The TT Football Club

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Hall of Fame

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    My thoughts exactly it's easy to dominate games against the likes of Stoke at home but when it comes to the big games they're not even close to Arsenal, Liverpool, Barca, City etc.

    Yeah probably right,can see him doing a Chelsea 13/14 again trying to wind us up by wasting time, pointless fouling etc. If he does go with that first goal will be very crucial, we score and then destroy them, they score the and park the bus for good. Fellaini getting sent off sounds like wishful thinking more then anything won't hold my breath even if he punches one of ours players. Really hope Atkinson is not the ref for this one.

    Yeah Lovren will miss the international games as well basically a fortnights rest for our entire back4 which is nice in a way, think they'll be back for the game judging by what Klopp said at least Adam & Dejan. Big blow if Clyne misses the game we'll have to play Milner right back and bring Moreno back to the starting xi I guess which is not ideal at this stage. Can only see Sturridge or Can starting if Lallana doesn't make it, then yes it would be one of them two either Can with Gini & Hendo in midfield or Sturridge up top and Coutinho dropping back in midfield pretty much like the Swansea game.

    Yeah agreed re Spurs I think we'll be maybe the only team that went there and completely outplayed them for parts of the game we really really should have won that one. Still 7 points out of Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea away is a pretty good return.
     
  2. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Yeah think you're probably right on Fellaini, it's going to be less likely than most matches to have his elbows punished because it's a big game and referees more reluctant to make the big call, in addition to it being Man Utd. Still would rather see him play than someone like Herrera or something though to be honest.

    Yeah can only hope everyone gets back and no further injuries over the internationals. Wouldn't be so bothered about Sturridge though to be honest, although rather he didn't get injured obviously and that shows how far we've come. Much less reliant on any one players at the moment than we have been for quite some time which is great to see. Full backs is arguably the biggest concern simply due to the backup or lack thereof to our first choices.
     
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  3. They get ultra defensive when playing teams like Barcelona or Bayern but I think they are capable of playing a good looking game against anyone else.

    It certainly isn't going well for them. They already dropped five points at home. Though I guess drawing against Atletico isn't a bad result anymore, losing to Alaves at Camp Nou and conceding comical goals to Celta is a worrying sign. Real have drawn the last three games and have also barely done anything in the last transfer window despite being banned from signing anyone next year. This could actually be Atletico's season.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2016
  4. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    ^
    I believe Atletico Madrid are banned from signing in 2017 too.

    Good thing is Simeone doesn't need big spending to make things work, unlike Real.
     
  5. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Is that right, don't watch an awful lot of their other matches to be honest. La Liga not really a competitive enough league to watch a lot of, although watching someone like Barcelona absolutely destroy a team is pretty good to watch at times.

    Yeah could be, been keeping in touch with the other 2 in other seasons when they haven't won it of late and that is of great credit to them. But it's still very early of course a lot can change. I'm sure the other sides are going to go on runs and the momentum will probably change a few times. Certainly good for the league though to have 3 teams that can win it.
     
  6. I am not watching them often either, but the impression I got is that they aren't so ugly defensive unless they are forced to play like that or defending a 1-0 at the very end. On the other hand we had the performances like the one against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge, they outplayed them hard 1-3. The rivalry with Real is quite close and Atletico aren't just winning ugly there.

    It is definitely good that there is a 3rd contender in the league. IMO dropping points in La Liga is worse than in EPL and most of other leagues which is why I already suggested Atletico could use the opportunity. We have seen Barca and Real reach 90+ points on a regular basis in the last several years but now in early October they both slipped up three times already and will certainly have more of these results in the season. With such a disciplined defense and Griezmann who is in great form Atletico can do a lot, though this is probably my wish more than my expectation. In England on the other hand teams rarely go over 90 points, there are pretty much no easy games.
     
  7. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    Man Utd ultra ultra ultra defensive counter attackers. 11 men behind the ball at all times , even when we are in the opponents box. Yeah, of course. :cool:
     
  8. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    Pretty good return! I'd call it an absolutely wonderful return.
     
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  9. TheMuzziah

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    It used to be back in 2009 but nowadays I just find it boring personally though got to say I haven't watched a Spanish league match in ages now.

    haha yes I'm just a bit pissed off about that Spurs game when I think of it,could have been 9 points! But I guess it works both ways ie Chelsea had a pretty good chance to draw level think it was Costa so yeah obviously not complaining or anything just saying like what could have been lol. Still early days but as you can see I'm pretty excited. :p
     
  10. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    Any particular reasons why you found them fun in 2009 but boring right now?

