Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Yeah I'm learning that going lower tensions than I'm used to helps with spin generation and ball pocketing without compromising precision.
The Prince Phantom 93P is a gift to us from TW - My Review/AMA
- Thread starter Power Player
- Start date
Yeah I'm learning that going lower tensions than I'm used to helps with spin generation and ball pocketing without compromising precision.
tim-ay
Legend
Yep. I’m surprised I can go as low as this but it really is great. I no longer think I’m losing any depth or spin. Not much anyway. And you really have more options with slice and touch. I am a little worried about using this against certain types of players on har-tru, but I’ll just have to learn how to adapt.
I was a little slow getting on the band wagon, but I’m there now
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ohiostate124
Professional
What tension would you guys recommend for full natty gut? I’m currently using ps85s with full gut usually between 40-45 which feels great.
Anton
Legend
Full ngut? We don't mess with that.
PS85 is a little more open, so as a rule thumb in 93P you want thinner, lower tension stringjob for it to feel similar. 17g is max thickness for 93P
Good luck.
TennisHound
Legend
Interesting comparison since they are both about the same weight. The 93P doesn't feel as light in the upper part of the head like the Volkl, and its got boatloads more control. The Volkl feels like a big paddle at times; 93P never has that feel. The 93P beam is thinner thus giving it a more dense and solid feel than the Volkl. The 93P feels heavier than it is, while the Volkl feels lighter than it is. 93P has control everywhere, while the Volkl will send balls flying if the string is not tight enough (most apparent on approach shots or short balls).
EKTiger
Rookie
Nice comparison.
Today I received 2 VCT 89, strung them up and just from hitting on the wall I was amazed by these sticks. More feel, stability and maneuverability than Tour G 330. I was wondering if the phantom 93p stack up to these bad boys.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
For Gut in a full bed I'd string it around 50-52. For Gut in a hybrid I'd go 52-54 depending on how slippery the cross string was.
TennisHound
Legend
The 93P proves that you don't need a larger headed racquet for appropriate power.
ohiostate124
Professional
Wow. My demo just came in. Haven’t had a chance to play with it yet but it’s a beautiful racket. Love the green. Love the extremely thin beam. I appreciate the stock leather grip as well. Can’t wait to try it out. Seems like it could be a worthy replacement to the ps85.
flanker2000fr
Hall of Fame
It's beautiful indeed. Makes you wonder why some other manufacturers turn their racquets into a complete dog's breakfast. Chose one primary colour, put just a few accents, et voila!
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
The 93P is the tennis equivalent of the little black dress. Simple, stylish, works for most occasions. Some other paint jobs are like an old tie dye T-shirt.
ohiostate124
Professional
Is it hollow underneath the butt cap for everyone else?
flanker2000fr
Hall of Fame
Mine is.
ohiostate124
Professional
Holy crap. Just got back from trying the demo for the first time. You guys that said it had really easy power weren’t kidding. Just effortless depth once I got it under control. I’ve been struggling with my slice backhand too but it was really working with this racket. I’m kInda scared to see what it would be like with full gut like I usually play with.
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Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Love slicing with this racket. Gone are the floaty slices of my 100 Sq in 16x19 string bed days, In are these low skipping penetrating slices with the 93P.
I think the racket would be fine with full gut once you dial in the tension. I'm using Origin/Velocity and have no problem with control and power with those strings despite being higher on the power scale than poly.
ohiostate124
Professional
I usually like full gut with a pretty low tension. 40-45 in my ps85 feels great. I’m thinking I might try it out at 50 if I pull the trigger on one of these like you recommended.
Anton
Legend
...why are you increasing tension? Ps85 has more open stringpatern.
ohiostate124
Professional
The 85 is a more open pattern but it’s a smaller head. I play a pretty flat, old school game so I figure, if I go full gut, I don’t need any more power. The demo was also in the lower 50s which played great so I’m thinking I’ll start at 50 and adjust from there.
Anton
Legend
When I say "more open stringbed" I'm already adjusting for head size. Basically the weave squares are a bit bigger on PS85 and it will play slightly more open at same tension as 93P.
ohiostate124
Professional
Alright. Testing it out one more time before I make up my mind for good but I already know which way I’m leaning. Might have to sell off the Federer collection and buy a few.
