The problem with Djokovic

mandy01

G.O.A.T.
.......is not so much that he wins all the time, but that he seems like a slightly more improvised version of Nadal. True, he doesn't move nearly as well on clay but his basic game is so similar, that it feels like a continuation of Nadal's prime in some ways.

And that is boring. Neither Nadal nor Djokovic ever brought much variety to their game and are largely slow-court products. At least, Djokovic is a trifle aggressive when he plays Federer so their contests are more even and interesting but by and large, he's the same brick wall that Nadal was. And that makes for a very monotonous watch.

Discuss.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
.......is not so much that he wins all the time, but that he seems like a slightly more improvised version of Nadal. True, he doesn't move nearly as well on clay but his basic game is so similar, that it feels like a continuation of Nadal's prime in some ways.

And that is boring. Neither Nadal nor Djokovic ever brought much variety to their game and are largely slow-court products. At least, Djokovic is a trifle aggressive when he plays Federer so their contests are more even and interesting but by and large, he's the same brick wall that Nadal was. And that makes for a very monotonous watch.

Discuss.
Lol if you think Nadal and Ultron's tennis looks the same.
 

Russeljones

G.O.A.T.
.......is not so much that he wins all the time, but that he seems like a slightly more improvised version of Nadal. True, he doesn't move nearly as well on clay but his basic game is so similar, that it feels like a continuation of Nadal's prime in some ways.

And that is boring. Neither Nadal nor Djokovic ever brought much variety to their game and are largely slow-court products. At least, Djokovic is a trifle aggressive when he plays Federer so their contests are more even and interesting but by and large, he's the same brick wall that Nadal was. And that makes for a very monotonous watch.

Discuss.
Welcome back.

I am sure there are others who will dissect the comment about the similarities with more vigour, but I will comment on one aspect only - the reference to Nadal's prime. Nadal's prime was almost always conditional. Novak's prime started off that way but his tennis is less constrained now, in terms of knowing he has to go all-out. He can adjust to the level of the competition and that truly is the measure of the gap between him and his chasers, at the moment.

Nadal was coached to play within himself. Djokovic is more apt to express himself on the court.
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
Nadal and Djokovic similar. You have no idea what you are talking about dont you. Djokovic is boring because he always gives me an impression of Davydenko on steroids type of player. Way too robotic and boring.
 

Noelan

Legend
Their basic game is not simiilar at all.
FYI Novak brought variety in his game , to some extend Nadal did it too (at least 2013). And guess what, federer didn't invented the game, no matter how great he was/is.Don't pretend as he invents new shots every time when he steps on court. Those are as with every player ,well trained routines.
Djokodal (their boredom varies depending on who is better at given moment I assume) is 46 to 33 to your variety wizzard:(
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
The only unique player is Rafa. Fed way too classic and Djoko way too robot and Murray way too grumpy.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Sorry but djokovic is not only a slow court player. He has exelled pretty much on all surfaces and has the game and skillset to master them all. The fact that he has three Wimbledons and 0 FO shows the fallacies in your post.

Djokovic and Nadal are not similar IMO. They have alot of differences.
 

6august

Hall of Fame
The only unique player is Rafa. Fed way too classic and Djoko way too robot and Murray way too grumpy.
No. Nadal is Andreev on steroid. Federer is Srichaphan on steroid. Only Djokovic is unique with his elegant hard-court slide FH and BH.:rolleyes:
 

maupp

Semi-Pro
Whenever I see someone claiming things such as the OP where they attribute similarity to Nadal and Djokovic games, it always reminds me how little some people know about tennis and are just pretending of being knowledgeable about it.

You have one player who(in his prime) could pin his opponent back with a huge forehand containing heavy spin in order to get a short reply then pounce, then on the other hand you have a player solid from both wings with incredible depth of balls in his rallies which enables him to control the rallies and stay on the baseline. That's 2 very different playing style and approach from its core to everything else.

It seems like whenever some people hear that both Nadal and Djokovic are incredible at defending and retrieving balls as well, they immediately think they are similar players. This is such a lazy comparison if not a downright ignorant one. Some people can't even distinguish between such varying style of plays which makes me question their credibility about their tennis knowledge
 
D

Deleted member 410229

Guest
i believe there are many more problems with novack than this.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
OP, some more problems with Djokovic you forgot to mention
- his hair cut
- his wife is too hot (unfair)
- he has an egg
- he's a multimillionaire (and I'm not :mad:)
- he bounces the balls too much every now and then
- he puts his return at your feet
- he doesn't make enough errors except when playing Simon
- he's improved his serve too much
- same with his net game and his slice (again, unfair)
- he's got too much stamina
- he wins too much ;)

Solution? Ban the son of b*tch :D
 
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NatF

Bionic Poster
OP, some more problems with Djokovic you forgot to mention
- his hair cut
- his wife is too hot (unfair)
- he has an egg
- he's a multimillionaire (and I'm not :mad:)
- he bounces the balls too much every now and then
- he puts his return at your feet
- he doesn't make enough errors except when playing Simon
- he's improved his serve too much
- same with his net game and his slice (again, unfair)
- he's got too much stamina

Solution? Ban the son of b*tch :D
It's ok.

