The Prince Phantom 93P is a gift to us from TW - My Review/AMA

Dartagnan64

Legend
I don't know of a single professional player that plays with a racquet under 12oz, and slamming a racquet of this weight for maneuverability issues when you're just not used to it is a bit ignorant.
I think this is the big issue. Many pros use sticks very close in static weight, SW and head size to the 93P. What they don't use is racquets anywhere near the specs of an off the shelf retail 11 oz Babolat. So saying a 93P is for recreational players only is pretty funny. If anything its far closer to pro specs than most retail frames.

It's a great mid and certainly fits a playstyle and mindset of controlling the point. I agree it is not the ultimate defenders stick but I think I'd give up tennis if all it was about was being a human backboard. Controlled aggression. That's my playstyle and why a 93P works for me.
 

Tao69

Rookie
I think this is the big issue. Many pros use sticks very close in static weight, SW and head size to the 93P. What they don't use is racquets anywhere near the specs of an off the shelf retail 11 oz Babolat. So saying a 93P is for recreational players only is pretty funny. If anything its far closer to pro specs than most retail frames.

It's a great mid and certainly fits a playstyle and mindset of controlling the point. I agree it is not the ultimate defenders stick but I think I'd give up tennis if all it was about was being a human backboard. Controlled aggression. That's my playstyle and why a 93P works for me.
By “ultimate defenders” do you mean counter punchers?

I’m curious because a lot of people mention how certain racquets are weak defensively, which to me is different to counter punching. So I’m thinking if some have an issue with any given racquet because it’s weak on defensive shots, then they should probably look elsewhere to solve that part of their game; really defense shouldn’t be a high percentage of their shots as it implies they’ve lost control of the rally.
 

Classic-TXP-IG MID

Hall of Fame
Problem is people have preconceived notions and then use confirmation bias to regale a racquets flaws. It's heavy so they recall the times they swung late. It's small head so they recall the frame shots. Even though it may not be happening nearly as often as they suppose.

Fact is, if you have been used to 12 oz racquets it will feel right. If you'e been used to 11 oz racquets it won't feel as right. We are what we've grown used to. Then we try to come up for reasons why its the racquets fault.
Completely agree with everything you've said here... people need to take more personal responsibility for the way they play and how the results come out.

I'd say in the great majority (85-90%, if not more) it's you (the person) and the rest is your equipment. Yes, you may play better with a certain string but that would be very marginal. Mostly it's the feel of a particular string (more dull, livelier, firmer or softer, etc) that we gel with. I would say the majority of Pro players use round strings, rather than shaped, but if you gave them different strings all it would take is a very short period of adjustment and they would play almost the same as before.

As humans, we adapt, and after a period we get used to different things and it's like no change was made at all. Therefore, if we gave it enough time, we would play with any racquet and any size, or string up to our given talent and capabilities. The problem is that these days we all want things instantly and we expect the gear to deliver everything. This is impossible and unrealistic.

Find a racquet that you feel comfortable with, find a string it plays well with, and then go out and play the game and work on improving yourself and your game. It's you and not the equipment that will make the most difference.

I collect racquets because I like how they look and it's fun to change things around every once and a while, not because I think that the next racquet will be the one that will solve all my problems and be perfect. Yes, we play better with some racquets than others, but that will usually be due to the balance, weight, SW, and RA preferences, but once you find the right combination of those, the size of the racquet head will make very little difference (in my opinion).
 

Toby14

Semi-Pro
Yes, we play better with some racquets than others, but that will usually be due to the balance, weight, SW, and RA preferences, but once you find the right combination of those, the size of the racquet head will make very little difference (in my opinion).
I play the Angell TC95 and TC100 with the same spec and the same strin setup - I am amazed how much 5 sq inches actually matters in a racquet head size. Comparing the headsize of two, they seem very close, but they play very different.

I am sure the same goes for the Phantom 93P and the 100P 18x20

Anyway I actually agree wirh the rest of your great post.

Cheers, Toby
 

Kal-El 34

Hall of Fame
Pretty sure Dimitrov uses a 93 sq.in. racquet.

