The Shape Of Things To Come: Denis Shapovalov!

stringertom

Bionic Poster
I used to say "who will show up; good-Shapo or bad-Shapo, good Shapo has a chance." Now I have confidence good-Shapo will show up and give a good show of himself. I'm expecting he will beat Nadal so bad that Nadal will cry like a little girl and retire from tennis at the end of the match. I've been wrong before though.
“Who will show up?” Not The Nadal.

NCH #15.
 

James P

Hall of Fame
Looking ahead to ATP Cup, Shapo will be facing Zverev, Tsitsipas, and de Minaur in RR in January. Those should be fun matches to watch.
 

Pmasterfunk

Semi-Pro
I hope Dennis doesn't brain fart his way through his next match like he did against Fed in... Miami?

Djokovic wasn't that great against Dimitrov today, lots of errors off the forehand. If Shapo is on, it would make for a great opportunity to beat the #1.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
I hope Dennis doesn't brain fart his way through his next match like he did against Fed in... Miami?

Djokovic wasn't that great against Dimitrov today, lots of errors off the forehand. If Shapo is on, it would make for a great opportunity to beat the #1.
Yes, Miami SF and his first match vs his idol...total deer in the headlights.

Although it’s 0-3 h2h, Denis will be prepared better to play Joe Kovic. Hopefully, Set 3 AO level, not Set 4.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
If it turns out like the WTA, he might actually play!
Which was it today? A WD to be ready for London or a strain bad enough that Nadal is a no-show or an early WD there too?

The rest of the field will be chomping at their bits to play:

Joe Kovic and fedr trying to get #7 and #6 titles

Medvedev and Thiem to get close or pass fedr for #3 ranking entering AO. For Daniil, also a first appearance there will motivate.

Newcomers Tsitsipas and Berrettini share in Daniil’s enthusiasm for a premiere.

Zedraffe, to prove 2018 was no fluke.

I think there will be only one alternate max.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster

guitarra

Professional
Interesting statistics: Novak Djokovic VS Mikhail Youzhny
Yep had 3 wins out of 10 matches, which is considerable. And all those three win were incredible fights.
The interesting thing about it is Youzhny won only 3 matches but all of them were on indoor HC and Djokovic won none on indoor HC.

And now Paris final will be played on...
 
disappointing final (he was tense!), especially after his great matches earlier this week, but it could also have been worse...
overall, it's definitely a big step forward! (y)

denis will play the new-format davis cup soon, right ?
(with milos and felix ?... or is felix still injured ?) :unsure:
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
yes -also Thiem lost in several 1000 finals before he won IW and Tsitsipas has been in 2 with no wins - not a surprise - it's not easy esp against Novak - meant to say Medvedev lost the first time and won the next two but by that time he'd already made his breakthrough the year before winning smaller tournaments.
 
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prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
disappointing final (he was tense!), especially after his great matches earlier this week, but it could also have been worse...
overall, it's definitely a big step forward! (y)

denis will play the new-format davis cup soon, right ?
(with milos and felix ?... or is felix still injured ?) :unsure:
Felix has said on social media that he expects to play Davis Cup. I agree with your post. A lot of great improvements and steps forward. Progress isn't always linear. I think he also played too much this week with doubles and singles. He looked completely drained.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Felix has said on social media that he expects to play Davis Cup. I agree with your post. A lot of great improvements and steps forward. Progress isn't always linear. I think he also played too much this week with doubles and singles. He looked completely drained.
He got one walkover and an early retirement at 2-2. He should not be drained from that workload. The doubles shouldn’t tap a 20-year-old’s energy level, especially indoors on faster surfaces and in the no-ad/STB format.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Very rare to win the first time. Tsitsipas has been in two and yet to win. Thiem was in several before he won. Medvedev has been in one and lost. What were people expecting? It's a great step forward for a 20 year old.
Active players who won Masters titles at their first attempt. In alphabetical order:

1. Berdych (2005 Paris, b. Ljubicic)
2. Cilic (2016 Cincinnati, b. Murray)
3. Dimitrov (2017 Cincinnati, b. Kyrgios)
4. Fognini (2019 Monte Carlo, b. Lajovic)
5. Khachanov (2018 Paris, b. Djokovic)
6. Murray (2008 Cincinnati, b. Djokovic)
7. Robredo (2006 Hamburg, b. Stepanek)
8. Sock (2017 Paris, b. Krajinovic)
9. Tsonga (2008 Paris, b. Nalbandian)
10. Zverev (2017 Rome, b. Djokovic)

