The TT Football Club

Feña14

Legend
That was the one Fena, takes some nerve diving head first at the floor with your hands by your sides, J T, I salute you!
Now how much better will we need to play to win at the weekend?:?
Alot! I think it's no coincidence that we are playing alot better now that Gerrard is playing with more discipline. I couldn't believe everyone was raving about him and saying he was our best player in the first two games, now he sticks to the left more it allows Ashley Cole to get into the game as he's got someone to make space. Gerrard not drifting into the middle also allowed Lampard to play and he was one of our better players yesterday (along with Terry, Ashley Cole and Milner).

I've just looked at the route that we could hypothetically take and it looks ridiculous! Germany in the last 16, Argentina in the quarters, Spain in the semi's and then Brazil in the final :-|
 

PED

Legend
now he sticks to the left more it allows Ashley Cole to get into the game as he's got someone to make space.

I've just looked at the route that we could hypothetically take and it looks ridiculous! Germany in the last 16, Argentina in the quarters, Spain in the semi's and then Brazil in the final :-|
Too right! Getting Cole in the game is key, as a Gooner, I remember the good old days when he used to attack down the left ;)

I think you boys can take Germany, Argentina(especially with their back line) and even Spain but Brazil........that's a bit of a different league.
 

Feña14

Legend
Too right! Getting Cole in the game is key, as a Gooner, I remember the good old days when he used to attack down the left ;)

I think you boys can take Germany, Argentina(especially with their back line) and even Spain but Brazil........that's a bit of a different league.
Germany and Argentina are possible if everything goes right and we defend as well as we have done so far, Barry has to play extremely well against Ozil if we have a chance against Germany. We also have to take chances, against Slovenia we wasted alot (Gerrard probably should of scored, Rooney with his one on one and then Defoe should of scored right at the start of the second half after Lampard headed back in after a corner). On a good day they would of been taken so hopefully we're saving them up for the knockout stages.

We have no chance against Spain or Brazil though I wouldn't of thought. It would be great if we could beat the old enemy on Sunday in one of those classic, tight World Cup games. I said I thought we were a round of 16/quarter final team so if we could make it to the quarters then we will of had a pretty good tournament, although our slow start meaning we only came 2nd in the group has made it alot tougher to reach that target than it probably should of been.
 

Ross K

Legend
Yeeees - England are through!... Congrats USA too!...

Morning TTFCers!

Well, work got in the way of being able to watch most of the first half and distracted me a little during the second (I was not a happy bunny! :evil: )... but, from what I did see, that was surely a bit more like it? :)

Good performances from Terry, Defoe, Rooney (so unlucky not to score), Milner, Matthew Upson (played really well, didn't he?), and even Joe Cole (who... "cough, cough"... btw went to my old secondary school I'll have you all know :roll: ) - Joey boy finally got a bit of an outing (and played pretty terribly I thought until he did that tactic in the last few minutes of taking the ball down to the corner flag and wasting lots of precious seconds!)...

Lots of chances and pacey play, later giving way to that pretty horrendous, agonizing, tortuous nervy latter period familiar to all England fans... and... oh no!... we'll doubtless have more of that in store against Germany!...

Nobody say the P word, right!... (By which I refer to the dreaded 'penalties'!... :eek:)

Kudos to USA too I reckon for coming first... PED, if you're reading this, how's the world cup mood in the States? Are people getting excited? I think the team deserves some 'bigging up' from its countrymen...
 

Meaghan

Hall of Fame
its interesting that the best team i saw in the 90s was Capello's AC Milan team who beat Barca 4-0 in th '94 Champs league final.

I say interesting as he played a 4-4-2 most notably was the midfield that played in a bank of four but who were all interchangeable of position, with no extreme pace, just comfortable on the ball. The four AC midfielders were Albertini and Desailly, Donadoni and Boban. Boban like Gerrard the most creative of the four played on the left but because it was a disciplined flexible unit it worked. Milner fits into this ethos too, solid and reliable first but with the ability to be creative when necessary ala Donadoni. Desailly for Barry and........ Albertini for Lampard (hmmmn??)

Savicevic I remember up front behind someone with pace, was not unlike rooney.

Gotta say they had a much better defence tho !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqcIA9rTylk
 

Ross K

Legend
Meags,

Yep, interesting thought ^^^... I, too, remember that awesome Milan team!...

Q. So who was AC's version of Emile Heskey though?!:)

R.
 

Meaghan

Hall of Fame
Meags,

Yep, interesting thought ^^^... I, too, remember that awesome Milan team!...

Q. So who was AC's version of Emile Heskey though?!:)

R.
Ha yeah, just looked it up and Massaro was the goalscoring line leader, more robbie fowler than Heskey.
 

Ross K

Legend
Ha yeah, just looked it up and Massaro was the goalscoring line leader, more robbie fowler than Heskey.
I confess I don't recall this Massarro.