A number of pro players use 95 sq.in. racquets, which honestly is not miles away from 93 sq. in.
who cares what certain pros play with? the 93 on this prince frame is very similar in size to most company produced 95 sq in head. It feels no different in my opinion and has been an extremely easy frame to get used to playing. if you like old school feeling head frames, this one should def be on the demo list
 

flanker2000fr

Professional
who cares what certain pros play with? the 93 on this prince frame is very similar in size to most company produced 95 sq in head. It feels no different in my opinion and has been an extremely easy frame to get used to playing. if you like old school feeling head frames, this one should def be on the demo list
I don't care what pros play with, I was merely answering a question.

As for the 93P, I have 3 of them, and yes they are great, old school feeling frames, but I wouldn't qualify them exactly as easy to play with. One needs really good mechanics, and a bit of strength too, to cope with the 350g strung + overgrip over the course of 3 sets.
 

Tao69

Rookie
Anyone else using natural gut? I bought a 2nd 14x18 93p and definitely liking the natural gut and poly combo in it.
I'm playing with a full bed in the 18x20, really liking it. In the 14x18 I have a gut/poly hybrid, VS Touch/Lux Alu Power Rough, like the feel and control it gives.
 
How much faster are the strings breaking in the 14x18 compared to the 18x20. Do you think the string breaking in the 14x18 is any different then the phantom 100.
 

Tao69

Rookie
How much faster are the strings breaking in the 14x18 compared to the 18x20. Do you think the string breaking in the 14x18 is any different then the phantom 100.
I think that's really going to depend on your technique. I played with a hybrid in my Pro Staff 95S and I got reasonable use out of it (20+ hours), by then the poly was well and truly dead anyway, if anything I wanted to cut it out well before it snapped; but I'm not a string breaker.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Anyone else using natural gut? I bought a 2nd 14x18 93p and definitely liking the natural gut and poly combo in it.
I use gut/poly in the 18x20 and I'd use it in the 14x18 if I had one. I'd probably use a thicker gauge in the 14x18. Love the feel of gut in these racquets and the soft poly cross ups the spin and control for me. Legend Mains and Tier One Ghostwire Crosses.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't care what pros play with, I was merely answering a question.

As for the 93P, I have 3 of them, and yes they are great, old school feeling frames, but I wouldn't qualify them exactly as easy to play with. One needs really good mechanics, and a bit of strength too, to cope with the 350g strung + overgrip over the course of 3 sets.
I think Kal is saying that for it’s specs it is easy to play with. Compared to a Pure Aero or a light power frame it is not.

I have a Yonex 89 and the Prince is a lot easier to use, imo.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
I don't care what pros play with, I was merely answering a question.

As for the 93P, I have 3 of them, and yes they are great, old school feeling frames, but I wouldn't qualify them exactly as easy to play with. One needs really good mechanics, and a bit of strength too, to cope with the 350g strung + overgrip over the course of 3 sets.
One wonders how Chris Evert managed to compete with a 14 oz wooden racquet for so many years. Have tennis players become so weak that a middle aged male finds 12 oz racquets a burden?

Yes the 93P isn't the most forgiving racquet. It's a scalpel not a shotgun. But I do really find the complaint of "heavy" as a ludicrous concept given that as kids many of us used wooden frames that were significantly heavier than anything you can buy in a store today.
 

Kal-El 34

Hall of Fame
I think Kal is saying that for it’s specs it is easy to play with. Compared to a Pure Aero or a light power frame it is not.

I have a Yonex 89 and the Prince is a lot easier to use, imo.
Like any racket it is all in how you play. I find the Prince easier to use than a pure aero in all honesty. The ball comes off the racket more effectively. I didn't find there to be any learning curve and I was playing an aero vs weighted up before this and I like the Prince infinitely better. If you can swing smooth you don't have to be incredibly strong to use a heavier racket.

If you're in the market for a light power frame, you probabaly aren't looking at this racket, but that doesn't mean a 93 (that plays larger) has no market currently.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Like any racket it is all in how you play. I find the Prince easier to use than a pure aero in all honesty. The ball comes off the racket more effectively. I didn't find there to be any learning curve and I was playing an aero vs weighted up before this and I like the Prince infinitely better. If you can swing smooth you don't have to be incredibly strong to use a heavier racket.

