The Prince Phantom 93P is a gift to us from TW - My Review/AMA

hurworld

Hall of Fame
Specifically, what new set up are you leaning towards to give you a lower swing weight?
Probably thin gauge poly. That's the lightest string bed you can get.
@Dartagnan64 is correct. For me, either thin smooth gauge poly in the cross with thin gauged poly/gut/syn gut mains, or go back to full bed syn gut.

I think, in general, string density goes in order (for the same thickness):

natural gut > poly > multi > syn gut or kevlar

Happy to be corrected.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Restrung my 93p 18/20 up with Volkl v-torque 18g @ 45# on an electronic CP machine. I had no other use for my 18g v-torque since it pops too quickly so figured the 93p with its tight dense pattern might be a good racket to try it in. Turns out it is a great call. Actually love how it plays in the 93p! :)
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Restrung my 93p 18/20 up with Volkl v-torque 18g @ 45# on an electronic CP machine. I had no other use for my 18g v-torque since it pops too quickly so figured the 93p with its tight dense pattern might be a good racket to try it in. Turns out it is a great call. Actually love how it plays in the 93p! :)
Yeah i bet thats a good fit. Wonder how long it will last for you.
 

shaysrebelII

Professional
Quick bump just to say I might be moving on from the 93P. I haven’t been clicking on serve returns, and with playoffs in my doubles league coming up, I need to be able to count on my returns. I practiced with my modded Pure Aero Tour this morning and went 2-0 in sets against some of my better teammates. I’ll try using it for the time being.

I can’t remember if it was this thread or the one in the strings forum, but I did just restring the 93P with SPPP 1.23 after finishing my trial with Lux BB Ace. Ace was fun when it was fresh but around hour 7-8 it got pretty erratic. If messing around with SPPP feels good, then I’ll give the 93P another go, but otherwise it looks like I just need a more forgiving frame.
 

taylor15

Rookie
I recall the Vcore Tour 89 being more demanding than the 93p...but it’s been a while...
I remember the same, though I’ve only hit the Tour 89 a few times.

I had previously abandoned my 93p and moved to a tour 100p with leather grip and a bit of lead at the tip. It’s about 10g lighter strung and a bit more forgiving.

I’m still using the 100p in singles, but I’ve picked up playing doubles lately and the 93p is my go to doubles stick. I love it for volley and serve placement. Unfortunately the 100p excels for my singles game.
 

mhkeuns

Hall of Fame
Does anyone have experience comparing the Phantom 93p with the Yonex Vcore Tour 89?
I have both. The Vcore Tour 89, to me, is one of the best frames Yonex has ever produced. It swings easy, plays a lot bigger than its headsize and is deceptively powerful. I prefer the feel and balance of the Tour 89 over any Yonex frames. That said, the 93P comes around easier and faster. The 93P is much easier frame to use compared to the VT89. I think the 93P beats it in just about every category, except for serves and power. Those two are pretty equal in my opinion.
 
Hey guys, i'm a 5.0 player playing with 93P strung with RS LYON 1.20 44 lbs. I tried the phantom pro 100 18x20 but i couldn't feel the same pleasure that i have to serve and slice with the 93P. As for now and 3 months of playing with it, i'd like to get a bit more power, especially on returns. Against hard hitters on serves, i barely clear the net. By the way thanks to everyone sharing on this thread, once you read 65 pages, you feel the need to buy that cheat ! And that was a freaking good idea !

Anyway here is my question, i bought an hybrid babolat string VS gut with synth gut. Which tension should i put for natural gut mains and synthetic gut crosses ? Should i stay in the same range like 48/44 ? I never played with nat gut, i'm not sure how much it's powerful compared to soft poly.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Hey guys, i'm a 5.0 player playing with 93P strung with RS LYON 1.20 44 lbs. I tried the phantom pro 100 18x20 but i couldn't feel the same pleasure that i have to serve and slice with the 93P. As for now and 3 months of playing with it, i'd like to get a bit more power, especially on returns. Against hard hitters on serves, i barely clear the net. By the way thanks to everyone sharing on this thread, once you read 65 pages, you feel the need to buy that cheat ! And that was a freaking good idea !