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tim-ay
Legend
2nd 93p arrived today. It is 352 grams strung , before putting on an overgrip. About 7 grams above the weight of my first one. I’m going to hit with it tonight before trying to match these up ... maybe this explains some of the thiny-ness (?) I felt before lead on my first one. I’ll check balance later. Sure doesn’t leave much room if balance is an issue, that’s a beastie weight
tim-ay
Legend
Hit with the 357 gram w/ overgrip 2nd racket tonight. Cyclone strung @42. Wow. Definitely liked this set up. I’m going to play a match tomorrow night And will use this racket, no mods needed. If it feels anywhere close to how it did tonight, this will be what I match the other one to.
I’m really amazed how much more solid this one feels. The first one has some flutter near the head , before lead anyway. Not this one. Rock solid. I was really dialed in tonight, so I need to see what happens in a match on a slightly off night.
My hitting partner tonight couldn’t believe how the ball was jumping. Funny thing was that I also would step in and drive the ball on shots he didn’t get to feel. Haha.
A little concerned about how different these two rackets are in the top half of the head..., so I’m hoping I can match them up closer over the next few days. Anyone else have anything like a 7gram difference between two of the 93p’s?
I’m really amazed how much more solid this one feels. The first one has some flutter near the head , before lead anyway. Not this one. Rock solid. I was really dialed in tonight, so I need to see what happens in a match on a slightly off night.
My hitting partner tonight couldn’t believe how the ball was jumping. Funny thing was that I also would step in and drive the ball on shots he didn’t get to feel. Haha.
A little concerned about how different these two rackets are in the top half of the head..., so I’m hoping I can match them up closer over the next few days. Anyone else have anything like a 7gram difference between two of the 93p’s?
My second one ended up being around similar weight difference, except it was ~5 grams lighter.
tim-ay
Legend
Cool, thanks. I’ll change the lead around on the first to match up to the second. Damn- am going to have to do SW calculations because I love how this second one feels and I suspect SW is a bit heavier.
stephenclown
Professional
Good choice, gut is comfortable no matter the tension and power should be comparable due to the nature of the string. I wonder what it would play like in the 93P. Only frame I played full gut was the Angell TC90 and it was sublime but average with poly so it went.
ohiostate124
Professional
Hmm, interesting. I’ve been contemplating trying a tc90 with full gut for a long time. Maybe one day. I think the 93p has won me over.
stephenclown
Professional
I prefer the Prince 93P to be honest, it is an exceptional frame with more feel and control. The TC90 is nearly as good but if it was lower stiffness (63RA) I would probably still own the frame even if it wasn't my main frame. It was actually really good with poly for performance, just that I have a bad wrist so comfort was not good enough. It is my favourite Angell by far as the pattern is perfect for their power level and response (for me). 16x19 TC95 is missing control, launch angle too high and feel and 18x20 TC97 was missing a bit of comfort and manoeuvrability. The TC90 is also the best serving frame I have ever used, it is incredible overhead and at the net.
I haven't played the 93P in full gut so I am comparing with poly. TC90 with full gut is maybe better than the 93P with full poly for overall playability but worse on forehand for my stroke.
This is when I played the TC90 strung with full gut. It really is a great frame, forgive the poor footwork and effort. Stroke is more flattened out due to the gut in the frame.
My ranking of frames I have used for any length of time in recent memory is:
Prince Phantom 93P (18x20 93)
Babolat Pure Storm Ltd (my original 18x20 95" that got me addicted to dense control patterns and players frames)
Angell TC90
Wilson RF97 (if not in gut hybrid Angell is above)
Angell TC97 18x20
Angell TC95 16x19
Babolat Pure Aero - clumsy and stiff and so far below the TC95 that it shouldn't even be on the same page
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Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I think part of your answer lies in posts #1323 and #1324 ... But I'm sure there are others that have gotten ones close to or at same weight and balance as well.
rh310
Hall of Fame
Thanks -- I was on page 18 of the thread, reading through it from page 1. I finally just bailed and posted the question.
So I'll call the order in and request matching. May as well order two I guess.
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
It plays nothing like the Ultra Tour. The UT is less maneuverable despite the lower weight. It's also a little bit stiffer and probably more stable.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Thanks -- I was on page 18 of the thread, reading through it from page 1. I finally just bailed and posted the question.
So I'll call the order in and request matching. May as well order two I guess.
I know what you mean... I feel pity for anyone who stumbles across the Angell thread and attempts to read through it and catch up to current posts... monster thread. Hard to fathom so much stuff can be written about any one thing.
Alekok1221
Rookie
Hola, quiero a alguien que este dispuesto a cambiar 1 o 2 phantom 93p o 100p por 3 pro staff 97s non countervail 2017?