If you're in the market for a light power frame, you probabaly aren't looking at this racket, but that doesn't mean a 93 (that plays larger) has no market currently.
Yeah I agree with this. For me the Prince fits my game really well. I do find the Pure Aero easier to sit back and hit thin and deep with, but that’s not really how I enjoy to play tennis, and better players above 4.0 can eat that up anyway.

I think in general a lot of people here don’t swing that smooth or move or setup consistently, so they will find this frame tougher to use. If I was playing a level above my ability I would have the same issues, so I know the feeling. The thing is when the players are better, no racquet really will help anyway.

I actually find a weighted up Pure Aero to be pretty demanding as well. I played my PA+s at 325 grams - basically stock. Which is wild since my preferred weight is around 12 ounces.
 

FourOutOfFive

New User
How much faster are the strings breaking in the 14x18 compared to the 18x20. Do you think the string breaking in the 14x18 is any different then the phantom 100.
The 14x18 shreds through strings. I was breaking a full bed of Hyper G 17 every 2 hours. I’m a lefty with a 10 UTR for reference.

With the same string in my 18x20s, I get about 8 hours until they break. Any longer and I’d probably cut them out. The 18x20 is still a very spin friendly frame imo, if you have fast enough strokes.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
I think Kal is saying that for it’s specs it is easy to play with. Compared to a Pure Aero or a light power frame it is not.

I have a Yonex 89 and the Prince is a lot easier to use, imo.
I find that on groundstrokes from the baseline where I have plenty of runway to accelerate it up to speed, the 93p swings easier than i would expect for it’s weight due to the thin beam and small headsize which cuts through the air so effortlessly as well as the extreme HL balance. On shots where the runway is shorter and I need to accelerate it quicker, that’s where I’m reminded that the 93p is still a 12+ oz racquet with a 330+ swing weight.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
On shots where the runway is shorter and I need to accelerate it quicker, that’s where I’m reminded that the 93p is still a 12+ oz racquet with a 330+ swing weight.
Its funny I used to complain about my PD for opposite reasons. When i was pushed for time with the PD or AeroPro I'd tend to hit late and try to muscle the ball into the court. I wouldn't be able to get enough RHS to get good spin and the ball would tend to pop up and stay up, leading to either a weak sitter or a ball that floated into the back fence. With the 93P in that same situation I can arm back a flat shot, low over the net that gives the opponent more difficulty.

The biggest issue i have is hitting clean in those situations (with any type of frame). That's a focus issue not a racquet issue.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Its funny I used to complain about my PD for opposite reasons. When i was pushed for time with the PD or AeroPro I'd tend to hit late and try to muscle the ball into the court. I wouldn't be able to get enough RHS to get good spin and the ball would tend to pop up and stay up, leading to either a weak sitter or a ball that floated into the back fence. With the 93P in that same situation I can arm back a flat shot, low over the net that gives the opponent more difficulty.

The biggest issue i have is hitting clean in those situations (with any type of frame). That's a focus issue not a racquet issue.
I get it. The 93p works for you and your game at your level. I’m ecstatic for you.

I like how the 93p feels and plays from the baseline on groundstrokes and at net on volleys. It’s the baseline to net transition game where I find it’s not the best racquet for me and my game.

It’s not a focus issue. All my hitting partners have told me the VCP 97 is the best racquet for me in terms of consistency, shot quality, and shot variety. I have seen the best match results with the VCP.
 
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Kal-El 34

Hall of Fame
I get it. The 93p works for you and your game at your level. I’m ecstatic for you.

I like how the 93p feels and plays from the baseline on groundstrokes and at net on volleys. It’s the baseline to net transition game where I find it’s not the best racquet for me and my game.

It’s not a focus issue. All my hitting partners have told me the VCP 97 is the best racquet for me in terms of consistency, shot quality, and shot variety. I have seen the best match results with the VCP.
that's awesome you found what works for you too man! honestly there is no singular best racket out there. whatever works best for you works best for you who cares really what anyone else thinks!
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
...honestly there is no singular best racket out there. whatever works best for you works best for you who cares really what anyone else thinks!
Exactly. The other thing is the demands of the game are very different as you develop and improve as a player, too. When I was playing weaker, slower players, I didn’t need to hit my cc shots as sharply angled with as much spin because they couldn’t get to the ones I was hitting deep to the corner. As I improved and started playing stronger players, they can get to those balls so I needed to hit these cc shots shorter at a sharper angle and in order to do so, I had to increase the rhs to get more spin to bring the ball down faster.

