The strategy I would tell Federer to employ vs. Nadal

[Povl Carstensen]

I repeat left handedness is not the problem. If that were true Federer would struggle against all left handers and he doesn't.

Nadal is one of the better lefthanders.

 

[wangs78]

Roger is too old to go toe to toe with Rafa, simple as that. For someone like Rafa, who gets to every ball, can hit heavy winners and great passing shots like nobody's business, the only way to stand a chance is to win a war of attrition or to severely overpower him. This is why Novak has been the only player who has ever been able to consistently beat Nadal. He can go toe to toe with Rafa - it's like to pong players just having a never ending exchange of ground strokes. This is why the only other players who can consistently make Rafa look lost are Soderling or Del Potro, and only they can do it for usually just a set or so before they lose control of their power and Rafa takes over again. Roger in his prime could go toe to toe the way Novak can today, but since he hit, say 28 when Rafa was 22, there was just no way he was going to outrun/outposition Rafa. Then there's that bad lefty FH, 1HBH matchup. The level of fitness of players today - with the bar set by Rafa, Novak and Murray is such that you're going to have a war attrition each and every time these guys play. Forget the finesse, the brilliant shots, the tactics. The only thing once could do is increase the size of the court so that it becomes a game of shotmaking again and not physicality. Because that's what it is now at the highest level, a game of who is the most physical and can take the most physical punishment over a best of 5 set format.

 

[Thriller]

Nadal is one of the better lefthanders.

Nadal is one of, if not, the best leftie there has ever been but what does the leftie part have to do with why Federer cannot beat him?

Federer has trouble with Murray and Djokovic too, is that because they are righties? Of course not, it is because they are damned good.

Federer in his career has won 82% of his matches against right handed players.

If a certain person called Rafa Nadal never existed, Federer would have an 89% winning record against left handers and that 89% would make him the most successful player against left handers by far. That is such a huge discrepancy it actually suggests that Federer's game is tailor made for lefties.

Those are not the stats of someone who has problems with lefties.

The problem is Nadal's all around technical superiority and mental strength that makes him more consistent and less error prone in long pressurised matches than his Swiss ex-rival.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

Nadal is one of, if not, the best leftie there has ever been but what does the leftie part have to do with why Federer cannot beat him?

You said Federer should struggle against all lefthanders if Nadal being lefthanded was part of the matchup problem. I think that is an illogical and untrue statement.

 

[Thriller]

You said Federer should struggle against all lefthanders if Nadal being lefthanded was part of the matchup problem. I think that is an illogical and untrue statement.

Why illogical?

.... and what has 'truth' got to do with anything? We both have opinions but we will never know the truth of what would happen because Nadal isn't right handed.

 

[torpantennis]

Why illogical?

.... and what has 'truth' got to do with anything? We both have opinions but we will never know the truth of what would happen because Nadal isn't right handed.

I wouldn't be so sure...

 

[JustBob]

It's a combination of being a lefty and unique style of play. If Nadal was a righty with the exact same style of play, he woudn't nearly be as effective.

 

[Mick]

federer is not getting any younger.
I think his time to beat Nadal has passed.
but Dmitrov probably can do it because he's still young and by the time he reaches his prime, Nadal will be too old (for tennis).

 

[spinovic]

There is really no other tactic fed can do that he hasn't already tried to employ.

1. His serve breaks down to easily. Its good but not good enough

2. He tried to attack. His Net Game is good but not good enough

3. Hes tried to rally from the baseline. His baseline game is good but not good enough

Hes just not good enough at the thing hes needed to be good in to beat Nadal

Then you got all these racket/coaching changes. too late for that. He should have done those things 5-6 years ago when he noticed his game was slipping. Not NOW when hes in his early 30s

But what about all the things the commentators said before the match? What about the longer racket, the healed back for the first time in ages, and the Fedberg combo? Was that just hot air to delude the gullible into watching?

Yes, yes it was.

I think Federer's net game is fine for this era of tennis. I just think Nadal is too good from the baseline with his movement, groundstrokes/passing shots. The guy is amazing, not only with his ability to run balls down but to get some heat on them when he does. I'm a Federer fan, but not a Nadal hater. The haters want to call him a moonballer but there isn't another player on the tour that can crush winners from the Melbourne sign like he does. I've never seen a guy who can dictate play from 5 feet behind the baseline.

