The Prince Phantom 93P is a gift to us from TW - My Review/AMA

Man, Prince is really putting out some excellent sticks these days. It's a shame not more people are using the Phantom because it deserves much more love and recognition. I have yet to see anybody use a Phantom at my home court - I see mostly PDs, a good number of Pure Strikes, and even Head Graphene Prestiges :(
 

flanker2000fr

Professional
Man, Prince is really putting out some excellent sticks these days. It's a shame not more people are using the Phantom because it deserves much more love and recognition. I have yet to see anybody use a Phantom at my home court - I see mostly PDs, a good number of Pure Strikes, and even Head Graphene Prestiges :(
Yes, it's a real shame more people don't play those frames. I recently swung by my parents in France, and had a coaching session with a guy I've known for 30 years, but hadn't seen him in many, many years. At the end of the session, we talked gear. He still plays some older versions of the Head Prestige, and his eyes lit up when he saw my Phantom 93P. He went something like: "Ahhh, Prince! Wonderful sticks, top grade racquets. We don't see many of them these days, unfortunately".
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
If Prince had the marketing budget to sign bigger names pro players, what do they have that can be used as a pro stock base? The 93P is a solid stick, but 93" isn't going to work for many of the pros who are used to larger head sizes. The 97P seems like it could be a good base mold to use along with whatever Pouile and Isner really uses. I'm sure those frames are loaded with quality high modulus graphite (layup).
 

stephenclown

Professional
If Prince had the marketing budget to sign bigger names pro players, what do they have that can be used as a pro stock base? The 93P is a solid stick, but 93" isn't going to work for many of the pros who are used to larger head sizes. The 97P seems like it could be a good base mold to use along with whatever Pouile and Isner really uses. I'm sure those frames are loaded with quality high modulus graphite (layup).
I read on here in the last couple days that Prince made their tour players play current gen frames with the introduction of the textreme line. Shows that Prince are willing to stick by their technology though rather than the rubbish in HEAD frames or the Countervail in Wilson.

You can clearly see the Twaron on the throat of Isner's racquet so he is likely playing with the latest model. Pouille has the Twaron in the throat as well so he is likely also using the latest 100P. I would guess the textremes and beasts would be more likely to have more players than the Phantom line for ease of play at the top level. There was a Japanese junior player using the Ported 100 (Japan version) at the Aus Open this year but he looks to have moved to a Blade at Wimbledon juniors. If top juniors can use them then I think the ported frames still have a very strong case for play in higher levels. This is a time when Prince aren't sponsoring much at all so its good to see them getting back into it. His name is Shunsuke Mitsui and peaked at ITF junior rank 10 earlier this year.




The 97P looks very interesting, as does the thicker beam phantom and the new ported one with Twaron at 2 & 10 and also in the throat. You can see them on the Japan store for release in November.
 
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stephenclown

Professional
Does anyone know when we can buy the 97P in the US and know definitively know the RA? @nextman said his was 59RA. I'm hoping his was on the high side and it's lower, but I doubt it. Prince seems to have settled on the 59-61RA range for all their players frames. They were cutting edge with their PP100s being in the mid 50s, but that might have just been an experiment.
Jster original leaks said 57Ra

 

Binatang

New User
I saw new demo Phantom at my local distributor called X Series. 4 models. All 100sqi thin beam with twaron at throat & 10 + 2 (ATS).

100X O3 310g PL775
100X 18x20 320g PL725
100X 305g PL750
100X 290g PL775


 
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jonestim

Hall of Fame
Mixed feelings about the 100X Phantoms - They probably play great because just about every Prince I have hit with in the last couple years has. But are they putting out too much?

Phantom: 7 models, including box beams and rounder, and O ports
Phantom X : 4 models

That's 13 Phantoms.

Do they have the marketing budget to differentiate them?
 

stephenclown

Professional
A stringer on FB has noted 6 new frames released in the next 22 hours or so. 16x18 and 18x20, has to be prince hopefully???

Although potentially yonex I guess. They said not mentioned on popular forum? I am just hoping... they are usually pretty cryptic and sneaky so we will see soon :)

Edit* after thinking about it may not be as obvious to those outside this thread as there hasn't been a new thread really made about them yet. High hopes for it to come soon!
 
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Addxyz

Semi-Pro
Damn there were Phantoms there too? Late to the party. Beasts are good too. This is a very nice deal with the Halloween discount on top. Thanks @TW Staff (y)
Yeah, the first day all the Phantoms were included. Not sure if they met their quota or if they were added by mistake. Definitely a good price, similar to their July 4th sale. Picked up 3 more 93P then.
 

