Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.
The Kings of Europe back where they belong.
Interesting how **** English teams have been in Europe on the whole since we stopped qualifying for it regularly.
Good stuff. Liverpool is a miracle pretty much, I was looking at one of those net spending graphs.
This is quite a statistic.
Indeed, if only January hadn't happened and it could've been even better.
Very impressive, truly a goal machine. Still think I'd put him behind Aguero and Costa in the best strikers in the League on their day. Think Lukaku could become better because I think he can improve a lot, it's hard to see what Kane could improve on. Goal record is unreal though, could take Shearer's record.
Chelsea holding some nice EPL single season records. Most wins, most goals scored, least goals conceded, most points... Very impressive.
Two European giants in the Europa League final which is in two days, it's going to be a good story either way. Still can't pick who to cheer for.
I thought you wouldn't poke me, looks like I misjudged you.
There were better days. Congratulations on winning La Liga, this time your team were clearly better over the season.
If in doubt, cheer for the underdog of course.
It's a 50/50 game, that kind of thinking will only create more doubt.
First Europea League Final (Or Uefa Cup was it was called back then) I remember watching was 2003. What ever happened to that young handsome Porto manager? Martin O'Neill still doing bits to tbf.
Man Utd are heavy favourites. And they should be, With Man Utd's squad apparently costing 628 million and Ajax's costing 39, Man Utd will rightly be considered the favourites. Obviously Ajax's excellent youth system (believe Man Utd's is meant be pretty good too) meaning the value of the squads would be a little closer, Man Utd nonetheless have an embarrassment of riches and quality of players that Ajax don't have. It would be a fairy embarrassing match to lose, of course anything can happen, and no doubt the fact that it's such a big match for Man Utd as winning or losing it represents the difference between a pretty disastrous season (considering everything), and a decent one.
Although as Mourinho once said "I don't want to win the Europa League. It would be a big disappointment to me." So he'll have his own internal struggles to deal with on that front, so that'll make it tough for him.
Ajax also have a fully fit squad, to my knowledge at least, and obviously less matches played/more time to prepare, that makes the difference smaller. I'd be willing to bet Juventus' squad didn't cost anywhere near 628 million, maybe even just half of that, still nobody sane would consider them underdogs if they faced Manchester United now. Anyway, I don't remember the last time there was such a thin line for anyone between a forgettable and a memorable season like it is for United in this final. Lose it and four or five English clubs can say they had a better season. Win it and it's a better season than everybody's except Chelsea's.
Yes, the transfer numbers don't tell you the whole story. They tell you that you have an expensive team, but you have to watch the matches and consider everything. How well is the team performing? What is at stake?
Wouldn't consider it 50/50 though. United are favorites.
Your squad should be well rested. I saw your line-up this weekend, just academy boys, Bailly who won't play the final, Rooney who probably won't start and Pogba who played only the first half just to get a bit of match time after missing few previous games due to his father's death.
The only bad thing apart from Bailly missing is the pressure that you will have. Ajax have secured CL playoffs at least. So no need for making any bigger excuses. The quality is there, just don't be super wasteful like in some of your games this season and the team will probably be fine.
They have a smaller squad as well I bet, injuries happen. Your reserves cost more than their first team by quite a way and there's a big difference between Juventus and Ajax. Juventus have a striker who cost almost twice as much as Ajax's entire squad for one in Higuain.
Pressure is your biggest opponent, plus Mourinho's desire not to win the Europa League of course, needs to overcome that.
Yeah fine line indeed, and speaking without considering other factors winning would be a better season than anyone else except Chelsea, although considering other factors like the level investment in the summer in addition to what you already had compared to the other sides, then Tottenham and Liverpool would've had better seasons.
Yes I agree, there is a big difference with Juve and Ajax but money spent never tells the full story. Probably the biggest extreme ever is Pogba. The one that played for them and cost peanuts was a better player than the inconsistent 100 mil one right now. Juve have some great players that were made by the club and have done some great loan/free/cheap transfer deals. Numbers can trick us.
I highly doubt you would take Liverpool's or Tottenham's season over Man United's if they win the Europa League, regardless of those other factors you talk about.
You should understand my skepticism. Barcelona had the quality to have success this season, as usual, but hardly ever gave you reasons to be optimistic, did they? Even after beating Atletico in the cup, after your epic comeback against PSG and your win over Real in El Clasico, you weren't optimistic. Now sink down to the current level of Manchester United who are forced to win this Europa League so they could avoid it next season. Barcelona will continue to be competitive at the highest level for a while but we need to get back there as soon as possible. Despite the great brand and a lot of money, playing CL will make the club a much more attractive option for world class players so the shorter the drought the better.
I wouldn't argue with that no, but you have spent some big money and have a lot of very good players, regardless of injuries and you will rightly be considered favourites, Ajax for all their promising talent are just that, where they play once you get to be a certain level you do tend to get sold, for all their history that's the situation they are in. I'm sure this summer will be no different regardless of what happens tomorrow.
