The Pros are going to have to start playing with wooden racquets again

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I would love to see poly banned or limited, but that would result in players using the closest thing they could right up to the edge. I think this would be a nightmare to regulate.
I don't think it would be that hard to regulate. Just ban all stringers from stocking poly strings. And if a stringer is caught stringing poly then he immediately gets kicked out of the tournament. And of course if a player is caught using poly in a match then it's automatic and immediate disqualification. I doubt many stringers or players would take that risk. Just have an official check all players' racquets before they walk out onto the court and have someone keep an eye in the stringing room.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
The reality is that no measure will be taken until a significant drop in audience/money flow is observed. Money on the ATP tour has quadrupled since 2000, so there is no evidence that anything needs to change.
I think you made a bad assumption with my post: I'm not saying it should be done - just how it could/should be done. The person I responded to wanted to make multiple, major changes.

I agree with you - tennis is fine. But if the players keep getting bigger and/or the string mfg's come up with another material that delivers a significant increase in spin/power, the tour might have to step in.
 
How about co-poly? Can you recognize, just by sight, poly vs coated microfiber? How about a string with exactly the same power and spin as poly, but isn't poly?..
Tournament officials checking strings would not be required to guess or deduce what strings were used by a pro. It would have to be demonstrated by the pro he or she is in compliance. And I can't think of a string that spins like a poly that isn't a poly.
That's sort of the whole point.
 

welldone

New User
This entire thread is incredibly stupid. If somebody can't deal with the spin and power coming off an opponent's racquet they are worse regardless of poly string giving an advantage. Zero pros seem to be advocating for this bs, so why don't you guys stop being old men and living in the past because you don't like when people hit hard anymore. Progression is inherent, trying to limit it is f*cking imbecilic.
 

Eichiro

Rookie
This entire thread is incredibly stupid. If somebody can't deal with the spin and power coming off an opponent's racquet they are worse regardless of poly string giving an advantage. Zero pros seem to be advocating for this bs, so why don't you guys stop being old men and living in the past because you don't like when people hit hard anymore. Progression is inherent, trying to limit it is f*cking imbecilic.
He's on point
 

onehandbh

Legend
I think it would be interesting to have a couple wood racquet exhibition tournaments with the top 20-30 pros.
One on old school speed grass and one on clay.
 

Al Czervik

Hall of Fame
This entire thread is incredibly stupid. If somebody can't deal with the spin and power coming off an opponent's racquet they are worse regardless of poly string giving an advantage. Zero pros seem to be advocating for this bs, so why don't you guys stop being old men and living in the past because you don't like when people hit hard anymore. Progression is inherent, trying to limit it is f*cking imbecilic.
Because I'm tired of Bend it like Beckham banana shots eliminating the net game and resulting in five hour matches with 20-30 shot rallies every point.
 

Bluefan75

Professional
Monitoring string composition is unrealistic at best. Power governors? ..Not sure what that is. Simplest way to address the problem is restricting head size. Example 85 sq in, or even 80 sq in. They're professional, after all. They should be able to find the ball. Since the head is now so much smaller, balls won't be flying 150 mph anymore...
This is the big thing. It's like in golf, where everyone goes on about 300+ yard drives and everything. Yes, the ball is much better these days from several aspects(although similar to tennis it's not all good), but one of the reasons you can swing so hard is that with a modern driver, it's hard to miss the ball. If you're not going to miss it, you're swinging a lot harder than if you need to make sure you hit it.

Same here. Taking a big rip with a smaller head will lead to a few mishits at first, but then the players will learn they can't play that way.

And the baseball analogies(I know, old thread) didn't go far enough with the wooden bats. Not only could you hit more home runs, you took away pitching inside, because a hitter that is jammed with a wooden bat hits a weak grounder or pop up to an infielder, and the bat probably breaks. With a metal bat, the hitter isn't worried about the bat breaking, and that same ball gets to the outfield for a hit. Totally takes away a part of the game. Which is kind of what the "modern, evolved" equipment of tennis today has done as well. Nobody is saying everyone has to play serve and volley, but when the equipment makes a particular style of play completely obsolete, something is wrong.
 

yonexRx32

Semi-Pro
Tournament officials checking strings would not be required to guess or deduce what strings were used by a pro. It would have to be demonstrated by the pro he or she is in compliance.
"and Sir, I hereby present for your consideration this paper from my doctor that says that my strings comply with the rules"
 
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onehandbh

Legend
That would be awesome!
Maybe a 32 player draw with a qualifying tournament that allows some top amateurs to play as well.