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
I haven't hit 93P but I have TC95 18x20 63RA and UT and those two do not play similar. The TC95 has a much beefier feel, packs more of a punch, less manuverable, more stable. UT feels lighter, more maneuverable less stable and does not pack a punch. I'd say TC97 18x20 plays between the TC95 and UT.
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
Tendrás mejor suerte publicando esto en el foro de venta o comercio.
ohiostate124
Professional
Pulled the trigger. Should get here Monday. If I sell off some of my others I might have get 1 or 2 more. I kinda feel like Fed leaving Nike lol.
tim-ay
Legend
I strung one of mine with revolve spin 17 at 43. Just wanted to have the green string, no other reason. Actually it felt nice and dead, the way I like, and didn’t play much different than cyclone at 42.
I can’t get over how much I now agree with PP about this racket. I can be stubborn and dumb.... lol. It’s the engineer that’s left in me, even though I’ve tried to beat it out over years.
Low tensions, it is one sweet ride and produces plenty of pop and spin. I actually am leaving the pure drive +’s in my bag for matches. I don’t see the head size as any issue at all. Serves really pop, volleys are a joy. Groundstrokes have a ton of control and good spin.
Anyone who hasn’t tried low tension in this racket should give it a try.
Here is a pic of the revolve spin.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can’t get over how much I now agree with PP about this racket. I can be stubborn and dumb.... lol. It’s the engineer that’s left in me, even though I’ve tried to beat it out over years.
Low tensions, it is one sweet ride and produces plenty of pop and spin. I actually am leaving the pure drive +’s in my bag for matches. I don’t see the head size as any issue at all. Serves really pop, volleys are a joy. Groundstrokes have a ton of control and good spin.
Anyone who hasn’t tried low tension in this racket should give it a try.
Here is a pic of the revolve spin.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
Would the PP100 or PP100P be considered the more friendly version of the of the 93P?
Downtheline1
Rookie
I 93p is a very good racket. It encourages you to go for your shots. Control is off the charts. It excels on everything except the backhand, which is still good just not as good as with the RF97.
JOSHL
Hall of Fame
I'd say PP100P due to the box beam.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yes but its not nearly as good or plays the same. The 100p is like the ps95. Great if you like to
move the ball around the court. Not great if you want to hit through it.
Hope you’re right. I love the 93p but there are days when I simply frame too many balls (yes, user error, I know). This, I’ve ordered a 100p to try. Wish there were a Phantom 100 with an 18x20 pattern
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I have a Phantom 100. I frame just as many balls with it as my 93P. I actually counted playing a set with each.
You may be experiencing confirmation bias. You believe a 93 sq in frame may have forgiveness issues and then your brain keeps track of every time you frame a ball and gives a big "See I told you the frame size was too small." You are more likely to remember those episodes and forget the ones that occurred all the time with a 100 inch frame.
I recommend doing the count the frame shots exercise.
I just did a drill session at our club working on doubles tactics. Approach shots CC, come in and volley. The 93P was the drill session star. Wickedly accurate and powerful volleys. I also cracked a couple real nice dippers at the approaching opponent that totally baffled them. 93p can do it all.
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
The TT100P is like a Phantom 100 with an 18x20 string pattern, but is nowhere near as flexible.
On good weather days the 93P is a joy to play with, but with this heat wave and playing in triple digit temperatures, it felt so sluggish and I definitely framed more balls. I used to play with a 100" and rarely framed any balls. I don't even frame that many balls with the 93P on normal days.
I know some will say, concentrate on your footwork, keep your eye on the ball, get under the ball, step into the shot, follow through and the usual coaching advice, but we all have our physical limits, otherwise we'd all be professional tennis players. I need a racket on my off days and when conditions are unusually tough like high winds or temps.
Alekok1221
Rookie
Yes that is true i use a prince tour 100 but a friend gives me To demoing a tt 95 and a sv 95 and when i was playing i was saying in my head you cant shot out of the center for no hit with the frame and i never shot off the center in 3 hours of practice and i want phantom 93p if a men can sell me one can be good
Anton
Legend
Ha! I actually like my beefed up 93P in adverse conditions MORE.
You can stroke slower/smoother and still get quality ball, so timing is easier. Punching high ball dancing in the wind is super easy - just meet in front and 350SW plows it deep no matter where in the stringed you land.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
High temps and winds are more about your fitness then anything honestly. The Babolat makes that deep moonball style of play a lot easier, but it’s not any easier to keep the ball on the court with heavy winds.
