The Prince Phantom 93P is a gift to us from TW - My Review/AMA

atelic

Rookie
Was able to try out RS Lyon and Black Widow last night. Both strung single piece at 42 lbs. 1.20.

Played 4 hours and change, switched between both every hour.

Felt RS Lyon was soft and actually produced good/easy power.

Black widow - really started to feel this in the wrist. Definitely would not recommend to anyone with any kind of TE or wrist pain. I'm undecided on breaking it in more, or just cutting it out and being done with it.

Played for last couple minutes with one stick that has hyper g in it, has maybe 10 hours of playtime, 48lbs. Felt so right. Not sure why I cheat on solinco.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Decided to stick with my RF97. The 93P changes me into a basher. I rip ever ball because i have time with the thinner beam and the smaller head. Truly amazing stick tho. My game style is almost identical to Fed's, everything on the rise, and the mass and design of the RF97 is perfect for that. The RF97 also helps me out more on the defensive because of the easy power, larger head and thicker beam. I considered keeping both but the back and forth is making me crazy.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Decided to stick with my RF97. The 93P changes me into a basher. I rip ever ball because i have time with the thinner beam and the smaller head. Truly amazing stick tho. My game style is almost identical to Fed's, everything on the rise, and the mass and design of the RF97 is perfect for that. The RF97 also helps me out more on the defensive because of the easy power, larger head and thicker beam. I considered keeping both but the back and forth is making me crazy.
If my game resembled Federer’s I’d stick with the RF97 too. Sadly my game is best described as an inaccurate hybrid version of Arancha Sanchez and Conchita Martinez. :p
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
If my game resembled Federer’s I’d stick with the RF97 too. Sadly my game is best described as an inaccurate hybrid version of Arancha Sanchez and Conchita Martinez. :p
hahahahahahaha that is hilarious. With the 93P I feel like my games wanders into Thiem territory where i have to rip everything with high rpms or smash flat bombs. The need for such a blistering pace had me feeling it in my arm and shoulder.
 
Received my 18x20 version 2 hours before a club match the other day, had to play with it and see what it was like, so strung it up with a 16 string as that was all I had. Loved the accuracy and being rewarded when I hit with good technique, it was a real killer at the net as felt impossible to hit out. Won the match too which felt good! Not sure I will main it yet but it won’t leave my bag to be sold that’s for sure, a great option to have when I’m having a bad day!

I am still waiting for the RS Lyon 17 to be delivered but my question is what difference does it make? I’m very much a novice when it comes to string girth!
 

Anton

Legend
hahahahahahaha that is hilarious. With the 93P I feel like my games wanders into Thiem territory where i have to rip everything with high rpms or smash flat bombs. The need for such a blistering pace had me feeling it in my arm and shoulder.
Why not add weight? That will smooth you out.
 

Doaner

New User
I cracked and ordered an 18x20, @Power Player and his thread made me relapse into racquetholism again. Fingers crossed its the improvement on the 2013 tec315ltd I've been looking for.
thats exactly what happened to me. I thought I was done then started on this thread. the 93p is excellent for my game and I can't get enough of it. It just makes me want to hit more and more and see the crazy angles I can get. please tell us how you like it after a couple hours and sets with it.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Why not add weight? That will smooth you out.
The beam width and stiffness of the RF 97 just absorbs everything at impact and as a result once i get it moving i get a bigger ball with less effort and it feels softer on my arm. It's like a tank (RF97) vs a VW Beetle (93P). Blocked shots with the RF are winners deep in the court.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
The beam width and stiffness of the RF 97 just absorbs everything at impact and as a result once i get it moving i get a bigger ball with less effort and it feels softer on my arm. It's like a tank (RF97) vs a VW Beetle (93P). Blocked shots with the RF are winners deep in the court.
I suspect the beam width and stiffness don't absorb as much and hence you get more energy returned to the ball. You could get closer to an RF with some lead at 10 and 2 in the 93P since the RF also has a SW and static weight advantage over the 93P. But you'll never get that stiffness up which for many of us is a great thing. The RF was a bit hard on my shoulder with that weight and lack of flex.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
I suspect the beam width and stiffness don't absorb as much and hence you get more energy returned to the ball. You could get closer to an RF with some lead at 10 and 2 in the 93P since the RF also has a SW and static weight advantage over the 93P. But you'll never get that stiffness up which for many of us is a great thing. The RF was a bit hard on my shoulder with that weight and lack of flex.
By absorb, i mean the RF97 is so hefty that there is absolutely no vibration or flutter from impact with the ball. Stiff frames at very low tensions with a thin gauge feel better on my arm than flexible frames.
 
