Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Ok, I'm just saying... Because anytime a non-Pro Staff buttcaps is on a Pro Staff, that's kind of suspicious as it is very easy for imitators to overlook such subtle detail.
The Pro Staff Classic 6.1 mutual appreciation club
- Thread starter macattack
- Start date
Ok, I'm just saying... Because anytime a non-Pro Staff buttcaps is on a Pro Staff, that's kind of suspicious as it is very easy for imitators to overlook such subtle detail.
moon shot
Hall of Fame
Oh sure, threw me for a loop too. The 25th Anni classic has it too. I think they signify that they are not being sold as 'performance racquets' or whatever they called all the ones that now have the Sony sensor butt cap. I could see the 6.1 being sold as a collector item and KPS might have been as well at some point. 340 swingweight collector items are odd.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
I don't think the kPS88 would be a collector's item unfortunately. They made a Pro Staff but with the wrong balance.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
That's pretty close to 28". My 27-5.5/8th" and 28" skunks feel significantly different at those different lengths, that's why i was trying to find out if the psc 6.1 was ever made at exactly 28 inch.
How can you know if it is an early china compared to just a regular china version. I'm guessing the early china ones are the ones without the US patent number written on the inside of the throat?
Does anyone know if there's any difference between these psc 6.1 stretch racquets with different writing on the inside of the throat:
1/the psc 6.1 stretch with the writing on the inside of the throat that says 'for optimal playability use synthetic gut extreme string and cushion-air stretch grip', and
2/the psc 6.1 stretch with the writing on the inside of the throat that says ' for optimal playability use wilson sensation string', which also have the us patent number, and the head size written on the inside of the throat?
edit: I think I found some answers about the different versions in this thread
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moon shot
Hall of Fame
Mine has 'Pro Staff' on the throat is in the older sans-serif chunky font. Thats all I meant, it wasn't Pro Staff but Pro Staff.
Anyone know when the frames changed font?
The molding of the handle on mine is quite shoddy, but the mold may have just had debris in it. It does say 6.1 si, have listed specs, and 80/20 on the throat so if there are China made ones without those then they would be older.
If you mean the 6.2 Hammer by skunks then I'd agree, very different. That model was a dual taper beam, which I think was developed from the Profile, and was 3oz lighter, less stiff (60/40 fiberglass), slightly higher swingweight... https://web.archive.org/web/20000310014249/http://www2.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage.html?PCODE=62S
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Deleted member 3771
Guest
I meant that my shorter skunk(approx27.7/75") felt noticeably different to hold and swing for me compared the longer skunk(28") just due to the difference in length, so there would probably also be a difference in feel of a 27.7/75" psc 6.1 stretch compared to a 28" one.
According to 'big bang' from the other thread, these are at least there 4 versions/paintjobs of the psc 6.1(and maybe the same for the stretch?):
1. pro staff classic. white butt cap, fairway leather, 95 sq.in written in the hoop.made in taiwan.
2. pro staff classic 6.1 si, white buttcap, aircushioned grip, 95 sq.in written in the hoop.made in china.
3. Pro Staff Classic 6.1, white buttcap, aircushioned grip, 95 sq.in written in the hoop. made in china.
4. pro staff classic 6.1, black buttcap, aircushioned grip, midplus written in the hoop.
My 6.1 classic stretch also has that slightly angled Pro Staff font, and says 6.1si stretch on the outside of the throat), so looks like version 2.
I have also seen a photo of version 2 of the stretch, that says "pro staff classic 6.1 si", but without the angled Pro Staff font, so that's another version.
I don't know when they changed font. I thought there was only 1 version up until i read this thread.
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therecanbeonlyone
Semi-Pro
I played the 95 sq in. 6.2 Hammer skunk in juniors. I had two of them. I'm pretty sure I gave one to my dad, who lost it somehow. Need to find the other one and if I do, I'll provide measurements/specs.
1010
Rookie
pic please!
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Pics show the 2 different fonts on the 95" 'ProStaff 6.1 si stretch'. The one on the left without the angled Pro Staff font also has the little 'r' trademark sign written after the word 'ProStaff'.
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1010
Rookie
Pics show the 2 different fonts on the 95" 'ProStaff 6.1 si stretch'. The one on the left without the angled Pro Staff font also has the little 'r' trademark sign written after the word 'ProStaff'.
Without other pics I'm not sure if she should be labeled generation 2 or 3.
Call it generation 2.5 then, cause of the newer font (aka gen 3) while still marketing the SI into the racket name. At some point later that SI was demoted to the inside-of-throat position.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Yeh. I wouldn't even call any of them generations unless there was some structural/performance differences between them besides the font.