The amateur entries could be based on the results of a small international wood racquet tournament schedule.

Having the chance to potentially play against current pros would certainly draw some interest.
 

wings56

Hall of Fame
Maybe a 32 player draw with a qualifying tournament that allows some top amateurs to play as well.

The amateur entries could be based on the results of a small international wood racquet tournament schedule.

Having the chance to potentially play against current pros would certainly draw some interest.
Fun concept
 

onehandbh

Legend
For the retro tennis league, if wood racquets are too difficult to obtain, then perhaps some of the racquet manufactures could make racquets having the same mold/headsize as wood racquets but made of modern materials and having a maximum stiffness limit.
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
While we are at it lets make modern players smoke cigarettes, binge drink, and do blow so they can really look like the skinny out of shape dudes from back in the day! LMAO..give me a break. Spare me the Borg reference..there is a reason he stood out..he was the odd case with actual muscle tone.
 

cedm

New User
For the retro tennis league, if wood racquets are too difficult to obtain, then perhaps some of the racquet manufactures could make racquets having the same mold/headsize as wood racquets but made of modern materials and having a maximum stiffness limit.
I'll take 10!!!
 

stingstang

Semi-Pro
This entire thread is incredibly stupid. If somebody can't deal with the spin and power coming off an opponent's racquet they are worse regardless of poly string giving an advantage. Zero pros seem to be advocating for this bs, so why don't you guys stop being old men and living in the past because you don't like when people hit hard anymore. Progression is inherent, trying to limit it is f*cking imbecilic.
You could say the same thing about PED's. Everyone is running faster, hitting the ball harder - that's progress right? I don't know why the tennis world thinks regulating tech is so out there. Most other sports do. FINA banned those swimsuits. Metal baseball bats. Etc etc.

Wooden racquets is silly but they should start phasing out poly strings on grass and faster tourneys to give net play a chance. We would see just how good the pros really are at defence and passing shots.
 

mmk

Hall of Fame
You could say the same thing about PED's. Everyone is running faster, hitting the ball harder - that's progress right? I don't know why the tennis world thinks regulating tech is so out there. Most other sports do. FINA banned those swimsuits. Metal baseball bats. Etc etc.

Wooden racquets is silly but they should start phasing out poly strings on grass and faster tourneys to give net play a chance. We would see just how good the pros really are at defence and passing shots.
Okay, would you then require gut? Or a multi? And if a multi, what types of fibers could it contain, how many individual fibers, etc? Could some of makeup of a multi include some percentage of poly? Would PEEK (Zyex) be acceptable? It is a poly but not a polyester. Would you ban co-poly strings, which have additives to the polyester?
 

penguin

Semi-Pro
You could say the same thing about PED's. Everyone is running faster, hitting the ball harder - that's progress right? I don't know why the tennis world thinks regulating tech is so out there. Most other sports do. FINA banned those swimsuits. Metal baseball bats. Etc etc.

Wooden racquets is silly but they should start phasing out poly strings on grass and faster tourneys to give net play a chance. We would see just how good the pros really are at defence and passing shots.
No thanks. Pre poly post graphite racquet Wimbledon was boring as hell to watch. Current tech and wood/steel era much better to watch. That would be the worst of both worlds. The power of graphite but not the control of poly to counter it. Serve, easy volley, point over- repeat ad nauseam.
 

n8dawg6

Legend
nice corpse thread

if you didnt like watching the nadal/medvedev final, or federer/jokeavich final, i dont know what to do for you. the only adjustment id make is to ban nadal from bouncing the ball before his serve, grabbing his taint, and combing his eyebrows.
 

penguin

Semi-Pro
nice corpse thread

if you didnt like watching the nadal/medvedev final, or federer/jokeavich final, i dont know what to do for you. the only adjustment id make is to ban nadal from bouncing the ball before his serve, grabbing his taint, and combing his eyebrows.
I would double all of those things just to spite you lol
 

stingstang

Semi-Pro
No thanks. Pre poly post graphite racquet Wimbledon was boring as hell to watch. Current tech and wood/steel era much better to watch. That would be the worst of both worlds. The power of graphite but not the control of poly to counter it. Serve, easy volley, point over- repeat ad nauseam.
Wouldn't work that way - courts are slower and balls heavier. You would obviously test it on small tourneys first and find what works.

