The Shape Of Things To Come: Denis Shapovalov!

[Move]

Sinner is flat footed compared to Shapo. Not sure if you guys are being disingenuous or just not seeing how much more "up on his toes" Shapo is.

Next you'll tell me Sinner hits flying backhands too?

He may be more "flat footed" (i disagree) but stays way more balanced than Shapos overrated flying backhands, only good for highlight reels. Tennis is a game is a game of control, balance and percentages, something Shapo never seems to learn unfortunately

 

[Joseph_K]

Denis Shapovalov currently has a protected ranking due to his old knee injury, so has direct entry into the main men's singles draw at the Australian Open.

 

[Rovesciarete]

He may be more "flat footed" (i disagree) but stays way more balanced than Shapos overrated flying backhands, only good for highlight reels. Tennis is a game is a game of control, balance and percentages, something Shapo never seems to learn unfortunately

Indeed. Sinner steps in and jumps from time to time to smoke second serves with his backhand in style.

If Shapo starts to slide on a HC anywhere near as well and efficiently as the former junior ski champ you can gladly update me about movement.

 

[Rosstour]

He may be more "flat footed" (i disagree) but stays way more balanced than Shapos overrated flying backhands, only good for highlight reels. Tennis is a game is a game of control, balance and percentages, something Shapo never seems to learn unfortunately

If Sinner didn't stay balanced he would fall over lol

He is not the athlete Shapo is. Shapo's legs are like 2X as thick and actually have hair on them. Sinner is a low-testosterone ectomorph

However, he's a much better player. Ppl seem to think that's what we mean when we say talented and it's not.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

Denis Shapovalov currently has a protected ranking due to his old knee injury, so has direct entry into the main men's singles draw at the Australian Open.

Well, yes, but still should show up on some list

 

[tennis24x7]

He will win couple rounds and exit will take time to come up to tournament fitness.

 

[robyrolfo]

There's always one guy who has a definition of "talent" that doesn't square with anyone else's. lol

Anyone else's? Do you not see the other people in here trying to set you straight?

Find me a clip of Sinner showing this kind of easy power and mobility. Look at the way he moves.

So wait, you found one recent clip of him playing a good point, and that somehow makes your argument? Sinner just beat Djokovic twice in the span of a few weeks, and twice in one day (singles and doubles). You want to tell me he isn't talented?

Just because Shapo looks a little more fluid and natural in his movement (which seems slightly inferior, given his results compared to Sinner's), doesn't mean he has more overall natural talent. Nobody is reaching #4 in the world rankings without a huge amount of both talent AND work ethic.

Sinner is flat footed compared to Shapo. Not sure if you guys are being disingenuous or just not seeing how much more "up on his toes" Shapo is.
Next you'll tell me Sinner hits flying backhands too?

So Shapo's natural gait or running style is somehow the deciding factor? Look how "up on his toes" Tiafoe is. Does that make him a better overall tennis player than Sinner? This isn't track and field.

If Sinner didn't stay balanced he would fall over lol
He is not the athlete Shapo is. Shapo's legs are like 2X as thick and actually have hair on them. Sinner is a low-testosterone ectomorph
However, he's a much better player. Ppl seem to think that's what we mean when we say talented and it's not.

And after a few of us attempt to give you serious responses, you come out with this? Is it supposed to be funny?

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Well, yes, but still should show up on some list

his name is on the list!

Australian Open 2024 entry lists revealed

The Australian Open 2024 singles entry lists have been released, headlined by world No.1s Novak Djokovic and Iga Swiatek.

ausopen.com

(you can leave the DFs in NZ, though...)

 

[Rosstour]

So wait, you found one recent clip of him playing a good point, and that somehow makes your argument? Sinner just beat Djokovic twice in the span of a few weeks, and twice in one day (singles and doubles). You want to tell me he isn't talented?

Just because Shapo looks a little more fluid and natural in his movement (which seems slightly inferior, given his results compared to Sinner's), doesn't mean he has more overall natural talent. Nobody is reaching #4 in the world rankings without a huge amount of both talent AND work ethic.

