Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.
Özil is simply a fantastic player and I just cannot believe Madrid would sell him off. I'm still :shock:
What an idiotic management that club has. Probably why they have been winning very little for a club of it's history and means for a while now...
Congrats to Arsenal fans. I do hope they win something now, or Mesut will be wasting his time there.
Both Robben and Sneijder have won the CL after leaving Madrid... while the club hasn't even been in a final.
What's wrong with that pass?
And yeah, I rate Iniesta VERY highly, but Mesut is simply incredible, and will raise the bar set by Iniesta. With that being said, nobody can dream of matching Iniesta's trophy cabinet - that is simply impossible.
And I rate Xavi ahead of them both, just to prove to everyone here that I'm not completely batshit insane.
Nothing at all, I was agreeing with you how good he is. To chip it like that through 2/3 defenders is amazing.
For me personally though, Iniesta is the best of the three. Xavi second, Ozil is still a distant third.
I wish we had gotten him
When are we going to get rid of International football?
Two weeks off from the real stuff to see Moldova and Ukraine? Pfft.
Just hope him and Wilshere may become together at Arsenal what Xavi and Iniesta have been at Barcelona.
European qualifying matches are so lame. San Marino and Moldova (to name just two) just shouldn't be playing against the likes of Germany and Spain.
Add England to that
There are teams i'm not a big fan of, Arsenal, Spurs, Leeds etc.. i'll watch those any day of the week over England though.
That he is most certainly is, PED, and the hype has kicked in here in n. London with press centring on him and his g-friend - all very Beckham/Posh Spice style. As a player, he is absolute class, fantastic, and I can totally see why ppl are getting excited and saying things like it's the best AFC signing since Bergkamp.
However, one thought does present itself to me: where are the similarly top top quality players in the present gunners side like Dennis had surrounding him in his heyday? You'll know better than me but from the outside it seemed apparent the side really need reinforcing in a number of other areas. But, hey, what does this here Spurs fan know, especially after last Sunday. :evil:
Yes, same for me.
Iniesta and Xavi are all time greats. Legends of the game.
What about the RvP headlines re his unhappiness under Moyes eh? Can't stand his training methods and really misses Fergie. Catastrophic stuff for Moyes and a further indictment following their so-so displays of late and lack of big signings.
Well you're British, right? I get your frustration.
There are certainly some lame matches going on, but Serbia-Croatia is a perl among them imo.
Heated atmospehere between those two rivals should make up for a nice match. Don't know who to cheer for though.
Wenger and Ferguson... Moyes is a bit of a come down. Still, not really much point coming out and saying it, not like he could leave even if he wanted to.
Yeah, it's all over the papers, the radio, tv. Everywhere you look during the two weeks, the talk is about England. Does my head in.
For me, the season doesn't really start till we've got these National games out the way and the Champions League starts up. Even when my team weren't involved, hearing the Champions League anthem on a Wednesday night and seeing Man Utd or Arsenal against the best teams from Europe was as good as it got. These days it's even bigger and better.
What if England had to play Germany though, or Spain (the way you get Argentina vs. Brasil in qualifying matches here)?.
It'd be something else.
Not for me personally. Always enjoyed club competition, at any level, more than the National sides.
Give me League One playoffs over a jumble of players who play together a few times each year based on where they were born. Just my preference, but it does very little for me.
I agree with Jogi Low's comments about how there needs to be pre-qualifying for several teams around the world for WCQs and again in Europe for the Euros. In Asia, teams waste so much time (and players having to fly to the other side of the world) just to play minnows like Fiji, Tahiti, Samoa, etc... Same goes for Europe, where tons of time is wasted to have Lichtenstein, Moldova, Faroe Islands, Kazakhstan, Luxembourg, Andorra, San Marino etc... in the same qualifying groups as world cup champions.
Pointless really. What will UEFA do next, phone up the Pope to see if the Vatican team wants to have a go for qualifying for Euro '16?
Being from Argentina, maybe he could manage them. Just have to hope England don't get them in their group though, the Vatican fans are a rowdy bunch, God knows what they will be like when they hammer us.
I totally agree, with all the cash the clubs have now, they can afford to assemble a team of the best. Champs league is the best in the world now.
Difficult to know what is going on at United. Started the season with an easy win in what could have been a tricky fixture. Played poorly against Chelsea and then even worse against Liverpool. All sorts of chatter about transfers, most of which seems at best unreliable. Now an atmosphere of gloom is threatening.
Thank God there will be some rugby to watch this weekend.
Metersacker will convince them all to come next January/Summer.
Haha, that closing comment made me chuckle, S.
Kaka also happened to be the only guy who came close to Messi and Ronaldo, although many people believe him to have been as good as both when he was fit (although he was a different player). He wasn't a fiasco, he was unlucky - arguably the most complete midfielder of this era (seriously he put Xavi and Iniesta to shame).
