Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.
Moyes offers Everton £28 Millon for Fellaini and Baines? Oh dear, he clearly has alot to learn.
After watching three days of action, I'm feeling that purealph4 & I are getting the short end of the stick.
Breaker's boys are clubbing Newcastle like a baby seal at the moment.
Nick & Fena's Blues looked sharp (for 45 minutes) and even Ross's Spuds are going to be great this year.
It's going to be a long year I fear. #Wengerout but who would we get to replace him? Graeme Souness or Big Sam
I think it's fair to say that despite the club being quite disfunctional atm (owner who has no interest; CEO who has no authority, and is not a persuasive or respected figure in European football circles; dictatorial, stubborn manager, who refuses to cede power to anyone else; manager's staff who have almost been totally unchanged in 17 years, leading to no infusion of new ideas / practices; struggling academy / youth set-up, which has recently released huge swathes of players as being sub-standard; mutinous fanbase etc etc), Wenger probably has the most secure tenure of all managers in the league. The only person who could remove Wenger at Arsenal is the owner, Stan Kroenke, and he has no interest in the club or the sport whatsoever; as long as his investment is looking comparatively rosy, he wouldn't pay the slightest consideration to Arsenal. With the new corporate deals and PL TV money, the club could plod along for a few years more at the same level as currently (making a modest accounting profit every season, while adding significantly to cash balances / reducing net debt, even outside of the CL) before it all catches up with them, so Kroenke will feel no pressure to act this year.
So essentially the question of a replacement is bankrupt. For what it is worth, I would keep Wenger regardless until the end of the season (following last season's prescription that he's on a tightrope, but the last remaining goodwill towards him always earns him the next season if we have made the CL), but not let him waste the 7 years of accumulated retained earnings now on more pathetic, desperate panic buys. Irrespective of what others might say about our decline, the Arsenal job would be an attractive draw next summer if it offered the prospect of starting a fresh project from scratch in the manager's image, with £100m+ to spend on reshaping the squad, a wage bill pared of most of the waste, and all the hard-work of stadium financing and enforced austerity in the rear-view mirror. But I think a whole lot else at the club needs to be shaken up just to give a manager a fair crack (need an external executive who understands football clubs to establish a division of power and responsibilities at a club that has become used to one man deciding everything - which probably necessitates Gazidis being replaced, or at very least growing a pair and changing his outlook).
Anyway, we hope for the best for the squad for Wednesday in Istanbul!
3. Chelsea (2nd 3rd could go either way)
6. Liverpool (5th 6th could go either way)
I back City for the title because they now have a manager who will attack more and make better use of his talented and deep squad. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being either United or Chelsea, but I think without quality new additions United may be a little short without the 10+ points a season Fergie was worth, and Chelsea may still be liable to have what has become their annual blip (even under Mourinho).
I'd probably put Spurs as a 50% chance to finish 4th, Arsenal at 35% (this is assuming Wenger brings in 2 or 3 on deadline day), and Liverpool at 15%.
Top scorer obviously RVP.
Whaaaat. Chelsea have a blip under Mourinho, but City go through the season with a relatively unproven manager, in his first season in the Premier League, without an issue? Not sure about that.
Chelsea will be winning it for me, the Manchester teams will be fighting for second imo.
i've been pretty good at predicting the Chelsea position over the last 4 or so years in the thread. People laughed at me with my prediction of 6th a few years ago, but it happened.
City will do well in the Champions League this year under the new manager, but to be more consistent than a Mourinho team (who always wins the title in his first season, usually by record margins)? Don't see it personally.
This made me smile off Twitter...
BREAKING: Arsenal put in a bid for Daniel Levy.
12:56 PM - 20 Aug 2013
What's fascinating about Arsenal's case is what they have, structurally at the moment which would be appealing to any prespective manager - zero debt, the club owns the stadium which is payed off in full, the best scouting network on the planet (albeit one that isn't utilized in full), a massive youth setup, an amazing training complex, and above all else, money.