Talent =\= results

So Shapo's natural gait or running style is somehow the deciding factor? Look how "up on his toes" Tiafoe is. Does that make him a better overall tennis player than Sinner? This isn't track and field.

Sinner is better than both Tiafoe and Shapo easily. But you could also make an argument that Tiafoe is more talented. Sinner is more skilled and works harder. But those guys are more talented and I'm not even sure why that's controversial. It's a credit to Sinner

 

[Move]

Let's focus on Shapo again in this thread, he will play AO, hope he can show some spirit and brilliance

 

[Marius_Hancu]

The Davis Cup on Feb 2-3 2024 as Canada hosts Korea in Montreal.
Tickets on sale at the Tennis Canada site (use Edge for browser). $65/day, $120/2days.

 

[robyrolfo]

Talent =\= results

Sinner is better than both Tiafoe and Shapo easily. But you could also make an argument that Tiafoe is more talented. Sinner is more skilled and works harder. But those guys are more talented and I'm not even sure why that's controversial. It's a credit to Sinner

Talent might not always equal results, but you cannot achieve certain results without it. Maybe Tiafoe and Shapo have a little more natural talent than Sinner, but it sure isn't much, if any at all. He has already done things that they haven't come close to doing, and it's not just because he works harder. The kid is supremely talented.

And I don't see how you can say Sinner is more skilled but less talented. You can't master a skill without talent. You can become proficient, but you can't reach the level of being, say, the fourth best human being on the planet with that skillset.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

Tough AO draw for Shapo: Hurkacz R2, Humbert, Rune etc

 

[Vincent-C]

Tough AO draw for Shapo: Hurkacz R2, Humbert, Rune etc

Yikes!

 

[Joseph_K]

An interesting first-round match for Denis Shapovalov at this year's Australian Open where he will face the 18-year-old Czech qualifier Jakub Mensik, who has risen several hundred places up the rankings in the past year. This will be a first meeting between the two players.

 

[albatros_forehand]

Talent =\= results



Sinner is better than both Tiafoe and Shapo easily. But you could also make an argument that Tiafoe is more talented. Sinner is more skilled and works harder. But those guys are more talented and I'm not even sure why that's controversial. It's a credit to Sinner

Tiafo is what?

 

[ALCARAZWON]

Talent might not always equal results, but you cannot achieve certain results without it. Maybe Tiafoe and Shapo have a little more natural talent than Sinner, but it sure isn't much, if any at all. He has already done things that they haven't come close to doing, and it's not just because he works harder. The kid is supremely talented.

And I don't see how you can say Sinner is more skilled but less talented. You can't master a skill without talent. You can become proficient, but you can't reach the level of being, say, the fourth best human being on the planet with that skillset.

I agree, especially Tiafoe, he seems like a hard-working person, even if his personality is a bit pathetic, he seems like he works hard.
So considering Tiafoe's absolute lack of achievements (compared to Sinner), I think he's WAY less talented than Sinner.
I think people are confusing talent with entertaining techniques, because Denis and Tiafoe are known for having entertaining techniques.

 

[ALCARAZWON]

Talent =\= results



Sinner is better than both Tiafoe and Shapo easily. But you could also make an argument that Tiafoe is more talented. Sinner is more skilled and works harder. But those guys are more talented and I'm not even sure why that's controversial. It's a credit to Sinner

Having a fancy technique doesn't make you especially talented.
Its just a gimmick, and Tiafoe has that gimmick, and so does Denis.
Sinner appears to be a couple of notches above both of them in the talent department.
Even when Sinner first arrived on the tour, long before he developed his skills, he appeared to have more talent than Tiafoe/Denis.
Plenty of us were predicting bigger things for rookie Sinner than for Tiafoe/Denis.

 

[Vincent-C]

I think Shapovalov could still have a Dimitrov-plus career yet, if he sets his heart and mind to it (and rehires Youzhny for a third go, maybe).
He's got plenty of talent but needs some discipline.

 

[Rovesciarete]

I agree, especially Tiafoe, he seems like a hard-working person, even if his personality is a bit pathetic, he seems like he works hard.
So considering Tiafoe's absolute lack of achievements (compared to Sinner), I think he's WAY less talented than Sinner.
I think people are confusing talent with entertaining techniques, because Denis and Tiafoe are known for having entertaining techniques.