Agree some great matches recently but that's because we have 3 all time greats in the game chasing records. When they're gone, tennis is gonna be in serious trouble.
 

stingstang

Semi-Pro
No thanks. Pre poly post graphite racquet Wimbledon was boring as hell to watch. Current tech and wood/steel era much better to watch. That would be the worst of both worlds. The power of graphite but not the control of poly to counter it. Serve, easy volley, point over- repeat ad nauseam.
You're making it sound more complex than it is - you just have a list of ATP/ITF approved string materials.
 

racquetreligion

Hall of Fame
dumb idea. The should look at other means to place some limitations. The new rackets only do "so much"...Higher net...shorter courts...No second serve etc may be better alternatives.
Even worse ideas than racquet material limitations. Let the players as humans evolve themselves by using racquet limitations not destroy the game
except for let courts that hardly audible to anyone except the Dumpire.
 

racquetreligion

Hall of Fame
This has nothing to do with wooden rackets. It has everything to do with personalty. The players now, in my opinion, play much more exciting athletic tennis... but their personality is non-existent. People loved to see Mcenroe yell at umps and Connors being a maniac. Nothing like that exists now to attract non-tennis fans.
Wrong, you try swinging heavier balls, heavier racquets and playing BO5 sets at every event
Selfies today stress over social media and only the top 3 oldies leave the selfies in the dust.

Give Nadal, Nole and Fed a 93sq inch racquet and see if they could rule the next gen so easily

the ATP is the most nefarious responsible party for the homogenized era of baseline hackery.
 

racquetreligion

Hall of Fame
I have always questioned why the pro tour doesn't have harder restrictions on racquet size.

It is 135sq inch head size last time I checked, which is an insane leniency.

I would have it set at 105 and maybe even 100.

As for bringing back wood, meaning to ban other materials, it is an impossibility. Not to mention there's too many companies profiting from the use of other materials. ALTHOUGH, wooden racquets were always easier to break/splinter so maybe the manufacturers would like that.
Using Graphite composites is easy for mechanized processes and requires less of it
when you use materials like Graphene, which rules out and eliminates the skill
and manual labor wood requires.

But my take has always been the following

Pro Tour Racquet Limits

90" Pros over 195cm
93" Pros = 185-194cm
95" Pros = 175-185cm
97" Pros = 165-175cm
100" Pros under 165cm

social and non itf, wta or atp players.... no restrictions
Juniors competing in social tennis events....no restrictions
 
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tonylg

Professional
Using easy to mechanized processes and less of it rules out the skill and manual labor wood requires.
but my take has always been the following

Pro Tour Racquet Limits

90" Pros over 195cm
93" Pros = 185-194cm
95" Pros = 175-185cm
97" Pros = 165-175cm
100" Pros under 165cm

social and non itf, wta or atp players.... no restrictions
Juniors competing in non social tennis events....no restrictions
Even that's too complex.

If you're playing an ATP tournament, you do it with a maximum 90 square inch racquet that is at most 27" long. Borg and company could grind with an 80 sq inch head, so that's being generous.

Strings get measured for stiffness and must be no more than 150 pounds/inch. If you wanted to, test for roughness but we all know it's stiffness that is the key.

It really would be that easy.
 

racquetreligion

Hall of Fame
Even that's too complex.

If you're playing an ATP tournament, you do it with a maximum 90 square inch racquet that is at most 27" long. Borg and company could grind with an 80 sq inch head, so that's being generous.

Strings get measured for stiffness and must be no more than 150 pounds/inch. If you wanted to, test for roughness but we all know it's stiffness that is the key.

It really would be that easy.

A simple height measuring scale is all they need nothing complicated about that
then the ATP profiles would not have false information about heights it has atm


Stiffness in string testing is useless as it reflects nothing towards material composition,
behavior or dynamics infinetely more complex as many know that already.
Borg would stand no chance vs Sampras, Edberg, Becker, Mahut and even nutcase Brown let alone McEnroe
and thats is one main reason he retired, Macca. The reality is Nadal would not win anything with a 93, Fed and Nole can.