Gazidis isn't worth jack (and considering I've met him multiple times as he used to live a few streets over when he was the Deputy Commissioner at MLS and my neighbor and him are very close; so I'm kind of going out on a limb by saying this no matter how truthful it is) and is way out of his league. Wenger is great and should either become director of the youth setup or director of football. He is too valuable as a person to simply be let go. Get someone new in there as the atmosphere at Arsenal has grown stale. The fans need to grow some balls, too. If they don't like Kronke's desire to not spend any money, they should vote with their feet/wallets and hit his bottom line. He sees Arsenal as a profitable club, which is a good thing for the club, but not for it's first team. If those yearly profits could come out to 10 or 15 million, that's still a decent return because the club has zero outstanding financial expenditures and can use that extra 35-45 million to buy players which in turn makes the value of the club as a whole increase (better players = better position in the league = team is more commercially viable = better sponsors = more money)
Come off it.
And Fena, Mou does typically win the league in his first season, but he did not at Madrid, it wasn't until his second season he won it all. He only captured the Copa del Rey in his first season.
Lot more ITK and general feedback coming in now that Willian and Lamela negotiations are coming to the boil... one or both please! Lamela being my personal choice. Oh, I love this transfer window.
Lamela isn't ready yet....he is still so young and a bit on the fragile side, give him another season or two before buying him as he is learning so much at Roma.
Yes, but 2010 Barcelona vs 2013 Man City? Totally different.
Stopping Messi and the rest of them was a challenge he had to warm up to. Getting more points than Kompany, Fernandinho and Dzeko? He can do that in his sleep
Just like we were talking about a month or so back. Selling Bale = Lamela, Willian, Paulinho, Capoue, Soldado etc..
Spurs are going to be much scarier without him. Although you could do with a defender or two
I'm glad someone does
When I think of Kroenke, I think of his Rams in the NFL, he's all about the profit. He could care less about fielding a contender. Great for his pocketbook but stinks as a fan.
Wenger just needs a real boss to hold his feet to the fire and Ivan is not it.
All will be right when Mata moves later this week to us :twisted:
Wenger is preparing a £5 Million offer as we speak :lol:
Oh Arsene, what have you become.
You're wrong, we won't a pay a penny of 4 mil!
I'll have to say that with my neutral glasses on, City looked the most dangerous yesterday. Just eviscerated Newcastle. Loved the towering header from Silva.
We'll find out tomorrow just how good Villa really is. Hopefully, they can bring their referee with them as well.
Well we're owed a penalty after they didn't give that blatant one on Ivanovic! Will be interesting to see which group of new players will have the biggest impact.. Negredo, Navas, Fernandinho, Jovetic vs Lukaku, Van Ginkel, De Bruyne, Schurrle.
Chelsea obviously spent alot less, with most coming back from loan, they are also alot younger.
Haha - we'll see! I think that because, as you've long pointed out, you haven't brought in the bustling, deeper lying midfielders (is van Ginkel the solution here, or Luiz? What happened to Romeu?). The blip usually happens once the weather turns and the quality of the pitches heads downhill - exactly when you need the steel in the middle.
Anyway, bearing in mind the 2nd half vs Hull was reminiscent of Mourinho Mk I, and he seems happy with his squad, I wouldn't be surprised to see Chelsea end up top.
The club actually still holds quite a lot of debt, but the net debt situation is much healthier (about £100m, due to cash assets of over £150m). The stadium will be paid off by 2031 (about £19m a year in interest and principal repayment - easily manageable). But your point is spot on, everything at the club seems to be in place to really kick on, but it's all constrained at the moment by the culture and mentality at the club, embodied by its leaders. This is probably an understandable result of the culture and mentality that was necessary to successfully execute the move to the new stadium: restraint, sacrifice, patience, caution, parsimony etc. That's why I believe we need the senior personnel to be replaced.
I do agree that it would be a tragedy to let someone as talented as Wenger go. However, it's not really a possibility to retain him as a Director of Football, or in any position that interacts with the manager, as he would simply interfere. The guy is pretty much omnipotent and unchallengeable at Arsenal; he is a really intelligent and focussed guy, but it's pretty clear that he is power-hungry and untrusting. Anyway, he'll be snapped up immediately by someone else if we let him go.