1010
Rookie
Agreed, they are just versions if they came out of same conditions.
Let (same factory, same mold, diff paint) be a version.
Generations
1: obvious
2: we know for sure that the production moved from Taiwan to China. Change of factory + that chinese quality = that's a generation 2.
3: We may also factor in the 25th-anniversary-one from 2015-16. throwback mold, apply retro paintjob, still in china. Same conditions of 20yrs ago? Same materials? feel real same or feel "close-to"? imho 3 generations is minimum.
Versions
How many? The experienced stringers around my zone recount of SIX versions! One says SEVEN. Not including the 25th, again.
Final count could be as high as 8. I wonder if we ever be able to line up ALL of them in a pic. Oh, just jump back to msg#1 for a description of 4 , plus a pic of 3... good start.
Let (same factory, same mold, diff paint) be a version.
Generations
1: obvious
2: we know for sure that the production moved from Taiwan to China. Change of factory + that chinese quality = that's a generation 2.
3: We may also factor in the 25th-anniversary-one from 2015-16. throwback mold, apply retro paintjob, still in china. Same conditions of 20yrs ago? Same materials? feel real same or feel "close-to"? imho 3 generations is minimum.
Versions
How many? The experienced stringers around my zone recount of SIX versions! One says SEVEN. Not including the 25th, again.
Final count could be as high as 8. I wonder if we ever be able to line up ALL of them in a pic. Oh, just jump back to msg#1 for a description of 4 , plus a pic of 3... good start.
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Hey, just got one of these bad boys, the 18*20 version, it's strung up with Signum Pro Poly Plasma which i will play with, also got a Silverstring which i can string up after SPPP. My question is which string(also which tension) do you think plays best in the PSC 6.1 18*20. I prefer poly, maybe even hybrid (poly + multi), but i'm not sure poly is good with the PSC from what i've read. Never tried syngut. What say you?
moon shot
Hall of Fame
I would stick with strings you know and mess around with tension. Its easier to tweak a few variables than keep them all in the air. I've liked K-baum pro line 2, hyper-g - all in a full bed.
1010
Rookie
You need to lower your expectations.
"Anniversary" does not mean they make it in the old way.
a PSC25 is close to, but not a PSC. trust me.
The PSC it's so solid you can safely drill into the hoop. I've tested ones with scratches 10cm long. I've played ones with markings so deep you can see the black core graphite, which is 2 layers down FYI. They still play solid vibrationless tennis. I can beat a fantasy-style dragon with it, Iknow I can.
1010
Rookie
Gut is king here.
then...
Gamma Professional 1.22, 23kg works nice. 24kg, too
then, if you insist in marrying Poly even if you well know ...
Signum pro firestorm 1.25
Kirschbaum proline2 1.25
You may try both at 1.20 but I won't help you down there, bottom line.
Can anyone confirm that there is a 1st gen (Pro Staff Classic alone) with air cushioned grip instead of leather?
There are many on e*** and @big bang said if it says Classic alone, its 1 st gen no matter the grip
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...aff-classic-6-1-si-specs-and-opinions.306563/
There are many on e*** and @big bang said if it says Classic alone, its 1 st gen no matter the grip
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...aff-classic-6-1-si-specs-and-opinions.306563/
moon shot
Hall of Fame
First I think it would be helpful to settle on what words to use. There were big changes that were marketed as new and inbetween those small changes to paint, decals, or manufacturing location.
To me a big change is a Version, like Kfactor to Blx. Under that small changes like if or where a si decal is placed would be a sub-version. I only go with version as that's what wilson currently uses.
If we talk generation I see that as a big change as well, under that decal changes could be a revision.
To me a big change is a Version, like Kfactor to Blx. Under that small changes like if or where a si decal is placed would be a sub-version. I only go with version as that's what wilson currently uses.
If we talk generation I see that as a big change as well, under that decal changes could be a revision.
moon shot
Hall of Fame
I don't have a complete timeline of these revisions, but I would think a 6.0 classic beam was an early model. A few possibilites:
- Wilson originally or unsuccessfully for a short time tried to take the exact same layup and call it 6.0 to market it as the replacement to the 6.0 85. This would also fit if they just made bad marketing choices early on and called both frames 6.0 and later changed it so people wern't as confused.
- Wilson made a alternate layup, as they did with the 4.2, 6.1, and 7.5 - all of them have a slightly different feel. There could be others in the 95 mold I'm not aware of.
moon shot
Hall of Fame
Thats probably be a good idea. In the end those are all just stickers placed on the frame after it was airbrushed and before its final coat. At some point the factory worker could have had a stack of the old stickers and new stickers and could have made a mixup.
