The problem with Roger Federer G.O.A.T. claims: Nadal and Djokovic rivalries

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Basically Fed is no goat

Yes i agree. He is career inflated. Nadal is even morre so inflated as not only does he have inferior results to even this NON GOAT fed (less slams, AO, WIMB, Uso, no 1 etc) but his few wins versus him are meaningless in GOAT discussions and his 15 losses even more damning.... then add in the facts he has built a career beating ferrer, peurta, soderling, berdych, thiem in slam finals it is all very damning. And losing 15 times to non GOAT lol. And even the 36 year old version of a non GOAT!! And he still has inferior results and less slams to this non GOAT!

Dont mention the 7-0 7-0 humiliations. Nadal lucked out vulturing versus pre 2011 novak

Zvervev is the future
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Well, Djokovic didn't had the luxury to play Baghdatis, Roddick, Hewitt, Gonzalez, Philippoussis and young baby toddler clay court specialist Nadal in the Slam finals, didn't he!;)

Murray
Murray
Wawrinka
Wawrinka
Wawrinka
Nishikori
Querrey

Prime Djokovic slam losses. He did have that calibre of player but messed up too much which has left him out of the running.
 
Murray
Murray
Wawrinka
Wawrinka
Wawrinka
Nishikori
Querrey

Prime Djokovic slam losses. He did have that calibre if player but messed up too much which has left him out of the running.

Lmao when did he lose to querry? Thats the crazy thing about chokovic. Ok so nadal has a lot of mug losses (but never bar once in slam finals) but usually when out of form and fed has no mug slam final losses even when non peak but chokovic when peak red hot world no 1 and in form loses to any random mug under the sun even in slam finals

Serious question woukd you bat an eyelid if you heard world no 1 chokovic just lost to nihioka in a slam final? I wouldnt
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Lmao when did he lose to querry? Thats the crazy thing about chokovic. Ok so nadal has a lot of mug losses (but never bar once in slam finals) but usually when out of form chokovic when peak red hot world no 1 and in form loses to any random mug under the sun even in slam finals
2016 Wimbledon. 2 times defending Wimbledon champ and 4 times defending slam champ so at his very peak.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes i agree. He is career inflated. Nadal is even morre so inflated as not only does he have inferior results to even this NON GOAT fed (less slams, AO, WIMB, Uso, no 1 etc) but his few wins versus him are meaningless in GOAT discussions and his 15 losses even more damning.... then add in the facts he has built a career beating ferrer, peurta, soderling, berdych, thiem in slam finals it is all very damning. And losing 15 times to non GOAT lol. And even the 36 year old version of a non GOAT!! And he still has inferior results and less slams to this non GOAT!

Dont mention the 7-0 7-0 humiliations. Nadal lucked out vulturing versus pre 2011 novak

Zvervev is the future
Rafa is more of a goat since he actually beat the big ones on their surface
 
2016 Wimbledon. 2 times defending Wimbledon champ and 4 times defending slam champ so at his very peak.

Chokovic. Fed has no mug losses in slam finals even when non peak, nadal only has 1 and if i recall was not world no 1 at the time or peak... peak chokovic is losing to every mug under the sun when peak at slam final, wtf final and master final level. Unacceptable
 
Rafa is more of a goat since he actually beat the big ones on their surface

Which GOAT did he beat? Ferrer on clay?

Novak isnt goat but eitger way he humiliated nadal 7-0 7-0

Fed isnt goat. And not only did nadal lose to non goat fed 15 times he lost to the post peak and 37 year version even at slam and master finals level
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Which GOAT did he beat? Ferrer on clay?

Novak isnt goat but eitger way he humiliated nadal 7-0 7-0

Fed isnt goat. And not only did nadal lose to non goat fed he lost to the post peak and 37 year version even at slam and master finals level
If you think a little longer I am sure you know which slam finals I am talking about
 
Murray
Murray
Wawrinka
Wawrinka
Wawrinka
Nishikori
Querrey

Prime Djokovic slam losses. He did have that calibre if player but messed up too much which has left him out of the running.
If you ask Djokovic if he would like to swap Wawrinka and Murray with Baghdatis and Hewitt as his Slam final opponents, what do you think, would he do it.... Yeah right...
 