    The more time I spend here the more I am getting tired of using the word, but 2011 was peak Barcelona. Can't remember a more convincing and dominant squad since I started following football.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  11. TheMuzziah

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    Coz that's when the whole tiki taka thing started and it was great to watch at first indeed remember some great matches in the CL during the 2009-11 period. It gets boring after a while though and the lack of competition in the Spanish league doesn't help. hardly exciting when you know the winner before the match has even started and that's usually the case when Barca/Madrid play smaller Spanish sides. Re peak Barcelona tend to agree would say 2009 or 2011.
     
  12. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    They really raised the bar and added something new, interesting and fun with tiki-taka. For me personally though, it was Ronaldinho who made me follow Barcelona. Didn't last long but he was an absolute joy to watch at his best. He was also one of those rare players that you just couldn't hate even if you tried IMO.

    Barcelona are playing more direct now, not even tiki taka can last forever without being kind of figured out. The individual quality of each member of their MSN trio and also the chemistry that they have is something out of this world though. Check out some of their 2014-15 CL winning campaign if you haven't, all 8 opponents they played were the reigning champions of their domestic leagues. Arguably the toughest road someone had to the trophy in recent memory. Makes Real's last season draw even more hilarious.

    The competition from lower teams isn't great but Barca and Real also receive big referee protection in Spain, think it's more obvious than in any other big league. Also, it's not rare that you see a bunch of provocateurs or whiny little girls or divers... It's not surprising if all those factors contributed to some viewers giving up on La Liga. Luckily EPL doesn't have any of this stuff or at least not to a big extent. Ref mistakes aren't always going in favor of the same side and every team gives everything against every team.
     
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  13. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    I remember him doing damage to Chelsea and being one of the few players to receive standing ovation away to Real.

    Yes, he was something else.
     
  14. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    The Aston Villa manager Murray-Go-Round continues. Roberto Di Matteo sacked.
     
  15. Slice'n'dice

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    So Mourinho 3 points worse of than LVG at this point last season. Any regrets guys?

    Something about that front three though when they are al on form that's pretty incredible I think. They've had better Barcelona teams in recent years but the front three of the last couple of years is the best they've had. Like to watch Suarez anyway as it makes me nostalgic about those years when he was with us and with Mess iand Neymar on either side is just incredible.

    Yeah it certainly makes things more interesting. We'll see anyway I guess.
     
  16. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    Tongue in cheek, so I feel like posting that Robbie Williams song.

    No Regrets now, not at this point. Not even if Charlie Nicholas no longer has us for top 4 at the end of the season. He has your lot well up there, not sure if you've been paying attention to him, not sure why I do, I don't really, but I still looked at the cliff notes from his article.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  17. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    Moyes' first 30 games were better than Sir Alex's. Would be stupid to jump to any conclusions after 7 EPL fixtures played.

    No title challenge this and next season would be a disappointment but both the players and the manager are too good to let that happen.
     
  18. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    I hope so.
     
  19. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Don't really know Charlie Nicholas, can vaguely remember his name though, he on Skysports?

    Top four not really a guarantee though for anyone I don't think. Given how competitive the League is looking like, the team finishing 5th could still have had a great season in terms of performances and points.

    Well yeah coming into a different team though. Ferguson wasn't coming into the reigning champions. What about first 7 games of 12-13?

    Although you're right of course it's ridiculously premature, just saw that stat and was kind of interesting.
     
  20. TheMuzziah

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    Will Maureen get the sack if they fail to finish in the top4? He should, no excuse not to get top4 after all that's what ultimately cost Moyes & LVG their jobs.

    Ha! ;)
    Yeah tbh its part of the reason I don't really like watching them anymore not being bitter or anything but watching Suarezs Magic with any other team is too much for me. Except if he's up against some other English side. :p

    Can't see Arsenal missing out or City probably but yeah I get what you're saying would be tight is my guess from 1st place to 5th-6th, at least if these 7 first games is anything to go by.

    Having spent that kind of (silly imo) money you would have to expect an instant title challenge, no? United have spent almost a billion or so the last three years whilst finishing 7th, 4th & 5th LOL!
     