Its crushing hot down here. I haven’t had an issue with the frame at all, but I have been working on my fitness a lot more. That’s the most important part of tennis.
mhkeuns
Hall of Fame
I have the Phantom 100 weighted up to 350 strung. It felt a bit too light before the mods but feels solid after the mod and have no problem ripping the flat shots. One of the easiest racket to swing fast and love its unique O-port system that feels great even when it’s strung with full bed of firm poly.
Looking seriously into getting a 93P, though. Just have too many mids...
jonestim
Hall of Fame
I've been playing with the 93p about 40-50% of the time since I bought it a few months ago.
It is the racquet for the game I want to play, and not for the game I often play.
Defense - and getting to every ball - is what my game is currently based around. After years of playing guys who outhit me, I usually find myself running a ton, getting pushed behind the baseline and somehow making people hit 2-3 shots that would be winners against most opponents. I usually play better against guys that go big as opposed to people that play it safe. It's not the way I want to play - I understand that I need to get an offensive game if I want to win more. It's also not fun to just get hammered at all the time. I have had matches that I have won that I feel super beat up after because all I did was run around getting back balls that were pounded at me.
The 93P makes me play offensive tennis, and if I am at all tentative I get hammered. If I am on, and hitting well I hit very well.
When hitting casually and nothing is on the line I hit very freely and I love it. This morning I was playing against one of my usual partners. I played the first set with my POG OS, and the second with the 93P. He commented that my serves had a lot more heat on them in the second set. I could go for a lot more on returns. I felt way more comfortable stepping into the court and finishing off points. In as such, I was able to take control of points and put him on the defense. That almost never happens against this guy. His serves are the biggest of anyone I have played and he hits hard. We are pretty even on our match record because my defense wins about half the time over his unforced errors. I seldom feel like I am the aggressor, but I was today and it was great.
Nerves get to me when it's a match that matters - like league - I tighten up and I just don't hit well with it. I do better in those matches with my Warrior 100. I started two league matches this year with the 93p. First set scores were 0-6 for one and 2-6 for the other. I switched to the Warrior in both. First match I won in the tiebreak, and second I lost 9-11 in the tiebreak.
I have thought about selling the 93p and going back to the Warrior full time - or the POG OS that I have 6 of. At my level I don't know if it is the best fit for me. The thing is, it is a really really fun racquet, and the best serving racquet I have used since the Graphite Longbody. It's also a super fun doubles racquet.
For now it will stay in my bag. I WANT to play the way that I have to with it. I may lose more now, but if I can figure it out I will be a better player.
For reference - I have is strung with Origin 17 / Tour XC 17L @ 48/45.
It is the racquet for the game I want to play, and not for the game I often play.
Defense - and getting to every ball - is what my game is currently based around. After years of playing guys who outhit me, I usually find myself running a ton, getting pushed behind the baseline and somehow making people hit 2-3 shots that would be winners against most opponents. I usually play better against guys that go big as opposed to people that play it safe. It's not the way I want to play - I understand that I need to get an offensive game if I want to win more. It's also not fun to just get hammered at all the time. I have had matches that I have won that I feel super beat up after because all I did was run around getting back balls that were pounded at me.
The 93P makes me play offensive tennis, and if I am at all tentative I get hammered. If I am on, and hitting well I hit very well.
When hitting casually and nothing is on the line I hit very freely and I love it. This morning I was playing against one of my usual partners. I played the first set with my POG OS, and the second with the 93P. He commented that my serves had a lot more heat on them in the second set. I could go for a lot more on returns. I felt way more comfortable stepping into the court and finishing off points. In as such, I was able to take control of points and put him on the defense. That almost never happens against this guy. His serves are the biggest of anyone I have played and he hits hard. We are pretty even on our match record because my defense wins about half the time over his unforced errors. I seldom feel like I am the aggressor, but I was today and it was great.
Nerves get to me when it's a match that matters - like league - I tighten up and I just don't hit well with it. I do better in those matches with my Warrior 100. I started two league matches this year with the 93p. First set scores were 0-6 for one and 2-6 for the other. I switched to the Warrior in both. First match I won in the tiebreak, and second I lost 9-11 in the tiebreak.
I have thought about selling the 93p and going back to the Warrior full time - or the POG OS that I have 6 of. At my level I don't know if it is the best fit for me. The thing is, it is a really really fun racquet, and the best serving racquet I have used since the Graphite Longbody. It's also a super fun doubles racquet.
For now it will stay in my bag. I WANT to play the way that I have to with it. I may lose more now, but if I can figure it out I will be a better player.
For reference - I have is strung with Origin 17 / Tour XC 17L @ 48/45.
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