It's really not. Jelena is smokin'.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I have to be honest. This thread has surprised me. There is no real "problem" with Djokovic to be sure. He plays his style and it's not everybody's cup of tea. That's just tough luck. I get that, but the amount of people vehemently denying that Nadal and Djokovic have similar playing styles is mind boggling tbh.

Sure Djokovic has a better serve (and always did even before he improved it and Nadal's declined IMO). Sure he's more solid off both wings on average and he's more aggressive. He returns better and is extremely flexible while Nadal is "normal" compared to him in that regard. I would say Djokovic's game is more nuanced and adapted to HC which is the majority surface so that helps him, but Djokovic and Nadal are built on the same consistency based structure. Make no mistake there are many differences between them, but on the bare essentials Nadal and Djokovic both have that wall like defense and consistency whereas someone like Federer is more aggressive in comparison.

I mean think about it. I can't count the number of times over the years that I've heard some variation of "Djokovic (or Nadal) has gone into lockdown (or grind) mode." In contrast, I've never heard anyone say that about Federer. Do I agree with the OP? No because OP is whining, but I do think the point is a pretty obvious one even if it is horribly articulated.

As a bit of a side note I will say that what impresses me most about Djokovic in rallies is his ability to change the direction of the ball. And for Nadal it was probably either his pure speed or his footwork to get around a BH and make it a FH, particularly on the first shot after the serve.
 
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mandy01

G.O.A.T.
Nadal and Djokovic are stylistically similar....and that is the point of the OP. I'm not arguing on the finer points of their minor differences. They're both, at the end of the day, defensive baseliners and it's dull watching one defensive player dominate after the other. I also think that is probably why Djokovic isn't very popular. And this is despite the fact that he has more of a personality than Nadal.

Also, those claiming this thread is whiny or bitter-Not at all. I've been a tennis fan for too long to feel bitter about anything. All I am pointing to is the reason why Djokovic still hasn't found the sort of fan support, a player with his achievements should have found. That's all. Stop crying and taking my OP more seriously than it needs to be taken.
 
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mandy01

G.O.A.T.
I have to be honest. This thread has surprised me. There is no real "problem" with Djokovic to be sure. He plays his style and it's not everybody's cup of tea. That's just tough luck. I get that, but the amount of people vehemently denying that Nadal and Djokovic have similar playing styles is mind boggling tbh.

Sure Djokovic has a better serve (and always did even before he improved it and Nadal's declined IMO). Sure he's more solid off both wings on average and he's more aggressive. He returns better and is extremely flexible while Nadal is "normal" compared to him in that regard. I would say Djokovic's game is more nuanced and adapted to HC which is the majority surface so that helps him, but Djokovic and Nadal are built on the same consistency based structure. Make no mistake there are many differences between them, but on the bare essentials Nadal and Djokovic both have that wall like defense and consistency whereas someone like Federer is more aggressive in comparison.

I mean think about it. I can't count the number of times over the years that I've heard some variation of "Djokovic (or Nadal) has gone into lockdown (or grind) mode." In contrast, I've never heard anyone say that about Federer. Do I agree with the OP? No because OP is whining, but I do think the point is a pretty obvious one even if it is horribly articulated.

As a bit of a side note I will say that what impresses me most about Djokovic in rallies is his ability to change the direction of the ball. And for Nadal it was probably either his pure speed or his footwork to get around a BH and make it a FH, particularly on the first shot after the serve.
I don't think Djokovic's game is a problem in the sense of its workability. All I am saying is that it doesn't help his popularity. It really does feel as though I'm watching a more flexible, less injury-prone version of Nadal sometimes. Especially when the two play each other. Or play Murray.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal and Djokovic are stylistically similar....and that is the point of the OP. I'm not arguing on the finer points of their minor differences. They're both, at the end of the day, defensive baseliners and it's dull watching one defensive player dominate after the other. I also think that is probably why Djokovic isn't very popular. And this is despite the fact that he has more of a personality than Nadal.

Also, those claiming this thread is whiny or bitter-Not at all. I've been a tennis fan for too long to feel bitter about anything. All I am pointing to is the reason why Djokovic still hasn't found the sort of fan support, a player with his achievements should have found. That's all. Stop crying and taking my OP more seriously than it needs to be taken.

It's amazing and almost impossible for two defensive baseliners to win 14 and 11 Slams. I mean I have never heard of that. Maybe because it isn't true. They are both great defensive to offensive baseliners who can both play aggressively as well. Also, they are not similar. They have more differences than similarities. I can run off a list of Slams from both that they won playing aggressive baseline tennis.
 

mandy01

G.O.A.T.
It's amazing and almost impossible for two defensive baseliners to win 14 and 11 Slams. I mean I have never heard of that. Maybe because it isn't true. They are both great defensive to offensive baseliners who can both play aggressively as well. Also, they are not similar. They have more differences than similarities. I can run off a list of Slams from both that they won playing aggressive baseline tennis.
The reason why there haven't been a lot of defensive baseliners who dominated tennis in the past, is that there was no way you could play on those surfaces, the way Nadal and Djokovic do today. Forget coming to the net. Which one of them at least tries to keep points short off the back court? Like I said in my OP, Djokovic IS more aggressive than usual if he plays someone like Federer. That's why their matches are interesting. But I have no clue how anyone can find a Nadal-Djokovic interesting. It's like two mirrors reflecting each other.

