skillset to attack it. It was incredibly boring and soul sucking and it made me hate tennis. Luckily I got in with a group of guys who were better than that and started playing more dynamic matches. I had to setup up my patterns and game because what I was doing before was not cutting it. The frame I was playing with quite often was the rather underrated Yonex xi98. Amazing frame, but it needed a lot of lead, and customizing a frame was an endless task that I did not really enjoy. So I went back to the PA+ and it’s great, but I started missing all the shots I hit with the Yonex. Squash shots, heavy slice, more precise serves,...etc.

I got this frame simply because I was intrigued and grew up playing with a very similar racquet. I did not expect to be using it as my main frame a year later. The beauty of it is that you can play however you want with it. It’s not as demanding as a true mid. I know this because I bought a Yonex 89 to mess with, and the P93 just comes through the air so much faster and plays as big. I also had prestige mids for a while. To me those were so fun to play with, but more of a disadvantage on the court and more importantly a pain to string.

I have a baseline grinder most of my life. I hit with a lot of topspin. I did not expect the P93 to accommodate this style of play but it does for me. On paper, I should prefer frames with open patterns and large heads, but I actually find that my favorite ones are tighter patterns and smaller heads. Why? I don’t know, but I keep going back to them. There is no hard and fast rule for choosing a frame, but again, the biggest improvements I made when playing at higher levels were my personal fitness. If we are focused on talking about college players, I used to hit with a D1 female who was in such great shape. She did not hit harder or with more spin than me, but she moved so well and never tired out. It was like hitting against a very talented wall. To me, that is what gets you up a ranking in tennis more than anything else.
College kids have no reason to be superstitious. I just gave the example above of my local team's #1 guy switching in his senior year because he felt PS was better. So there is that point. But funny part is 93P doesn't come off as old school small mid. Looks bigger. I didn't tell anyone it was a mid either and still no one felt really comfortable. It is for a niche market like we agreed upon earlier. I also think that in the end if it doesn't work, you cant force it on anyone.

I already mentioned that 93P is very dynamic and a great all court racket. If you play that game, it would be great. Which it seems you do now. But I just don't seem to be on the same page with you on higher level play requirement when it comes to baseline play. A 5.5 level player (think college tennis) is not unfit. He/she can move. And while it isnt all racquet for sure, it does give an edge.

I agree with you on Prestige mids and mids in general. I have mentioned several times that 93P plays bigger than it's 93 sq inch. I also think they are absolutely harder to play than 93P. We agreed on that in the past as well.

I never said fitness was not important. It is indeed very important. And I agree with you that fitness is key after you hit a certain threshold. That has never been the point of contention.
 
College kids have no reason to be superstitious. I just gave the example above of my local team's #1 guy switching in his senior year because he felt PS was better. So there is that point. But funny part is 93P doesn't come off as old school small mid. Looks bigger. I didn't tell anyone it was a mid either and still no one felt really comfortable. It is for a niche market like we agreed upon earlier. I also think that in the end if it doesn't work, you cant force it on anyone.

I already mentioned that 93P is very dynamic and a great all court racket. If you play that game, it would be great. Which it seems you do now. But I just don't seem to be on the same page with you on higher level play requirement when it comes to baseline play. A 5.5 level player (think college tennis) is not unfit. He/she can move. And while it isnt all racquet for sure, it does give an edge.

I agree with you on Prestige mids and mids in general. I have mentioned several times that 93P plays bigger than it's 93 sq inch. I also think they are absolutely harder to play than 93P. We agreed on that in the past as well.

I never said fitness was not important. It is indeed very important. And I agree with you that fitness is key after you hit a certain threshold. That has never been the point of contention.
Yeah true - We are not on the same page with that one issue because we are not 5.5 level college players. For me - I personally dont care what they use or need. The biggest thing I notice here is that people are concerned with what pros or college players use, and I am not sure why when that is not an attainable level. Reality is that we play tennis for fun - all of us here. So you should choose the frame that you enjoy and feel opens up your game the most. There is no right answer, and it will change a lot, especially if you visit this forum often and are constantly reading about new frames to try (as we all know too well).