Anyway here is my question, i bought an hybrid babolat string VS gut with synth gut. Which tension should i put for natural gut mains and synthetic gut crosses ? Should i stay in the same range like 48/44 ? I never played with nat gut, i'm not sure how much it's powerful compared to soft poly.
Gut mains is very powerful compared to poly. I play gut/poly hybrid in my 93P and have the gut at 50 and poly at 44-45.

And I'd strongly advise a soft poly cross for the gut since I synthetic cross will lock the stringbed and substantially reduce spin.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Hey guys, i'm a 5.0 player playing with 93P strung with RS LYON 1.20 44 lbs. I tried the phantom pro 100 18x20 but i couldn't feel the same pleasure that i have to serve and slice with the 93P. As for now and 3 months of playing with it, i'd like to get a bit more power, especially on returns. Against hard hitters on serves, i barely clear the net. By the way thanks to everyone sharing on this thread, once you read 65 pages, you feel the need to buy that cheat ! And that was a freaking good idea !

Anyway here is my question, i bought an hybrid babolat string VS gut with synth gut. Which tension should i put for natural gut mains and synthetic gut crosses ? Should i stay in the same range like 48/44 ? I never played with nat gut, i'm not sure how much it's powerful compared to soft poly.
Yeah I think you are in the right ballpark. I'd probably do 50/45 or so like D64 said above.
 

denoted

Rookie
I don't think you can string the gut too high. I'm currently at 55/52 and still hitting balls long in the heat and humidity.
 
Thanks for your replies, should i throw away the synth gut and put nat gut mains and keep rs lyon crosses ? Will it be better in term of durability ? Is there any downside to gut/poly over gut/synth gut on 93P ? I heard that you can keep gut/synth gut until break, i wouldn’t have to cut it because of mono being stiff (if i can get more than 15hours of it)
 
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Anton

Legend
Hey guys, i'm a 5.0 player playing with 93P strung with RS LYON 1.20 44 lbs. I tried the phantom pro 100 18x20 but i couldn't feel the same pleasure that i have to serve and slice with the 93P. As for now and 3 months of playing with it, i'd like to get a bit more power, especially on returns. Against hard hitters on serves, i barely clear the net. By the way thanks to everyone sharing on this thread, once you read 65 pages, you feel the need to buy that cheat ! And that was a freaking good idea !

Anyway here is my question, i bought an hybrid babolat string VS gut with synth gut. Which tension should i put for natural gut mains and synthetic gut crosses ? Should i stay in the same range like 48/44 ? I never played with nat gut, i'm not sure how much it's powerful compared to soft poly.
Adding weight (lead) will add way more actual power than strings, especially considering you already play at low tension. What softer strings mostly do is launch the ball higher, which may land the ball deeper, but it won't be because of "more power".

Here is what my leaded up 93P looks like:

 
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Dartagnan64

Legend
Thanks for your replies, should i throw away the synth gut and put nat gut mains and keep rs lyon crosses ? Will it be better in term of durability ? Is there any downside to gut/poly over gut/synth gut on 93P ? I heard that you can keep gut/synth gut until break, i wouldn’t have to cut it because of mono being stiff (if i can get more than 15hours of it)
You'll have to cut gut/syn gut out before it breaks because it'll either lock up or slide all over. Gut/poly you can generally keep in a long time if you use a poly with decent tension maintenance (4G, Max power, Proline 2 if you like them stiff; Cream, SPPP, Ghostwire if you like them soft). Loss of resilience in a cross string is less an issue since the mains provide 80% of the string bed feel and performance.

I'm not sure if RS Lyon is a good cross. Is it shaped or textured? Generally smooth crosses work better with gut.
 
You'll have to cut gut/syn gut out before it breaks because it'll either lock up or slide all over. Gut/poly you can generally keep in a long time if you use a poly with decent tension maintenance (4G, Max power, Proline 2 if you like them stiff; Cream, SPPP, Ghostwire if you like them soft). Loss of resilience in a cross string is less an issue since the mains provide 80% of the string bed feel and performance.

