The real reason why Medvedev won, and why Djoko looked like that

lordlosh

Semi-Pro
I see many threads, many opinion, but not a single one from someone who obviously pay attention to the details and have an eye for it. Here it is folks:

Medvedev was absolutely prefect tactically and his gameplan left Djokovic speechless.
- Firstable Medvedev didn't gave Djokovic any rhythm/momentum.

2 - Medvedev played smart and didn't try to crack the ball, but on the contrary return it regularly at different speed and in different ways, 3-4 times flat balls, and then topspin with high bouncing, and this ruined Joko's rhythm.

3 - You don't beat Djokovic with a shootout(yeah it can happen, but you got to be perfect, and it's harder), but by giving him no rhythm/momentum at all, and you have to use diversity. It might not look like that from the outside, but Medvedev definitely had played with great variety in his game.

4 - It's obvious from people that have an eye, that Djoko prefer/likes/love to eat his opponent pace, and use them against them, but Medvedev was genius and didn't let that happen. Purely and simple Medvedev didn't use much pace on his shots(when he does it, he was finishing the ball, not try to pressure him, but score a clear winner, which is the right thing), didn't push the ball hard, and try to outshoot Djoko, he was actually playing with Novak pace, and actually make Novak use force for his shots, which obviously going to waste you more energy. And we all know Djoko have hard schedule this year.

5 - Another very important aspect of Medvedev tactical gameplan was to not allow Djokovic to use his other strength sides, like using the angles, which he is so so good at. Medvedev was playing very deep balls in the center part, which makes it incredible hard for Djoko to make angles and move Medvedev left-right on the court. This also kills Djoko rhythm totally. Djoko doesn't have much options, he couldn't outpace Medvedev with high pace stronger shots, he can't create angles, and can' get into a decent rhythm.

6 - Medvedev did a good job tactically how to return Djokovic Serve. He was 5 meters away from the line, and did a good job returning most of Djoko serve back in play. Djoko didn't get an easy points, and was put under pressure in most of his serve game. This help big time with disrupting your opponents serve, and to make him miss more first serve, by going for more with it.

7 - Medvedev serve, it obviously Medvedev did his homework how to serve and get the most of it, against a brilliant returner like Djoko. This pretty much allow him to not feel much pressure on his own game, but actually put more back on Novak.

8 - Another very, very important aspect with the no rhythm/momentum was the insane fast pace that Medvedev impose. This is why i have talking how important is the time between the points, and what a cheat this thing is.
Medvedev was serving lightning fast. Zero time for rest, zero time for recovery, fast serving games, and your opponent is back on serve, more pressure on him. This allow for not turning the match into a physical battle, and turning the match into a war. And this also help Medvedev to pretty much not thinking on what's going on. You are not overthinking, playing to your tactics and instintcs and not overdo it.

And finally Medvedev also show great nerves of steel, but this is absolutely necessary to win the big titles. If you don't have one, just work with sport psychologist, understand what makes you cooldown in the tense moments, and even how to breath properly, and to let the stress out. There is million techniques out there, and breathing is probably the easiest an the simplest.

Djoko looked like that, because of Medvedev genius tactical gameplan. Medvedev game may not have the beauty of technique, but it's a brilliant in tactical way.
And this is what i wanna see way more from the newcomers and actual tactical gameplan, and how to actually win matches. Not i will try to outshot him, and when it's not happening, they have no Plan B, and keep repeating the same, and keep losing.
 

Rudiiii

Rookie
Yeah, change of pace had effect on role, but I still think if 1st serve was like 5% better Med had no chance. That with semi final took it's tool
 

galain

Hall of Fame
Djokovic was off and Meddie was playing really well. I didn't think it'd happen like that. I really believed that to beat Djokovic, it would take a player who would be able to overpower him, because he anticipates so well. That was Zverev for me, not Medvedev. But full credit to him - it's a well deserved win.
 