My point is as I’ve gotten better as a player, I need for my stick to do more things than I needed before due to the better competition I’m playing against. I found this to be true in motorcycle racing as well. As I started riding faster, I needed a stiffer suspension setup vs when I started racing due to the higher speeds I was going through the corners with and the need for quicker rebounding and more dampening when going over bumps in corners. When I was riding slower, the stiffer suspension just wasn’t necessary. I just thought it was downright uncomfortable.
 
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Dartagnan64

Legend
I get it. The 93p works for you and your game at your level. I’m ecstatic for you.

I like how the 93p feels and plays from the baseline on groundstrokes and at net on volleys. It’s the baseline to net transition game where I find it’s not the best racquet for me and my game.

It’s not a focus issue. All my hitting partners have told me the VCP 97 is the best racquet for me in terms of consistency, shot quality, and shot variety. I have seen the best match results with the VCP.
My friend has that racquet and it is a nice frame. Seems very similarly balanced to the 93P with maybe a little more forgiveness and a little less control. I'm sure I could play well with that frame also. I'm pretty sure I can play well (or badly) with any frame.

Fortunately my match results are independent of my racquet and entirely dependent on my brain, so i can play with whatever racquet feels good and doesn't hurt my arm.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
My friend has that racquet and it is a nice frame. Seems very similarly balanced to the 93P with maybe a little more forgiveness and a little less control. I'm sure I could play well with that frame also. I'm pretty sure I can play well (or badly) with any frame.

Fortunately my match results are independent of my racquet and entirely dependent on my brain, so i can play with whatever racquet feels good and doesn't hurt my arm.
Nope. I switched to the VCP 97 from the Ultra Tour. Personally, FOR ME, the Ultra Tour offers more control than the 93p. The reason why I switched to the VCP is because I did not lose any control from the baseline but I gained more control in putting away the short balls. The only thing I gave up was the buttery feel of the Ultra Tour. Not that the VCP feels awful, it just doesn’t feel buttery like the UT. So if the Ultra Tour offered more control for me than the 93p and the VCP offers even more control than the UT, the VCP has better control than the 93p for me. My meaning of control is directional, depth, spin and any combination of these - not just left right.

Again, I am so thrilled for you that you found your soul mate in the 93p. Cheers!
 

n8dawg6

Legend
Did you do any club racing? If so which track and what class did you ride? I raced lightweight and 600 super sport at willow springs.
no, all informal for me ... my closest track is birmingham and thats a minimum 3-4 hr trip. almost all my 10 yrs of riding have been on an xr1200 and a 600. i love winding up the 600s. have really been out of it the last 2 yrs unfortunately. distracted cages worry me these days
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
no, all informal for me ... my closest track is birmingham and thats a minimum 3-4 hr trip. almost all my 10 yrs of riding have been on an xr1200 and a 600. i love winding up the 600s. have really been out of it the last 2 yrs unfortunately. distracted cages worry me these days
Ah...heavyweight twins class! Nice...i was pretty fast in the canyons but once I got on the big track at willow, I learned that there’s fast and then there’s FAST!!!

While they are spelled the same, the balls and skills required to be in the latter group were at a completely different level. :)
 

haqq777

Legend
still think i missed my calling ... too late now, i developed a sense of self-preservation. anathema to going fastest
Did you do any club racing? If so which track and what class did you ride? I raced lightweight and 600 super sport at willow springs.
Awesome stuff fellas. I owned a 2003 CBR 600 in college. Got it my sophomore year after saving up flipping burgers and bussing tables in summers. Never raced though, I picked up riding very late and I sold the bike after I got married. Was a sad day but it wasn't being ridden nearly enough.

Every now and then I look at some nice Ducatis and Ninjas on traffic lights and sigh loudly. Makes the wife chuckle and she says 'no' out loudly.

Anyway, do you need special license or paperwork for club racing? We just had a group of bikers and we would go riding some weekends in groups. Fastest in our group were the Hayabusas. I just never liked the shape. It is incredibly easy to ride for a big bike though.