Jster

Professional
A stringer on FB has noted 6 new frames released in the next 22 hours or so. 16x18 and 18x20, has to be prince hopefully???

Although potentially yonex I guess. They said not mentioned on popular forum? I am just hoping... they are usually pretty cryptic and sneaky so we will see soon :)

Edit* after thinking about it may not be as obvious to those outside this thread as there hasn't been a new thread really made about them yet. High hopes for it to come soon!
Not as quick as sg.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
I hope they release the 97P first. The 97" head and 57RA is what I've been wanting the 93P to be all these years. Slightly bigger and slightly softer. My only wish not fulfilled by Prince was the string pattern. I'm not a big topspin player and would have preferred an open patterned 18x20 like the 93P. I guess a dense patterned 16x18 is the next best thing. It would at least allow me to use thicker gauge strings. Is the 97P box beamed? Aren't all the 'P' models box beamed? I like traditional box beam's feel.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
Will there really be a new-new 93P and 100P? They were just released last year or maybe it was this year. The 93P 14x18 and 100P 18x20. If there will be updated versions I'm guessing the same frames with Textreme and Twaron to stiffen them up. I'd be gleefully delighted if they actually softened them.
 

Addxyz

Semi-Pro
Will there really be a new-new 93P and 100P? They were just released last year or maybe it was this year. The 93P 14x18 and 100P 18x20. If there will be updated versions I'm guessing the same frames with Textreme and Twaron to stiffen them up. I'd be gleefully delighted if they actually softened them.
I thought the 14x18 was released in the Spring of this year and 18x20 was spring of last year ('18).
 

stephenclown

Professional
Twaron is much less stiff than graphite... Aramid fibers absorb impact, hence their use in tennis frames. Because of this a frame can be a little stiffer and actually be more comfortable with better feel. Look at the beast series for an example of its use.

Any of these ported or are they all going to be solid beam construction with P series as thin box beam and X as thicker rounded beam?
No ported version in Singapore :cry::cry: but there is a ported version. With stability at 2 and 10 it should potentially increase power, dwell time and feel over the previous model I hope. Same power level but not sure how Prince really calculate it, can get insane power from the 93P so I'm not worried.

Now I'm going to have to wait or grab a 97P
 
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Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
Twaron is much less stiff than graphite... Aramid fibers absorb impact, hence their use in tennis frames. Because of this a frame can be a little stiffer and actually be more comfortable with better feel. Look at the beast series for an example of its use.
Is Twaron or graphite more expensive? I'd imagine Twaron hence why it's used sparingly in select locations on the frame over the old Head frames that had it throughout the entire frame. I wonder if the Head pro stocks still use plenty of Twaron in the layup or it's some modern formula.
 

stephenclown

Professional
Is Twaron or graphite more expensive? I'd imagine Twaron hence why it's used sparingly in select locations on the frame over the old Head frames that had it throughout the entire frame. I wonder if the Head pro stocks still use plenty of Twaron in the layup or it's some modern formula.
I'd guess Twaron which is why it, kevlar and other aramids are rarely used in frames these days. Instead they use cheaper alternatives like basalt or pencil shavings in HEAD frames (real graphene withcosts actual applications costs a lot).

Sorry guys, January release for the west it looks like. 2 months wait :(
 

Automatix

Hall of Fame
Sorry guys, January release for the west it looks like. 2 months wait :(
My only gripe at this stage with the 97P is the string pattern - would prefer a 16x19 or a 16x20 - I hope RQ will give info about it's true headsize (love the scientific approach of mr Gugel).

Not to derail but if Wilson decides to release an open pattern Ultra Tour, addresses some of the issues and adds a sprinkle of that FreeFlex magic then I won't be surprised if UT v2.0 blows the 97P away.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
My only gripe at this stage with the 97P is the string pattern - would prefer a 16x19 or a 16x20 - I hope RQ will give info about it's true headsize (love the scientific approach of mr Gugel).

Not to derail but if Wilson decides to release an open pattern Ultra Tour, addresses some of the issues and adds a sprinkle of that FreeFlex magic then I won't be surprised if UT v2.0 blows the 97P away.
I'm with you on the 97P's string pattern. I'd have preferred an open 18x20 like the middle brother version of the 93P and the 100P 18x20 the big brother. For some reason Prince hasn't gone 16x19 for a while. It's always 16x18 for some reason, maybe because the Prince hoop shape is more round than oval.