I'm not sure if RS Lyon is a good cross. Is it shaped or textured? Generally smooth crosses work better with gut.
RS Lyon is a round one, babolat sell his hybrided nat gut with spiraltek syn gut 1.30, not sure if RS lyon 1.20 is a better cross. At least, i know it and it could be easier to adjust.

Adding weight (lead) will add way more actual power than strings, especially considering you already play at low tension. What softer strings mostly do is launch the ball higher, which may land the ball deeper, but it won't be because of "more power".

Here is what my leaded up 93P looks like:
I already customized mine too, at the moment 360g 344sw 7.2HL 21 mgr/i. However i don't like depolarized it (i saw you put lead at 3 & 9). 13.8 twistweight is fine enough i think, i feel loosing spin and manoeuvrability on serves when depolarized.
 

Anton

Legend
Thanks for your replies, should i throw away the synth gut and put nat gut mains and keep rs lyon crosses ? Will it be better in term of durability ? Is there any downside to gut/poly over gut/synth gut on 93P ? I heard that you can keep gut/synth gut until break, i wouldn’t have to cut it because of mono being stiff (if i can get more than 15hours of it)
RS Lyon is good for cross (smooth, not too stiff and excellent tension maintanance). Gut-Poly lasts a very long time and doesn't have lock up issues like poly. it will be a touch stiffer than Gut/sGut but you'll get more action on the ball.

Also, 18x20 93P is a tight pattern so you want to go as thin as you can.
 

TheFlash26

New User
I have both. The Vcore Tour 89, to me, is one of the best frames Yonex has ever produced. It swings easy, plays a lot bigger than its headsize and is deceptively powerful. I prefer the feel and balance of the Tour 89 over any Yonex frames. That said, the 93P comes around easier and faster. The 93P is much easier frame to use compared to the VT89. I think the 93P beats it in just about every category, except for serves and power. Those two are pretty equal in my opinion.
Thanks everyone for the comparison...seems like I need to try out the Prince in the near future!
 

graycrait

Hall of Fame
Can anyone describe the 93P 18x20 compared to the Volkl Quantum Tour 10 93 from first hand hitting both? The similarities in specs are fascinating. The Skip mains are the same and are the same as the PK Redondo Mid 93. 6g weight difference. 59 vs 61 stiffness.
 
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Boubi

Rookie
Quick bump just to say I might be moving on from the 93P. I haven’t been clicking on serve returns, and with playoffs in my doubles league coming up, I need to be able to count on my returns. I practiced with my modded Pure Aero Tour this morning and went 2-0 in sets against some of my better teammates. I’ll try using it for the time being.

I can’t remember if it was this thread or the one in the strings forum, but I did just restring the 93P with SPPP 1.23 after finishing my trial with Lux BB Ace. Ace was fun when it was fresh but around hour 7-8 it got pretty erratic. If messing around with SPPP feels good, then I’ll give the 93P another go, but otherwise it looks like I just need a more forgiving frame.
This 93P is the best I know on returns, decent at net, the rest is just average
 

taylor15

Rookie
If you read through, many people have jumped on the train and got off at another station - including OP

It’s a great frame, and it’s fun to play with. Many have just found that even though it plays big for a mid that they’re not winning as many matches and they move on.
 

hurworld

Hall of Fame
If you read through, many people have jumped on the train and got off at another station - including OP

It’s a great frame, and it’s fun to play with. Many have just found that even though it plays big for a mid that they’re not winning as many matches and they move on.
While it doesn’t win many competitive matches for most, but it has sure won a permanent place in many people’s tennis bags, including mine. I still run drills with it then switch to lower SW racquets for match plays.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Addxyz

Semi-Pro
While it doesn’t win many competitive matches for most, but it has sure won a permanent place in many people’s tennis bags, including mine. I still run drills with it then switch to lower SW racquets for match plays.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I still keep it around to play too. But when 'holics like us have 40+ sticks, it's only part of a larger rotation.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
If you read through, many people have jumped on the train and got off at another station - including OP