To everyone, sorry for pulling a tangent on the tennis/racquet talk fellas.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
@haqq777

Club racing

Rider requirements: I needed to go through new rider training class to be able to race in the novice class. After you successfully finished a certain number of races, you could move up to expert class.

Bike requirements: headlights, brake lights and turn signals removed. All critical nuts and bolts securing hoses or parts that contained fluids and oils, needed to be secured with safety wire.

You had to don full racing leathers, helmet, gloves and boots.

Think that was it.
 

haqq777

Legend
@haqq777

Club racing

Rider requirements: I needed to go through new rider training class to be able to race in the novice class. After you successfully finished a certain number of races, you could move up to expert class.

Bike requirements: headlights, brake lights and turn signals removed. All critical nuts and bolts securing hoses or parts that contained fluids and oils, needed to be secured with safety wire.

You had to don full racing leathers, helmet, gloves and boots.

Think that was it.
Yeah, that sounds like very proper racing. Not a bunch of guys gathering to race on a track like say, weekend club tennis, lol.
 

Classic-TXP-IG MID

Hall of Fame
One wonders how Chris Evert managed to compete with a 14 oz wooden racquet for so many years. Have tennis players become so weak that a middle aged male finds 12 oz racquets a burden?

Yes the 93P isn't the most forgiving racquet. It's a scalpel not a shotgun. But I do really find the complaint of "heavy" as a ludicrous concept given that as kids many of us used wooden frames that were significantly heavier than anything you can buy in a store today.
Absolutely spot on... (y)
 

n8dawg6

Legend
Ah...heavyweight twins class! Nice...i was pretty fast in the canyons but once I got on the big track at willow, I learned that there’s fast and then there’s FAST!!!

While they are spelled the same, the balls and skills required to be in the latter group were at a completely different level. :)
thats the truth ... and when you think you know FAST fast, watch some marc marquez onboard footage. crazy stuff
 

n8dawg6

Legend
Awesome stuff fellas. I owned a 2003 CBR 600 in college. Got it my sophomore year after saving up flipping burgers and bussing tables in summers. Never raced though, I picked up riding very late and I sold the bike after I got married. Was a sad day but it wasn't being ridden nearly enough.

Every now and then I look at some nice Ducatis and Ninjas on traffic lights and sigh loudly. Makes the wife chuckle and she says 'no' out loudly.

Anyway, do you need special license or paperwork for club racing? We just had a group of bikers and we would go riding some weekends in groups. Fastest in our group were the Hayabusas. I just never liked the shape. It is incredibly easy to ride for a big bike though.

To everyone, sorry for pulling a tangent on the tennis/racquet talk fellas.
CBR is and has always been a solid bike. so are the kwaks though ... and the baby gixxers. mine was a first gen triumph tt600 which is really a POS until you hit 7,000 rpm. then it sings

also sorry for the tangent
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
I posted in the Holic thread that I got a deal on a new black Yonex VCore 98 so I bought it. My favorite Yonex frame that I used a ton was the xi98. Its a players tweener so it gives you really nice control with a load of power. It was interesting to use tonight. Even leaded up to 340 it felt really light compared to the Phantom.

Some of the differences may help some folks out who are interested in the P93.

Main difference I notice is how I attack the ball with each frame. The Phantom needs more direct and linear contact, while the Yonex rewards a little more brush. The P93 is a very nice frame for relaxed and Iinear hitting, which is why I dig it. You let the frame do the work and the ball will stay nice and deep. The Yonex rewards a little higher racquet speed, but I can still play a similar game. It has substantially more power so you need to control it more with spin. Both seemed to hit a very nice rally ball, but I would say that the Yonex will kick out more spin off the bounce.

I was able to switch between the two after I got in a groove and it was not much of an issue. Over time I can probably share more differences between the two racquets if I keep the Yonex. I still have my old Xis as well so most likely the Yonex will stay.

The feel and weight of the P93 is very special. It’s just not something you will find with a modern frame, but the fact that some of them like the Vcore are getting a little softer is a really good thing.
 

flanker2000fr

Professional
One wonders how Chris Evert managed to compete with a 14 oz wooden racquet for so many years. Have tennis players become so weak that a middle aged male finds 12 oz racquets a burden?

