Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Hahaha.....you just find stats which favour Novak Djokovic.
The Strong Era
- Thread starter Spencer Gore
- Start date
Hahaha.....you just find stats which favour Novak Djokovic.
Eren
Professional
Well, it seems OP didn't go all the way to show Djokovic is number one like some poster does. This time, at least someone is showing stats to illustrate that someone else than Djokovic is number one. Even if he is a Nadal fan, it's still a rare sight to behold since most Nadal fans on this forum are hoppin the Djo bandwagon.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
It's the most effective tennis style. Top baseline game beats top volley game.
Volleys are obsolete. You can't volley well when the other player is fast and hits hard and precise. Borg paved the way with small wooden racquets.
zagor
Bionic Poster
When surfaces are the same/slowed down, yes. Therein lies the problem.
Borg serve and volleyed a ton at Wimbledon actually. He had to you know, adapt.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
The game got faster. But it's not easy to volley a fast shot.
Ace percentage:
'90s - 6.2%
'00s - 7.3%
'10s - 7.9%
Borg's strength was in his baseline game, not the volleys. His baseline game was rudimental but he was ahead of his time, although not comparable to a modern player yet.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
i can only admire your abnegation
talking to Lew is like talking to a huge brick wall covered by a giant and fascinating/scintillating matrix screensaver, featuring an ectoplasmic sea of random numbers
it is beautiful but we, modest bitless creatures of flesh and bones, can't grasp its true essence.
Welcome to the Lewtrix......
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
i can only admire your abnegation
talking to Lew is like talking to a huge brick wall covered by a giant and fascinating/scintillating matrix screensaver, featuring an ectoplasmic sea of random numbers
it is beautiful but we, modest bitless creatures of flesh and bones, can't grasp its true essence.
Welcome to the Lewtrix......
Why there is more difference now among surfaces in the number of aces?
Answer this, instead of mocking me.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
honestly, i don't know and i don't think the answer is 'simple'... but there are plenty of other factors that could be involved.
equipement? balls?...
training approaches putting a stronger emphasis on the serve during the development of young players?
(when the surfaces were more polarized, you had plenty of clay specialists that didn't possess a strong serve... but it mattered less as the tour was more 'compartmentalized')
also ... higher proportion of 'pure servebots'?
(in the 90's, you had good servers but no isner/karlovic-like players... and i don't think their existence is exclusively related to the current surfaces)
I think the biggest problem here between the 3 is that they kind of peaked in really different years. If we assume for a little analysis that peak of Fed was sth like 2003-2009 and Nadal sth like 2007-2013 (? - hard to say) outside RG of course and Djokovic 2011 and then 2013- it is easy to see that Fed and Nadal overlapped a bit and same for Nadal and Djokovic.
Djokovic until 2013 had only 5 slams which means he did not win much when Nadal and Fed dominated and also lost to Murray twice in GS finals.... Won 10 of Slams since 2015 so when Federer was 34 and older and Nadal 29 or older... And additionally lost 2 finals to Wawrinka.
Djokovic until 2013 had only 5 slams which means he did not win much when Nadal and Fed dominated and also lost to Murray twice in GS finals.... Won 10 of Slams since 2015 so when Federer was 34 and older and Nadal 29 or older... And additionally lost 2 finals to Wawrinka.
zvelf
Hall of Fame
It's impossible for surfaces to be the "same" when we have the greatest clay courter of all time playing and dominating the surface for 15 years. If surfaces were the same, Nadal's overwhelming clay dominance couldn't exist.
D
Deleted member 765728
Guest
The answer is simple: poly strings allow you to generate more power (pace, speed) and impart more topspin on the ball, thus it's easier to ace someone.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
You didn't answer my question.
I don't remember that he adopted at all. He played his game and he played differently from any other at the time. His technique was more similar to table tennis technique than to technique of other tennis players. He is the grandfather of Djokovic/Nadal, while Lendl is the father. At the time, nobody was able to finish the point from the baseline as modern players do.
D
Deleted member 765728
Guest
You must be joking.
Players then and players now are 2 different things. I remember tall players (at that time someone of Djokovic height was considered to be really tall) were unable to walk. Their movement, and movement today is like cheese and chalk.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
I asked why the ace rate is more diverse among surfaces, not why the ace rate is higher.
That’s why 2015 Fed with no baseline game destroyed the field (mostly) with an all court game playing a lot of S&V.
In fairness, he came unstuck vs a peak ATG like Djokovic in 2 slam finals.
D
Deleted member 765728
Guest
I believe it's due to a fact that today players hit more aces on grass than they used to, while the number of aces on clay is roughly the same or similar. For example, Fed hit more access against Djokovic in 2014 than Ivanisevic against Rafter in 2001 (both five setters).
Do you have any data about this?
Spencer Gore
Legend
It's very important to point out here that I'm not trying to discover who is the greatest player of all-time.
Merely what constitutes the strong era in recent decades. Nor does it mean that the periods before and after this were necessarily weak. Simply not as strong as this era.
Merely what constitutes the strong era in recent decades. Nor does it mean that the periods before and after this were necessarily weak. Simply not as strong as this era.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Borg also had a great serve and was pretty amazing on carpet. He was not simply a great baseliner.
Ombelibable
Hall of Fame
The "era" starts at Roland Garros 2007, so Federer's Australian Open 2007 doesn't count. Therefore @Spencer Gore 's count is accurate.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
When you put Stan Wawrinka, Andy Murray, Delpo, Thiem in the same sentence as Becker, Edberg, Wilander , McEnroe, Lendl we have a serious problem
Rather it is better to stop discussion with the dimwits
Rather it is better to stop discussion with the dimwits
PeoplesChamp
Legend
Why does it start then? Who made that rule? Djokovic won the 1st tournament of the season. I can call it strong if I damn well please.
The same guy named 2013 Wimbledon the last strong era tourney with the best Wimbledon player knocked out by Stakhovsky loool
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
The self-proclaimed Borg fan doesn't know what he's talking about, lul. Borg was perhaps the all-courtest player ever, able to play radically different styles to succeed on varying surfaces. Tough luck to face prime Mac in two USO finals, tougher luck still with the thumb injury in '78 as Borg would've been favourite. If only he had more caring people in his life and the authorities weren't so stubborn to drive him to early retirement.
D
Deleted member 770618
Guest
I like this idea. But I'm not convinced that the slam count of the intersection when these guys were (roughly) in their 20s during FO-07 to W-12, is an indication of a strong era.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
You're correct of course about his supreme versatility. However I don't think it was "tough luck" to face Mac in two USO finals, since he faced that same Mac at Wimbledon, and defeated him. Fact is, Borg had a slight weakness when playing at the US Open - he was intimidated by the raucous atmosphere, which contrasted with the cathedral-like Roland Garros and Wimbledon. I also believe he was burnt out by 1981 anyway (had been at/near the top of the game with an unrivalled intensity since 1974, and it's not the authorities' fault if he couldn't keep that up).
He had an ATG career, for sure. But let's not go Gonzo (pun intended) when describing him.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
They don't belong to the same group of Big3 either, dear king of dimwits.
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