It’s a great frame, and it’s fun to play with. Many have just found that even though it plays big for a mid that they’re not winning as many matches and they move on.
I actually still have mine. Its still the best frame i have played in forever. But my coach basically told me to work with a bigger frame when he saw me with the yy 310 and he got me focused on hitting with more spin and higher tip speed. To be honest i do play well with this style but i played really well with the phantom 93 also. Im using the blade 18x20 now which is not a huge departure but the light static weight obviously suits a heavy spin game better. And playing the way he has me ( lots of running around bhs and hitting fhs) in florida heat is tough. With the phantom i played a more balanced style and it does work, just doesn’t maximize my weapons. I guess thats why we hire coaches. Haha

Anyway im back to carrying a phantom in the bag and ill still play a match with it no problem. Its a special frame to me at least. Once i really settle into this new style of attacking i will use the phantom more often. Its too fun not to.
 

hurworld

Hall of Fame
I still keep it around to play too. But when 'holics like us have 40+ sticks, it's only part of a larger rotation.
Haha, ain’t that the truth. I don’t have that many frames yet my wife is already giving me evil eyes due to my stash.

Think I’m ready to step off the holic train or at least slow down on “long term demo”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
If you read through, many people have jumped on the train and got off at another station - including OP

It’s a great frame, and it’s fun to play with. Many have just found that even though it plays big for a mid that they’re not winning as many matches and they move on.
Pretty sure that's not why people move on. It's likely the normal gear head addiction of the "next big thing". People naturally get bored with same old same old. They'll use the excuse of "I need something more forgiving," but it's largely rationalization. Because they'll try something more forgiving and 6 months later be saying, "I need something with more control/feel."

I'll never remove it from my bag since it's easily the best racquet I have for hitting a FH. For that reason alone its great to for hitting sessions.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Pretty sure that's not why people move on. It's likely the normal gear head addiction of the "next big thing". People naturally get bored with same old same old. They'll use the excuse of "I need something more forgiving," but it's largely rationalization. Because they'll try something more forgiving and 6 months later be saying, "I need something with more control/feel."

I'll never remove it from my bag since it's easily the best racquet I have for hitting a FH. For that reason alone its great to for hitting sessions.
Truth for sure. I mean, damn I played with this frame with the same brand of strings and same tension for 14 months straight. On TT, that is a lifetime.

The only thing I did want after that was a lighter frame so I could get higher tip speed. But of course I missed the solid feel and plow of the Phantom. Can’t have it all. The new Blade is the best alternative I have tried so far, and I am off the demo train thankfully (still carrying the P93s tho).
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Truth for sure. I mean, damn I played with this frame with the same brand of strings and same tension for 14 months straight. On TT, that is a lifetime.

The only thing I did want after that was a lighter frame so I could get higher tip speed. But of course I missed the solid feel and plow of the Phantom. Can’t have it all. The new Blade is the best alternative I have tried so far, and I am off the demo train thankfully (still carrying the P93s tho).
The simple fact is that every stroke is different and will perform best with a racquet specifically designed for the stroke. But unlike golf, where you can always use the right tool for the shot, you can't switch racquets on every shot. So there never will be a perfect racquet. Compromises will have to be made.

Playing tennis is kind of like playing an entire round of golf with one club. If it's the driver, you'll be great off the tee, suck with approach shots and chips but be competent putting. If its a 7 iron, you'll be mediocre off the tee, good with approaches and chips but suck putting. Similar issue with tennis as not every racquet does every shot well.

I know my best FH's come off the 93P so theoretically if I'm min-maxing my tennis performance the 93P should be the racket I use when I'm facing a pusher. I'll able to punish his serves with FH returns, I'll have lots of time to setup so I won't need extra forgiveness, I can play an attacking game to finish points, I can hit through the court better to reduce his speed advantage. Whereas if I'm playing a big hitter, I should pull out my POG 107 which is by far my best "pace redirection" racquet.

But generally I just pull out whichever frame I feel like using and not worry about it that much.
 
