The Slow Surface Conspiracy Theory (SSCT) is an excuse and a form of escapism

Sport

G.O.A.T.
This thread was created in January 2018 and has aged very well.

Year after year, Fed fans come back with the "slow surface" conspiracy theory.

Every year the Australian Open or Wimbledon are supposedly slower than ever, unlike Federer wins, in which case the speed debate dissapears.

Examples:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...they-slow-down-the-grass-at-wimbledon.247813/
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/ao-2018-court-speed-looks-slow.608109/
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...edon-2019-is-super-slow.647034/#post-13491375
 
Last edited:

Pantera

Banned
This thread was created in January 2018 and has aged very well.

Year after year, Fed fans come back with the "slow surface" conspiracy theory.

Every year the Australian Open or Wimbledon are supposedly slower than ever, unlike Federer wins, in which case the speed debate dissapears.

Examples:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...they-slow-down-the-grass-at-wimbledon.247813/
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/ao-2018-court-speed-looks-slow.608109/
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...edon-2019-is-super-slow.647034/#post-13491375
Apparently all surfaces are super slow since 2008, which just happens to coincide with Federer being a perennial no.3. Funny that no?
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
"The All England Club has changed its grass from a blend of 70 percent ryegrass seed and 30 percent creeping red fescue to 100 percent ryegrass. This has made the soil drier and harder, which causes the ball to bounce higher; players have more time to get to the ball, and it is subsequently more difficult to hit outright winners."

And that was in 2007. And it's not a "conspiracy," and why are you starting threads on a subject (fast/slow grass) you know absolutely nothing about? And with zero frame of reference to past grass playing conditions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/25/magazine/roger-federer-can-still-get-his-game-face-on.html
 

Zeref

Professional

Doubles match but you can see the difference. This is fast grass or rather what grass should play like. I don't like how every surface have little variation in speed and bounce.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Even as a Fed fan, I do find it annoying when others complain about the surface speed... ALL the time. I have no idea why they do it during the clay season when it's supposed to be slow anyway, but they're likely just trolling. I hope.

It is NOT a conspiracy, however. There are facts out there that prove that Wimbledon's grass has slowed down. This year it seems to be particularly slow, which is a shame.

I'm not implying that they should revert completely to pre-2001 grass. If they did that, then servebots like Isner with their modern racket technology would be in control of the grass. The heavier wooden rackets from the 80s actually made the game much more watchable and when many players made the racket switch in the 90s, we started to see Sampras-Ivanisevic finals all over the place. The slowing of the courts was a "necessary evil", as I'd put it.

But Wimbledon over-corrected. When hard courts like the ones at Dubai, Shanghai, Cincinnati, and the Australian Open are faster than Wimbledon, then that's a big problem. I might be biased, but if any tournament deserves to have faster courts, it's Wimbledon without a single doubt in my mind.

I think that the CPI (Court Pace Index) of Wimbledon is around 37-38, which is classified as "Medium". I'd recommend booting it up to around 42-43, in the "Medium-Fast" range. Nothing too dramatic. Just a tweak to set it apart from the other Grand Slam tournaments.
 

xFedal

Legend
Wimbledon is still the fastest playing Slam along with Australian Open.... Today due to heat the ball is bouncing higher...
 

Raining hopes

Hall of Fame
Personally from whatever little I know of tennis and from what I have watched speed of courts have been somewhat like this :

AO : Rebound ace was slow, reports do assert this. However reading some comments from Agassi and his peers makes it seem it was relatively slower only in late 90s early 2000s, meaning it would be classified as a decently fast today.

How was the speed in mid 2000s is something I don't know for sure, but if I have to guess it was slightly faster than Plexicushion.

Plexi did bring in slowness. But AO has always been the slow HC slam.
I think AO speed up wasn't sudden in 2017, I remember some comments regarding it being faster than before in 2016 itself.

AO is decently fast now.


RG- Clay is clay , no ? Except for relatively low bouncing Hamburg/Madrid.


WB - This is a can of worms.

Personally some months ago I did research on comments

Go back just in this forum 2007 F had everyone , Non Fed fans included , noticing how much higher the balls were bouncing.

So the second week bounce is more of a change.
But personally I see highlights WB 2003-05 and can't seem to classify 2006 onwards as same speed.

Many articles and videos claim the dying of serve and volley is due to Poly strings. Maybe. But the fact that defensive Tennis is more prevalent today on the surface feels like a huge joke.

Read any book on Tennis and the clear distinction of Grass being the ultimate problem for baseliners is a well covered topic.


USO : This is mostly Eye based but honestly they did slow down like crazy. Personally think it was around 2008-10 where I saw a noticeable drop in speed.

I think this slam is the one where anyone can see the difference between a mid 2000s court and the mid 2010 courts easily.

It really has become a joke. It was supposed to be the faster HC slam.
 

augustobt

Legend
Personally from whatever little I know of tennis and from what I have watched speed of courts have been somewhat like this :

AO : Rebound ace was slow, reports do assert this. However reading some comments from Agassi and his peers makes it seem it was relatively slower only in late 90s early 2000s, meaning it would be classified as a decently fast today.

How was the speed in mid 2000s is something I don't know for sure, but if I have to guess it was slightly faster than Plexicushion.

Rebound Ace was considered slow back then but it's definitely way faster than what we have on tour today. The main problem is that its surface was too sticky and the ball bounced a bit higher.

Plexi did bring in slowness. But AO has always been the slow HC slam.
I think AO speed up wasn't sudden in 2017, I remember some comments regarding it being faster than before in 2016 itself.

AO is decently fast now.

In 2012 the Rod Laver Arena court was slower than some clay events. You can check the CPI if you or anyone else has any doubt in my words (although unlike some on these boards I don't usually post bullcrap that can't be verified). They tried to speed up just a little in 2013, but it wasn't that effective, as well as in 2016. 2017 we had that beautiful 40+ CPI, medium-fast (but that was on RLA). Speed decreased a bit in 2018, it was still medium/medium-fast at least.


RG- Clay is clay , no ? Except for relatively low bouncing Hamburg/Madrid.
I think the thing with Madrid is the altitude. It makes the ball a little faster, overall bouncing I think it's ok.


WB - This is a can of worms.

Personally some months ago I did research on comments

Go back just in this forum 2007 F had everyone , Non Fed fans included , noticing how much higher the balls were bouncing.

So the second week bounce is more of a change.
But personally I see highlights WB 2003-05 and can't seem to classify 2006 onwards as same speed.

Many articles and videos claim the dying of serve and volley is due to Poly strings. Maybe. But the fact that defensive Tennis is more prevalent today on the surface feels like a huge joke.

Read any book on Tennis and the clear distinction of Grass being the ultimate problem for baseliners is a well covered topic.
This is what I always say here. Only people debating over that are the ones who
A - Hasn't even bothered watching any matches back then
B - Fanboy trolls with agendas to follow.


USO : This is mostly Eye based but honestly they did slow down like crazy. Personally think it was around 2008-10 where I saw a noticeable drop in speed.

I think this slam is the one where anyone can see the difference between a mid 2000s court and the mid 2010 courts easily.

It really has become a joke. It was supposed to be the faster HC slam.
Same thing...
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
It's been well documented that hard courts and grass have slowed down considerably over the years.



The BBC have proven that Wimbledon 2003 was much different than 2008.

6a00d83420958953ef016761d18cd0970b-pi
 

skip1969

G.O.A.T.
Anyone who has been watching tennis before the year 2000 knows about the surfaces. So, it's not a conspiracy. It's just that this board is full of kids who never saw, either in person or on TV, tennis before Fed/Nadal/Djokovic.
 
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