TheAssassin

Legend
Djokovic will rue some of the chances, he had clear opening in some return games, especially the second set. Could have been a match for the ages on another day. But Medvedev did his job perfectly apart from those two consecutive doubles when he served for the title the first time. Easily the best performance anyone from his generation has ever delivered up to this point...
 

guga_fan

Semi-Pro
Djokovic will rue some of the chances, he had clear opening in some return games, especially the second set. Could have been a match for the ages on another day. But Medvedev did his job perfectly apart from those two consecutive doubles when he served for the title the first time. Easily the best performance anyone from his generation has ever delivered up to this point...
It’s the best performance of his gen in GS if Thiem is not considered as sharing a generation with Med. Thiem had very impressive wins against Djokovic and Nadal playing better than we saw yesterday.
 

TennisManiac

Hall of Fame
I see many threads, many opinion, but not a single one from someone who obviously pay attention to the details and have an eye for it. Here it is folks:

Medvedev was absolutely prefect tactically and his gameplan left Djokovic speechless.
- Firstable Medvedev didn't gave Djokovic any rhythm/momentum.

2 - Medvedev played smart and didn't try to crack the ball, but on the contrary return it regularly at different speed and in different ways, 3-4 times flat balls, and then topspin with high bouncing, and this ruined Joko's rhythm.

3 - You don't beat Djokovic with a shootout(yeah it can happen, but you got to be perfect, and it's harder), but by giving him no rhythm/momentum at all, and you have to use diversity. It might not look like that from the outside, but Medvedev definitely had played with great variety in his game.

4 - It's obvious from people that have an eye, that Djoko prefer/likes/love to eat his opponent pace, and use them against them, but Medvedev was genius and didn't let that happen. Purely and simple Medvedev didn't use much pace on his shots(when he does it, he was finishing the ball, not try to pressure him, but score a clear winner, which is the right thing), didn't push the ball hard, and try to outshoot Djoko, he was actually playing with Novak pace, and actually make Novak use force for his shots, which obviously going to waste you more energy. And we all know Djoko have hard schedule this year.

5 - Another very important aspect of Medvedev tactical gameplan was to not allow Djokovic to use his other strength sides, like using the angles, which he is so so good at. Medvedev was playing very deep balls in the center part, which makes it incredible hard for Djoko to make angles and move Medvedev left-right on the court. This also kills Djoko rhythm totally. Djoko doesn't have much options, he couldn't outpace Medvedev with high pace stronger shots, he can't create angles, and can' get into a decent rhythm.

6 - Medvedev did a good job tactically how to return Djokovic Serve. He was 5 meters away from the line, and did a good job returning most of Djoko serve back in play. Djoko didn't get an easy points, and was put under pressure in most of his serve game. This help big time with disrupting your opponents serve, and to make him miss more first serve, by going for more with it.

7 - Medvedev serve, it obviously Medvedev did his homework how to serve and get the most of it, against a brilliant returner like Djoko. This pretty much allow him to not feel much pressure on his own game, but actually put more back on Novak.

8 - Another very, very important aspect with the no rhythm/momentum was the insane fast pace that Medvedev impose. This is why i have talking how important is the time between the points, and what a cheat this thing is.
Medvedev was serving lightning fast. Zero time for rest, zero time for recovery, fast serving games, and your opponent is back on serve, more pressure on him. This allow for not turning the match into a physical battle, and turning the match into a war. And this also help Medvedev to pretty much not thinking on what's going on. You are not overthinking, playing to your tactics and instintcs and not overdo it.

And finally Medvedev also show great nerves of steel, but this is absolutely necessary to win the big titles. If you don't have one, just work with sport psychologist, understand what makes you cooldown in the tense moments, and even how to breath properly, and to let the stress out. There is million techniques out there, and breathing is probably the easiest an the simplest.

Djoko looked like that, because of Medvedev genius tactical gameplan. Medvedev game may not have the beauty of technique, but it's a brilliant in tactical way.
And this is what i wanna see way more from the newcomers and actual tactical gameplan, and how to actually win matches. Not i will try to outshot him, and when it's not happening, they have no Plan B, and keep repeating the same, and keep losing.
Yep. I agree with all of this.
 