I actually still have mine. Its still the best frame i have played in forever. But my coach basically told me to work with a bigger frame when he saw me with the yy 310 and he got me focused on hitting with more spin and higher tip speed. To be honest i do play well with this style but i played really well with the phantom 93 also. Im using the blade 18x20 now which is not a huge departure but the light static weight obviously suits a heavy spin game better. And playing the way he has me ( lots of running around bhs and hitting fhs) in florida heat is tough. With the phantom i played a more balanced style and it does work, just doesn’t maximize my weapons. I guess thats why we hire coaches. Haha

Anyway im back to carrying a phantom in the bag and ill still play a match with it no problem. Its a special frame to me at least. Once i really settle into this new style of attacking i will use the phantom more often. Its too fun not to.
Sad to know that "Power player" the first to open so many eyes on this stick, decided to move on. Coaches want more spin, yeah, that's everyone wants those days. Btw, did you try the 14x18 if you want spinnier weapon ? I read you wanted larger headsize but just to hear if you liked it.

Did you see Medvedev hitting ? Spin becomes a old fashion !!
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Sad to know that "Power player" the first to open so many eyes on this stick, decided to move on. Coaches want more spin, yeah, that's everyone wants those days. Btw, did you try the 14x18 if you want spinnier weapon ? I read you wanted larger headsize but just to hear if you liked it.

Did you see Medvedev hitting ? Spin becomes a old fashion !!
Well i used it today for a bit. Its still in my bag. I really love the frame but i prefer tighter patterns. Thats why i just went with a lighter, bigger frame that still was similar in the Blade. I never liked the open patterns in prince frames as much for some reason.
 

wevin

New User
And for poly/gut, can you keep it until it breaks or you have to cut it like a full poly at 20h max ?
I still have my Klip Legend 17g M and Yonex Poly Fire 17g X after at least 15hrs. My wrist is starting to hurt but have not seen any reduction in playability. Originally strung at 48M/40X and the mains are gliding on the Fire so well. The gut is only now starting to fray with little notching on the mains. No notching on crosses. Looks like I could get at least 15 more hours out of these strings. But I am wondering if the wrist pain is from the poly Fire cross going dead.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Been playing with my POG107 lately because it seemed easier on my arm with a recent case of GE. Decided to string the 93P with Origin/Velocity at 52/48. Was quite comfortable and played pretty well.

Played a set of singles with a friend. Went down 0-2 as I was getting the hang of both the switch to a mid from an OS frame as well as the O/V string job. But then I got dialled in especially with the FH and win the next 6 games pretty easily.

My opponent noted I was off my game early but “then you just wouldn’t miss with the FHs deep in the corner”. He tried to bring me into the net but my doubles experience made me happy to oblige and win the points from there.

I will admit you do have to focus a bit more with the 93p but it is a perfect attackers frame. You can dictate points by precision and depth and then hit through the court with ease.

I also was impressed with the O/V in the frame. I thought it might be too low on spin but that really wasn’t an issue. I was getting more spin than my friend using a Wilson Ultra with poly.
 

Boubi

Rookie
When the game is getting faster it's impossible to play with that frame, it also plays short. I admit it's great (if not the best) on return though
 
When the game is getting faster it's impossible to play with that frame, it also plays short. I admit it's great (if not the best) on return though
I agree we can have the feeling of playing short, sometimes i feel like to when late. But did you try to adding weight at 12 or play with natural gut ? Because, saying "playing" short depends on many things. If you play stock form with 4G at 60lbs, sure it will be short but for a reason. Just curious if you still play short with that frame powered up (like low tension or whatever). To me there is a good compromise to find and i'm not sure exactly but 360g 343 sw with rs lyon 1.20 at 44lbs, overall, i can't say it plays short at every shot.
 

Boubi

Rookie
I agree we can have the feeling of playing short, sometimes i feel like to when late. But did you try to adding weight at 12 or play with natural gut ? Because, saying "playing" short depends on many things. If you play stock form with 4G at 60lbs, sure it will be short but for a reason. Just curious if you still play short with that frame powered up (like low tension or whatever). To me there is a good compromise to find and i'm not sure exactly but 360g 343 sw with rs lyon 1.20 at 44lbs, overall, i can't say it plays short at every shot.
In fact I demoed it along with the RF97, same strings (revolve 17) and possibly (unverified) same tension; I would rate the tension to 25 kgs (most players dont feel the difference between 20 and 25 kgs)
As I never customize my racquet, it was obvious the RF 97 was more stable and better at net (it's really outstanding). Not as easy to use though in the back of the court
On returns of serve, both were good but 93P was exceptional
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
When the game is getting faster it's impossible to play with that frame, it also plays short. I admit it's great (if not the best) on return though
I think when the opponent hits higher pace then you are used to and you are resorting to pushing to survive, then a 93P is probably not the best choice. When you are dictating play and hitting it harder than they are used to, the 93P is perfect for controlling a point.