Re Gazidis, it's not surprising things have turned out how they have. The appointment was effectively made by Wenger (yes, a manager appointing his boss), so he brought in someone with the skillset to broker the much-needed new commercial deals, but who didn't have the stature or personality to challenge his own authority.
Re fans voting with their feet at the stadium (Arsenal is pretty much the only top club where match-day sales constitute over 50% of revenues, due to the crappy legacy commercial deals which made financing the stadium possible), I believe it is starting to happen. The much-publicised season ticket waiting list of 50,000 fans pretty much doesn't exist; 50,000 people may have stumped up £20 to have the option, but the ability and willingness to pay clearly isn't there (they were trying to flog season tickets by email this summer, right until kick-off on Saturday). Games actually go to 'general sale' now (unthinkable two or three years ago), where no club membership is needed, at which point the stadium will always fill up due to the sheer volume of tourists in London at any point.
Agreed - probably the majority of Arsenal fans would turn a blind eye to his tactical oversights and embrace his continued tenure if a new CEO / Chairman came in who could hold him to account, and forcibly take some of the work-load off him. But it's clear that's an impossibility: Wenger would not appoint such a figure, because they would diminish his authority (as stated before, why he brought in a weak-chinned soft-c*ck as CEO); and Kroenke wouldn't make such a move, because he believes his financial interest in the club is tied to Wenger's miserly ways (his understanding of Arsenal Football Club doesn't extend beyond 'I will invest because there is a guy there who has a track record of making the club money').
It's a shame, because if Wenger was appointed director of football, they could retain the structure and bring in someone awesome like Klopp (and give him Piski Stojkovic as his assistant), give him 100 million to spend; and from there on out Arsenal would straight up dominate.
WOW! Sociedad just scored an awesome goal in their qualifier vs Lyon.
Bale to go for 93 mil?... Willian, Lamela, Concentrau in?... If this comes to pass I am officially declaring this the best transfer window seen at WHL ever. Pardon me for sounding OTT but it wasn't that long ago we were bringing in the likes of Ryan Nelson and Louis Saha and calling it "triffic business".
In light of today's result, please disregard all my complaining from the last few days.
Don't worry I'll start again after we struggle against Fulham.
It appears no one told Fener that they're playing football and not rugby.
It was a great result, and everyone's fully behind the team, but I don't think tonight has anything to do with some of the inefficiencies in how the club is being run. Even if we finish 4th, how the club is being run still needs to be sorted out. Just some basic steps that are necessary to give us a chance to maximise the use of our resources. Our first XI, even without additions, IS strong enough to beat Villa and Fener, but with the resources available it SHOULD be stronger, and there certainly SHOULDN'T be a shambles in transfer activity / squad management like this summer.
Good night for Arsene and Arsenal fans, though.
The solution is simple. Bid 40 million pounds for Russian international superstar Andrei Arshavin.
wenger is a known ditherer in the transfer market, and it ends up with the player feeling slightly insulted through a perceived lack of interest, or another club come in and beats him to it,
david dein was the ideal foil for wenger, he could follow and close a deal in no time..
now you hear wenger say.."we will offer what we think is the right amount for the player" ..talk about deluded, the buying club don't call the shots it always the selling club..
expect a last minute panic buying spree like last august...every year is groundhog day, no wonder the fans were going mental on Saturday.
The latest i'm hearing is they want Benzema. Why is Wenger wasting his time? Madrid have already sold Higuain this summer, so Benzema is the only striker they have left. No chance of Madrid selling him.
Caught a replay of the Arsenal game just now. Extremely impressed with Ramsey. The kid has really stepped it up a notch since the second half of last season.
Only recently heard about him, some of the descriptions of how football was back then were funny though.
"England would run with the ball in a rolling maul, like in rugby, but with the ball at the feet rather than in the hand," says Southwick. A player dribbling would be protected by his team-mates barging opponents out the of way.
In contrast, their Scottish opponents ran forward in pairs, passing the ball between themselves. It was called the "combination game", an early version of modern football.
Sounds like how England play today
Saw that one too. Is Arsene drunk?
Even Real is not made out of money and might need to sell to stomach that Bale transfer.