If you think a little longer I am sure you know which slam finals I am talking about

Ferrer (lol), peurta (lol), berdych, theim, soderling, fed on clay (lol) non goat fed, 2010 novak (lol)

He doesnt have a single GOAT win in a slam final. They are all weak era slams vs no GOAT players

And then there is the mug lossess brown, pouille etc and 7-0 7-0 humikiations
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
If you ask Djokovic if he would like to swap Wawrinka and Murray with Baghdatis and Hewitt as his Slam final opponents, what do you think, would he do it.... Yeah right...

He isn’t as good as Fed so he is susceptible to lose to Murray, Wawrinka, Nishikori etc.

It doesn’t matter which of these guys you put in front of Fed. The only ones who stand a chance vs him are a GOATing player like Safin/Delpo, peak Nadal or peak Nole at AO plexicushion.
 
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Hmgraphite1

Hall of Fame
Yes i agree. He is career inflated. Nadal is even morre so inflated as not only does he have inferior results to even this NON GOAT fed (less slams, AO, WIMB, Uso, no 1 etc) but his few wins versus him are meaningless in GOAT discussions and his 15 losses even more damning.... then add in the facts he has built a career beating ferrer, peurta, soderling, berdych, thiem in slam finals it is all very damning. And losing 15 times to non GOAT lol. And even the 36 year old version of a non GOAT!! And he still has inferior results and less slams to this non GOAT!

Dont mention the 7-0 7-0 humiliations. Nadal lucked out vulturing versus pre 2011 novak

Zvervev is the future
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TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Ferrer (lol), peurta (lol), berdych, theim, soderling, fed on clay (lol) non goat fed, 2010 novak (lol)

He doesnt have a single GOAT win in a slam final. They are all weak era slams vs no GOAT players
Your thought processes are going in circles
Beating fed in his prime on grass on HC

Our discussion will go no places as you seem insane
 
If you think a little longer I am sure you know which slam finals I am talking about

Also most hilarious of all even though his strongest competition has been a non GOAT fed... he still is inferior in resulta to this non goat in 4/5 of biggest tournaments

He had no GOAT competition yet didnt get the slam, wtf, olympics, ye no 1, no 1 record. Lol. Thanks ferrer, berdych, peurta but you didnt help enough
 
Your thought processes are going in circles
Beating fed in his prime on grass on HC

Our discussion will go no places as you seem insane

Fed isnt GOAT on either surface. So you are relying on one grass slam win to a non GOAT (lets not get into beatdowns by mueller and brown)

Despite no GOAT comp he has no grass records or hard records and didnt get the slam count. Even djokovic and murray did better hard, grass and indoors. Thanks peurta, ferrer, berdych but you could have helped more
 
Your thought processes are going in circles
Beating fed in his prime on grass on HC

Our discussion will go no places as you seem insane

Also let me get this straight nadal has ONE slam final win on grass and ONE hard court final vs a non GOAT, a treasure chest of mug wins versus peurta, ferrer, soderling, berdych.... a 7-0 7-0 humiliation at novaks hands and countless mug losses to muellrr, brown etc

Despite all the help he doesnt even hold the slam or wtf or no 1 records from non GOATS such fed, novak and mugray

Lol
 
He isn’t as good as Fed so he is susceptible to lose to Murray, Wawrinka, Nishikori etc.

It doesn’t matter which of these guys you put in front of Fed. The only ones who stand a chance vs him are a GOATing player like Safin/Delpo, peak Nadal or peak Nole at AO plexicushion.
Murray and Wawrinka are more of a Guga, Courier or Safin when not drunk caliber of players.

Hewitt, Roddick are more of a Tsonga, Delpo, Ferrer, Berdych, Cilic level of players, a perfect gatekeepers.