  21. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Yeah probably should to be fair wouldn't surprise me but also maybe the manner it happens will be taken into account, if they finished 5th on 80 points or something maybe they'd give him another season. Second season has tended to be his best season after all. But really should be no excuse depends how much faith they have that he hasn't lost it. But that sort of money, especially with no sales and a title challenge is definitely expected as a minimum really. If Mourinho doesn't bring quick success history suggests long term success is much less likely but as I say second season he has shone in general so that may be an ace in the hole for him if they fall short.

    Can see that point of view but I dunno, I just feel lucky that we had a player of that quality for that time, leaving some great memories behind and we are looking strong again now so no hard feelings.

    Yeah I see City a near-certainty because they have looked incredible Tottenham match aside, and Arsenal because they always find a way, but yeah I think it'll be pretty tight.
     
  22. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    Some bad stats though there are many overpriced players. As long as we aren't among the best in Europe and consistently good in England the club will be forced to spend several extra million on most good quality players because if they get an offer from Man United on one side and a similar offer from Barcelona/Real/Bayern/Juventus on the other side, most will choose the other. The situation stinks because now whoever joins United people will say it's because of the money, clearly ignoring that there are other clubs that pay a lot too.

    About Mourinho, he won't get sacked. I remain confident about getting CL spots anyway, but he has had less failures than the previous two which makes it much more likely that he will survive any disappointment. He is also pretty much in the middle when it comes to spending, Moyes barely bought anyone while Van Gaal spent more. :D
     
  23. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Well it's either that or identifying young players developing them and implementing them in the first team. Used to be the way United did it, pretty sure Ferguson didn't spend the sort of money Man Utd have been spending (adjusting for difference in prices obviously) to get them to the top. They spent fairly big over the years of course but comparatively not really. Obviously City and Chelsea have been those big spending sides since before they became relevant and people may pay more heed to Man Utd doing it now because it didn't used to be the way, and the way their fans would go on about them buying success. Although the prices in general have got even more out of control of late, all that tv money being a big factor in that.

    Less failures is debatable, Moyes pretty much just been at Everton and by all accounts did a very good job there, not really failed. Van Gael's record very good also across a lot of clubs over more time. But maybe more success for Mourinho but he's spent more than his predecessors did in either summer. Moyes spent around 70 million though, that's pretty big spending, Mata and Fellaini cost about that between them did he sign anyone else? Also recent history is not on his side, it went spectacularly wrong at Chelsea so if they ended up missing out on top 4 by any sort of distance the questions would invariably be asked if he's lost his touch. If that happened I think he might well be sacked, although I would agree that he would be more likely than not to be kept on.
     
  24. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    City and Chelsea became relevant largely thanks to big spending. United have had enormous success without it but are now showing a bit of desperation to return to where they were with big spending. As long as results aren't great, I am afraid they will have to spend more than usual in order to get other big clubs out of the way.

    My bad, I forgot Mata was Moyes' January transfer purchase, then a club record as well, feels like he has been in the club even longer. Other than him and Fellaini, he didn't bring anyone else. Moyes had some ups and downs at Everton in the beginning and I guess not having a rich CV made him lose the job faster than Van Gaal. Van Gaal though got sacked twice before managing Manchester United. As for summer spendings, I am not so sure whether Mou spent the most. Van Gaal crossed 100 million in both summer transfer windows when he was in charge. The difference isn't big in anybody's favor.
     
  25. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Of course yeah. no arguments with that although they don't have to spend big to get back to the top. As you say they acheived that success beforehand without doing so. It is generally the quickest way although still no guarantee.

    Yeah a few ups and downs but it's kind of to be expected with a club with those sort of resources, no doubt that he took them forward though. He hadn't hit the heights of many other managers but I don't think you could really had any failures as such. No doubt the extra star power as it were from Van Gael bought him a bit more time. He may've been sacked twice but he's had a longer career than Mourinho you would probably expect that. Mourinho may well have been sacked twice when he's 63 or however old Van Gael was when he started at United.

    You're right that Van Gael spent over a hundred million in both windows 145 million in one which as you say is not too dissimilar Mourinho this summer, although he brought 40 million in fees rather than about 6 and a half this season so a bit of a difference, either way though that sort of spending onto what they already in every one of those windows should really result in a title challenge. Would be inclined to agree though that barring a spectacular failure this season they'll probably give him more time if they were to finish outside the top four. Perhaps unless someone like Simeone or someone like that became available then that would possibly change things.

    Obviously very hypothetical at the moment, season's still very young.
     