Edit: I did find a old post by VSBabolat which reminded me, some of the classics were not braided and others were, that would be a difference for sure.
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Yes, and look at this : PS Classic 6.1 ... from Taiwan and leather grip.
http://unorthodoxstringing.blogspot.com.ar/2013/08/overhaul-wilson-prostaff-classic-61.html?m=1
It doesnt fit with Big Bang classification
http://unorthodoxstringing.blogspot.com.ar/2013/08/overhaul-wilson-prostaff-classic-61.html?m=1
It doesnt fit with Big Bang classification
moon shot
Hall of Fame
^^^
@unorthodox stringing is that your blog?
@unorthodox stringing is that your blog?
1010
Rookie
PSC did not went throu hyper-k-n-blx1-2 versions. PSC had the same tech from birth to end of life.
We are free to use "version" as we need fit. Or avoid the foreseeable confusion.
As as recap, I want to stress that @macattack used "versions" not "generations" in his classification (see OP), and "generations" got popular afterwards. A sign that "versions" wasn't well suited?
I still love @macattack work because it has good chronological details which hold true even after changing names.
Imho, a nice proposal should encompass also the 25th anniversary Edition. see? Edition
As my propasal, we'll call them Editions following Wilson lead, starting from 3.
-Taiwan Edition
-China Edition
-25th Edition
That is short, clear, and uses manifacturer+re-release as discriminant, which are both known to produce a different staff, hence always different feeling.
That way a paintjob is no more the discriminant, and it's goot because Editions use paintjobs to signal a change, but paintjobs can be abused freely for marketing goals, in the same edition, without altering content.
Feel free to comment.
Seems illogical, since Cushion-aire was added in China Edition.
And it doesn't look 1st edition too.
In my proposal I've reached the exact conclusion. Place+release as a first level.
The second level (differences while in the same edition) needs a consensus. Pls vote on
- paintjob?
- run?
- revision?
- subversion?
- sub-something?
Now it's the right time to point out that yes, some 2nd levels are known to have real differences, feeling, specs, etc. and no surprize, they happen in China Edition, sigh.
I'll appreciate if some old collegues can join this discussion @macattack, @BorgCash, @gino which have lots, @big bang as theorizer of 4-gens, etc
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Now I think that most important for me is the feel than the country, bad thing that it is subjective and we need many opinions of those who have many prostaffs.
Eg, Mat said Taiwan (leather grip) and China white cap "are pretty much the same", while China black cap feels less solid.
Although Big Bang said Taiwan (leather grip) feels the best.
I own a 18x20 standard lenght with original leather grip and white cap made in China, and the 25a (18x20 white cap China too). This week I will post if they feel the same. Both with same strings and tension.
Eg, Mat said Taiwan (leather grip) and China white cap "are pretty much the same", while China black cap feels less solid.
Although Big Bang said Taiwan (leather grip) feels the best.
I own a 18x20 standard lenght with original leather grip and white cap made in China, and the 25a (18x20 white cap China too). This week I will post if they feel the same. Both with same strings and tension.
What I would do if nobody likes that feel-list thing.. is the following classification:
"Country/Grip/Cap"
16x18:
-Taiwan / leather /white (mat and big b)
-Taiwan / cushioned/ white (my friend's)
- China / cushioned /white (mine)
- China / cushioned / black (big bang)
- Add new combination not listed above
18x20 std long
-Taiwan/ leather/ white (likitysplit)
- China/ leather / white (mine)
- 25a: China /leather /white (mine)
- Add ...
18x20 stretch
-....
And then we number them and can say the subjective thing (eg according to Mat, in 16x18, #1 feels the same as #3 but #4 feels less solid)
"Country/Grip/Cap"
16x18:
-Taiwan / leather /white (mat and big b)
-Taiwan / cushioned/ white (my friend's)
- China / cushioned /white (mine)
- China / cushioned / black (big bang)
- Add new combination not listed above
18x20 std long
-Taiwan/ leather/ white (likitysplit)
- China/ leather / white (mine)
- 25a: China /leather /white (mine)
- Add ...
18x20 stretch
-....