Baghdatis and Gonzalez are journeyman with one or two fluke streaky runs like Johansson, Gaudio, Verkerk.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Murray and Wawrinka are more of a Guga, Courier or Safin when not drunk caliber of players.
Hewitt, Roddick are more of a Tsonga, Delpo, Ferrer, Berdych, Cilic level of players, a perfect gatekeepers.
Baghdatis and Gonzalez are journeyman with one or two fluke streaky runs like Johansson, Gaudio, Verkerk.
In general terms you have a point (except Roddick/Hewitt are similar to Murray)

In peak ATG terms they’re all the same to Peak Fed and don’t represent any great competition. For Nole they may do because he isn’t as good as Fed.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Also let me get this straight nadal has ONE slam final win on grass and ONE hard court final vs a non GOAT, a treasure chest of mug wins versus peurta, ferrer, soderling, berdych.... a 7-0 7-0 humiliation at novaks hands and countless mug losses to muellrr, brown etc

Despite all the help he doesnt even hold the slam or wtf or no 1 records from non GOATS such fed, novak and mugray

Lol
You are:

1: a traumatised Fed troll

Or

2: an incarnation of 90s clay
 
Murray and Wawrinka are more of a Guga, Courier or Safin when not drunk caliber of players.

Hewitt, Roddick are more of a Tsonga, Delpo, Ferrer, Berdych, Cilic level of players, a perfect gatekeepers.

Baghdatis and Gonzalez are journeyman with one or two fluke streaky runs like Johansson, Gaudio, Verkerk.

I fully agree about baghdatstis etc but thats why ts so funny they crushed nadal in slams
 
You are:

1: a traumatised Fed troll

Or

2: an incarnation of 90s clay

I dont understand what is so difficult. We have already agreed that peurta, ferrer, soderling, berdych, thiem are mugs so no issues there
we agree Fed is not a GOAT and is a joke on clay. No issue there.
Whether we agree or not on the 7-0 7-0 humiliation by novak of nadal is irrelavant as it is a fact
Nadal has inferior performance against the NON GOAT at AO,WIMB,USO,WTF, All non clay masters, ye no 1, weeks at no etc. Again your agreement is irrelvant as it is a fact

hence:
1) all of nadals slam wins are against mugs
2) nadal is inferior to a non GOAT in every single non clay event and in all tennis metrics basically
3) On clay nadals weak era mugness just gets worse ferrer, soderling, nadal
4) Nadal is owned by novak utterly utterly owned 7-0-7-0 humilation
 

Rogfan

Professional
Fed fanatics get more and more rabid as Djoko and Nadal get closer.

It’s more than the selected few Fed haters getting more hysterical by the minute as Fed continues to lead many records including slam counts, week #1 etc while Nadal and Djoker are running out of time to have any hope to catch him
 
Face it - both Murray and Stan are mugs and your favorite got embarrassed by them in 4 GS Finals.US Open 2012 final - pathetic match from Djokovic.Wimbledon 2013 final - Djokovic embarrassed by Murray in straight sets lol.FO 2015 final - Peak Djokovic who supposedly is the best player ever according to some destroyed by Stan in 4 sets and of course US Open 2016 where he got destroyed again by Stan

Which one of chokovics humiliations at slam finald do you think was the worst? Wtf final is not a slam but beibg owned by baby zverev when djokovic was playing his highest level ever and was peak red hot form is pretty awful no? But is it worse then chokovics murray loss at wtf where he choked no1 or his mugogvic loss to mugwinka at FO?
 
It’s more than the selected few Fed haters getting more hysterical by the minute as Fed continues to lead many records including slam counts, week #1 etc while Nadal and Djoker are running out of time to have any hope to catch him

That is a very good way to put it.

:cool:
 

Rogfan

Professional
You're basically saying he was not peak because he was not no.1.

Well, I have to tell you something: to meet the no.1 you have to be not no.1 :eek::eek: Mindblowing, no?

Something relevant now: Federer had an average ranking of no.3 when he met no.1. Lower, slightly, only than Nadal's (2.7) among players of that list.