By absorb, i mean the RF97 is so hefty that there is absolutely no vibration or flutter from impact with the ball. Stiff frames at very low tensions with a thin gauge feel better on my arm than flexible frames.
Different strokes I guess. Literally AND figuratively. You can change the weight and balance of almost any racket to get closer to another racket, but stiffness and feel you can’t really mess with.

I demo’d the RF97 last year, and it was too muted for me. Like swinging a wet newspaper wearing an oven mitt. I personally like the feedback of the 93P, but I can see how it would not be for everybody.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
By absorb, i mean the RF97 is so hefty that there is absolutely no vibration or flutter from impact with the ball. Stiff frames at very low tensions with a thin gauge feel better on my arm than flexible frames.
Agree the RF is very stable. Much like my old SW Blade 104. Both are the best RoS rackets I'd used for facing hard servers. But with low tensions in a stiff frame I tend to launch the ball. I'm better with low tension and thin gauges in a flexible frame so I get the depth I prefer on full swings. The 93p is the third most stable racket I've used and my arm feels better with it. We all have somewhat different needs based on biomechanics and level of competition.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Agree the RF is very stable. Much like my old SW Blade 104. Both are the best RoS rackets I'd used for facing hard servers. But with low tensions in a stiff frame I tend to launch the ball. I'm better with low tension and thin gauges in a flexible frame so I get the depth I prefer on full swings. The 93p is the third most stable racket I've used and my arm feels better with it. We all have somewhat different needs based on biomechanics and level of competition.
So true. I hit with really high rpm's and never launch, and i string 19G cyclone @ 40lbs.
 
Agree the RF is very stable. Much like my old SW Blade 104. Both are the best RoS rackets I'd used for facing hard servers.
My ROS is my weakest part of my game, so maybe I should give the RF97 another chance.

I should say, When I demo’d the RF97, I was still using a Warrior, wasn’t used to 12 1/2 ounce racquets, so I may have a different opinion now.

I’ve played with so many racquets over the last year, that I think I can adapt to whatever I have in my hand. The Phantoms just feel best to me right now.


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Dartagnan64

Legend
My ROS is my weakest part of my game, so maybe I should give the RF97 another chance.

I should say, When I demo’d the RF97, I was still using a Warrior, wasn’t used to 12 1/2 ounce racquets, so I may have a different opinion now.

I’ve played with so many racquets over the last year, that I think I can adapt to whatever I have in my hand. The Phantoms just feel best to me right now.


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Phantom feels way better than the RF97 for sure. But man can the RF block hard serves back. I just couldn't serve more than one set with it before my arm felt it would fall off.
 

Anton

Legend
The beam width and stiffness of the RF 97 just absorbs everything at impact and as a result once i get it moving i get a bigger ball with less effort and it feels softer on my arm. It's like a tank (RF97) vs a VW Beetle (93P). Blocked shots with the RF are winners deep in the court.
My leaded up 350SW 93P feels no less tanky than stock RF97, and it is certainly more comfortable.

It's true that 93P needs more help from the weight. But you should at least try it apples-to-apples with RF97.

93P comes 11 grams lighter than RF97 at same balance.
 
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PSC85

Semi-Pro
Is 93P close to feeling like it’s foam filled? I am under the impression the old 4 stripe POG mid was
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
By absorb, i mean the RF97 is so hefty that there is absolutely no vibration or flutter from impact with the ball. Stiff frames at very low tensions with a thin gauge feel better on my arm than flexible frames.
Hey whatever works for you. Seems like an impulsive decison but you should just keep the p93 and mess with it. Never hurts to have it in the bag. The rf97 is a great frame. I really liked the older blx 6.1 95 a lot, such a cool racquet. They just have a concrete response that doesn’t always work for my style of play.

Considering your initial reaction to the p93. Id keep it around. Great frame to have.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
By absorb, i mean the RF97 is so hefty that there is absolutely no vibration or flutter from impact with the ball. Stiff frames at very low tensions with a thin gauge feel better on my arm than flexible frames.
Funny you should say that. My coach went to rf97's and said his wrist problems went away almost straight away. Stiff frames destroyed my elbow though, so horses for courses
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Hey whatever works for you. Seems like an impulsive decison but you should just keep the p93 and mess with it. Never hurts to have it in the bag. The rf97 is a great frame. I really liked the older blx 6.1 95 a lot, such a cool racquet. They just have a concrete response that doesn’t always work for my style of play.