Yes the 93P isn't the most forgiving racquet. It's a scalpel not a shotgun. But I do really find the complaint of "heavy" as a ludicrous concept given that as kids many of us used wooden frames that were significantly heavier than anything you can buy in a store today.
Because she was taught with these racquets and developed her technique accordingly. I am sure that if you had given her one of Suzanne Lenglen's racquets, she would have struggled too.

Technique evolves with time and technology, and players even at recreational level swing their racquet very differently now than what they used to in the 70's, when I was taught with one of these small, heavy wooden frames, using eastern / continental grips and a OHBH (like 95% of the kids I was playing with). People now try to impart far more spin, with a more vertical racquet head trajectory than 40 years ago when one was told to drive through the ball, very much like Chris Evert did. In those days, you'd have to be extremely strong physically like Borg of Vilas to achieve considerable topspin with the technology available at the time.

And let's be honest: it wasn't fun being taught with those super heavy racquets, as it would take a much longer time to learn to put a ball back in court. It's a good thing for the game that racquets have become easier for kids to learn with, who otherwise would get discouraged and not persevere with the sport (insert here a rant about shorter attention span / need for instant gratification of younger generations).

So you're barking at the wrong tree: I am very familiar with what you describe, and I played most of my tennis as a teenager in the 80's with an Adidas GTX Pro / Boron / Pro T, all 75 sq. in. and 13.5 oz of it.

Better still: I got back into the sport 2.5 years ago after a 25 years hiatus, and being a bit of a contrarian / old school type of guy, I laughed off modern technology and decided to start playing again with vintage racquets. I spent 3 month literally pillaging the bay and every classified website around the world to procure a collection of Kneissl White Star Pro Masters / Adidas GTX Pro and all iterations of that mould. I gathered about 15 of them, ranging from 12.5 to 14 oz. unstrung, and started playing a local tournament here in HK with them. I enjoyed good success in my first 3 rounds against technically inferior players. Then, in the fourth round, I faced a really good player, probably around the 4.5 mark, and got my ass whooped: I was constantly late on the ball and just didn't have the time to develop the full swing the racquet required. The lack of tolerance, and power, in defensive situations was prohibitive.

So I concluded that trying to play, at 47, the same racquet as Lendl played at 27 was probably not a good idea (I know, I'm smart like that), and decided to look for more realistic options. Tried the Wilson PS97 (315g) and didn't like it (too stiff). Then played with a Yonex DR98, which I liked much better (softer on the arm), but still felt somewhat disconnected from the ball. Then moved to the Prince Phantom line and really clicked with the traditional feel of those racquets. Started with the 93P, which is wonderful, but the low launch angle is an issue, particularly on returns (I hit the top of the net a lot). Plus, even if I am reasonably fit and strong, with a good arm that's accustomed to heavy racquets, I do tire at the end of a 3 sets singles game. Which prompted me to move to the PP100P, which has more or less the same feel as the 93P, is slightly less accurate, doesn't hit as big a flat ball or serve, but helps me play with a lot more net clearance. And doesn't tire me quite as much. Now, I just need to be able to customize it to regain some speed on serve, as the 93P is markedly better in this department for me.

PS: talking about heavy frames, I am receiving today a vintage Head Vilas Wood / Composite from TW, strung @ 50lbs with Babolat VS Touch, which I fully intend to take out for a hit.
 
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Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Agree. The game back in the 80s was a different game. I learned on a giant prince and then switched to a mid in the 90s. The weight was probably 13 ounces or so. I was hitting with a lot of spin but its not like today.

The game now is more about imparting spin with a more vertical stroke. But many people still do benefit from letting a heavy frame plow the ball, so there is room for both.

I wouldn’t want to play modern tennis with Chris Everts 14 ounce frame I know that much.
 

haqq777

Legend
I posted in the Holic thread that I got a deal on a new black Yonex VCore 98 so I bought it. My favorite Yonex frame that I used a ton was the xi98. Its a players tweener so it gives you really nice control with a load of power. It was interesting to use tonight. Even leaded up to 340 it felt really light compared to the Phantom.

Some of the differences may help some folks out who are interested in the P93.