Obviously, at this point in their careers, Federer's movement isn't nearly good enough to challenge Nadal with extended rallies from the baseline.

Really, the only strategy I would employ against him is just to pound the backhand over and over and over and over. Djokovic does this at times and Dimitrov tries to do it and they probably play Rafa the toughest on a consistent basis.

 

[Indio]

There is really no other tactic fed can do that he hasn't already tried to employ.

1. His serve breaks down to easily. Its good but not good enough

2. He tried to attack. His Net Game is good but not good enough

3. Hes tried to rally from the baseline. His baseline game is good but not good enough

Hes just not good enough at the thing hes needed to be good in to beat Nadal

Then you got all these racket/coaching changes. too late for that. He should have done those things 5-6 years ago when he noticed his game was slipping. Not NOW when hes in his early 30s

But what about all the things the commentators said before the match? What about the longer racket, the healed back for the first time in ages, and the Fedberg combo? Was that just hot air to delude the gullible into watching?

Yes, yes it was.

Of all your posts that I've read, this was the best. And I just love that bit about the commentators. Excellently done (seriously).

I don't think all is lost for Federer yet, however. Yes, when I turned on the TV midway through the second set, the stench of defeatism was overpowering, but regardless of the outcome of the SF, there were some positives to take into the future. He did manage to knock off two Top 10 players, while losing only one set in the process. Compare that with his results in 2013 when his record versus Top 10s was a pitiful 4-10 (2012: 16-9).

 

[Tenez101]

Return serve more aggressively. Take the ball early on both sides. Be like Djokovic in other words.

YES. His return sucked hard in this match.

 

[Thriller]

It's a combination of being a lefty and unique style of play. If Nadal was a righty with the exact same style of play, he woudn't nearly be as effective.

Why do you say that?

Do you think Nadal wouldn't be able to produce as much topspin or hit his forehand as hard if he was a righty? If so why?

Do you think he wouldn't be able to move as quickly, anticipate his opponents shots as well as he does now, hit inside out topspins forehands as hard as he can to target Federer's backhand?

I cannot see it making any difference at all. If Murray and Djokovic as two handed righties can give Federer's game so much trouble, ... well I cannot imagine Rafa doing any worse than those two against Fed.

In fact, his serve would probably be more effective as he would be using his natural throwing arm.

 

[JustBob]

Seriously, do you even understand tennis? The majority of baseline exchanges are cross court exchanges. Righty vs righty will therefore be forehand to forehand and backhand to backhand. Nadal's advantage as a lefty is he can use high topspin shots with his FOREHAND to attack the opponent's backhand. And there's no way he could run around every backhand to hit inside out forehands. It's not only impossible due to the pace of shots but also unwise because it opens the entire court to the opponent. So if he were a righty, he could only do that occasionally on weaker/slower shots.

In fact, his serve would probably be more effective as he would be using his natural throwing arm.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I ever heard.

 

[Mick]

Federer needs a hypnotist to tell him he's playing Nadal indoor at the WTF. If he believes this, he probably would have a good chance in beating Nadal.

 

[nithya]

I never want to see another Federer/Nadal match again, but if I were Federer's coach and he must play the match, here's what I would tell him to do:

First, see what the conditions are like. If the ball is bouncing low, you can attempt your regular game and hope it's like the 10 times you've beaten him. At least there's a chance.

If the conditions favor him (which has consistently been the case at the AO, Miami, and on non-Madrid clay), it's Desperation Time from the beginning:

1. Go for broke on every single serve return. Every. Single. One. Never engage Nadal in a rally. If Nadal's going to beat you, and he probably will, he's going to beat you WEIRD. Make him go, "you're playing strange today Roga, no?" Run around backhand returns and go for broke, come over backhand returns as hard as you can, and if he makes you hit a second shot, hit out and come in (you probably missed the shot, but in case you made it, you'll be prepared to actually win the point). Never, ever have a rally on Nadal's serve that lasts more than 3 strokes.