No I was saying Nadal definitely had a very high peak but he also has very low lows. To evaluate a tennis player you can’t just look at his absolute peaks and ignore how often he sinks to the bottom. Fed’s GOATness lies in his consistent high level for soooo long which is very very hard to match by any. If Nadal was to remain consistently on high levels throughout his career, there’s no way he’d have had such high percentage of beating the #1 because he’d have to completely change his game in order to remain healthy. With a different and healthier game and playing style he would have had such high peaks.

I don’t know why it’s so difficult for some people to understand? A tennis player doesn’t play a couple of ATGs, he plays the field. You diminish Fed by saying how many matches he lost to the ATGs, then you turn around to elevate other ATGs by saying how often they beat Fed, the exact person you just smear on? How does it work?
 
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Deleted member 757377

Guest
No I was saying Nadal definitely had a very high peak but he also has very low lows. To evaluate a tennis player you can’t just look at his absolute peaks and ignore how often he sinks to the bottom. Fed’s GOATness lies in his consistent high level for soooo long which is very very hard to match by any. If Nadal was to remain consistently on high levels throughout his career, there’s no way he’d have had such high percentage of beating the #1 because he’d have to completely change his game in order to remain healthy. With a different and healthier game and playing style he would have had such high peaks.

I don’t know why it’s so difficult for some people to understand? A tennis player doesn’t play a couple of ATGs, he plays the field. You diminish Fed by saying how many matches he lost to the ATGs, then you turn around to elevate other ATGs by saying how often they beat Fed, the exact person you just smear on? How does it work?
Djoko and Nadal are closer to Fed in achievements than Fed is to them in peak or results against ATGs.

Just look at big titles for example: 53, 51, 51.

And the gap will reduce since D/N are younger.
 
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TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
No I was saying Nadal definitely had a very high peak but he also has very low lows. To evaluate a tennis player you can’t just look at his absolute peaks and ignore how often he sinks to the bottom. Fed’s GOATness lies in his consistent high level for soooo long which is very very hard to match by any. If Nadal was to remain consistently on high levels throughout his career, there’s no way he’d have had such high percentage of beating the #1 because he’d have to completely change his game in order to remain healthy. With a different and healthier game and playing style he would have had such high peaks.

I don’t know why it’s so difficult for some people to understand? A tennis player doesn’t play a couple of ATGs, he plays the field. You diminish Fed by saying how many matches he lost to the ATGs, then you turn around to elevate other ATGs by saying how often they beat Fed, the exact person you just smear on? How does it work?
The problem, as journalists and many others are asking themselves is: How can Federer be considered a goat when he has a losing record against his two biggest rivals.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Hewitt, Roddick are more of a Tsonga, Delpo, Ferrer, Berdych, Cilic level of players, a perfect gatekeepers.

bwahahaha .........

yeah, that is the same as saying Djokovic is only a slightly better version of Chang, that's how dumb that statement is.
but then coming from your clueless self, that's hardly surprising. :D

Baghdatis and Gonzalez are journeyman with one or two fluke streaky runs like Johansson, Gaudio, Verkerk.

Gonzalez has 1 slam final, 1 slam semi, 4 slam QFs,
ended 5 years in the top 15 (2005-09) (ranked 11, 10, 7, 15, 11)
only a clueless guy would call him a journeyman, but hey wait, you are that !

Talent-wise, Baghdatis is a bottom half of top 10 player , but under-achieved massively.
 
Many thinks Feds records dont need to be broken for them to prove they are better players.
Its more between Rafa and Novak now who is the goat.

Nice argument. Good lord.

You display your absolute zero knowledge about anything in every single post. I honestly wonder how you manage to even log onto the site and post. Dead serious.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Nice argument. Good lord.

You display your absolute zero knowledge about anything in every single post. I honestly wonder how you manage to even log onto the site and post. Dead serious.
Would you discuss this way outside a tennis forum, going personal w the people you discuss with? I hope not as it will not bring you very far in life.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
Many thinks Feds records dont need to be broken for them to prove they are better players.
Its more between Rafa and Novak now who is the goat.

I think an overwhelming number of tennis fans and commentators reagard Federer as the best ever, for now. Which is probably correct. For now.