No you're right I probably would take a Europa League and a League Cup over Tottenham or Liverpool's seasons (maybe take Tottenham's as it suggests you're close to winning the league). But just in terms of the situation, it's a better achievement to finish 4th when making an overall profit from transfers after finishing 8th the previous season, or finishing second as Spurs not spending much either while all the teams around you are spending big, than it is to spend 150 million like Man Utd did and finish 6th with two cups albeit one being hte Europa League and getting you Champions League. Likewise with Man City, no way did they have a more successful season than Liverpool considering where they came from and what they spend, but I would certainly take 3rd over 4th.
Do get your scepticism personally, or rather pessimism, I was so nervous going into the Middlesborough game last weekend (along with I think every single Liverpool fan). Logically I knew we absolutely should win, and did think we probably would but given how some of the games against **** teams have gone this season and what was at stake, just couldn't shake that feeling. But Liverpool were heavy favourites, and rightly so.
Man Utd 4 Ajax 0
Like I said before, it is a one off game. Definitely, there is a reason to be optimistic. Not like we are chasing 0-10 returns like Barcelona had to.
I choose to have hope and be an optimist. On this occasion. It's happening.
Mourinho seems to of tanked the last handful of games, they've had some decent results but the message and his demeanour hasn't been great.
It's hard to turn it on and off and get momentum going. So it's definitely going to be interesting to see how the players react and what kind of game we get.
Real Madrid's James Rodriguez and Gareth Bale may never lift their maiden La Liga trophy as Los Blancos will only be handed the trophy on matchday 2 or 1 next season. Had Real won the La Liga before matchday 38, they would have the trophy by now.
Jose Mourinho doesn't tank as elegantly as grand master Federali.
I'm still going for 4-0. That is my prediction and sticking to it until it goes wrong. I'm keeping the faith, my friend. Worth the free £1 at 33/1.
Apparently Real Madrid have signed a 16 year old for 38 million. He's played 17 minutes of senior football.
Football has officially gone mad.
It's moronic. And the players who arrive in the summer will lift the trophy despite making no contribution to winning it. What a joke.
The first thing I looked at was how he rated on footy this year. They are slacking. Looked at my current game and he is worth under 1 million when he hits 20. That is quite strange to me. When you hear about a deal like this in real life, I expect to search for him and find he is at least 3.5 stars and worth millions.
The next patch could spruce him up a bit.
I can then say it was the greatest prediction ever. haha Nah, I just took 4-0 because of the free bet. I don't truly believe.
Yeah doesn't look great. Always miss some though and overrate others, remember Lionel Morgan? But generally pretty good always like to look players up when someone I've never heard of signs or arranges to sign like this, can never get it perfect though.
Heard that Football clubs use it though. Roberto Firmino was found on Football Manager for Hoffenheim I heard. He turned out alright.
I'm more angry about the Serbian Superliga. Which you probably don't know anything about.
Barcelona has won enough La Ligas in the last decade
Congratulations Manchester United, you have all trophies now. Welcome back to the Champions League. With that I bet several big names will arrive this summer.
I expected more from Ajax, but their style was kind of playing into Man United's hands. You won't walk the ball into the net when up against a rock solid defense managed by the defense master himself. It almost looked like a routine win.
No 4-0, but so comfortable. Didn't even have time to get a little nervous after Henrikh the great made it 2-0. Helped that Ajax didn't show up.
Far more comfortable than I expected, maybe it's time to raise the expectations.
The two fit summer signings today scored the goals to win the game, fitting.
Historic night as from now on we can claim that we've won it all.
It's good to be back. Time for more epic Old Trafford midweek nights.
The King of Manchester who is celebrating his 51st birthday today is pleased.
Never in doubt was it lads, told you that you had it won.
I expected less from Ajax, a team of children playing against poor teams every week isn't going to beat a team of men playing in the best or second best league every week.
Mourinho, such a winner.
Even in a bad season, he wins more major trophies than some massive clubs have done in a decade. CHAMPION!
Manchester United now only the fifth club to win all three European competitions (Champions League, Europa League, Cup Winners' Cup), as well as the only English club to win all the major trophies. The final piece of the puzzle was collected tonight.
After becoming the first Manchester United manager to win a trophy in his debut season, Mourinho is now also the first manager in history to win both the Champions League and the Europa League twice.
Europa League, FA Cup, EFL Cup and two Shields. Not bad for a team in post-Fergie crisis. Next season though should be the beginning of the club challenging for bigger prizes. Expecting several departures and big name arrivals during the summer transfer window that I am really looking forward to. Certain players need to step up as well (especially no more clowning around from you, Paul).
If he is leaving in the summer, then it's time to say thank you for everything, captain Wazza.
Time to get football manager out of the way. I don't comment on pure speculation.
Expecting Griezmann to be announced double quick, double time. That has the certain feel about it.