There's one weird thing about the 93P with me. I was wondering if anyone has experienced golfer's elbow on their weak arm from a 2HBH? I'm a natural one hander and the 2HBH is weird to me, but I've been practicing it and I'm probably doing something wrong.
 

Rock-solid

New User
Will there really be a new-new 93P and 100P? They were just released last year or maybe it was this year.
The 2020 93P is really new as my short comment earlier indicated (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/the-prince-phantom-93p-is-a-gift-to-us-from-tw-my-review-ama.612334/post-13842094). Even though the specs are identical, the Twaron at 10 and 2 makes it feel stiffer and different in my opinion. I don't think the 93P needed any extra stabilization as it was already a 18x20 pattern, I preferred its noodle like feel over something stiffer. However, when I took the 2020 93P back to the store to exchange it for an old 93P the shop still had the new 97P that they previously told me they had sold, so I bought it. I figured if I did not like it I could sell it to one of you guys that are all waiting for it. My first hit yesterday was extremely positive, the Twaron at 10 and 2 for the 97P works very well to create a superbly stable and easy on the arm racquet. I will post something after I hit with it a few more times this weekend.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
@Rock-solid does the 97P flex at the throat or at the hoop and does the 16x18 string pattern look dense? I don't like high launch angles because I don't hit full western. I'm also like you in that I like the 93P to be noodle like and in fact I think the original 93P is still too stiff for my tastes at 61RA.

Does the 97P feel noticeably softer? I really like the feel of the frame bending at the throat where I can hold onto the ball for a split second longer for added control. I'm a baseliner so throat flex works for me. I don't go up to the net often and don't like the hoop flexing on me.
 

Rock-solid

New User
OK, so this is my one session synopsis of the 97P, if anything changes the next time I play I will post it. I used the 97P in stock form and it played softer than my old 93P. After one set with the 97P I switched back to my old 93P and the 93P felt much stiffer to my arm. It appears that the reports of a 57RA for the 97P are true. I have almost the same string set up on both, the 93P with 16g tonic gut on mains and YPTF 17g at 46/43, while I strung the 97P a little tighter because of the higher power rating, same strings at 50/46. My groundstrokes felt fantastic, very plush, good power and very very stable. Forehand, backhand, slice all worked extremely well. I felt that I could do no wrong even when my technique was not the best, very forgiving. Launch angle was a little higher, I hit pretty flat but even so the groundies went over the net with more clearance than with the 93P. Groundstrokes had more power to them, however, instead of going long they often dipped back down at the last second and in the court. Volleys and overheads worked well but felt a little different than the 93P, probably due to being more head heavy. Serves were a bit of a problem, kick serve worked beautifully with lots of spin, but my flat serve sometimes felt underpowered and other times felt great. I think serving issues could be due to the fact that the 97P being slightly more head heavy and also about 10 grams lighter than my 93P. These differences probably caused some off centre hits and I am sure with some more playing time I will be able to adjust. I am going to add a leather grip to bump up the weight a bit and make it more head light, closer to the 93P. Speaking of off centre hits, I don't think that I hit too many at 9 and 3, probably more at 12, however, my off centre hits typically went over the net anyway, just with less power and they were less jarring on my arm than off centre hits with the 93P. The 97P felt very stable for such an open string pattern, it seemed to have the best of both worlds, the spin of an open pattern and the control and stability of a 18x20. I demoed a lot of 18x20 racquets this summer, Head Gravity Pro, Yonex Vcore 97 HD, and I ended up with the 93P as the best in terms of control, stability and comfort. I am a 4.5 player who likes to get to the net as soon as possible in singles, I don't have a big serve so I have to bide my time at the baseline and wait for the right opportunity. Even though I prefer 18x20 racquets the 97P has turned out to be a very pleasant surprise and I am hoping to get even more dialled in with it.
 

stephenclown

Professional
That's excellent news, the 93P is an exceptional frame but can be tiring after swinging for 3 hours.

Going to keep 2 of the 93P for when I get some things sorted out but will probably just get the 97P to transition into.

May just end up with a room full of phantoms.....

@Dartagnan64 with the stability in the upper hoop I would be surprised if the new ported 100 isn't even better given the feedback above. It was already my second favourite after the 93 so it will likely be a step in the right direction to enhance the benefits from the ports
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
@Rock-solid thanks for your initial review. Could you please also comment on where the frame tends to flex on ball impact? The hoop, the throat, or overall along the entire length of the frame?
 

Rock-solid

New User
@Rock-solid thanks for your initial review. Could you please also comment on where the frame tends to flex on ball impact? The hoop, the throat, or overall along the entire length of the frame?
I still have only played once with the 97P, will play more today, but I would say it is firmer at the top of the hoop and more flexible at the throat.