So true my friend.
We do need more key players but Arsene has proven excellent at developing talent as well. Think back to Henry, Cesc, Nasri, Song and of course, RvP.
Not sure Wilshire can ever stay fit long enough (shades of Owen) but Ramsey is really coming on, Koscielny is fast and solid and Walcott and Giroud have raised their game.
I think our starting 11 is at least as good as Utd. The problem is we are not deep at all.
City and Spurs look dangerous on paper and if they gel, they're going to be tough, really tough over the long hard season. We'll have to see how all those Spaniards like visiting Stoke or Newcastle come January I remember Santi's comments after the first Stoke game and he said he didn't know football was played like that.
No way. His passing and his vision of the game are nowhere near of these two. Plus he has had a much shorter carrer
Call me when iniesta or Xavi can do these things, or better yet, beat Ronaldo and Messi in a world player of the year award (Kaka placed 1st and 2nd in 07 & 08).
PS. Shorter career due to injuries. They count. How do you know he wouldn't have improved, it's like Safin I guess, that guy had a short career, I don't know anyone who would pick Roddick over Safin?
+1 Most complete midfielder of the last decade has to be Frank Lampard.
I'm not saying he's the best or most the gifted midfielder, but certainly most all around if you take all aspects of the game into account including work rate, defence and stamina. Plus, of all midfielders he's probably the best goalscorer.
No. Kaka has everything; Pass, touch, control, flair, speed, goals and does track back. Gerrerd is a better player than Lampard from an all round perspective. Lastly, how many attempts does Lampard have anyway? Like 1000 per match. now way is he more rounded than Kaka, what a joke!
Gerrard is better at tackling/defending, but isn't as nearly as dangerous as Lampard going forward. Yes he scores the occasional screamer from long range. But his goalscoring record doesn't compare to Lampard's.
Neither of them is as fast or flashy as Kaka, but Kaka is almost entirely offensive minded and more of an individualist than a teamplayer. Unlike Lampard/Gerard.
I won't see it, because you can use youtube clips to support that kind of assertion about any good player, means nothing really. I could do it with Iniesta e Xavi.
It's a political award, also means nothing.
It doesn't matter whether he would improve or not. He did get injured and that what counts. I can't take away merits from Xavi and Iniesta because they didn't neither will add merits to what Kaka could have done.
In the end of day, Xavi and Iniesta have performed at a very high level for more time than Kaka and as a bonus did the difference to their national squad. That's why they deserve more to be ahead of Kaka
I see what you did there!
Agree. Kaka back in his heyday (2004-2007) was by and far the most influential footballer in the world - he was always the difference in matches, with Milan or Brazil. Ronaldo nor Messi can claim to always be the difference, especially with the supporting cast they've got.
Yes way. If he never got to injuries he accumulated I think he would have been up there with the Xavis and Iniestas of modern football. But those two play a much different position than Kaka - Xavi slows the play down and conducts the whole team. Iniesta controls the offensive third. Kaka controlled the game.
No way! I'd take Pirlo over Lampard in that department any day of the week. Hell, Gerrard is more complete than Lampard, and I support Chelsea!
Pirlo is a wonderful footballer and with superior vision and technique to almost any other, but his limited physique and inability to win duels makes him not a strong contender for 'most complete midfielder. '
Kaka single handedly won the champions league and every other title for Milan in an ageing squad which compromised of ancient Pirlo and Maldini (although gods of football no doubt) and everyone in that team was past it or close enough.
Been up there with Xavi and Iniesta? kaka was capable of running from one end of the pitch (beating many people left and right) to putting the ball in the back of the goal, he outclasses Xavi/Iniesta for pace, skill and his shot, lastly, kaka never dived, nor did he try to over do it with the skills (he was a team player to boot). I'll always rate kaka 04-07 as good as anyone, although Ronaldinho is arguably the most gifted player ever.
Oh you mean the annual Lionel Messi appreciation award? Well Kaka definately earned it in 2007, being the best player by far, winning the Champions League with Milan, being the CL Top Scorer. Though I agree this award turned out to be a complete JOKE the last few years.
Anyway, I agree Xavi and Iniesta are all time greats who carried Barca to great success. I'm still ****ed at those goddamn idiots for not awarding Xavi the Ballon d'Or in 2010. Shows what a joke the award actually is.
I'd rate them with Xavi at #1, Iniesta second and Kaka third.
But when I had to chose between them in a particular timeframe, I'd take 2006/2007 KAKA anyday. Incredible performances. He was really unfortunate with those injuries.
I don't see how? kaka from 04-07 was superior in pretty much every way from a technical and physical side. Xavi and Iniesta are better passers (although Kaka was no slouch), but Kaka had everything else. He outclasses them for pace, agility, shot, skill, work ethic etc. Those two had restricted roles, like Nick said, Kaka didn't need to be restricted (in a weaker team too) and could do anything on the pitch.