Not sure about James, Bale. Sanchez and co yet. Like I said, I don't comment on pure speculation.
So Griezmann isn't pure speculation anymore? Excited.
Hilarious banner from one fan in the crowd. Zlatan, stay and you can shag my wife.
That is a cracker. Zlatan looks up for it. I hope she is hot.
It is all speculation to me until you're wearing the shirt blah blah blah. But I am feeling confident about it.
The main one I can remember from recent years is Januzaj. He was doing Ronaldo type things in at least 2 of the games. He is still good in the current game but has been brought back down to earth.
I've no doubt that some of the managers are playing the game right now. Figuring out the perfect formation to use etc.
Don't seem to see Zlatan in the pics of the celebrations.
Zlatan was there in the back, he just wasn't seen because of the rest.
I was bored to tears watching united against Ajax. I don't think united's that good. Fútbol has become watered down a lil.The game needs more young talent.
Young Ajax side in the Europa League final is a good highlight. Bigger clubs will probably take most of them away though.
@Gizo from our last conversation a few weeks ago you backed Manchester United to win the next Premier League. Is it just because of Mourinho's second season syndrome or are there more reasons?
Yeah didn't watch it for that reason, plus I thought Man Utd would win and I don't like watching that. Mourinho's teams have never been exciting teams to watch. I agree they are not that good, that's why they finished 6th in the League and mae hard work of their ridiculously easy draw. But hey, they won, usehistory doesn't remember who you played, now they'll spend another 300 million in the summer, scrape top 4 and Mourinho will moan about how much more investment they need to challenge because of the mess he inherited from Louis Van Gael and David Moyes (ah the classic politician excuse, it's the last guy's fault).
There's plenty of young talent to be fair, teams are cautious about throwing them in these days though I guess for the biggest teams unless they are truly exceptional, especially the likes of Mourinho.
In other news, Wayne Rooney has finally been dropped from the England squad (probably because he's now played his last game for Man Utd), and Southgate's brought 4 goalkeepers for 2 games.
Check out Real Madrid under him, gorgeous most of the time. Though there are different tastes.
Even Mourinho wasn't immediately going to get rid of all the Moyes and Van Gaal negativity in the club on top of several changes he already made, which were safe to say all good. If you can blame the treble winning Mourinho for lack of good results in Inter that future managers had, then surely Jose can get a free pass for not sorting out all Man United's problems over night.
Yeah I remember seeing a few matches, about 20% possession against Barcelona? Beautiful stuff. It's easier to be on the front foot in a 2 team league with the rich array of talent they had. So of course you will look pretty good at times, just like occasionally Man Utd have this season when playing someone ****. Pretty sure I remember him being pretty unpopular even when things were going well because of the manner of winning being so important.
Difference between Inter after he left and Man Utd after Van Gael is Inter didn't spend money, and Man Utd spent about 150 and will spend considerably more next summer. Also, for all their faults Van Gael and Moyes both gave a lot more chances to young players (surely you can't deny Martial has regressed massively under Mourinho's management, not to mention his bullying of Luke Shaw, could possibly say Rashford as well, but to be honest i never have rated him that highly) and you had a good squad who was underachieving. You should have challenged for the title this season, with that squad and the amount spent on top (albeit not spent very well in my opinion but that's down to him), as it turns out winning two trophies and getting in to the Champions League through the back door means it's not that bad a season, but you expect better. Likewise if you spend 200 million plus this summer, which seems a reasonable assumption and don't mount a challenge(which I don't really think you will), then that would be a disappointment too. Then it's time to find a new manager, not going to get better after his second season, history teaches us that.
Who gives a damn about possession percentage? Man United had 70% regularly under Van Gaal but (the second season) was one of the biggest snoozefests I have ever seen. Pep's Bayern were a cure for insomnia. When things were going well for Mou even Barcelona found it difficult to deal with. His Real won the league while competing with Barca at the peak of their peak powers and scoring 121 goals, a La Liga record that will stand for a long time. Breaking such a record while competing with one of the deadliest attacks of all time, talk about winning it in epic style. A bit of underachieving in Europe but pretty decent performances and Real being a regular semifinalist ever since his arrival in 2011, I can't complain much about the state of the club when he went back to Chelsea. Some of his behavior was pretty embarrassing though.
Spending or not, Inter were champions of Italy and Europe at the time, while Man United were a Europa League team. Martial has regressed but Rashford has been a very solid regular player this season and will remain in the future. If the transfer business this summer is as good as in the previous one, bringing a great player in every position, the title challenge is almost inevitable. Lack of good results in the Premier League this time was mostly down to comical wastefulness. You certainly know that feeling since Liverpool have been even more prone to that over the years. The popular bus had nothing to do with it.
History also taught us that Wenger will get top 4 this season, because "he always does it", remember? Some of these traditions can easily end. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Mourinho was still the manager of the club in 2020.
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