Main difference I notice is how I attack the ball with each frame. The Phantom needs more direct and linear contact, while the Yonex rewards a little more brush. The P93 is a very nice frame for relaxed and Iinear hitting, which is why I dig it. You let the frame do the work and the ball will stay nice and deep. The Yonex rewards a little higher racquet speed, but I can still play a similar game. It has substantially more power so you need to control it more with spin. Both seemed to hit a very nice rally ball, but I would say that the Yonex will kick out more spin off the bounce.

I was able to switch between the two after I got in a groove and it was not much of an issue. Over time I can probably share more differences between the two racquets if I keep the Yonex. I still have my old Xis as well so most likely the Yonex will stay.

The feel and weight of the P93 is very special. It’s just not something you will find with a modern frame, but the fact that some of them like the Vcore are getting a little softer is a really good thing.
I had two of the Xi 98 and I echo your feedback. If you remember PP, I sent you a message too when I got them a few years ago since you had a thread about them. Very nice sticks for sure. Needed a little weight in the hoop because too light swingweight for me stock. But yeah. Overall great sticks. Wish I knew Yonex lines well enough. What came right after the Xi 98? Trying to see which one currently in market is it's modern version.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
I had two of the Xi 98 and I echo your feedback. If you remember PP, I sent you a message too when I got them a few years ago since you had a thread about them. Very nice sticks for sure. Needed a little weight in the hoop because too light swingweight for me stock. But yeah. Overall great sticks. Wish I knew Yonex lines well enough. What came right after the Xi 98? Trying to see which one currently in market is it's modern version.
It’s the one I have - the new Vcore 98. The one right after was the SI 98 and then the SV98. I didn’t like either version of those, they were pretty brassy and stiff. The xi was stiff but never once has bothered my arms in the 5 or so years I have owned it. Needs weight for sure, but the xi was one of those frames I messed with different setups on. I made it into a 365 SW monster just for fun for a while and that was awesome, the power was unfair. But I personally like these players tweeners at around 340 grams or so and thats where the 98 is leaded now. I figured out that the bigger the head and longer the handle, the lighter the frame for me. So while the P93 plays great at 350, the Vcore 98 would be way too powerful for me at least. Some guys play these things in stock form, but they are usually in their teens and have the energy to swing super hard for 3 hours. At 340, it comes around very fast and feels very light compared to the P93, but it hits a deep and heavy ball. Coming from the P93, it is tricky to get a read on where the ball is going sometimes, so I need to see if I can sort that out. I think I strung it a little loose - it probably needs to be strung at 50 and then drop to 45 or so. But every Yonex Ive bought, the first string job is never an ideal hit. I hated the Xi the first time I hit with it, and then the strings settled in and I added lead and it became a force.

I’m starting to focus on how I like to hit the ball for the most consistency and also enjoyment of the game. With a Babo tweener, I brush pretty hard. It works, and is easy, but it’s a pretty high trajectory ball and not that fun of a game. With the P93, I am hitting through the ball more. Consistency is very high with it and for whatever reason I can defend very well on the backhand side with it (2hbh). The Yonex Vcore 98 gives the opportunity to attack from both wings with a little more depth, but it needs a little more brushing of the ball to do so.

The trick is finding the happy medium where I am confident to hit consistently over and over and also hit big and through when needed. Not sure if that is the Vcore 98 or the Vcore Pro 310. For now, the P93 is what I am best with, since its all I have used for over a year. I am so used to it that high balls to the backhand are not really that much of an issue as one would think. I just get off the ground and hit downwards, if that makes any sense. It keeps the return deep.

Funny thing about playing lower level guys or guys on my level who just aren’t quite as good. Consistency. At some point a lower level guy will just do something questionable (usually overhitting) and give me the point. I can’t count how many points I have gotten from just firing heavy slice at a guy with the P93, and I am topspin player. But when you mix it up, some guys try and tee off on those slice shots and just hand points over and over. So it makes me into kind of an all-court grinder or something. Anyway, the point is that I will always choose the frame I can play most consistent with.
 
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flanker2000fr

Professional
Funny thing about playing lower level guys or guys on my level who just aren’t quite as good. Consistency. At some point a lower level guy will just do something questionable (usually overhitting) and give me the point. I can’t count how many points I have gotten from just firing heavy slice at a guy with the P93, and I am topspin player. But when you mix it up, some guys try and tee off on those slice shots and just hand points over and over. So it makes me into kind of an all-court grinder or something. Anyway, the point is that I will always choose the frame I can play most consistent with.
The 93P is indeed very good for slice, and yes, it is a great weapon, especially against player with Western FH grips. It's really tricky to get the ball back up, and some do overhit, giving away free points.

