Incognito
Legend
Yet never won the RG-Wim combo like Fedal did. Why do you think Borg is a titan among tennis greats? That right the RG-Wim combo.
The true test of versatility..
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Yet never won the RG-Wim combo like Fedal did. Why do you think Borg is a titan among tennis greats? That right the RG-Wim combo.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
So? He held all four of them, much better than 2 in a row. Simple math.
Djokovic the best.
Incognito
Legend
Never in the same year
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
It maybe has more history, but still, in the GOAT debate all slams are equal.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
In the "Tiger" debate, yes, they are all equal.
O
OhYes
Guest
So boring...
I wonder why it was so much harder to win on different surfaces in the past?
Most insightful comment in the entire conversation.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
If you don't like the topic , i have a solution... Just buzz off.
Slightly D1
Professional
Your comparison is not alike in any way. Sure you can angle it like that if you want, but it pretends that Federer didn’t win his first half without any ATG before Nadal and subsequently Djokovic. It pretends that Nadal didn’t win over half, while competing with another all time great; Federer. Federer won half of his with no challengers, Nadal won half with Federer and the other half in competition with both all time greats. I’m sorry that hurts your feelings.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Thanks for finding a stat I like so much.
duaneeo
Legend
Nadal burst onto the scene in 2005. He was a 2-time Roland Garros champion, Wimbledon finalist, and 2-time YE#2 by the end of 2006. You want to argue that Federer won 4 of his slams before Rafa? Fine.
To add, Nadal was a 5-time RG champion, 2-time Wimbledon champion, Australian Open champion, USO champion, and 2-time YE#1 by the end of 2010. He and Federer dominated tennis from 2005 - 2010...21 slams won and YE#1 and YE#2 all 6 years. If Federer is lucky that there was no Djokovic, so is Nadal (though it's clear who's been lucky since 2011, but hasn't been able to take full advantage of the situation).
Slightly D1
Professional
How many majors has Federer won since Djokovic fully arrived in combination with Nadal starting around 2010-2011? Or simpler, this decade.
With your logic and defense of Federer, you acknowledge that Nadal was limited in both halves of his career by a peak Federer and then both Federer and a peak Djokovic. Federer racked up majors with neither a peak Nadal or Djokovic.
flanker2000fr
Hall of Fame
Federer is easily the player I admire the most, but when it comes to versatility (or peak level across all playing conditions), I have to hand it to Djokovic.
It's pretty hard to argue against the winning streak he had across the 2015 and 2016 seasons: Wimbledon 15 / US Open 15 / Year-End Championship 15 / Australian Open 16 / French Open 16. Neither Fed nor Nadal ever came close to this.
If that's not versatility, I don't know what is.
It's pretty hard to argue against the winning streak he had across the 2015 and 2016 seasons: Wimbledon 15 / US Open 15 / Year-End Championship 15 / Australian Open 16 / French Open 16. Neither Fed nor Nadal ever came close to this.
If that's not versatility, I don't know what is.
duaneeo
Legend
What I'm acknowledging is that peak Federer faced peak Rafa, and peak Djokovic didn't face peak Federer or Nadal. By the time Nole reached hit peak, it had been 8 years since Roger started consistently winning slams, and 6 years since Rafa. It's telling that Federer last beat Nole at a slam 9 years after winning his first Wimbledon, and Nadal last beat Nole at a slam 9 years after winning his first Roland Garros.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic is a specialist of hardcourt, the most balanced surface.
Linelicker
Rookie
Federer won 7 finals before Nadal won his first at RG against Federer in 2006. I can't understand why some use this against Federer. Yes, he has struggled against Nadal in particular, but Rafa's extreme dominance on clay transferred to other surfaces and gave Rafa the ad in the rivalry.
Roddick, Safin, Hewitt and Agassi would fight for slams in 2015-2019, and I would be surprised if they didn't win one or two.