And then we number them and can say the subjective thing (eg according to Mat, in 16x18, #1 feels the same as #3 but #4 feels less solid)
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Even more detailed and obsessive (I dont recommend it)
"Country/Grip/Cap/Paintjob"
Eg 16x18:
-Taiwan/Leather/White/Classic
-Taiwan/Leather/White/Classic 6.1 (blog)
-Taiwan?/Leather/White/Classic 6.0
Another eg 16x18:
-China/Cushioned/White/Classic 6.1 si Arial font
-China/Cushioned/White/Classic 6.1 si Times New Roman font
But in this way, there will be sooooo many
"Country/Grip/Cap/Paintjob"
Eg 16x18:
-Taiwan/Leather/White/Classic
-Taiwan/Leather/White/Classic 6.1 (blog)
-Taiwan?/Leather/White/Classic 6.0
Another eg 16x18:
-China/Cushioned/White/Classic 6.1 si Arial font
-China/Cushioned/White/Classic 6.1 si Times New Roman font
But in this way, there will be sooooo many
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1010
Rookie
Pic please! From all angles, not less!
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
I think your "Country/Grip/Cap/Paintjob" system is good system and also listing all the different paint/cosmetics in chronological order and adding the font type in brackets, then from that list group the ones that feel the same with the same color text (or with brackets)like this:
Eg:
-Taiwan/Leather/White/Classic
-Taiwan/Leather/White/Classic 6.1 (blog)
-Taiwan?/Leather/White/Classic 6.0
-Taiwan/Leather/White/Pro Staff 6.1si (Arial font)
-China/cushioned/White/Pro Staff 6.1si (Arial font)
-China/cushioned?/White?/ProStaff 6.1si (Times New Roman font)
-China/cushioned/White/ProStaff 6.1 (Times New Roman font)
Note this is just for example purposes and not necessarily correct. The racquets i put in the example in the blue and green text are just some of the pro staff classic stretch racquets, I don't know if they are the same for the non stretch versions.
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Then we should be ready for a long thread.. because the variation in paintjobs could be endless (not just the font and si scale, but also the pws decal, or the 95/midplus thing...and why not, the red and yellow distribution). In some point we may have no clues of which year is each minor paint change.
But if you are all optimistic, then go ahead
I agree with the use of colours and brackets, it will help a lot for this mess
But if you are all optimistic, then go ahead
I agree with the use of colours and brackets, it will help a lot for this mess
I apologize for the bad quality of the pic, the sticker was removed and it left only a shadow.
My friend has already put the overgrip and wont take it off just for me, but believe me it is the air cushioned black grip inside
moon shot
Hall of Fame
I apologize for the bad quality of the pic, the sticker was removed and it left only a shadow.
My friend has already put the overgrip and wont take it off just for me, but believe me it is the air cushioned black grip inside
But what does the text in the throat say, Fairway or Cushion-Aire? I could buy a Cush and throw it on a St. Vincent 85 but it wasn't original.
Likitysplit
New User
Went and picked up a Pro Staff 6.1 Classic 18x20 today, the bloke I bought It from got It from a collector when he was last in Germany. Going by the first post in this thread this is the first generation that was made in Taiwan. Interesting that It has the additional red zones continued on the bridge like the stretch.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
I think that is the first one in china immediately after the last Taiwan one, so probably the same or similar to the last Taiwan one.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Went and picked up a Pro Staff 6.1 Classic 18x20 today, the bloke I bought It from got It from a collector when he was last in Germany. Going by the first post in this thread this is the first generation that was made in Taiwan. Interesting that It has the additional red zones continued on the bridge like the stretch.
If that has the same progressions as the stretch, then I think it's a china one due to the font. Yours looks like one of the blue ones in this sequence below.
i think these are in order:
1-Taiwan/Leather/White/Pro Staff 6.1si stretch(Arial font)
2-China/cushioned/White/Pro Staff 6.1si stretch(Arial font)
3-China/cushioned?/White?/ProStaff 6.1si stretch (Times New Roman font)
4-China/cushioned/White/ProStaff 6.1 stretch(Times New Roman font)
Likitysplit
New User
It's definitely not a stretch, same length as my other classic 6.1, also this one came with an original calfskin grip.
Edit: I just did a quick search via google images & majority of the 18x20 versions have the red progression. Maybe It's just a euro/18x20 thing?
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D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
I know yours isn't but i thought they changed the font and the info on the inside of the throat like the recommended string type and grip type at the same time for the various different stretch and non stretch versions.
maybe I'm assuming too much. what grip does it recommend to use on the info on the inside of the throat?
Likitysplit
New User
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
It recommends a Fairway Grip.
Ok then the progression i listed for the stretch version might be different. I dont think there's any stretch made in Taiwan with the Times New Roman font like yours.
Likitysplit
New User
Sorry I'm confussed, do you think my one is a stretch version?