Interestingly, none of the Big 3 are on the list.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Active players who won Masters titles at their first attempt. In alphabetical order:

1. Berdych (2005 Paris, b. Ljubicic)
2. Cilic (2016 Cincinnati, b. Murray)
3. Dimitrov (2017 Cincinnati, b. Kyrgios)
4. Fognini (2019 Monte Carlo, b. Lajovic)
5. Khachanov (2018 Paris, b. Djokovic)
6. Murray (2008 Cincinnati, b. Djokovic)
7. Robredo (2006 Hamburg, b. Stepanek)
8. Sock (2017 Paris, b. Krajinovic)
9. Tsonga (2008 Paris, b. Nalbandian)
10. Zverev (2017 Rome, b. Djokovic)

Interestingly, none of the Big 3 are on the list.
That's weird about Cilic because he had already won a major 2 years earlier, so a valid question would be to ask why it took him so long to play a final, assuming that was his first M1000 final?
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
He got one walkover and an early retirement at 2-2. He should not be drained from that workload. The doubles shouldn’t tap a 20-year-old’s energy level, especially indoors on faster surfaces and in the no-ad/STB format.
Just because you think that, doesn't make it so. He said himself after the Zverev singles match he was really tired. Then played another 3 sets that evening. He's still building his body at 20 years old.
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
That's weird about Cilic because he had already won a major 2 years earlier, so a valid question would be to ask why it took him so long to play a final, assuming that was his first M1000 final?
Yes, that is interesting. Thiem not on the list and neither is Medvedev or Tsitsipas. So, I don't see any shame in losing this match to one of the greatest players ever. If he'd lost to Rublev or Sock or someone of that level I would be disappointed. He also defeated Zverev for the first time this week, then went on to defeat Monfils. Two top tenners in one week. Pretty damn good. And, Fognini is a former top ten of just a short while ago. I am not the least disappointed in him.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Active players who won Masters titles at their first attempt. In alphabetical order:

1. Berdych (2005 Paris, b. Ljubicic)
2. Cilic (2016 Cincinnati, b. Murray)
3. Dimitrov (2017 Cincinnati, b. Kyrgios)
4. Fognini (2019 Monte Carlo, b. Lajovic)
5. Khachanov (2018 Paris, b. Djokovic)
6. Murray (2008 Cincinnati, b. Djokovic)
7. Robredo (2006 Hamburg, b. Stepanek)
8. Sock (2017 Paris, b. Krajinovic)
9. Tsonga (2008 Paris, b. Nalbandian)
10. Zverev (2017 Rome, b. Djokovic)

Interestingly, none of the Big 3 are on the list.
@Mainad -- people endlessly post lists and stats here, but this is one of the most interesting (though esoteric) things posted in this regard. (y)
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
That's weird about Cilic because he had already won a major 2 years earlier, so a valid question would be to ask why it took him so long to play a final, assuming that was his first M1000 final?
Yes, all those players won their maiden M1000 finals.
 

Sparlingo

Hall of Fame
Well a month ago Shapo never won an ATP semi-final and never won a final. He had luck with both those draws but that was preceded by some bad luck in other draws. He didn't show his good form today but he'll get there. There's much to be satisfied about in his progress. It's on to the Davis Cup and there's every reason to be optimistic about Canada's chances there. Pospisil won a challenger again today. I hope Felix gets healthy and Milos, if so a formidable team.
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
Ofcourse it's a high note to end the season on, but it's a disappointing performance in the final nevertheless. In the end it won't mean much more than a 1000.