  26. sarmpas

    sarmpas Professional

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    To be fair the current owners of Chelsea and City wanted instant success so they bought the talent required. OTOH Fergie was given time to develop success(great youth system to feed the main team), he didn't win the league title until his 6-7th year in charge at Man U. In the EPL today, managers aren't given several years to get things right.
     
  27. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, spending big isn't necessary to get back to the top. Maybe United thought it's the quickest way (a bit of desperation as I said previously). So far they have been proven wrong though.

    It turned out Manchester United was too big for Moyes in the end. Looks like only Everton suit him as he didn't manage well at Sociedad and is struggling at Sunderland atm. As for Van Gaal, I am aware he has been longer in managing than Mourinho, but they had around the same number of jobs before coming to Old Trafford. Seemed to me that the comparison wasn't so bad.

    I tend to look at the players rather than money when thinking whether the team is capable of challenging for the title or not. As Cruyff once said, he never saw a bag of money scoring a goal. And to be honest, I didn't hear of some of Van Gaal's signings before (Rojo, Darmian, Herrera, Martial) despite them costing over 100m altogether. Based on the signings, IMO United should have challenged for the title in 2014-15, but can't say the same for 2015-16 (though after Leicester pulled off that miracle, all big clubs felt they underperformed badly). Based on the four really good players Mourinho brought, I think United should be in the mix for this season's EPL. Doesn't matter if Pogba cost a world record fee or not and if Zlatan was a free transfer or not. Those players are a really nice boost to the squad regardless of how much the club spent on them IMO.
    I think there is less patience in the entire football today, not just EPL. Arsenal are probably the only ones who still have a lot of trust in their manager which I admire quite a bit.
     
  28. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, he is one of the pundits on Soccer Saturday, opinion changing more than he changes his trunks.

    A recent photo :D
    [​IMG]
     
  29. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    Some stats.


    [​IMG]
     
  30. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Hall of Fame

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    As it has been said before, money don't guarantee success and of course the best recent example is United. It's about how you spend the money not necessarily how much you spend. United imo have got too many "egos"/wannabe superstars in their squad which is never a good thing if you're not Real Madrid. You've already got the Rooney situation to deal with, saw yesterday's interview? He's hilariously delusional is Rooney thinks he's still capable of starting week in week out as a midfielder no less, pretty much publicly criticised Maureen. Grab the popcorn lads!

    Re Mourino getting sacked well yes I've got to agree with Slice n Dice think if United play good football and just miss out they'll probably keep him but if he falls out with everyone whilst not getting results they should get rid ASAP, after all LVG & Moyes were sacked for less (well certainly LVG he won them a trophy, albeit a weak era one. ;)).

    Some stats.

    [​IMG]

    ;)
     
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  31. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    Very impressive. How do they compare with last season?

    Jose Mourinho getting sacked is just crazy talk right now. Yes, I prefer to play wait and see, at least after 2 months. haha.

    Not like we don't all have our moments of delusion. Wayne Rooney is hardly going to come out and say he is past it. Look at what Roger Federer has been saying, he wont say he is yesterdays news, etc. Bad for business if we tell the truth.
     
  32. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Hall of Fame

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    Forgot to mention, I dreamt that United lost 2-0 at home just before they play us and were now 6 points behind. Can't remember who against but obviously was a league side, think the second one was a free kick in the last seconds lol. Yes, it has started early this time. 12 days to go.

    Haven't got the stats for last year but there's definitely improvement no doubt.

    Yes, agreed too early for all that obviously.

    I'm not saying that, he could have just answered "I'll do what the manager wants me to, he knows what's best for the team" or something along those lines, saying that he "might need to be more selfish", look after himself and all that just before one of the biggest games of the season won't do him any favours. Plus the digs at Mourinho as well. Not captain behaviour is it? Then again we always knew he never was captain material.
     
  33. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    Nobody wants to know what I have been dreaming about.

    I didn't even read what Rooney said. Historically, he has shown that he is not the sharpest knife, despite his many amazing performances on the pitch. I don't really pay much attention to what is going on in the media. Maybe not the right thing to say, but I've said some **** in my time and it has inspired, backfired just as much, of course. Footy Manager, more than a simulation.

    I'm just not caring. If we go on a bad run then I will be concerned, we're points worse off than last season, but those stats I posted and the performances show me what I need to know. All out attack at Anfield. :p Maybe not. Park the bus and 1-0 would be just as sweet. Especially if it was in the 94th minute.