Considering your initial reaction to the p93. Id keep it around. Great frame to have.
I'm a really bad racquetholic, and i've repeated this routine far far too many times at the detriment of my game. LOL. My switch is not at all a knock on the 93P, but at this point i'm trying to keep improving and swapping from one frame to the other is a really bad idea. If it was all just for kicks, you are sooooo right.

The frames are different enough that If I kept both it would mess up my game.

Last week I hit with a former University of Tennessee player and both frames did equally well. Each had their strengths and both are very well rounded sticks. Two of the best currently on the market.

The 93P was faster, the RF97 more comfortable, both had plow and stability, the RF97 was better hitting offensive shots from defensive positions...........better at bailing me out and quickly turning defense into offense.

I do have more fun playing with the 93P but I have to hit more balls to win the point........................it's definitely a difficult decision...............I go back and forth constantly.
 
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Anton

Legend
So I hit the 14x18 today during 3 hour match play against three opponents.

I didn’t even bother trying to play it stock and so far have 2g on V-throat and 4g on 3+9, with stock leather and overgrip (but took off the black rubber piece on top of handle)

It started out kinda harsh with TW’s one piece string job and I felt I was missing some pocketing - was getting the lift but spin was subpar.

By the third hour strings seem to have settled some and the main was more willing. Still, I think I’ll swap in a synthetic grip for more comfort.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
So I hit the 14x18 today during 3 hour match play against three opponents.

I didn’t even bother trying to play it stock and so far have 2g on V-throat and 4g on 3+9, with stock leather and overgrip (but took off the black rubber piece on top of handle)

It started out kinda harsh with TW’s one piece string job and I felt I was missing some pocketing - was getting the lift but spin was subpar.

By the third hour strings seem to have settled some and the main was more willing. Still, I think I’ll swap in a synthetic grip for more comfort.
TW probably has ATP tournament quality stringers and stringing machines. Their string jobs are always on the tighter side compared to a local pro shop or a lot tighter than any manual stringing machine. I think TW's low end tension range is a manual stringers upper end range.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
TW probably has ATP tournament quality stringers and stringing machines. Their string jobs are always on the tighter side compared to a local pro shop or a lot tighter than any manual stringing machine. I think TW's low end tension range is a manual stringers upper end range.
TW uses Prince Neos 1000 lock out machines. String jobs done on lock outs have a lower SBS than string jobs done on high end electronic constant pull machines.
 

Anton

Legend
It wasn’t that it was too tight overall, but I think crosses came out too tight, which was restricting main movement some.

That sorta makes sense since less mains means less frictional resistance on cross pulls.

Pulling across 18 mains vs 14 mains could mean about 4-5lbs cross tension difference, especially with shaped poly like Cyclone, especially on lock-out machine.
 
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kenyee

Semi-Pro
I think you'd have to do demos of both 93Ps strung by them at the same time to get a decent delta...they string the demos around 50 when the 93P likes 40ish lbs. I know my current 93P doesn't feel like the demo one much...
 
I think you'd have to do demos of both 93Ps strung by them at the same time to get a decent delta...they string the demos around 50 when the 93P likes 40ish lbs. I know my current 93P doesn't feel like the demo one much...
What happens if you just re-sting the demo yourself? Is that against their rules? Do you get penalized?


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Kal-El 34

Hall of Fame
Prince vortex 17g and prince premier power is a pretty smooth feeling hybrid in the 93P 18x20 just FYI if looking for something to try...

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tomato123

Semi-Pro
I restrung one - didn't even occur to me to ask. Didn't have a problem.

Edit: TW also extended my demo by an additional 5 days when I e-mailed asking for more time, as an FYI.
I also believe you can ask if the racquet you demoed qualifies for the $25 credit that you paid for the demo. Basically equals to $25 off the new racquet if you like it and decide to buy it after demoing.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
I played the Phantom 93P this morning as sub in a 4.5 women’s clinic (yes, I’m a strong 3.5 guy, but I’m on their mailing list for various reasons...). Great frame and it’s still amazing how easy it is to pick up and play despite having such “difficult” specs. The drop in spin and power vs my various 98” sticks is most noticeable on my serve. Maybe I need the 14x18 (oh no ...)
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
I played the Phantom 93P this morning as sub in a 4.5 women’s clinic (yes, I’m a strong 3.5 guy, but I’m on their mailing list for various reasons...). Great frame and it’s still amazing how easy it is to pick up and play despite having such “difficult” specs. The drop in spin and power vs my various 98” sticks is most noticeable on my serve. Maybe I need the 14x18 (oh no ...)
Or just a change in string set up. 18g at 44lbs of you favorite poly might boost that power and spin. Or going to gut poly hybrid.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
My 18x20 93p arrived today.

