The tennis shot-clock: reality vs delusions

[Europa1]

The question is, why hasn't Fed made a big scene about this during a match? The Big 3 know they can do whatever they want, but the chair would have a easy decision to make if your options were: enforce objective rule, go against Fed.

I think this is the clear difference between Fed and Rafa. Rafa will do anything to win. Fed will fume silently, and try to shut him up by beating him. If the roles were reversed Rafa would complain in the first set every time they met.

Andre did complain when they played in Montreal. Federer was classy about it as usual and he didn't single Rafa out. He said that he was concerned that viewership would drop ("just serve the ball!") and he was right. Between the excessive "grunting" and time wasting from ATP and WTA players circa 2008-20016, a lot of people simply stopped watching tennis.

 

[Europa1]

Time wasting equals longer matches and therefore more commercials. Some bright spark computed long ago that Nadal went 44 minutes beyong the then 20 second rule. That's a lot of commercials. I don't mean to single out Rafa. Clilic, Novak, and a few others learned from Nadal and the officials did nothing.

 

[Rorano_Fedalovic]

Time wasting equals longer matches and therefore more commercials. Some bright spark computed long ago that Nadal went 44 minutes beyong the then 20 second rule. That's a lot of commercials.

it doesn't work like that (at least in europe). we only get commercials during the changeover breaks, and so no matter how many bounces or bum picks, the amount of commercials stays the same.

only way to become the commercials king is to deliberately prolong the match by throwing games/sets.

 

[Europa1]

it doesn't work like that (at least in europe). we only get commercials during the changeover breaks, and so no matter how many bounces or bum picks, the amount of commercials stays the same.

only way to become the commercials king is to deliberately prolong the match by throwing games/sets.

Right, but the total time of the match is longer in both scenarios. If the match is on the air longer, it generates more income through various ways.

 

[Rorano_Fedalovic]

Right, but the total time of the match is longer in both scenarios.

true true that's why I am hating on the time wasting.

 

[octobrina10]

Yes! There's no reason not to start the countdown immediately. Unless it was truly a crazy point, the crowd noise dies down in a few seconds

Like I timed in the Mannarino/Nadal TB, at 8-8 Nadal took 36 seconds to serve after the previous ball was called out. It doesn't matter if he was within the shot clock, because the rule is completely pointless if he was still within the limit somehow

Rafa was within the 25-second time limit between points, that's all that matters. Players keep an eye on the serve clock, they know that the umpire will give a time violation warning, when the serve clock hits zero before a player begins the service motion.

The chair umpire controls the time on the court. He/she operates the serve clock. The 25-second countdown begins when the chair umpire calls the score & triggers the serve clock. The measurements you make are meaningless and your accusations are baseless (= a blatant lie), because a player has to follow the rules set by his organisation, not by you.

 

[octobrina10]

LMAO is that your defense? He couldn't have cheated because he wasn't caught by the broadcast crew?

The broadcasters are trying to show the match, not Nadal's time violations. Showing a shot of the clock expiring and then abruptly cutting back to Nadal would be jarring to viewers.

Of course this task has also been made more difficult since they moved the serve clock from behind the players to the sides of the court, so it's impossible to see the countdown from most angles they usually show the match. I wonder why

My defence is that you are cheating readers saying "Nadal served 29 seconds after the score had been called" because there are a lot of witnesses who can see the serve clock and tell whether or not a player is within the 25-second time limit.

The serve clock has been moved from behind the players to the sides of the court, beause the clock is meant for players who have to keep an eye on the clock to stay within the 25-second time limit.

 

[octobrina10]

another idea:

why not make the ATP at least somewhat useful?

After some more thinking this through, I came to the conclusion that this is the type of rule that should ultimatively be down to players to decide upon.

so why not have the ATP tour players have a vote on it? if the majority is happy with the current handling of the situation, nothing has to be changed and people like Shapo need to suck it up. if the majority of players demand a a clear handling, it might be time to say goodbye to one more dumb tradition in tennis and let the beeper do it's job.

But your problem is that you have no clue what Shapo was complaining about.

 

[octobrina10]

in case you still didn't get it; I am not bashing Rafa, though I think his gamesmanship is nasty and unworthy of the champion he is.

my beef is mostly with the simpin' umpires who do not have the balls to enforce rules.

it's time for you to grow up. the world ain't black and white, it ain't pro rafa or anti- rafa, at least not with me.

I'm pro tennis and anti time wasting.

You are bashing Rafa without having a clue what Shapo was complaining about.

 

[mtommer]

I Shot the clock!

Bang! Bang!

but you did not shoot the deputy

 

[jm1980]

Rafa was within the 25-second time limit between points, that's all that matters. Players keep an eye on the serve clock, they know that the umpire will give a time violation warning, when the serve clock hits zero before a player begins the service motion.

The chair umpire controls the time on the court. He/she operates the serve clock. The 25-second countdown begins when the chair umpire calls the score & triggers the serve clock. The measurements you make are meaningless and your accusations are baseless (= a blatant lie), because a player has to follow the rules set by his organisation, not by you.

You missed the point entirely

I was saying it doesn't matter even if Nadal was somehow technically within the serve clock. The following points are undeniably true:

1. The rule clearly states the 25 second limit should start immediately after the previous point ends.
1a. The rule does not mention crowd noise, umpire calling score, nada. The countdown starts IMMEDIATELY
2. It took Nadal 36 seconds to serve.