    I was at the Man Utd vs Man City game 4-3 game. Owen became a United legend for life and it was the other end of the ground. I didn't even know it was Owen that scored. Some big guy beside me hugging me and asking who scored. lol Then he shouts Owen. Just the amazing feeling when they scored the winner. Good times.
     
  34. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Haha well they drew at home anyway.

    Yeah I'm sure it's miles apart, even from Klopp's best periods I would imagine, we look like a different side, can honestly every one of our signings is looking like a good signing at the moment (expect Manninger I guess but 3rd choice keeper probably turning goalkeeping coach isn't really much of a problem. I'm surprised it's that good to be honest. Glad we don't have the defensive stats probably would be a little less appetising.

    Always did think it was weird him being appointed captain of United and England. Not just because he was already past it then in my view but he just has never struck me as the captain type. Likewise Ronaldo for Portugal. I guess the argument is the best player being as good as he is might be inspiring as captain but I don't think he needs to be captain for that. Neither strike me as leaders, and Rooney hasn't been the best player in Man Utd's squad since the season after they sold Ronaldo, But as I say I don't believe in this, best player should be captain stuff personally.


    Given that both are skysports, they've got one of them wrong. If Man Utd have more shots then they have more shots per game and if Liverpool have more shots per game they must've had more shots. Both played the same number of games. Or just at a different time who knows. I blame incompetence.

    The only one of those stats that really suggests more attacking style is passes in the final third. Crosses is just a different way of playing for one thing. Shots is probably mostly bumped up by Pogba shooting from range all the time. Probably a better standard of opposition last seasons first seven games arguably too.
     
  35. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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    When mistakes like 'if' are being instead of 'is' on reports, etc, it takes me out of the game. Errors everywhere.

    Like I said in my other post, I've watched all the United games and I don't have the overall feeling of doom that I've been having with the team for so long. Yes, optimism is there, when I stop being optimistic I might as well just give up on life.

    I don't care at all about the points difference from last season. Nothing much can be learned in 7 games, other than I see a different team than I saw last season. Hopefully end of season confirms that. If not, tough ****, I guess.
     
  36. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Yeah it's pretty embarrassing. Skysports worlds apart from BT Sport though, the dross they have as pundits on there are unbelievable. After spending so much to get so many matches you'd think they might try and get one or two decent pundits in, at least Sky sports have Carra and Neville.

    Yeah got to be optimistic when it comes to sports I think, wouldn't fault anyone for that.

    Yeah you're right about that, but I think with the quality of teams though whoever finishes 5th will probably have had a good season it's just a lot of good teams up there now I think very competitive.
     
  37. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Hall of Fame

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    Oshea all over again then? :mad: Would rather lose 3-1 or something. Although I'm not even thinking about that. We'll smash them. Yes, we will.

    Ugh, that was ****ing sickening. had to be ****ing Owen of all people. You can have him as a legend. He's certainly not a Liverpool legend in my eyes, not even close. Massive bellend.

    Btw yes this has happened to me as well sometimes haven't got a clue who scored until George announces the name or even after the game. :p

    Yeah lol well that was after the Stoke game though, I blame the international break!

    To be fair defensively we haven't looked that bad Arsenal/Burnley aside. Not keeping enough clean sheets yeah but I'd say we've been sound defensively since after the Burnley game only really struggled against Swanseas set pieces which is a concern of course (and has always been tbh!)

    100% agree. can see him getting stripped off captaincy if a foreign manager comes in for England (what are the chances of that though?...)
     
  38. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    You lucky b@stard.
    Unique and legendary day, 20th of September 2009.
    20.09.2009.
    My 13th birthday.
    Couldn't have asked for a better present, Owen became one of my all time favorite players that day. :D
     
  39. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    They seem to be big motivators and are respected a lot among their colleagues from occasional stories I heard. Experience/longevity also help when it comes to choosing the captain and both have been at the top for a long time, Ronaldo of course climbing into a higher tier as time passed, Wazza not sustaining his peak as long as Cristiano did.

    Rooney was Man United's best player in 2011-12 and arguably 2013-14 too.
     
  40. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Hall of Fame

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    Jeeez calm down. All this love in between Man united fans and Owen is pretty sickening.:confused:

    Hope we get more Liverpool United Boxing Day matches in my lifetime:pA win would be the perfect birthday present. For the time being though will settle for a comfortable win against Stoke this year hopefully a bit of snow as well to make things more festive.;)
     
  41. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Who've we got this weekend then lads? Should be a good one! The league is hotting up and starting to get interesting after that annoying international break a few weeks back derailed things...