@Binatang, I am not very technically inclined so at this point I am not willing to take my new racquet apart.

Cheers
 
I still have only played once with the 97P, will play more today, but I would say it is firmer at the top of the hoop and more flexible at the throat.

@Binatang, I am not very technically inclined so at this point I am not willing to take my new racquet apart.

Cheers
There should be a trap door with an indent that's actually designed to pop off and on again. All you have to do is insert a nail or something similar into the indent to lift the door off, and then it just pops back into place once you want to put it back on.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
There should be a trap door with an indent that's actually designed to pop off and on again. All you have to do is insert a nail or something similar into the indent to lift the door off, and then it just pops back into place once you want to put it back on.
Use something soft that won't scratch or mar the plastic trap door. Try using the cap of a Bic pen.
 

rd0707

Rookie
I agree with Rock solid review. Seems to be very smooth on ground strokes. I hit for an hour or so with 97P and enjoyed the extra weight it carried. After I used my 100P after and it felt so light LOL. I need to put my normal strings in the 97P to get a true comparison.
 

stephenclown

Professional
Oh they purged the thread of all of the 97P stuff. Probably is unfair to the owner of the forum when exact prices were posted from a competitor when they are unable to sell.

Just curious, what is the actual headsize of the 93? Is it really 93?
From what I can tell, yes. But it is short top to bottom in the hoop and wider. Therefore it still has pretty good forgiveness and plays very similarly to a 95" head. Similar width to most 97-98" frames.



Back to the 93P string experiments

Redistributed the lead under the bumper to be more around 12, small amount of double layered tape at 12. Less overall to hopefully increase manoeuvrability a slight amount. Strung up with Poly Tour Pro 1.20 at 46lbs for less overall weight as well. Will provide feedback on how this string performs, I have very high expectations after how well PTP plays for its price - one of the best price/performance on the market

Feedback on a few strings I have tried recently:

Tier One Ghostwire - tried this string from 35 to 46 lbs and between 1.22 and 1.27 thickness (4 sets overall, 1 used in hybrid). I also tried out 1.10 but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Feedback was inconsistent, it felt dead rather than plush. When it was strung in the mid 40s it lacked pocketing and feel. Strung mid 30s it had bad vibrations and an inconsistent sweet spot, erratic behaviour and lost complete confidence in my racquet. I prefer this greatly in a gut hybrid as it masks the feel of the poly but I still replaced the crosses for something more consistent. Power wise it was ample, okay directional control - 1.27 was better overall. 1.22 was messy. Not sure why I dislike white strings, might be a feel issue due to the pigments used?

Isospeed cream - used the wrong tension for this string in the high 30's. Nothing special down there, felt laboured hitting the ball and inconsistent overall, vibration response was poor. Felt better than Ghostwire but for me I can't think of a string I liked less - except for Wilson Revolve. Maybe clashing with the feel of the 93P as well, not easily available in Australia so not going to bother using it again.

Solstice Power 1.20 @ 42lbs. Back to something I have used a lot of in the past - brings back the same memories of good power, firmer feel, great control. Feel is the main drawback I have found on this string, compared to my favourite PTP 1.25 it is less plush. Spin is great, launch angle nice and neutral and overall seems to be a consistent response around the stringbed. Overall a nice tick for this string in the 93P. Still prefer this string in something extremely solid like the TC97 18x20 to enhance the pocketing of the string and improve feel as that frame bludgeons the ball more than working it - like the 93P. Longevity probably not going to be good, shape usually wears very quickly.

More strings to come as I look to see if PTP reels are the way to go. Hopefully get to try PTP 1.20, Signum Pro Firestorm, Hyper G, PLE, Prince Vortex all a fair bit to see which has the best performance
 

stephenclown

Professional
Prince Vortex is an awesome string for the 1 hour it holds tension. If it held tension at all it would be amazing
Yep, issues in the past with a lot of shaped strings so I didn't bother actually buying it. Maybe will go back and look at it in the future at some stage. Solstice power is my favourite shaped string and it still has pretty poor feel compared to most round polys.

Ended up ordering BB Alu Power (purple), BBO, signum pro firestorm, Toalson HD Aster and Toalson Profocus. 2 sets of each. BBO/Aster most likely just for the 97P due to their gauge. Really keen to try out firestorm, alu and profocus in the 93P.

Put normal alu in my 97P and its incredible how good this string is and it grips the ball so well. All great except a couple hours of doubles and its already notched at 40lbs...
 
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