I've often wondered what would happen if things ever got back to "normal" economic wise.
If interest rates were not manipulated lower by every central bank around the world. The dollar would likely rally over time,
Oil, being denominated in Dollars, in would dip dramatically in response. Oil demand is already down over the last five years so that would be natural.
The coffers might be a little bit bare at the petro dollar clubs. Not picking on them but look at what happened at Anzhi with the collapse of potash prices.
I realize that a player is worth what the market says he's worth.
Is Bale worth north of 90 mil, not IMO. Is Higuin is really worth 30 plus mil? Napoli said he was but they said that because took receipt of PSG's funny money that said Cavani was worth north of 50 m.
I really rate Suarez as a player (but not as a person) but I'm a bit relieved we didn't end up with him.
Re Willian, hideous reports and speculation building that Chelsea have stepped in at the very last second (and this is after he's had the flipping medical at WHL for crying out loud!) and offered him twice as much wages and that he's now favourite to sign for the blues...
Well, with that legendarily slimy agent in tow, I wouldn't be surprised, though very disappointed. However, if something similar happens with Lamela, I'm am going to be seriously... ahem... let's call it 'hacked off.'
Anyhow, will see how events unfold. But re Willian going to Chelski, only the movement of Mata headed the opposite way would significantly soften that particular potential blow, and that's pretty unlikely.
That blows but at this point, you've got another four great signings. Still a great transfer season. Levy's not afraid to pull the trigger and AvB knows how to play them. Should be fun.
I'm still loving the idea of Man City playing unshackled by Mancini. All that talent running free on the pitch. Neutral heaven
Too true re first point. And I completely agree re 'Citeh'.
Right now though it's all bit weird. Bale still hasn't actually been sold yet. Lamela not confirmed officially. And the one that really seemed all but clinched - Willian - appears to be the object of a late dirty manoeuvre via Roman giving the Anzhi chairman a last-gasp phone call. Which takes us into Fena territory...
Where the heck would Willian play in your side lol?... Have CFC finally accepted Rooney ain't happening?... Is there perhaps something in the long-standing suspicion of quite a few that JM doesn't actually want Mata?... Is the Willian move a JM/Real conspiracy to spite Spurs'/Levy?! :shock:
In other Spurs news, apparently we've made a serious enquiry about L. Podolski (not sure quite what to think of that.) Great to see Soldado scoring a few more earlier today, and that our man of the match wasn't some multi-million quid signing from abroad but actually the home-grown youngster, Andros Townsend.
You are welcome to him. Not a bad player but he's not particularly fast, not great in the middle and hates tracking back. Kind of a svelte version of Arshavin.
His best days have all come in a Germany shirt and not at club level.
Int'l football isn't what it used to be, for that, I think CL is the place to be.
I haven't watched him a lot. Didn't realise he was so, er, average.
Really lazy. Guys aren't usually that washed up until their mid 30's. Remember Ravenelli at Derby back in the early 2000's
90 millions? Hum........ I would pay twice that value, as long as I never more need to listen anything thing about Gareth Bale's transfer .
Flamini going back to Arsenal
So the rumor is that Mourinho is eager to give United 15 million PLUS Mata for Rooney?!?!?!?!?!? That's nuts. If I was United I'd offer Rooney and 20 million for Mata, not the other way around.
Absolutely bonkers what you read in the papers these days.
And Luiz is apparently in talks with Barcelona? Mourinho, what the hell are you trying to do?
The news i've heard is that Man Utd want Mata in any deal for Rooney, which is probably why they said he was involved in the original offer to put it out there. Chelsea won't do that.
Haven't heard anything about Luiz, seems all quiet to me.
The Willian thing seems to be genuine, which i'm hoping isn't true. He's not that great imo, with the problems we're having in the striker position it makes no sense spending money on another attacking midfielder.
We still need a defensive midfielder who can pass. Against Villa and Hull, after the great starts it all went slowly downhill. During the second half in both games Hazard and Oscar were getting the ball around the half way line, they're incredible players but you can't expect them to produce from that position on the pitch. We need someone who can use the ball well and get them ball to them where they can be dangerous.