    :rolleyes:
     
  42. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Yeah Owen, definition of a Judas ****. Any possible claim to being a legend was ended the day he signed for Man Utd. Could've forgiven him for going to Madrid for cheap after running his contract down and choosing Newcastle over us when he came back, but that was it. He drove a man to suicide as well, in addition to be one of the most boring people to work in football along with Paul Scholes, all in all, a pretty big rap sheet.

    Yeah we are looking ok on the whole, Matip has looked an excellent signing. It is that same old thing in set pieces primarily, but hopefully will improve. Quite happy with the defence for personnel, just need to iron out those bugs.

    Yeah possibly, I mean I don't think he should even be in the squad to be honest let alone starting and certainly not captain. He is so far past his sell by date it's untrue. Yeah wouldn't hold your breathe for a good foreign manager they'll probably give it to Southgate or Bruce or someone equally uninspiring. This talk of Wenger though, would be a great appointment. If it was down to me I would be doing everything in my power to try and get Wenger in for England, fear it might be too sensible though if he'd even be interested.

    Respected for being such quality players, I get that, or at least historically in Rooney's case (How have England and United done since he was appointed captain? Really inspiring sure.) Ronaldo is obviously one of the best players in the world and has been for years so from the sort of lead by example thing I can see, but he's pretty petulant and not that much of a team player which doesn't seem a great leadership quality. You don't see Wales giving Bale the captaincy even though he's comfortably their best player and the one they look to in order to dig them out of trouble more often than not, they have Ashley Williams who is a proper leader. A fine defender too but not their best player.

    Obviously Portugal won the Euros with Ronaldo as captain (actually Nani for most of the final which seems even more bizarre) so I guess you could argue that's justified it in a sense although for most of that tournament they were pretty poor, Ronaldo off form for a lot of it and they were pretty lucky to go through in third in their group in what probably was the easiest group.
     
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  43. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil G.O.A.T.

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    Don't know if someone called them good motivational speakers, foggy memory there, but they both have been serving club and country for a long time which plays a good part in choosing the captain (more than player's quality), that's loads of experience. Ramos for example is a scumbag of the highest order yet he is the captain of Real. Van Bommel as well was quite whiny one of the dirtiest players ever yet he captained Bayern and was among Netherlands captains. Don't tell me you are blaming Rooney for England's and Man United's troubles. England haven't done anything in forever, and they had almighty Shearer, Beckham, Terry and Gerrard as their captains too, while Man United went downhill before Rooney was appointed captain. Put the armband on any other player in England and Manchester United and results won't change, it's not a magic wand.
     
  44. ^
    Wazza is past his best definitely but England is just weak altogether. A lot of work to be done there.
     
  45. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Scumbags can be good leaders though that's not really relevant. Look at most of the world leaders throughout history. Being able to help stop the players heads dropping when things get difficult help them believe, lifting when they are down (that's where the best player can help, just doing something special or whatever getting a team back into the game but there are other aspects to that). Generally being the managers representative on the pitch. I don't blame Rooney for those troubles, but he hasn't really helped, probably wouldn't have been that different if someone else was the captain but if they'd had a decent manager in addition to a better captain it could've done. All speculative of course.

    They are not the strongest England team ever but it is still an England side with a lot quality and potential. Plus with Rooney as captain there's the implication that he should start most games. Something he hasn't been good enough to do since before he was appointed in my view.
     
  46. Then I guess it's quite an underperforming group of players if it has a lot of quality and potential.

    What do you personally think who would be a good captain for England right now?
     
  47. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Well yeah it is. Being managed by Roy Hodgson brings out the worst in players. Where I do think they are pretty weak is at centre back. Although Stones seems to be doing well at the moment, so that could help. But quite a way from the days of Terry, Campbell, Ferdinand with the likes of Carragher and Ledley King as backup.

    Not a great selection for captain, no obvious choices. But it should be someone good enough to start most games, not someone who shouldn't even be in the squad, so possibly Henderson, or maybe Joe Hart.
     
  48. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    Henderson if he keeps playing like he has been the last few months. Certainly more of a leader then Rooney and a better player these days.
     
  49. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Hall of Fame

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    Now that's a captain.
     
  50. Very predictable. :D
     

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