Beautiful frame, the 4 3/8 grip is indeed very large compared to the g3 tk82 on my tec315ltd. Had it strung with hyper-g 17g @ 45lbs. Felt verrry stiff when tapping it, but didn't feel as stiff as it felt when playing, but still a bit much for me.
Very low launch angle. Awesome control. Slices are easy to hit and poisonous. Snatched some volleys i was really happy with quite comfortably.

As said, it is hard to defend, you need a healthy swing at everything, you can't just poke a racquet out there to block or flick a ball back.

I put some lead at 12 while getting a drink, maybe a gram or so, for a smidgen more plow, I will keep tinkering to finetune it to my tastes, as it was getting bossed around a bit by the big hitters I'm playing with. And it did feel better even with just that little bit.

Like the tt100p it is comfortable everywhere and with a generous sweetspot.

Didnt get a chance to try returning, had few serves 10 or 15, and it had great control, and i started to get some good kickers happening before we stopped.

I like this frame alot already and dislike nothing about it, it is precisely the kinda frame i like. I like being able to swing out and not have the ball long. Leather grip is soft and nice. I prefer the tecnifibre leather grip but the prince is fine, i use just leather no overgrip.

Going to try hyper g at 40lbs next time. Or klip mains redcode wax crosses, for my elbow issues.

I'm hoping my technique improves by being forced to take a full swing. My 2hbh improved instantly for that very reason. My hitting partner hated it. Must have felt like a limp lettuce leaf compared to his babolat.

Can't wait to get some more time in with it. I'm hoping the stringbed softens soon as it opens up, 45lbs was a little too well done IMO.
 

gvsbdisco

Semi-Pro
Some random thoughts as I continue my journey with the 93p 18x20. Coming back from mild TE/GE before I started with these frames. Still not 100% but steady improvement. Only playing once a week at the moment.

- had some hand issues (tissue on outside of hand between wrist and pinky finger). Swapped out the leather for a shockshield grip on one of my frames and that seems to have recitified that issue. Hope to put the leather back on later

- have used the following string setups:
-VS Team x RS Lyon 1.20 45lbs x 35lbs
-VS Team x Yonex PTP 1.20 45 x 35lbs
-VS Touch x Silverstring 1.20 45 x 35 lbs

I have always preferred touch to team and that holds true with the 93p as well. I don't notice a difference in spin between the two but the Touch just has a better feel for me. I always go back to Silverstring. I have tried a bunch of other smooth polys and I like silverstring the best. It has the best touch and feel and it is nice and plush (relatively speaking).

Gut seems to last forever in this frame.
 

hurworld

Hall of Fame
My 18x20 93p arrived today.

Beautiful frame, the 4 3/8 grip is indeed very large compared to the g3 tk82 on my tec315ltd. Had it strung with hyper-g 17g @ 45lbs. Felt verrry stiff when tapping it, but didn't feel as stiff as it felt when playing, but still a bit much for me.
Very low launch angle. Awesome control. Slices are easy to hit and poisonous. Snatched some volleys i was really happy with quite comfortably.

As said, it is hard to defend, you need a healthy swing at everything, you can't just poke a racquet out there to block or flick a ball back.

I put some lead at 12 while getting a drink, maybe a gram or so, for a smidgen more plow, I will keep tinkering to finetune it to my tastes, as it was getting bossed around a bit by the big hitters I'm playing with. And it did feel better even with just that little bit.

Like the tt100p it is comfortable everywhere and with a generous sweetspot.

Didnt get a chance to try returning, had few serves 10 or 15, and it had great control, and i started to get some good kickers happening before we stopped.

I like this frame alot already and dislike nothing about it, it is precisely the kinda frame i like. I like being able to swing out and not have the ball long. Leather grip is soft and nice. I prefer the tecnifibre leather grip but the prince is fine, i use just leather no overgrip.

Going to try hyper g at 40lbs next time. Or klip mains redcode wax crosses, for my elbow issues.

I'm hoping my technique improves by being forced to take a full swing. My 2hbh improved instantly for that very reason. My hitting partner hated it. Must have felt like a limp lettuce leaf compared to his babolat.

Can't wait to get some more time in with it. I'm hoping the stringbed softens soon as it opens up, 45lbs was a little too well done IMO.
Welcome to the club!

On launch angle, I find having larger tension differential between main and cross helps to increase launch angle a bit. When I got mine, it was strung with syn gut at 55lbs. Went with 45/40 next string job with full bed RS Lyon and the launch angle was better to my liking. 5lbs difference seems to do it for me for full bed poly.