TennisManiac

Hall of Fame
OP, how do you explain Djokovic netting a bunch of absolute floaters? (which was what Med's dropshots looked like yesterday)

Med was good and played smart, but let's not pretend Novak was close to his usual norm. You'd be generous to call it his B-game.
He was netting those shots because Med had him all out of sorts. Don't try to come up with poor excuses. We all watched the match.
 

urban

Legend
Med reminds me a bit on Mecir, with his ability to change pace and manoever the other guy around with deceptive play and good angles. He has of course a way better serve of course, The weak serve was Mecirs downfall, otherwise he would have won on all surfaces, probably RG, Wim and USO.
 

lordlosh

Semi-Pro
OP, how do you explain Djokovic netting a bunch of absolute floaters? (which was what Med's dropshots looked like yesterday)

Med was good and played smart, but let's not pretend Novak was close to his usual norm. You'd be generous to call it his B-game.
Easy, with lack of good rhythm and momentum to his game. This happen, when your opponent not give you any rhythm, and then you suddenly looks like a crap, and miss easy balls.
That's why Djoko was bouncing so much when he was going for the serve/return line. He just didn't get any rhythm. He was super, super cold.
 

lordlosh

Semi-Pro
Yeah, change of pace had effect on role, but I still think if 1st serve was like 5% better Med had no chance. That with semi final took it's tool
AgaIn his serve s***** mainly because of Medvedev going so so much out, and pretty much returned everything, and Djokovic couldn't get an easy points off it, that's why he was playing so much serve and net. The thing is, Djoko did not adapt and did not go even more for it, instead he was over pushing it.
I already stated this, that Djokovic was trying to get for more with his serve, because of Medvedev deep return position.
Again, this a tactical masterpiece from Medvedev.
 

myth

Professional
To be fair, Novak played horrible but that doesn't take anything away from Medvedev. It was coming.
Novak is 10 years older than Medvedev played 6 hours more than Medvedev played the 2nd semi-final had a tougher draw.....
No legs no win against Medvedev on HC as simple as that.

Even Novak playing close to his best, the match would have been close.
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic played his worst Slam final since W13 - this explains straight sets loss for me. Not saying that Djokovic would have won if he was able to bring his best. But he wouldn't get destroyed 4,4,4 for sure.
 

lordlosh

Semi-Pro
Djokovic was off and Meddie was playing really well. I didn't think it'd happen like that. I really believed that to beat Djokovic, it would take a player who would be able to overpower him, because he anticipates so well. That was Zverev for me, not Medvedev. But full credit to him - it's a well deserved win.
Why didn't he was OFF, against Zverev or Berrettini? Because they absolutely have no idea how to tactically play against Djokovic. They pretty much play the same for the whole match, and that's why Djokovic sooner or later adapt to their game, and he just outplay them after that.
Medvedev didn't gave him that. I have always stated that, the easiest way to beat Djokovic is to not give him rhythm and momentum at all, and also use your game with great variety.
Musetti was playing with great variety in the first 2 sets against Djoko at RG, and the result was clear.

Tsitsipas tried to outgrind Djokovic, but Djoko adapt, and Tsitsipas get tired, because of his game, and that require a lot of effort for his shots. Berrettini at RG in the third and the forth was absolutely in the zone and try to outshot Djokovic, and he eats it.

Federer always do great against Djokovic, when he is playing with great variety, and doesn't give Djoko rhythm and you squeeze a lot of UE from Djoko that way. There was few matches at the ATP finals where Federer was playing with insane variety and Djoko had no rhythm and looked like ******, and Fed won this easy. When Federer try to outgrind him, he pretty much always lost, let's call it a close call.
 

myth

Professional
Djokovic played his worst Slam final since W13 - this explains straight sets loss for me. Not saying that Djokovic would have won if he was able to bring his best. But he wouldn't get destroyed 4,4,4 for sure.
USO 12 13 16 FO 15 20 were really bad as well.....It happens....Can't win every time.
 

WarrenMP

Professional
It was clear that Djokovic was a bit fatigued. You can see it in his strokes and game strategy. He was serving and volleying more than usual at first. He was committed to the extended rallies. It look like nerves had a factored, but the fatigue made it worst. I haven't seen Djokovic play with low energy. It was weird seeing that match. Medvedev probably would have won, but he would had to earn it alittle harder if Djokovic was 100%.
 

lordlosh

Semi-Pro
Yeah some people just don't understand the game, and that's it. You don't just win the first 3 GS title, and knocking in the door of history, and suddenly out of nowhere you play like a completely s****.
You are playing as much as your opponents allow you.
Yes there is matches, where the one player, have a great day, and other just have terrible, and not deliver, but this match was very, very different from that.
But you to understand the tactical part of the game, and to have an eye for it.