Agreed, Tiafoe seems to be more the hard worker type even if he clowns around sometimes. People confuse sometimes innate talent with an outgoing personality.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Plenty of us were predicting bigger things for rookie Sinner than for Tiafoe/Denis.

You weren't here in 2017 when Denis beat Rafa, unless it was under a 45th prior user name. Nobody was ever hyped as much on TTW as Shapo and for good reason. Nobody with any tennis knowledge ever hyped Tiafoe... Ever.

Shapo has more talent in his left thumbnail than Tiafoe has in his entire body.

 

[robyrolfo]

An interesting first-round match for Denis Shapovalov at this year's Australian Open where he will face the 18-year-old Czech qualifier Jakub Mensik, who has risen several hundred places up the rankings in the past year. This will be a first meeting between the two players.

That Mensik guy beat some solid players in qualifying, so I don't think it will be easy for Shapo, if he even manages to win at all.

... Nobody with any tennis knowledge ever hyped Tiafoe... Ever.
Shapo has more talent in his left thumbnail than Tiafoe has in his entire body.

What? You sort of slight other people here for exaggerating, and then you come out with this? You think there is a huge talent gap between Shapo and Tiafoe? Seriously? Tiafoe isn't a slouch. You do realize that, right? And have you seen some of the "trick" shots, or whatever you want to call them, that Tiafoe pulls off when he is looking to entertain? You can't do those types of things without serious talent.

 

[Rosstour]

That Mensik guy beat some solid players in qualifying, so I don't think it will be easy for Shapo, if he even manages to win at all.

What? You sort of slight other people here for exaggerating, and then you come out with this? You think there is a huge talent gap between Shapo and Tiafoe? Seriously? Tiafoe isn't a slouch. You do realize that, right? And have you seen some of the "trick" shots, or whatever you want to call them, that Tiafoe pulls off when he is looking to entertain? You can't do those types of things without serious talent.

Yes. Tiafoe has trick-shot artist in his blood. His slices are great and he does that fake-out thing where he looks like he's gonna hit a slice and turns the racquet face at the last second to slap it flat

 

[Move]

I think Shapovalov could still have a Dimitrov-plus career yet, if he sets his heart and mind to it (and rehires Youzhny for a third go, maybe).
He's got plenty of talent but needs some discipline.

10 Mio at the bank, beautiful GF, a beach house somewhere the Canadian Taxes cannot come. Dennis counts his blessings and goes through the motions of the ATP tour is my guess

 

[NedStark]

You weren't here in 2017 when Denis beat Rafa, unless it was under a 45th prior user name. Nobody was ever hyped as much on TTW as Shapo and for good reason. Nobody with any tennis knowledge ever hyped Tiafoe... Ever.

Shapo has more talent in his left thumbnail than Tiafoe has in his entire body.

Yes, absolutely nobody considered Tiafoe a future Slam winner. OTOH, there was a time when Shapovalov was rated higher than Tsitsipas and Medvedev.

 

[Vincent-C]

You weren't here in 2017 when Denis beat Rafa, unless it was under a 45th prior user name. Nobody was ever hyped as much on TTW as Shapo and for good reason. Nobody with any tennis knowledge ever hyped Tiafoe... Ever.

Shapo has more talent in his left thumbnail than Tiafoe has in his entire body.

Not just that he beat Raffers at seventeen; it was that he did it with panache. Oodles of talent there.

 

[Vincent-C]

10 Mio at the bank, beautiful GF, a beach house somewhere the Canadian Taxes cannot come. Dennis counts his blessings and goes through the motions of the ATP tour is my guess

I hear ya, but one can hope..

 

[Rovesciarete]

Not just that he beat Raffers at seventeen; it was that he did it with panache. Oodles of talent there.

Pretty fascinating how much value some people put on a single match. Big hit and big miss. Still he seems to step it up against better players while suffering weaker ones. In this he seems to be the opposite of Sinner.

 

[Vincent-C]

Didn't Shapo beat Nadal more than once- including on the dirt at Rome '22?

 

[Rovesciarete]

Indeed, in 2022...