This means Nadal broke the rule as it is written, and the umpire did not call the time violation as he should have

Players keep an eye on the serve clock, they know that the umpire will give a time violation warning, when the serve clock hits zero before a player begins the service motion.

This may apply to 99% of the tour. But Nadal knows he can just get umpires banned from his matches if they call time violations on him

 

[octobrina10]

You missed the point entirely

I was saying it doesn't matter even if Nadal was somehow technically within the serve clock.

The rule clearly states the 25 second limit should start immediately after the previous point ends, and it took him 36 seconds to serve

You missed the point that you made false asccusations against Rafa. A player has to stay within the 25-second time limit he sees on the serve clock. And Rafa did.

 

[jm1980]

A player has to stay within the 25-second time limit he sees on the serve clock.

That is not what the rules say. From the Grand Slam rulebook (page 49):

A maximum of twenty-five (25) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the point until the time the ball is struck for the first serve of the next point.

It very clearly says 25 seconds from the moment the ball goes out of play. Not the moment he sees the serve clock, not the moment the umpire starts the clock, or anything else

 

[octobrina10]

That is not what the rules say. From the Grand Slam rulebook (page 49):

A maximum of twenty-five (25) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the point until the time the ball is struck for the first serve of the next point.

It very clearly says 25 seconds from the moment the ball goes out of play. Not the moment he sees the serve clock, not the moment the umpire starts the clock, or anything else

It doesn't matter what you say. The only thing that matters during a match is what the chair umpire says. He/she says that players have to stay within the 25-second time limit they see on the serve clock.

 

[LETitBE]

It doesn't matter what you say. The only thing that matters during a match is what the chair umpire says. He/she says that players have to stay within the 25-second time limit they see on the serve clock.

nadal gets favouritism

 

[jm1980]

It doesn't matter what you say. The only thing that matters during a match is what the chair umpire says. He/she says that players have to stay within the 25-second time limit they see on the serve clock.

You are trying to mislead readers again. This is not what "I" am saying, but rather a direct quote from the ITF rulebook. You claimed Nadal needs to follow the rules "set by the organisation". I have just quoted the relevant rule from the organisation

 

[jm1980]

But some morons think the rule is at the discretion of the empire to start the clock..

It should be obvious at this point that umpires are not only failing to enforce the rule for some players, but are in fact complicit in helping them break the rule

Also note that the limit was previously 20 seconds, so the 25 seconds are already an increase favouring slow players such as Nadal

 

[intrepidish]

I see it's time for a bump of this thread for a reminder to some of our saltier residents

 

[intrepidish]

It doesn't matter what you say. The only thing that matters during a match is what the chair umpire says. He/she says that players have to stay within the 25-second time limit they see on the serve clock.

This is so obvious that one has to wonder if objections to the contrary are simply motivated by emotional distress.

 

[Mark-Touch]

Question about shot clock.
Your opponent is taking extra time going to the towel and putting up their hand indicating they are not ready.
What happens then to your allotted time?
Does the umpire just ignore the shot clock when that happens?

 

[jm1980]

Question about shot clock.
Your opponent is taking extra time going to the towel and putting up their hand indicating they are not ready.
What happens then to your allotted time?
Does the umpire just ignore the shot clock when that happens?

The correct answer for this is to penalize the returner with a code violation for delaying the game. The returner needs to play to the (reasonable) pace of the server.

 

[Milanez82]

The correct answer for this is to penalize the returner with a code violation for delaying the game. The returner needs to play to the (reasonable) pace of the server.

Which is what Rafa did when facing...

 

[octobrina10]

Question about shot clock.
Your opponent is taking extra time going to the towel and putting up their hand indicating they are not ready.
What happens then to your allotted time?
Does the umpire just ignore the shot clock when that happens? opponent can't take

The server has to serve during 25 sec allowed by the serve clock. The receiver has to play to the reasonable pace of the server, according to the official GS Rule book. Receiver going to the towel or putting up his hand indicating he isn't ready does not ´mean "taking extra time."("Extra time" would be beyond 25 sec.) If server can serve before the shot clock expires, everything is OK.

 

[octobrina10]

Which is what Rafa did when facing...

Rafa didn't do anything wrong. He followed the rules.

 

[jm1980]

The server has to serve during 25 sec allowed by the serve clock. The receiver has to play to the reasonable pace of the server, according to the official GS Rule book. Receiver going to the towel or putting up his hand indicating he isn't ready does not ´mean "taking extra time."("Extra time" would be beyond 25 sec.) If server can serve before the shot clock expires, everything is OK.

Only in Nadal land "reasonable pace" means 20+ seconds.

 

[octobrina10]

Only in Nadal land "reasonable pace" means 20+ seconds.

Within 25 seconds.

 

[jm1980]

Within 25 seconds.

The rule just means the server can't quick serve while the returner isn't ready.

It doesn't say returner can stall the server as much as he wants. In fact it says quite the opposite

 

[octobrina10]

The rule just means the server can't quick serve while the returner isn't ready.

It doesn't say returner can stall the server as much as he wants. In fact it says quite the opposite

Your first sentence is correct.
Your second & third sentences are meaningless.