I have no doubt Nadal and Djokovic would have challenged Federer 2004-2007 if they were his peers. But perhaps he would have been even better if this was the case. We don't know. Nadal and Djokovic certainly had someone who set the bar for them. Had Federer come after them, I am sure he would have been crafted differently to exploit their games. I hold the three as very equal in terms of level. They represent three different styles of play, of which I like Rafa's the best. But those who can't enjoy Federer and Djokovic are really blind to tennis and what the game is about.
It's very easy to show some numbers that don't tell anything about the context.
killerboss
Professional
Djokovic fans, be careful when you start agreeing with such nonsense that Federer fans come out with so you can dismantle Nadal and his achievements. If so, you're agreeing that Djokovic is either inferior or has been matched by Federer in every single slam. 1 more Aussie Open? Lmao, don't mean nothing after 15 years of consistently getting to semis and finals.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Another "let´s make up facts and twist them around to the advantage of our own fan agenda" thread.
Lame. Desperate. 40-15ish.
Lame. Desperate. 40-15ish.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It is reaching beyond belief to claim Djokovic never faced peak Nadal when Nadal won 13 Slams to his 15 Slams this decade. You act like Nadal and Djokovic are 5 years apart. They're less than a year apart in age. Nadal has been far more dominant after 2010 than before that winning 13 Slams, 20 Masters and 150 weeks at #1, compared to 6 Slams, 14 Masters and 46 weeks at #1.
Nadal_King
Hall of Fame
Outside of favourite major then we can say outside of favourite surface then djokovic would be 6 and nadal 7.Also federer loves fast hardcourt as well which aus open is now and us ooen used to be in 2000s still he is just 1 ahead of rafa.
Hawaiian grip
Professional
Another madeup yardstick for Fedfans to be able to sleep at night.
skaj
Legend
Or maybe some favor their favorite major more than others. Btw, are you sure that Novak's favorite slam is not Wimbledon?
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
RF´s combo was lame, because it TOTALLY depended on Rafa being injured. He vultured that Channel Slam in 2009 whereas Rafa won it fair and square twice.
ForehandRF
Legend
Talking about objectivity no ?
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Incognito
Legend
He did it, that’s all that matters! At the end of the tournaments, he was the last man standing. Laver, Borg, Nadal and Federer = masters of transitioning from clay to grass!!
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
I would never dispute that. RF played many excellent FO/W over the years. It´s not like he doesn´t deserve a Channel Slam. He does. But he relied on a major piece of luck regarding injury of his main foe.
ForehandRF
Legend
Yeah right, Fed vultures, but Nadal wins fair an square no ? You can't be more biased than that.Every player wins it fair and square and no player's channel slam can be considered lame.Judgind your style, Nadal vultured Wimbledon 2010 because he didn't have to face either Djojkovic or Federer.In reality, it's not his fault that both lost early, just like it's not Fed's fault that Nadal lost early at RG 2009 or was injured at Wimbedon.It's to a player's credit if he stays uninjured and wins a slam.More than that, there is no guarantee that Nadal would have reached Fed in the final of Wimby (see USO 2008 for instance) or even beat him and you can't say that he was injured at RG and that's why he lost because at the same time you always criticise Fed fans when talking about mono in 2008.Then again, both Rafa and Fed won the Channel Slam fair and square and your message was intended to downgrade Fed's achievement and you acted like a typical detractor.
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UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Nadal vultured a few, of course he did. Like this year´s USO. But at least he played a great finale in which he outplayed a future ATG.
RF vultured the most. Took advantage of injuries in 2009, 2017.
Ladron
New User
We cannot look at versatility that way. There are 2 Harcourt slams compared to one for clay and one for grass. Given that Federer and Djokovic are better at hc, that puts Nadal at a disadvantage.