And honestly, Djokovic's footwork STILL isn't great on grass. I have no clue how he's won more than guys like Edberg. It's amazing how the game has become all about one style.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
.......is not so much that he wins all the time, but that he seems like a slightly more improvised version of Nadal. True, he doesn't move nearly as well on clay but his basic game is so similar, that it feels like a continuation of Nadal's prime in some ways.

And that is boring. Neither Nadal nor Djokovic ever brought much variety to their game and are largely slow-court products. At least, Djokovic is a trifle aggressive when he plays Federer so their contests are more even and interesting but by and large, he's the same brick wall that Nadal was. And that makes for a very monotonous watch.

Discuss.
Yes, that is the problem IMO. Not that he wins all the time but that he has little competition outside of Federer in best of three on faster hard courts. His main slam rivals have all hit the dirt with Federer long past his prime, Murray not at his best and Nadal in crash and burn mode. But on top of that yes, Djokovic's style of tennis is very boring and robotic. He's basically a brick wall especially on these slower hard courts where getting the ball past him is next to impossible. Djokovic is a grinder at heart as was Nadal but IMO Nadal at his best was always more explosive and thus more exciting/interesting to watch.

Here's to some exciting rivalries in the future and hopefully rivalries where players have different styles rather than watching all grinding brick wall tennis. Please hurry!
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
The reason why there haven't been a lot of defensive baseliners who dominated tennis in the past, is that there was no way you could play on those surfaces, the way Nadal and Djokovic do today. Forget coming to the net. Which one of them at least tries to keep points short off the back court? Like I said in my OP, Djokovic IS more aggressive than usual if he plays someone like Federer. That's why their matches are interesting. But I have no clue how anyone can find a Nadal-Djokovic interesting. It's like two mirrors reflecting each other.

Djokovic adapts to his opponents so his style varies from match to match. He is a chameleon in that sense because he changes his style to suit the opponent. With that said, neither are solely defensive baseliners, especially Djokovic. Nadal's positioning on the baseline is defensive because he is so far behind the baseline but he always looking to take control of the point with his forehand and finish it. Djokovic stands right on the baseline to dictate play from the first ball and find the first opening to finish the point. So they are not similar and they also have had some great matches including the 2011 US Open. Both guys were aggressive in that match. Nadal also was very aggressive in his two US Open wins over Djokovic.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
To me she still wins. But I have a thing for her eyes as well and she looks incredibly sweet too, which helps.
Raonic's GF is hotter though, hands down.
Dunno man, Jelena is pretty overrated IMHO

Thank god we all have different tastes I suppose, not like there's not much to go around or anything already :p
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Dunno man, Jelena is pretty overrated IMHO

Thank god we all have different tastes I suppose, not like there's not much to go around or anything already :p
Completely overrated IMO. Jelena is cute but nothing special IMO. Not like Raonic's gf!
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Overrated???!!! You infidel! ;)
My current favorites are Raonic's gf, then Jelena/Xisca.
All time, Brooklyn Decker takes the cake however.
I don't like Brooklyn Decker's looks. She obviously has a nice body but her face is pig-like IMO. Raonic's gf is much better IMO. Jelena is average to slightly above for me, not in the league of Raonic's gf.
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
It looked like every kind of a thread will eventually have a "boring Djokovic" in discussion eventually. Now the thread that actually is about a "problem with Djokovic" has been derailed with a discussion about GFs. We are making an amazing progress! :cool:
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
I don't like Brooklyn Decker's looks. She obviously has a nice body but her face is pig-like IMO. Raonic's gf is much better IMO. Jelena is average to slightly above for me, not in the league of Raonic's gf.
Piglike? Lol. Now I've heard it all - some standards you have ;)
http://www.si.com/swimsuit-2010/pho...-sports-illustrated-swimsuit-edition-si-com#5
She also tops this list (with Jelena coming in 2nd :eek:, ahead of Raonic's GF):
http://topbet.eu/news/hottest-wives-and-girlfriends-of-tennis-players.html


Piglike? Piglike??

It looked like every kind of a thread will eventually have a "boring Djokovic" in discussion eventually. Now the thread that actually is about a "problem with Djokovic" has been derailed with a discussion about GFs. We are making an amazing progress! :cool:
Don't complain. This thread started as a pure Djoko-bashing thread. We've derailed it in a good way. But if you want, go back and discuss all the additional Djoko problems I listed in post 19 (which led to the derailment).

Otherwise, join us in the banter
 
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