Look at the first goals against Hull and Villa, Hazard and Oscar did work around the penalty area (De Bruyne was involved in the first from the edge of the box). That's where those players are lethal, we have to get them in those positions more often, that's where a creative deeper player comes in.
Not sure Spurs wouldn't be better off ditching any remaining interest in Wilian (specially with Kia K. representing him and whoring him around) and making last-minute bid for Eriksen or Pjanic instead.
Re gooners, see that Benzema is being linked... wonder how he'd do in the PL? Looked like an awesome player a few years back.
He really isn't all that great, Mkhitaryan was Shakhtar's best player the last few years. Willian left in Janaury, the price he's comanding is way over the top.
Spurs might aswell go for Suarez and give him the free role from the left Bale had, if they're getting near enough £100 Million and they can handle him being an idiot.
What the hell will Chelsea do with Willian? Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Schurrle, De Bruyne, Moses and all the youth team players we have in that position (Piazon, Traore etc..). Would be pure madness to throw big money at someone as average as Willian.
Get Eto'o for £5 Million and try to get a deeper midfielder with the other £25 Million makes much more sense.
Forget all those players, Spurs should ask for 65 million and Ozil in exchange for Bale as all the other left-sided players are being cleared out of Madrid. He would absolutely wreck the Premier League.
Mourinho has said at his friday press conference that Willian is happening. Meh.
At least he's a bit more direct than what we have at the moment, still a poor use of £32 Million though.
Meanwhile Wenger used his presser to inform everyone that there is not as much money to spend as people think.
If so, what is the 154m cash on the balance sheet for? And where is the 65m per annum positive cashflow generated each season going?
Or could it be that Wenger is trying to change perceptions (that he's desperate, and loaded with cash) prior to the trolley dash, after his CEO set the stage for negotiating so well at the start of his summer by making a big fuss about 70m to spend?
Great shout... but man do I hate Willian. :evil: And I can't fathom for the life of me how he can expect to play regularly at CFC. Crazy as Spurs clearly need such a player in such a position and the blues have at least 5 options there.
I don't want Willian....he's not good enough to get into Brazil's 18 so Chelsea have no use for him. 32 million for him is absolutely insane.
What happened to the "happy one"
2 victories and he's already back to his old tricks. Great to have someone to root against again other than just JT.
Mourinho could barely conceal his satisfaction when asked how confident he was of pipping Spurs to the player.
“That’s a good question because I think he already made his decision,” he said, before nodding like the cat that got the cream when asked if that decision was Chelsea.
Mourinho accused Spurs of making a fatal mistake by not managing to keep details of the player’s medical a secret before Chelsea swooped to steal him from under their noses.
Haha, uncanny - I was about to post virtually the exact same sentiment... yep, well, it certainly hasn't taken JM very long to get right on my nerves... I also thought they were somewhat fortunate against Villa with some poor decisions from the ref.
:lol: come off it. You sound like those grumpy Aussie's at the cricket today. When Watson said Pietersen was there to babysit Bell, and KP said "You what? He's got 20 centuries, you've only got 3 mate"
There were 4 decisions in the Villa game, Ivanovic could of gone for that elbow, Benteke retaliated and threw his own 3 minutes later. Both players were awarded yellow cards for the respective incidents, no problem, as long as the referee is consistent you know where you stand and it's fair all round.
The other were the two handballs. Terry had it headered down onto his arm from less than a foot away, whilst at the other end Hazard kicked it from a yard away onto a Villa players arm (the move where Lukaku ended up getting that quick shot away into the side netting). Both players were too close to the ball to do anything about it, both weren't penalties, both weren't given.
Refereeing was consistent all game, that's all you can ask for.
Can someone please find an Andy Carroll type available at very short notice for Liverpool, so that they can sell Suarez to Real, and Real then be willing to start flogging their own players to pay for some of the £150m they'll have splashed on the chimp and the rat?
The Real Madrid front line for next season..
Haha - probably unfair to throw Bale into the same basket as Suarez, though, seeing as everyone seems to describe him as a level-headed and decent bloke.
Aren't the Spanish known for making monkey noises at games? That could get awkward...
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