Without to insult someone, a lot of people here have no clue, they just pump hard, and claiming he is the greatest, or he is the greatest, he destroy x and y, he is the best, and all that kind of b.c. posts all around.
No one even comment why x or y result happen, what was the reason for it.

I was shocked to see no one comment, on all the point i mention, and especially the VERY obviously ones, like the very fast serving on Medvedev side, as well as Medvedev constantly playing deep ball in the center part. This was SO SO obviously a huge tactical plan, not just put the ball back in play.

Where was the Djokovic usual angles? Where was the Djokovic usable use of his opponent pace to math him ? Nowhere to be seen, cause Medvedev didn't give him any of that. He didn't gave him any space to play his angle, he didn't have him any pace, so Djokovic to use it.

Medvedev just totally outshine Djokovic tactically. That was a flawless tactical performance. If people can't see that, their tennis knowledge is just lacking.
 

aldeayeah

Legend
He was netting those shots because Med had him all out of sorts. Don't try to come up with poor excuses. We all watched the match.
What excuses? I'm a Med fan and definitely not a Djokovic fan.

I call things as I see them, and to me Djokovic was subpar, period.

Djokovic on a good day isn't a player you can throw off so easily. Otherwise Fed would lead the H2H.
 
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Rudiiii

Rookie
AgaIn his serve s***** mainly because of Medvedev going so so much out, and pretty much returned everything, and Djokovic couldn't get an easy points off it, that's why he was playing so much serve and net. The thing is, Djoko did not adapt and did not go even more for it, instead he was over pushing it.
I already stated this, that Djokovic was trying to get for more with his serve, because of Medvedev deep return position.
Again, this a tactical masterpiece from Medvedev.
Djokovic won 80% of first serve, but served only 50%. I mean it is not up to Med whethever Nole serves in or out? Those are some qualifications %..Med was little better like 60% of first serve and also won 80%, but served like crazy which can't be said for Djokovic. Pressure exposed bad sides of both, especially Nole.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
Your post sums up for me why I'm glad Med won and not just for the obvious reasons.

The reason he is able to put together a gameplan like that and make it work is because he's put the work in! When he goes on a run like he did in the '19 Hard Court season that's where he gains the experience and knowledge. More than the others he is there or thereabouts on a consistent basis and he learns.

The contrast with Tsitisipas who had a great clay season and has followed it up by becoming better known for his weak bladder than his tennis is fairly obvious.

Med earned this win over two years and should enjoy it.
 

lordlosh

Semi-Pro
Djokovic won 80% of first serve, but served only 50%. I mean it is not up to Med whethever Nole serves in or out? Those are some qualifications %..Med was little better like 60% of first serve and also won 80%, but served like crazy which can't be said for Djokovic. Pressure exposed bad sides of both, especially Nole.
Is it that hard to get it ? You are missing more % of your first when you are trying to get for more, is that hard to get ? This should be common sense.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Med did everything he had to do to win. But to pretend like it was some tactical masterclass is hilarious. He was just doing his normal thing.

Novak lost because he was nervous and couldn't hit his serve the whole match. That led to him overthinking and pressing in those return games, which is how he missed so many easy shots (for him). It's not that complicated.
 

Julian Houston

Semi-Pro
To beat Med yesterday requires to have Fedal's forehand going for attacking shots and opening angles then going to net to finish points. Djokovic dislike to play aggressively hence the game plan works.
 

lordlosh

Semi-Pro
Yeah keep trying with the excuses, it's getting pathetic. If you cannot see the clear sign, hell i even write every single thing on his tactical plan, that was so obvious, then there is no savior for you. :D
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
He successfully blocked the early second set soul-steal at 0-40 :cool:
This is it. For all the “analysis” had Novak won a point there the whole match could have shifted. Sometimes we forget how much very small changes can result in very different outcomes and exaggerate the implications. Like how Fed, for some, would have gone from world class choker to undisputed GOAT if only one of his serves at 40-15 had moved a couple of inches.
 