You make it sound like kaka had two good seasons, oh well at least there was a time he was the best, all be it briefly.
That's how I'd rate them career wise dude. Kaka was just unfortunate with those injuries. As I said, when it comes to their very best, I'd take Kaka any day, every day ahead of them.
Ok yes, career wise, I agree.
Definitely. What exactly is supposed to be the point in the way it's done now?. Rather boring, predictable matches, teams don't get much valuable practice, stats get skewed.
Pirlo? Yeah, could well be.
Gerrard though? lol. All he has is a hollywood pass, most of the time it goes wrong. Lampard has way more to his game, even now as a 35 year old he's turned himself into a destroyer. You saw what he did against Barcelona and Munich in the Champions League win, he turned himself into 2006 Gattuso the way he was scrapping around, nobody was getting through him.
Back in 2005 against the might Barcelona, those epic games against Chelsea when it was Xavi, Deco, Iniesta against Makelele and Lampard. Even though the game has moved on since then, that was probably the highest level of midfield battle i've ever seen, there was literally no space and you had to play a pass before the ball even got to you. Rijkaard said how incredible it was for Lampard to boss the battle against 3 of the modern greats, not playing his own game. The level he produced that night meant he came out on top of those 5.
Barcelona had the slick passing style, but the tempo they played at then was much quicker than today where they stand around and have time on the ball. Gerrard would of been trying to lump it forward at every opportunity.
Look at their trophy cabinets if more evidence was needed, i've never really got the debate between the two, it's not even close.
Why is it when I read this I immediately heard the 'University Challenge' theme music and a voice announcing: "My name is Fena and my specialist subject is Frank Lampard is WAY better than Steven Gerrard'...
Hahah! There's something i've got a degree, Masters and a doctorate in
Although to be fair, it is easier to get than a hairdressing BTEC. You only need to show up for 10 minutes for them to show you video analysis of them both for it to be pretty evident
Nice one 'arry! Anyone who's read Lampards book will know what kind of crap he had to put up with from the West Ham fans going up. Now he's one of the best midfielders of his generation (alongside Xavi, Pirlo, Schweinsteiger and Iniesta imo).
To of seen up close what he did at the Villa game away at the end of last season says it all. Struggling to make top 4, losing 1-0, down to 10 men and Mata was running on fumes. He took it on himself to put out fires all over the midfield, curl in a left footed shot from outside the penalty area, straight in the top corner, then had the stamina and desire to get infront of everyone to steal the winner in the last minute. The fact those two goals put him level with Tambling, then the winner made him our all time top goal scorer on 203 was incredible.
Having been at FA Cup wins at Wembley, the celebration when he got there was 10 times as big as any cup win i've seen.
"Why did you get rid of Matt Holland and keep Lampard? He's rubbish?" :lol:
The usual uninspiring fare from Hodgson's England last night. As with for Spurs, Walker particularly frustrating (think we could all do with some nitrous oxide after watching that! ) Same with the mystifyingly crap Walcott. And as for one of the few rare real players of top quality - Wilshire, the whole time he looks as if he's on the verge of getting crocked. Always seems to be crumpling in a heap. Has this worrying air around him the whole time of impending injury.
Most exciting player by far was a new one for me - Konoplyanka. Really eye-catching skills and speed. One definitely to watch out for.
Anyhow, great, back to the Prem...
Didn't even know the game was last night, thought it was Wednesday!
But yes, back to the real stuff at the weekend. They had a few guests on Soccer AM at the weekend, Example is a Fulham fan and he said he would take them winning the FA Cup over the World Cup in his life time, same for the host, a Cambridge fan. Steve Harper said he would prefer to see Newcastle win than England etc..
Do people really care about the National side?
Well, going way back (eras of Robson, Venables, Hoddle, Keegan even), I think people did care and were much more into it up until the end of Sven's ultimately disappointing tenure. However, McLaren and especially Capello's reigns truly seemed to herald a new low. The Hodgson era thus far seems to be carrying on in the same manner as McClaren and Capello... so, in the main the answer is surely 'no.'
I think Sven was actually very good and did as well as anyone else could have, World Cup 2002 was very impressive thought - we were the only one's not to get banged by Brazil and at one point we were leading a team that consisted of Cafu, Carlos, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho etc, we would have been finalists if we didn't meet the Brazilians at the QF's.
Quoted for truth IMO...
Ah, the return of "would have, should have, could have".
Honestly? Who cares?. You wouldn't have faced anyone really good until the finals anyway.
Nice day at the office for my lot. We looked pretty good actually and imagine when our players get settled and Lamela replaces shoot from everywhere Townsend. Walker continues to do my nut in too. Them aside, really good performance from everyone. Special mention though has to go to Eriksen, who provided exactly what we've needed (and missed) since the season began.
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