Agreed with the 2HBH too. I hit a less top-spin inducing 2HBH compared to my FH and I can get better consistency using the 93P compared to the 16x19 tweeners.

Main thing I find with the 93P is to play with loose grip / relaxed arm and let the core body turn initiate the arm swing, and the baseline ground strokes work better that way. I'd be reminded of this whenever I do a mid-court finisher, either FH or overhead, and forgetting to engage with my hip/core turn first. Arming those fast-accelerating finishing shots are really uncomfortable to shoulder/arm, sometimes to the point of slight pain.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
Welcome to the club!

On launch angle, I find having larger tension differential between main and cross helps to increase launch angle a bit. When I got mine, it was strung with syn gut at 55lbs. Went with 45/40 next string job with full bed RS Lyon and the launch angle was better to my liking. 5lbs difference seems to do it for me for full bed poly.

Agreed with the 2HBH too. I hit a less top-spin inducing 2HBH compared to my FH and I can get better consistency using the 93P compared to the 16x19 tweeners.

Main thing I find with the 93P is to play with loose grip / relaxed arm and let the core body turn initiate the arm swing, and the baseline ground strokes work better that way. I'd be reminded of this whenever I do a mid-court finisher, either FH or overhead, and forgetting to engage with my hip/core turn first. Arming those fast-accelerating finishing shots are really uncomfortable to shoulder/arm, sometimes to the point of slight pain.
I don't mind a low launch angle, as i have PTSD from years of FH unforced errors, but you do have to hit through the ball for depth with it.

Another thing I remember, the 93p was great for getting to dinks/slices running forward. I dug out some ankle biting slices i had no right to, and it felt within reason. Slice approaches were awesome too.

I'll try the larger tension differential thing too, sounds promising. I have a suspicion that klip legend 18g mains and a soft round poly cross will be perfect in this frame, that's next to try
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't mind a low launch angle, as i have PTSD from years of FH unforced errors, but you do have to hit through the ball for depth with it.

Another thing I remember, the 93p was great for getting to dinks/slices running forward. I dug out some ankle biting slices i had no right to, and it felt within reason. Slice approaches were awesome too.

I'll try the larger tension differential thing too, sounds promising. I have a suspicion that klip legend 18g mains and a soft round poly cross will be perfect in this frame, that's next to try
Yeah the tension will drop after 1-2 sessions and i have a feeling that is when you will really start loving this frame. 45 is a great starting point just to figure out how low you want to go. I can play this frame in the high 30s with no issues.
 

tomato123

Semi-Pro
Yeah the tension will drop after 1-2 sessions and i have a feeling that is when you will really start loving this frame. 45 is a great starting point just to figure out how low you want to go. I can play this frame in the high 30s with no issues.
I think encouraging people to start at mid-low 40's tension was arguably the best thing to happen to this thread (and the people who have switched to this racquet) because I could see how people (myself included) may have started at something like 50 since it's the middle of the recommended 45-55 range, and gotten turned off by how it plays, and knowing what I know now, I would never go that high on this racquet with poly. Whereas the mid-low 40's with poly really gives it the good blend of playability, ease of use, and comfort, and it pretty much had me sold from day one. So major props to you and the other early adopters for that.
 

denoted

Rookie
I'm going to try alu power soft feel 18g at 47. Never played a full bed of poly before. If you knock the hell out of the ball but mostly play doubles, how long would 18g poly tend to last?
 

Jannick

Rookie
I'm going to try alu power soft feel 18g at 47. Never played a full bed of poly before. If you knock the hell out of the ball but mostly play doubles, how long would 18g poly tend to last?
I serve at arround 170kmh and hit my forehands hard with spin, haven't broken strings yet (18g mains, 17g crosses) been playing with this frame arround 3 months and restring every month. I'm not really a string breaker by the way. Multis don't last long for me but I've always used full poly without alot of string breakage.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
In true racquetholic fashion, I strung up a 4 3/8 today after selling my 4 1/4 and am going to give it another go tonight. That 4 1/4 felt insanely small and now this 4 3/8 feels bigger than my 4 3/8 RF97. Go figure.
 

atelic

Rookie
I serve at arround 170kmh and hit my forehands hard with spin, haven't broken strings yet (18g mains, 17g crosses) been playing with this frame arround 3 months and restring every month. I'm not really a string breaker by the way. Multis don't last long for me but I've always used full poly without alot of string breakage.
Agree. I doubt many people are breaking full bed poly in the 93p before cutting and restringing.

Been playing around too much with different strings to give a great answer as to exact length of time before breaking.

You'll get your money's worth.
 
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