Julian Houston

Semi-Pro
Its always the same tactics to beat Djokovic. Wawrinka used to great effect.

1) Serve well
2) Rally him to center of court with slightly more power then wait for him to change direction, but return back to center. Usually Djoko change direction a little to bait the opponent to play angles. He is good against angle shots.
 

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
Yes, I noticed that Med was rushing Djokovic by serving very quickly after bouncing the ball just once or twice. This was brilliant. Federer was a master at this.

When I played tennis, I did the same to not give my opponent time to think and figure out where I was gonna serve. I sometimes wouldn't even bounce the ball before serving quickly. My serve was bad though. But by rushing my opponent, I got very cheap points off the serve many times. Sometimes it was laughable they'd try to return it like it was a big serve when in reality it would have been at no more than 100 mph speed.

This has the same affect as taking more time to disrupt your opponent's rhythm. But rushing your opponent is generally the more acceptable of the two. ATP has a rule against taking too much time but not against a 5 second serve. And if you can do it, why not try it!
 

guga_fan

Semi-Pro
Med did everything he had to do to win. But to pretend like it was some tactical masterclass is hilarious. He was just doing his normal thing.

Novak lost because he was nervous and couldn't hit his serve the whole match. That led to him overthinking and pressing in those return games, which is how he missed so many easy shots (for him). It's not that complicated.
One of the most telling things for me was how he started to serve and volley so early in the match when only down a single break. It was clear he did not want to win the points by long rallies. In Australia, he just kept his stronghold from the baseline for most of the match, even when Med went up a break in a set.

And, just as some users pointed out this year, Djokovic's percentage of return games won is steadily declining these past few years. There are many tournaments nowadays where he has one or two great returning performances, but many blunders in between.
 
This was all related to court time. Med played ok. His serving was great. But let’s face it, when’s the last time djokovic looked that bad ? LOL. Hell he looked like a country club player yesterday. Dude had zero legs. It gave me flashbacks of the 2001 Us open final where Sampras was burnt to a crisp and could only play one set physically

Djoker would have lost to berretini yesterday with that level
Djoker looked like Nadal that final set at the French this past year. He wasn’t even going for the balls

I put $100 on Djoker for the Australian now. He’s gonna be a rabid dog there now looking for Revenge. And he won’t be blowing sets left and right this time. I won’t be surprised if djoker doesn’t serve breadsticks all the way through
 
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Omega_7000

Legend
This was all related to court time. Med played ok. His serving was great. But let’s face it, when’s the last time djokovic looked that bad ? LOL. Hell he looked like a country club player yesterday. Dude had zero legs. It gave me flashbacks of the 2001 Us open final where Sampras was burnt to a crisp and could only play one set physically

Djoker would have lost to berretini yesterday with that level
Djoker looked like Nadal that final set at the French this past year. He wasn’t even going for the balls. I won’t be surprised if djoker doesn’t serve breadsticks all the way through

I put $100 on Djoker for the Australian now. He’s gonna be a rabid dog there now looking for Revenge. And he won’t be blowing sets left and right this time
Djokovic wasn't there physically which is why Med won but losing to Berrettini? LOL...Let's not take it too far.
 

lordlosh

Semi-Pro
More excuses. Djokovic would have never lost to different player than Medvedev, because they don't play tactically right against Djoko.
Djoko was going for the net play, because Medvedev was standing in the crowd on return. This could have worked, if Djoko net game was way better, and he actually have any rhythm into his game.
Djokovic see that he can't do s**** from the baseline, and that's why he decide to change something.
He didn't have any problem playing insanely long matches at way harder surfaces in clay, and let's not forget that he played a tournament right before RG, so he literally has zero rest, and then played multiple insane hard matches, and he still manage to turn Tsitsipas from 2-0, and had show ZERO physically wear in that match.
He also have zero wear in Zverev match.
But suddenly he was tired in the very first set. :D
Yeah it's so fun with all of this excuses.
No gentlements it was all Medvedev tactical masterpiece, just accept it !!!