Examples of players for example using fair racquet sizes

Diego, Albot and Nishioka using 98 sq
Dimitrov using 93
Evans and Kohls using 95


For Women not that I care but Williams should not be using 104
but WTA uses faster balls and rallies dont last as long
hence so many GS winners (mood swings inclusive)
However women should be playing BO3 8 game sets
 
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onehandbh

Legend
Using easy to mechanized processes and less of it rules out the skill and manual labor wood requires.
but my take has always been the following

Pro Tour Racquet Limits

90" Pros over 195cm
93" Pros = 185-194cm
95" Pros = 175-185cm
97" Pros = 165-175cm
100" Pros under 165cm

social and non itf, wta or atp players.... no restrictions
Juniors competing in non social tennis events....no restrictions
Sweet!
Would a 14 year old, 130cm tall kid turning pro get to use a 180” racquet?
 

Jster

Professional
The stringers will complain.... To string a woody under 960 seconds is very challenging and demandingunless they are "best friend forever" with Dr strange to borrow his eye of agamotto.
On top of that, assuming they are using paint jobs of an even older woodie will fry stringers' brain when identify the string pattern/drilling pattern. Ron/Lucien/Nori will kill them if they start stringing from bottom to top on the woodies (most cases)
 

racquetreligion

Hall of Fame
So you had to drag up an old thread from 2016 just to tell us that!
So you had to drag up an old thread from 2016 just to tell us that!
Its called still since 2002-3 (homogenized measures introduced for serve bot fear)
edit- also balls made fluffier and slower to let the rest of the tour catch up to
Fed and Rafa because they took all the big ATP titles in one year!

Tired of modern delay of point conclusions

Tired of Dumpires calling "let" for inaudible human frequencies
only picked up by a Ai.

Tired of not seeing creative offensive tennis win more than 1% of points in a match.

Tired of rule breakers by 100sq inches swinging rear scratching cheats

Tired of seeing fast surfaces getting slower every year to allow more ad revenues
 
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BH40love

Rookie
How is it different to other sports? Baseball has changed ,basketball has changed (3pt line) , football (equipment rules) I’m confused how tennis is any different
 

Wise one

Hall of Fame
How is it different to other sports? Baseball has changed ,basketball has changed (3pt line) , football (equipment rules) I’m confused how tennis is any different

Those changes are not to equipment, are they? Lowering the pitcher's mound is about the only change that affects the game. In baseball, wood bats are required. Why are corked bats illegal? Why are there limits on pine tar?

 

BH40love

Rookie
Those changes are not to equipment, are they? Lowering the pitcher's mound is about the only change that affects the game. In baseball, wood bats are required. Why are corked bats illegal? Why are there limits on pine tar?

The equipment hasn’t changed for those sports too? Football and baseball have seen changes to the equipment used too. It’s just that tennis you only need one piece of equipment
 

ron schaap

Professional
The equipment hasn’t changed for those sports too? Football and baseball have seen changes to the equipment used too. It’s just that tennis you only need one piece of equipment
In golf the woodies are made of wood until 100 years ago instead of graphite and high grade metal now and really no one regrets that one bit. Lol lol lol..Its all high tech when the stakes are high. And what about skiing! Have you ever someone hear complain that they should go back to pure wooden skis they had before World war2?
 
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Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
I'd love to see at least one tour level wood racquet tournament a year. Will never happen though. The pros would probably hurt themselves.
 

Winners or Errors

Hall of Fame
In golf the woodies are made of wood until 100 years ago instead of graphite and high grade metal now and really no one regrets that one bit. Lol lol lol..Its all high tech when the stakes are high. And what about skiing! Have you ever someone hear complain that they should go back to pure wooden skis they had before World war2?
...which is why they’ve had to ruin every golf course in the world. Sometimes change has negative effects.
 

ron schaap

Professional
I'd love to see at least one tour level wood racquet tournament a year. Will never happen though. The pros would probably hurt themselves.
Would be funnier though if they would be allowed only one racquet, then they would have to use very durable strings as we had to 40 years ago ;)
 

netlets

Semi-Pro
excellent point! similarly, I always laugh hysterically when Navratilova bags on racquet tech since she was one of the first to hop on the graphite racquet bandwagon.

furthermore, does anyone believe that the racquet companies would really allow this sort of thing to happen without resistance? they're making way to much moolah currently to just go along with this sort of a change. it would be way too difficult to pj a tweener to look like a pro's 70" stick (and that is assuming that the pros don't go back to the monoshaft woodies). if the racquet companies aren't going to make money, they would dump their pro endorsers wholesale and could even reduce the money they pump into tournaments.