9‑May‑2022

Rome Masters

Clay

QF

16​

10​

(5)Casper Ruud [NOR] d. (13)Shapovalov

7-6(7) 7-5

(ch)

0.73​

2.9%​

6.7%​

63.5%​

69.7%​

55.3%​

14/15​

2:19​

9‑May‑2022

Rome Masters

Clay

R16

16​

4​

(13)Shapovalov d. (3)Rafael Nadal [ESP]

1-6 7-5 6-2

1.03​

14.0%​

3.2%​

67.7%​

63.5%​

43.3%​

7/11​

2:37​

9‑May‑2022

Rome Masters

Clay

R32

16​

25​

(13)Shapovalov d. Nikoloz Basilashvili [GEO]

6-4 7-6(5)

1.28​

10.4%​

6.0%​

70.1%​

85.1%​

50.0%​

1/1​

1:40​

9‑May‑2022

Rome Masters

Clay

R64

16​

28​

(13)Shapovalov d. Lorenzo Sonego [ITA]

7-6(5) 3-6 6-3

1.10​

2.9%​

6.8%​

53.4%​

78.2%​

52.1%​

3/5​

3:1​

 

[bluetrain4]

Tiafo is what?

Right, and I'm a big Tiafoe fan. People seem to really think "tennis" talent is just shot making? And Tiafoe even isn't some incredible shotmaker, even if he has his moments. Everyone has their moments. I guess he incorporates that back spin drop shot, which can look fantastic, but I'm not seeing that he's more talented overall than Sinner.

This is a super boring take, but to be talented "at tennis" IMO means being able to succeed at a high level at tennis, to win at tennis- no matter how you do it. Thus, a player can be much more boring and have much less variety than another player and still be more talented "at tennis." They might not be as talented of "shotmakers," they may not be as talented at "integrating variety" but if they win consistently more, they're more talented generally "at tennis." I know people hate that take because we love flashy players with incredible shot making. We love the idea of tortured and talented tennis geniuses who we excuse for not acheiving at as high of a level as wee think they should becuase they're more fun and exciting. To be sure, plenty of those players are actually talented at tennis overall - but not simply because of the shotmaking or variety, but becuase they use those skills/tools to achieve/win at tennis. If they can't use those skills/tools to win, they may be more talented as to those skills/tools, but not to tennis overall.

 

[Rafa4GOAT]

Shapo is so washed unfortunately

 

[Marius_Hancu]

2024 AO 1st R Shapovalov - Mensik
Mensik is only 18 yo, but 6 feet 3 and the 4th Czech player already

Mensik is uncomfortably solid (89% on 1st serves in) for Shapo, who makes just a bit more errors. Nothing original, just solid, is Mensik. Not a Berdych.

Shapo has not been able to break him, because right now after 2 sets, Mensik has better % on both serves and returning. And I stand corrected: he might not be Berdych, but he has fast and accurate hands with balls on the rise.

Stats for the whole match, to 4-4 in the 3rd:

Shapo/Mensik

76%
Win 1st serve
83%

42%
Win 2nd serve
65%

43
Unforced errors
19

5
Return unforced errors
1

One cannot win with these stats.

Let's see if Shapo can change smth, perhaps moving him more, but WITH CONSISTENCY.

Too late.

 

[NedStark]

Should go to Challengers to rack up match time and try new approach, right now he neêds both.

 

[Move]

Saw a few highlights and while Mensik has a standard game, he's executing it very well. Another 18 yo with potential. NG finals candidate !

 

[NedStark]

Saw a few highlights and while Mensik has a standard game, he's executing it very well. Another 18 yo with potential. NG finals candidate !

Look good, but Hurkacz will bot him off the court.

 

[ey039524]

Wow, 43 UEs. The only way to win a match w that many is to have an equal amount of winners.

 

[Pmasterfunk]

This is a super boring take, but to be talented "at tennis" IMO means being able to succeed at a high level at tennis, to win at tennis- no matter how you do it.