Depth is a result of finding the right string for the racquet's power level. 93P is a low powered player's control frame. If you don't have the innate swing power to get depth then you can add depth by lowering the string tension and using thinner gauge strings. 17g gut with 19g poly crosses at 50/44 would be crazy to try in a Pure Drive but works very well at getting my depth with 93P and the best thing is I can still control the location.
 

Boubi

Rookie
I think when the opponent hits higher pace then you are used to and you are resorting to pushing to survive, then a 93P is probably not the best choice. When you are dictating play and hitting it harder than they are used to, the 93P is perfect for controlling a point.

Depth is a result of finding the right string for the racquet's power level. 93P is a low powered player's control frame. If you don't have the innate swing power to get depth then you can add depth by lowering the string tension and using thinner gauge strings. 17g gut with 19g poly crosses at 50/44 would be crazy to try in a Pure Drive but works very well at getting my depth with 93P and the best thing is I can still control the location.
If the level is 4 or 5 this racquet is enough but not higher
 
If the level is 4 or 5 this racquet is enough but not higher
I thought you were someone interesting to debate with but it seems like i was wrong. I won at 6.0 with and i don't put myself in the great player list. I would like to see it in the right hands. Nowadays, people are too afraid about 600 racquets. I'm pretty sure it kills some minds before trying it, buy hey, any racquet can play higher than 4 or 5.
 

Classic-TXP-IG MID

Hall of Fame
I think when the opponent hits higher pace then you are used to and you are resorting to pushing to survive, then a 93P is probably not the best choice. When you are dictating play and hitting it harder than they are used to, the 93P is perfect for controlling a point.

Depth is a result of finding the right string for the racquet's power level. 93P is a low powered player's control frame. If you don't have the innate swing power to get depth then you can add depth by lowering the string tension and using thinner gauge strings. 17g gut with 19g poly crosses at 50/44 would be crazy to try in a Pure Drive but works very well at getting my depth with 93P and the best thing is I can still control the location.
Depth is also a function of technique and length of stroke (contact point), as well as what you have outlined. If the person is making contact with the ball slightly late and is more on the back foot (with less body weight in the shot - not moving forward and through the ball), the ball will inevitably fall short in the court and allow the opponent to further dictate the point.

There is a video that Agassi did as a promo for Head (I think), where he discussed the importance of contacting the ball at the front and then extending the contact through the ball, and how important that extra extension is to the weight of your shot and the depth. Not to mention, taking time away from your opponent and dictating the point.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
If the level is 4 or 5 this racquet is enough but not higher
So you are saying that in their primes Pete Sampras and Ivan Lendl couldn't beat a modern 5.5 player using a Pure Aero?

It wasn't the racquet frame size that changed tennis, it was the polyester strings.

People are just so enamored with Nadal level topspin that they think its the only way to play. But there are pros winning with flatter shots like Del Potro. And to counter a lot of the topspin baseliners, you are seeing resurgence of slice and drop shots (all of which are easier to hit with frames like the 93P).

While I doubt we ever see pros dropping frame sizes to 93P levels again, plenty are still making a living with 95 sq in frames that are no wider than the 93P. Plenty of 4.5-5.0 senior level players using PS90's and 6.1 95's at our club too.

93P is good enough for anyone not making a living at tennis. At every other level there is always someone better than you and always someone worse than you. You win based on whether you are playing the better player or the worse player, not based on your racquet.

It comes down to feel and playstyle. If you like controlling points, being aggressive all over the court, playing a mix of finesse and pace, it's a good racquet. If you like standing 6 feet behind the baseline hitting loopy topspin groundies until someone misses, there are plenty of more fun racquets out there for that style.
 
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