Things may look completely different when the three have retired. Djokovic may win 24 slams, for all we know.

I fail to see why Nadal and Djokovic should be considered better if they have achieved less.
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
Murray and Wawrinka are more of a Guga, Courier or Safin when not drunk caliber of players.

Hewitt, Roddick are more of a Tsonga, Delpo, Ferrer, Berdych, Cilic level of players, a perfect gatekeepers.

Baghdatis and Gonzalez are journeyman with one or two fluke streaky runs like Johansson, Gaudio, Verkerk.
Here we go with comparing Hewitt to mugs again LOL.

Hewitt leads the H2H with Del Potro lmfao.

Also before 2016 Murray and Hewitt had very similar career trajectories. He's closer to Murray than he is to your slew of useless mugs you listed.

But then again you are a useless poster, so..
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
By the way, without Fed, I reckon Hewitt would've ended up a better player than Courier. Take it any way you want. Unlike Hewitt Courier had a 2 year easy breeze period before Sampras came along to win 4 majors during his very peak. During Hewitt's very peak Federer was on the scene.
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
And finally, I don't even think Guga was a better player than Hewitt. I firmly believe Hewitt was better than Guga.
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
She's like Glenn Close out of Fatal Attraction, don't mind her. Let her keep up her insanity while taking selfies with Soderling. I wonder what his opinion is of Fed... oh that's right, he feels Fed was better than Nadal and Djokovic! Perhaps she should talk about that with him.
 

mightyjeditribble

Hall of Fame
Stopped reading right there.

Fed is overwhelmingly the greatest player of his generation. These are men of Fed's generation:

Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Philippoussis, Davydenko, Ljubicic (his current coach!) and Nalbandian.

Nadal is five years younger than Roger and Novak is SIX years younger. Neither are his generational rivals, since all those guys are long since retired.

Thank you for saving me writing this. :)
 
By the way, without Fed, I reckon Hewitt would've ended up a better player than Courier. Take it any way you want. Unlike Hewitt Courier had a 2 year easy breeze period before Sampras came along to win 4 majors during his very peak. During Hewitt's very peak Federer was on the scene.
You're looking at the wrong direction kiddo. Instead of just being happy that the Australian Ferrer actually won 2 slams, and overachieving mightily in his career, your asking for moar from a tennis player with limited talents. I don't know if Hewitt is your favourite player, maybe it is, but it's not very humble, isn't it!?;)
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
You're looking at the wrong direction kiddo. Instead of just being happy that the Australian Ferrer actually won 2 slams, and overachieving mightily in his career, your asking for moar from a tennis player with limited talents. I don't know if Hewitt is your favourite player, maybe it is, but it's not very humble, isn't it!?;)
How old are you? If you're older than me and spewing this garbage you are a very, very sad person.

Australian Ferrer? How many times has he beaten Federer? A big fat 0.

Hewitt was beating Fed as an old crippled man lmao.

Limited talents and all this garbage is just a load of hogwash. You clearly didn't watch him at his best and I'd bet you're younger than I am.

He beats Sampras 7-5, 6-0 at the WTF, 6-4, 6-4 on grass and beats Federer multiples times on grass and he was "limited".

I wonder how "limited" Murray is then.

It's also "not very humble" to compare Lleyton freaking Hewitt, the guy who was No. 1 in the world for 2 years in a row and won 2 majors to guys like Cilic and Berdych. It's like you are unable to appreciate anything that has to do with Federer in some shape or form.
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
He makes several more deep runs in majors but he was "lucky" to only win 2... lmao.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
I think an overwhelming number of tennis fans and commentators reagard Federer as the best ever, for now. Which is probably correct. For now.

Things may look completely different when the three have retired. Djokovic may win 24 slams, for all we know.

I fail to see why Nadal and Djokovic should be considered better if they have achieved less.
Things seem to gradually change in terms of what people think of what determent a goat.
Ex players and people quite high up ik the tennis world suspect Fed of tanking. Losing record vs his two biggest rivals.. doesnt look good. From the people I have met on my path Fed being a goat is not consensus. This forum is not at all mirroring the world.
 
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