2. On your own serve, if he gets it back, you've got to hit out on the second shot. If it's a wide serve, don't EVER come in - you'll get passed 99% of the time. Wait for the return, hit it down the line and hope you make it. If he lands a moonball return at your feet at the baseline, swing wildly and hope for a prayer.

Never, ever engage Nadal in a rally. Don't give the moonball bully what he wants. If for some reason you find yourself in a rally with Nadal, "accidentally" shank as soon as possible.

If you're gonna lose, at least conserve energy for the future. Your back is priority #1, and if Moonball Bully is on the other side of the net, don't waste your back's health on trying to find a way to beat him at his own game.

Enjoyed your post. Genuinely humorous.

 

[ilovetennis212]

I never want to see another Federer/Nadal match again, but if I were Federer's coach and he must play the match, here's what I would tell him to do:



First, see what the conditions are like. If the ball is bouncing low, you can attempt your regular game and hope it's like the 10 times you've beaten him. At least there's a chance.



If the conditions favor him (which has consistently been the case at the AO, Miami, and on non-Madrid clay), it's Desperation Time from the beginning:



1. Go for broke on every single serve return. Every. Single. One. Never engage Nadal in a rally. If Nadal's going to beat you, and he probably will, he's going to beat you WEIRD. Make him go, "you're playing strange today Roga, no?" Run around backhand returns and go for broke, come over backhand returns as hard as you can, and if he makes you hit a second shot, hit out and come in (you probably missed the shot, but in case you made it, you'll be prepared to actually win the point). Never, ever have a rally on Nadal's serve that lasts more than 3 strokes.



2. On your own serve, if he gets it back, you've got to hit out on the second shot. If it's a wide serve, don't EVER come in - you'll get passed 99% of the time. Wait for the return, hit it down the line and hope you make it. If he lands a moonball return at your feet at the baseline, swing wildly and hope for a prayer.



Never, ever engage Nadal in a rally. Don't give the moonball bully what he wants. If for some reason you find yourself in a rally with Nadal, "accidentally" shank as soon as possible.



If you're gonna lose, at least conserve energy for the future. Your back is priority #1, and if Moonball Bully is on the other side of the net, don't waste your back's health on trying to find a way to beat him at his own game.

Good post.
This is exactly rosol did in wimby.
You can add drop shot like tsonga at Aussie open 2008.
But first thing is bashing the ball.
Go for every single point.
Must know you can't wait nadal to make mistakes or can't neutralize the rallies against nadal.
Solution is gambling plan.
"Play like nothing to lose" is not a good plan. It's a bad plan against nadal.
You must think like "I can lose my family's life if I don't attack every single ball."
1. Hit hard as much you can. No matter which court you send the ball.
2. Go for break on every single point.
3. You kinda need to irritate nadal with crowd if you can.(soderling, tsonga did) Nadal is born simply fitter, faster, stronger than anybody.
He even hits higher percentage shot (the most fast top spin generated shot land into the court) than anybody. So you can't play with him in fair game.
Few things... stop serving motion in awkward situation, complain to umpire for Nadal's taking time in every change over.

Don't let nadal grind you out. You must beat yourself rather than he beats you.
I used to tell people this in my club. (Ex. Alway hit lob cross high rather than passing when opponent come out on net.) but nadal doesn't come out. So this is not for him
Pray for luck..

 

[Bobby Jr]

I would tell Fed to hit him psycologically. Come out in a ball colored outfit from head to toe....

Lol.

He should also do what Nadal did in this match.. instead of having his hand looked at during the end of sets Nadal waited until it was Fed's turn to serve and took an injury time out. You do those things before your own serve or during the end of sets but Nadal always seems to do it before his opponent's serve.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

Why illogical?

.... and what has 'truth' got to do with anything? We both have opinions but we will never know the truth of what would happen because Nadal isn't right handed.

Because of course Federer does not have to struggle against all lefthanders for your point to be wrong. And you need to look at how many say top ten lefthanders Federer has played to find out if your point about his winning percentage against lefties has any merit. Plus why should Nadal not count in that stat, he is a leftie.