Ladron
New User
I don't think anyone vultured anything. You can only beat whoever is in front of you. You are beginning to sound as bad as Nadal haters to whinge about 2013.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Vultures are wonderful birds, I have no idea why they get so much hate. They are clever and seize every opportunity. They are winners.
Lastmanstanding
New User
Nadal only player with Majors on all surfaces at least twice. Nadal only player in same calendar year to win majors on all 3 surfaces. Nadal only one of the three to win a Channel Slam .
Djokovic only player to hold all 4 majors at once and to have won every Masters 1000.
Not really sure of the point if this thread other than to show of the 3 federer is the least versatile.
Lastmanstanding
New User
Lol
Ladron
New User
This is a little stupid. Djokovic isn't more versatile than Federer and he isn't even close. Federer has double digit slams away from his favourite slam as the OP said (in his disingenuous post).
Ladron
New User
He didnt. Peak Nadal was 2008 and 2010 (was injured in 2009).
They dont have to be 5 years apart to have peaked in different stages. Djokovic never beat peak Nadal. Instead, Nadal had to deal with peak Djokovic for year after year and still Rafa has 19 slams compared to Djokovic.
Ladron
New User
Nadal is the most dominant player on a single surface in tennis. He is also very versatile. Your comment though isn't relevant to the discussion.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
This is ludicrous, and even If it was true, which it isn't, Djokovic still beat Nadal in those three years.
ForehandRF
Legend
Wimbledon is the most prone to upsets though.
Ladron
New User
In how many slams did Djokovic beat Nadal during those years (Nadal's peak)?
What was the slam count for each?
The fact is that Djokovic couldn't compete with Nadal before Nadal exited his preak. Which is why most tennis fans dont rate his slams as highly.
King_ Zeglan12
Professional
So, conversely we can ask in how many slams did Nadal beat Djokovic during his peak (2011 & 2015)..
P.S I'm a Nadal fan too but this circular logic doesn't work..
Ladron
New User
It isn't relevant to the discussion because Nadal had to face a prime Federer when Nadal was at his best, while Djokovic had to face neither when he peaked.
Moreover, you dont get to pick and choose which years Djokovic supposedly peaked in. He didnt peak for a year and then decline for 3 straight years before peaking again. If we say that he reached his peak from 2011-2015, then that's the stretch we are looking at.
I'm not sure you really understand what circle logic means.
Ladron
New User
He isn't. Racking up slams when Nadal and Federer are past their best and when the next gen provides no challenge isn't the competition that the big 2 faced. And yet he still trails both in the slam count.
Nadal had to face peak Federer from 2005-2009/2010 or else he would have had the chance to have all 4. Federer faced Nadal at his best and therefore couldn't get the RG to complete the set.
To even compare Djoko to Rafa (or Fed) is an insult to them.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic is the best. Past their best bs is just excuses. Same argument can be applied to Fed and Ned aswell and we are running around in circles. Unnecessery discussion.
Fact is Djokovic has won 13 slams beating one of Fed and Nadal on the way to the title.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Dude, don't even try it. This guy actually believes 2019 Nadal is better than 2008 Nadal. You will never be able to convince him with logic and facts. In his opinion what is important about a player is his name, not his current form.
Ladron
New User
He isn't. That's why he trails both in slams despite the fact that he had weaker competition than either.
Ladron
New User
Dude, don't even try it. This guy actually believes 2019 Nadal is better than 2008 Nadal. You will never be able to convince him with logic and facts. In his opinion what is important about a player is his name, not his current form.
I'm gathering that from his responses. His only rebuttal is "Djoko is better. Stop it dude. He is better".
Anyone who thinks 2019 is even a 1/10th of 2008 Nadal doesn't know anything about tennis
King_ Zeglan12
Professional
Djokovic had a prime Nadal when he peaked in 2011
Picking and choosing peak years doesn't apply to Nadal either
He was at his prime from 2008 -2013
The conclusion is Djokovic beat well playing versions of both Nadal and Federer in his slam wins and vice versa too
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