I agree. I think it comes down to the "idea" of talent, which in the tennis fandom most people seem to associate solely with racquet skills. I see talent as a bigger package, i.e. having a strong work ethic is a talent - I sure are shi*t don't have that. Not becoming a mess at clutch time, good shot selection, natural fitness/endurance, capacity to surround yourself with a good team, take coaching advice well - I boringly see it all this stuff as talent.

Did I overrrate Shapo's talent? It seems like it, yeah. At the end of 2019, and even in 2021, he was getting close to the top and seemed like he was moving in the right direction. He's still pretty young, and might have a strong late career, but right now he's got to figure some stuff out for himself.

 

[Rovesciarete]

I still remember young Janni calling himself in the press conference as “not the smartest”. Still he has invested smartly and a lot into his team and has grown.

Shapo can do much better than this beatdown but I fear he will always held back by his hit-or-miss approach and poor returning.

 

[snr]

I agree. I think it comes down to the "idea" of talent, which in the tennis fandom most people seem to associate solely with racquet skills. I see talent as a bigger package, i.e. having a strong work ethic is a talent - I sure are shi*t don't have that. Not becoming a mess at clutch time, good shot selection, natural fitness/endurance, capacity to surround yourself with a good team, take coaching advice well - I boringly see it all this stuff as talent.

Did I overrrate Shapo's talent? It seems like it, yeah. At the end of 2019, and even in 2021, he was getting close to the top and seemed like he was moving in the right direction. He's still pretty young, and might have a strong late career, but right now he's got to figure some stuff out for himself.

I think it can also come in pieces.

I always think of someone talented as Nalbandian; but he didn't have the fitness work ethic in that sense.

Everyone knew he had the talent and he was also able to execute and demonstrarte it on more than one occasion. He was missing the "work ethic" piece meant he limited his success but I definitely think his results showed that other areas of talent made up for it (albiet in a limited form)

 

[Nate7-5]

Safe to say dude is flying through some dark clouds right now.

 

[Joseph_K]

Earlier on Tuesday, in first-round action in Montpellier, world no. 137 Denis Shapovalov defeated world no. 88 Hugo Gaston in straight sets, 6-1, 6-3. This is the Canadian's first win of any kind since he beat Liam Broady in four sets to reach the fourth round at Wimbledon last July. In his next match Shapovalov will take on the no. 2 seed, Alexander Bublik. The Kazakh currently leads their head-to-head 2-0.

 

[bogdan101]

Earlier on Tuesday, in first-round action in Montpellier, world no. 137 Denis Shapovalov defeated world no. 88 Hugo Gaston in straight sets, 6-1, 6-3. This is the Canadian's first win of any kind since he beat Liam Broady in four sets to reach the fourth round at Wimbledon last July. In his next match Shapovalov will take on the no. 2 seed, Alexander Bublik. The Kazakh currently leads their head-to-head 2-0.

Update: 3-0.

 

[Vincent-C]

Update: 3-0.

Shap's just getting his sea legs, here. YE #1

 

[Marius_Hancu]

2024 AO 1st R Shapovalov - Mensik
Mensik is only 18 yo, but 6 feet 3 and the 4th Czech player already

Mensik is uncomfortably solid (89% on 1st serves in) for Shapo, who makes just a bit more errors. Nothing original, just solid, is Mensik. Not a Berdych.

Shapo has not been able to break him, because right now after 2 sets, Mensik has better % on both serves and returning. And I stand corrected: he might not be Berdych, but he has fast and accurate hands with balls on the rise

He may not be Berdych, but the guy is going straight for the very top.

 

[mental midget]

He may not be Berdych, but the guy is going straight for the very top.

tough match for shapo. mensik can play some novak-style gumby defense in addition to good offense.

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

Loss to metal hip murray

 

[BeatlesFan]

Loss to metal hip murray

This is a painful loss, 3-6 in the third. I watched the highlights and Denis abandoned the new block return and is back to flailing away on his BH. He's a mess.

 

[Vincent-C]

This is a painful loss, 3-6 in the third. I watched the highlights and Denis abandoned the new block return and is back to flailing away on his BH. He's a mess.

Bummer- but thanks for the report. C'mon, Shap!

 

[Shaolin]

Yikes. Lost to Old Man Murray.

Wonder who his next 1st round loss will be to.