You'd hope he would play less doubles next year. Especially during 1000s other than IW/Miami
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
@Mainad -- people endlessly post lists and stats here, but this is one of the most interesting (though esoteric) things posted in this regard. (y)
It's literally the least interesting stat I can think of, and almost purely incidental. Winning the first one can simply also mean underperforming in semis, etc.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
For Denis, the Paris Masters 2019 final is a great experience. I have no doubt that in the future Denis reach next final participations at Masters tournaments and maybe even more than that.
Look carefully at Denis. I think he barely shaves. My whole family was like that, slower to grow, not getting a full beard until later. I was still growing a bit at his age. He was listed as 6'0 last year. If anything I'll bet he's over 6'1" now a bit closer to 6'1 and 1/2. This kid is going to get stronger yet, probably still filling out to around age 23 or so.
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
Look carefully at Denis. I think he barely shaves. My whole family was like that, slower to grow, not getting a full beard until later. I was still growing a bit at his age. He was listed as 6'0 last year. If anything I'll bet he's over 6'1" now a bit closer to 6'1 and 1/2. This kid is going to get stronger yet, probably still filling out to around age 23 or so.
He looks pretty wide to me as well but then he's standing next to Djokovic.
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
Pretty wide? ha ha He has really filled out. I agree with Gary that he's 6'1" or taller now. He will continue to grow and develop. Again I keep having to say this (or maybe I just want to); but not too long ago he was going in the wrong direction. Youzny came on - all of a sudden semi-finals, a title, and now another title fight. So, he's going in the right direction. #15 in the world is pretty damn good. Mind you, there are great players ahead of him and a few good ones behind. It will take focused, patient play to keep that ranking and move forward. Not too long ago Felix was ahead of him and now he's #21 in the world. How things change, eh?
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
It means nothing as many go on to brilliant careers without doing so.
Who said they didn't?

This is called obsessing over meaningless details.
Some of us are interested in stats of all kind of things. Given that the subject of first time Masters winners came up I saw it as appropriate to post a list of those active players who fall into that category. That's all.

No need to get your knickers in a twist!
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
For Denis, the Paris Masters 2019 final is a great experience. I have no doubt that in the future Denis reach next final participations at Masters tournaments and maybe even more than that.
Look carefully at Denis. I think he barely shaves. My whole family was like that, slower to grow, not getting a full beard until later. I was still growing a bit at his age. He was listed as 6'0 last year. If anything I'll bet he's over 6'1" now a bit closer to 6'1 and 1/2. This kid is going to get stronger yet, probably still filling out to around age 23 or so.
Joe Kovic is listed at 6’2” and in the picture you can see there is a gap there of at least two inches, no?
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
At his age I was working hard to get to 135 pounds. By age 25 I was 165 and lean. Denis is going to get bigger. ;)
I was very skinny as a teenager but I can't really judge how much I legit filled out cause I'm still tryna drop all the fat from college.

But it can be a disadvantage. Some players clearly move better in their early 20s than later on. Roddick did for example. Del Potro too.
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
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Max G.

Legend
Funny how people overreact on here... Shapovalov has a good win against Zverev, and suddenly he's a major threat to unseat Djokovic. Shapo loses to Djokovic, and now he's done, finished, no talent or tactics or skill.

It was a good week for him. He's playing better than he was before - but not good enough to beat Djokovic, because he's not playing better than the big 3 yet. He took advantage of the draw opportunities he got and got far - the next big test is going to be the AO next year, where if he holds seed he should make at least R4 now and we'll see if he can go further.
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
Funny how people overreact on here... Shapovalov has a good win against Zverev, and suddenly he's a major threat to unseat Djokovic. Shapo loses to Djokovic, and now he's done, finished, no talent or tactics or skill.

It was a good week for him. He's playing better than he was before - but not good enough to beat Djokovic, because he's not playing better than the big 3 yet. He took advantage of the draw opportunities he got and got far - the next big test is going to be the AO next year, where if he holds seed he should make at least R4 now and we'll see if he can go further.
Well said. There will also be high expectations on him which are justified now. He needs to find a way to be more consistent, and not just have a good week here and there. These past few months with Youzhny have really been wonderful, and I hope it continues.
 

Sparlingo

Hall of Fame
I'm wondering if Shapo would have had a chance against Djokovic if had been in the same form as he was against Fognini and Zverev or maybe he was in the same form? Anyway, I'm thinking great things for him next year, if you knock on the door long enough eventually it opens.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
After last week's results Shapo becomes the ONLY player to be ranked within the top 50 in both singles and doubles, that's something.
Also the FIRST player born in 1999 or later to make it to a Masters 1000 final.
And the YOUNGEST since Djokovic to make 4 Masters 1000 Semis
Lead Dog on The Great White North sled AND Top North American ranked player AND could it be he is the youngest YE top North American since Agassi in 1990???
 
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