Very true, also that consistency is the most critical element. Incidentally, this is what got me to transition from the 93P to the PP100P. I was hitting more aces / winners with the 93P, but also making more unforced errors. I have reduced my error count with my PP100P, at the expense of some punch on the FH and serve. But I am winning more games...
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
The Clash doesn’t hurt the arm and feels good...;)
I tried it again this am (my wife plays with it). It doesn't hurt the arm but I don't really like the feel. Ball contact is so indistinct in that frame. Similar to my Phantom 100 with ports. I could definitely hit reasonably well with it once I adjusted for the launch angle but it doesn't have that crisp touch and pocketing of the Phantom 18x20's. Still a good frame and definitely one that Babolat addicts should consider.

Interestingly I played with 3 racquets this am. Warmed up with the Clash, played a set of singles with the POG 107 and played one on one doubles with a Phantom 100. Won the sets 6-1, 6-1 just like I usually do with my Phantom 93P. But I prefer the 93P feel despite similar results across all my frames.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Technique evolves with time and technology, and players even at recreational level swing their racquet very differently now than what they used to in the 70's, when I was taught with one of these small, heavy wooden frames, using eastern / continental grips and a OHBH (like 95% of the kids I was playing with).
I agree that kids swing differently now that they did in the 70's. But I don't find that many players change their swings dramatically over time and technology. I play with guys mostly in the 40+ age group and only a small number play a truly modern heavy topspin game even at the 5.0 levels.
Western grips are almost unseen in my age group.

If you tell me you are 18 and find 12 oz sticks heavy, then I get it. If you tell me you are 47 and find 12 oz sticks heavy I'm confused.

But I know every TW poster hits 4000 RPM FH's like Nadal so my experience is probably very different than that of people on these boards. ;)
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
I agree that kids swing differently now that they did in the 70's. But I don't find that many players change their swings dramatically over time and technology. I play with guys mostly in the 40+ age group and only a small number play a truly modern heavy topspin game even at the 5.0 levels.
Western grips are almost unseen in my age group.

If you tell me you are 18 and find 12 oz sticks heavy, then I get it. If you tell me you are 47 and find 12 oz sticks heavy I'm confused.

But I know every TW poster hits 4000 RPM FH's like Nadal so my experience is probably very different than that of people on these boards. ;)
Not sure when you started playing tennis but many of us were hitting with heavy spin as Juniors in the 90s. Plenty of guys 40+ hit with heavy spin now. It’s not like the topspin game is a new phenomenon. It’s always been there, but the equipment changed to accommodate it.

I don’t think it is crazy that someone 40+ would prefer lighter frames now, especially considering so many play with stock Babolat and do quite well. Also, the original discussion was around old school 14 plus ounce frames.

Personally I can still generate the tip speed with heavier frames so I like to stick around 340-350 grams depending the frame. But there are a ton of variables there as well. How long is the swing, what is the grip, what is the general intent when hitting the ball and how much tip speed are you trying to generate.

In your case it sounds like you are a low tip speed player, but tons of guys are not. I am also down here in FL and the talent level is very high. Many guys from other countries who grew up on clay and are exceptionally strong players in their 40’s and 50’s.
 

flanker2000fr

Professional
I agree that kids swing differently now that they did in the 70's. But I don't find that many players change their swings dramatically over time and technology. I play with guys mostly in the 40+ age group and only a small number play a truly modern heavy topspin game even at the 5.0 levels.
Western grips are almost unseen in my age group.

If you tell me you are 18 and find 12 oz sticks heavy, then I get it. If you tell me you are 47 and find 12 oz sticks heavy I'm confused.

But I know every TW poster hits 4000 RPM FH's like Nadal so my experience is probably very different than that of people on these boards. ;)
I am actually 49 now, and I can handle a 12+ oz. stick with no issue. It's just that it tires me more if a singles game is protracted. I am most comfortable just under the 340g mark. The 93P, with Hyper g 17, overgrip and vibration dampener is closer to 350g, so a bit heavier than I like.

As for 4,000 RPM FH's, if only...
 
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