and as far as tv audience goes, do you think anyone less than the most diehard of tennis fans will sit through matches of mishits, shanks, and 2 stroke rallys? the general public, it seems to me, likes the long rallies. when was the last time you saw a crowd give a 3 minute standing ovation to an ace or a serve-return- volley point?

this sounds very bad for the game to me...
I'm not for going back to wood, but I would like to see an all wood tournament. BTW, your post doesn't really add up. If pros were using wood the rallies would be long and you would have more strategy. You can't just hit a winner or passing shot from 10 feet behind the baseline on the run. It takes more ability to play with wood racquets strung with gut or a multi than it does with graphite and poly. I'm not convinced it wouldn't weed out the muscle guys on tour that base their game on big serves and huge groundstrokes for winners from behind the baseline. What I would love to see is the actual tennis IQ of some of the tour players that can't just grip it and rip it. The best athletes and highest tennis IQ players would certainly have a big advantage. Big serves would still be big, but wouldn't be nearly as big as with poly and graphite.
 

netlets

Semi-Pro
Do you think the current racquets do not offer much advantage?
Do you think a 12 oz wood racquet has the same power and spin as a
12 oz Babolat Pure Drive?

I accidentally had poly put in my Jack Kramer wood racquet.
I'd say it was a bit wimpier than a PD w/poly...

Try this test:
Play a friend that you normally split sets with or that can beat you but barely.
Play one match with a wood racquet and one with your regular racquet.
Let us know what the scores are.
Exactly. As if people didn't have good technique in prior generations? C'mon. Rafa would not have Rafa's game without poly and graphite. He would be a very different type of player with wood and multi. No way would he be hitting passing shots on the run 20 feet behind the baseline. Also, his topspin would not bounce nearly as high without poly and graphite. Borg and Lendl had excellent technique. Many players now stand parallel to the baseline to serve like Mac when no-one else used to. Borg's topspin was emulated, etc. I would love to see a variety of surface speeds to promote a different skill set. You shouldn't be able to play the same way at Wimbledon as you do at the French Open, especially the second week. Maybe banning poly would be good as well. Remember when Guga showed up with poly and won the French as basically a player not many people knew about. He had poly and no-one else did. AND HE WON ROLAND GARROS. I remember Mac saying how unreal it was that Guga was hitting the shots he was from way behind the baseline. If that doesn't tell you how much the game has changed due to poly I don't know what will! Everyone ran to get some after that. I think poly is more the culprit than wood.
 

tonylg

Professional
Exactly. As if people didn't have good technique in prior generations? C'mon. Rafa would not have Rafa's game without poly and graphite. He would be a very different type of player with wood and multi. No way would he be hitting passing shots on the run 20 feet behind the baseline. Also, his topspin would not bounce nearly as high without poly and graphite. Borg and Lendl had excellent technique. Many players now stand parallel to the baseline to serve like Mac when no-one else used to. Borg's topspin was emulated, etc. I would love to see a variety of surface speeds to promote a different skill set. You shouldn't be able to play the same way at Wimbledon as you do at the French Open, especially the second week. Maybe banning poly would be good as well. Remember when Guga showed up with poly and won the French as basically a player not many people knew about. He had poly and no-one else did. AND HE WON ROLAND GARROS. I remember Mac saying how unreal it was that Guga was hitting the shots he was from way behind the baseline. If that doesn't tell you how much the game has changed due to poly I don't know what will! Everyone ran to get some after that. I think poly is more the culprit than wood.
Most casual observers have no idea why no-one plays attacking tennis anymore. They certainly don't know it's strings.

The fan base of those who rely on poly to play want to believe their heros are freaks, so can't accept that they are primarily advantaged by equipment, not talent.

On here it's mostly about blindly supporting whoever your hero is. There's very little intelligent tennis discussion. Before you are shouted down by the masses, let me thank you for your posts.
 

ron schaap

Professional
Even that's too complex.

If you're playing an ATP tournament, you do it with a maximum 90 square inch racquet that is at most 27" long. Borg and company could grind with an 80 sq inch head, so that's being generous.

Strings get measured for stiffness and must be no more than 150 pounds/inch. If you wanted to, test for roughness but we all know it's stiffness that is the key.

It really would be that easy.
I think its easier and much fairer to limit the lenght of the player instead of his equipment, lol, lol :happydevil:
 
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