I see young top rated juniors down here playing with stock babolat lites and swinging super hard every time because thats how they like to play. Can we do that at 30+? I personally would not want to. If the P93 was really demanding for me to use, I would have tapped out. It’s way too hot and humid down here for all that! Lol.
 
Yeah true - We are not on the same page with that one issue because we are not 5.5 level college players. For me - I personally dont care what they use or need. The biggest thing I notice here is that people are concerned with what pros or college players use, and I am not sure why when that is not an attainable level. Reality is that we play tennis for fun - all of us here. So you should choose the frame that you enjoy and feel opens up your game the most. There is no right answer, and it will change a lot, especially if you visit this forum often and are constantly reading about new frames to try (as we all know too well).

I see young top rated juniors down here playing with stock babolat lites and swinging super hard every time because thats how they like to play. Can we do that at 30+? I personally would not want to. If the P93 was really demanding for me to use, I would have tapped out. It’s way too hot and humid down here for all that! Lol.
All things aside, I'm actually heading to Orlando next month. Let me know if you're up for a hit. I think I read somewhere that you reside there. Let me know, we can go for a hit and beer afterwards.
 
All things aside, I'm actually heading to Orlando next month. Let me know if you're up for a hit. I think I read somewhere that you reside there. Let me know, we can go for a hit and beer afterwards.
I’m in Miami now, but I am down to hit whenever, for sure. If you go to Orlando, I would try and hit with Mikeler if you can get him on a free night. Also matters where you are staying, Orlando is painfully spread out, so if you are on one side of town (like disney, convention center side) it can be tough to hit with a guy who lives in the city or north. I’d post in the Orlando thread to see if you can get a taker.
 
I’m in Miami now, but I am down to hit whenever, for sure. If you go to Orlando, I would try and hit with Mikeler if you can get him on a free night. Also matters where you are staying, Orlando is painfully spread out, so if you are on one side of town (like disney, convention center side) it can be tough to hit with a guy who lives in the city or north. I’d post in the Orlando thread to see if you can get a taker.
Staying in a hotel on Atlantic Ave? Never been there so I don't know which side that would be. Hotel doesn't have a tennis court so yeah, could use help for sure from the locals if you know any. Thanks
 
I’m in Miami now, but I am down to hit whenever, for sure. If you go to Orlando, I would try and hit with Mikeler if you can get him on a free night. Also matters where you are staying, Orlando is painfully spread out, so if you are on one side of town (like disney, convention center side) it can be tough to hit with a guy who lives in the city or north. I’d post in the Orlando thread to see if you can get a taker.
I was in south beach last month for a week.. damn.
 
Staying in a hotel on Atlantic Ave? Never been there so I don't know which side that would be. Hotel doesn't have a tennis court so yeah, could use help for sure from the locals if you know any. Thanks

I think you are near the USTA training center, which is amazing. They have a playsight court there. It’s very cool. I’d post here and try meet up at the center. If Dgoran is free, he’s super cool to hit with :

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-florida-chapter-greater-orlando-area.268401/
 
Yeah we could have hit at flamingo. I got to play with Navigator there and I have played with some local TT’rs there as well. Pretty cool park to play tennis at.
My hotel was walking distance from flamingo. Might need to make another trip. Probably going to visit a friend who lives in Delray in the next couple of months. Not too far for a day in miami.
 
Based on the excellent reviews, very tempted to get one, but am using the prestige mid at the moment, so not too sure if there will be a difference. Has anybody played with the IG Prestige Mid (or any version of the prestige mid) and the 93p and make a very brief comparison? Thanks! :)
 
Based on the excellent reviews, very tempted to get one, but am using the prestige mid at the moment, so not too sure if there will be a difference. Has anybody played with the IG Prestige Mid (or any version of the prestige mid) and the 93p and make a very brief comparison? Thanks! :)

if you like the IG prestige mid then give this a look too. rock solid stable, headsize slightly bigger on the PP93P, bigger sweetspot on the prince. I actually really like the stock spec on the phantom whereas always played with a tweaked prestige mid. No CAP grommets, but hey not everything is perfect haha.
 
Top