And don't make me laugh with Berrettini that guy has only his Serve. You send 2 balls to his BH side, and he is producing error after error. And he don't even know how to disrupt someone momentum. You actually embarrass yourself with that ridiculous excuses attempt.

It's good to see at least some people with a little bit of brain, that see the certain tactical tricks that Medvedev used, like the fast serves and playing deep in the center line, to not give Djokovic chance to play his angle game.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
One of the most telling things for me was how he started to serve and volley so early in the match when only down a single break. It was clear he did not want to win the points by long rallies. In Australia, he just kept his stronghold from the baseline for most of the match, even when Med went up a break in a set.

And, just as some users pointed out this year, Djokovic's percentage of return games won is steadily declining these past few years. There are many tournaments nowadays where he has one or two great returning performances, but many blunders in between.
Yeah I understood it. Made no sense to waste energy on your serve games when already down. No need to play Med's game if you don't have to. And especially when he was volleying do incredibly. That seemed to disappear down the stretch, but for at least a set and a half his net game was unstoppable.
 

Rudiiii

Rookie
More excuses. Djokovic would have never lost to different player than Medvedev, because they don't play tactically right against Djoko.
Djoko was going for the net play, because Medvedev was standing in the crowd on return. This could have worked, if Djoko net game was way better, and he actually have any rhythm into his game.
Djokovic see that he can't do s**** from the baseline, and that's why he decide to change something.
He didn't have any problem playing insanely long matches at way harder surfaces in clay, and let's not forget that he played a tournament right before RG, so he literally has zero rest, and then played multiple insane hard matches, and he still manage to turn Tsitsipas from 2-0, and had show ZERO physically wear in that match.
He also have zero wear in Zverev match.
But suddenly he was tired in the very first set. :D
Yeah it's so fun with all of this excuses.
No gentlements it was all Medvedev tactical masterpiece, just accept it !!!

And don't make me laugh with Berrettini that guy has only his Serve. You send 2 balls to his BH side, and he is producing error after error. And he don't even know how to disrupt someone momentum. You actually embarrass yourself with that ridiculous excuses attempt.

It's good to see at least some people with a little bit of brain, that see the certain tactical tricks that Medvedev used, like the fast serves and playing deep in the center line, to not give Djokovic chance to play his angle game.
Don't agree, Djokovic clearly choked at most important moments, either pressure or he got tired after Zverev match. Med played same way through out the whole match, serve didn't betray him literally till the last two games(crowd fault) and that made the difference. Tactic wasn't brilliant you know it works againts Djokovic, but you need to zone your serves and expect Djokovic to miss on big points. Don't bring up CCpas match, as he crambled after two sets.
 

nam416

New User
There might be yet another reason why Med prevailed. Maybe they improved the drug testing process and finally caught Numero Uno out? Then the powers that be were not willing to shine the light on the transgression (because something like this coming out not only blights the offender - the entire sport will have to wear it), and cut a deal with the man: we say nothing, and you roll over in your next match. How else do you explain the betting on Med's win going through the roof, just a day before the match?
 

lordlosh

Semi-Pro
Don't agree, Djokovic clearly choked at most important moments, either pressure or he got tired after Zverev match. Med played same way through out the whole match, serve didn't betray him literally till the last two games(crowd fault) and that made the difference. Tactic wasn't brilliant you know it works againts Djokovic, but you need to zone your serves and expect Djokovic to miss on big points. Don't bring up CCpas match, as he crambled after two sets.
You may not agree or agree or whatever, because you are either bias, or have hard time to understand it, but it's 100% true.
Easiest example i will give you, it's Roddick against Federer and the rest. Again the rest he manage to squeeze way way more aces. Against Federer he was always lacking compare to the rest, because Federer at his prime have great feeling and reflexes where to go to manage to react on the big serve.
Same with Nadal manage to squeeze so many return back in play, and so many people aces are cut twice or more, because of his position. And they see the aces are not coming, and they are going for more.
It's simple as that.
Just swallowed it, Medvedev totally destroy Djokovic tactically.
Djokovic played like a crap, cause of Medvedev genius tactical approach.
 
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