Amazing players used to be in those AC sides for sure though - Gullit & Van Basten going right back, Savicevic (?), the incomparable Maldini, Donnadonni, that rugged defender who also played for years and years (can't remember name now), Albertini, Dessailly, Lentini (okay - never lived up to rep, or big fee), etc...

But can it be Cappello is attempting very similar kind of thing with England as with his CL-winning side?... yep, thought-provoking...
 

Meaghan

Hall of Fame
No, craggy faced, central defender destroyer, Capt of Italy, around for ever he was... mind has gone blank!

Savicevic was slightly frustrating but exhilaratingly dynamic, skillful player (Serbian?) who always galvanized the crowd.
Beresi.....superb :)
 

crosscourt

Professional
I think it was Baresi. He was superb, though not as good as the great Aldo Scirea (sp?).

England need to play with more energy and purpose if they are to get past Germany.
 

Ross K

Legend
^^^ Yes, it was Franco Baresi,,,:roll:

BTW, what the rubber duck has happened to Italy???!!... "Holy world cup catastophe, batman!":shock:

BTW2, Do ppl reckon England should play the exact same starting line-up as against Slovenia?
 

Feña14

Legend
^^^ Yes, it was Franco Baresi,,,:roll:

BTW, what the rubber duck has happened to Italy???!!... "Holy world cup catastophe, batman!":shock:

BTW2, Do ppl reckon England should play the exact same starting line-up as against Slovenia?
I've been saying from the start that Italy had no chance, I expected them to get out of the group but an early exit isn't all that much of a shock. They really don't have an awful lot at the moment, meaning they had to choose older players who are past it (Cannavaro, Gattuso, Zambrotta, Pirlo, Camoranesi etc..). The attack they have at this World Cup has been called the worst for 50 years, if only Lippi wasn't too stubborn to pick Miccoli, Balotelli and Totti.
 

NickC

Professional
I've been saying from the start that Italy had no chance, I expected them to get out of the group but an early exit isn't all that much of a shock. They really don't have an awful lot at the moment, meaning they had to choose older players who are past it (Cannavaro, Gattuso, Zambrotta, Pirlo, Camoranesi etc..). The attack they have at this World Cup has been called the worst for 50 years, if only Lippi wasn't too stubborn to pick Miccoli, Balotelli and Totti.
Don't forget Cassano!
 

PED

Legend
BTW2, Do ppl reckon England should play the exact same starting line-up as against Slovenia?
Yes, why mess with success.

I loved defoe up front and thought milner was good deal more effective than SWP or Lennon.

Not sure about Upson though, but Terry seems comfortable with him which is important. Maybe start Cole instead of Rooney but we all know that will never happen.
 

Feña14

Legend
Yes, why mess with success.

I loved defoe up front and thought milner was good deal more effective than SWP or Lennon.

Not sure about Upson though, but Terry seems comfortable with him which is important. Maybe start Cole instead of Rooney but we all know that will never happen.
I'd make just the one change, Upson out and either King if he's fit, or Carragher to come in.

It was interesting that Terry switched to the right side of central defence against Slovenia, a position he hasn't played very often. King plays on the left for Tottenham so that would work well if he's back for the weekend, if not then Carragher is someone i'd feel confident enough in.
 

PED

Legend
I'd love to see Rooney really catch fire, he's about due and it would be great to watch against the Germans. I saw Schweinsteiger might not be fit.
 

Ross K

Legend
^^^

Yes, don't know who should partner Terry... apparently Upson had worryingly shaky start at beginning of Slovena match (I say 'apparently' because I missed most of 1st half due to work - grrrr! - and therefore missed this nervy early display and only saw his latter, imo very impressive display...), I'm a big L. King fan (concerned about his fitness though), and think Carra is a very sound player too (but a bit slow on the deck when dealing with speed-merchants...)

Re Terry though... and I know it sounds like I'm some fan-boy now - though if you go back a few weeks with the posts you'll see I expressed reservations and doubts about him... well, I think he was absolutely fantastic against Slovenia (and wasn't bad in the other games too)... an immense performance... a real, dare I say it, 'Captains' performance... and we are sure going to need that against Germany, right?
 

crosscourt

Professional
We need a line-up that gives us some drive. Rooney is dropping too deep because there is no-one running the ball out of defence through the middle of the field (at least in the matches I have seen). But with Rooney deep there is no-one to make space for England to play in. Passing the ball out isn't England's strength and even if it were we still need someone to run the ball through the middle to prevent the other side defending too easily. This is why I am sceptical about Gerrard playing off Rooney -- because he could give the side more drive playing deeper. I would almost prefer Lampard to play off Rooney. If Gerrard brings the ball forward and Rooney plays high, that may give Lampard the space he needs to play in. He can't make it himself and without it he adds too little to the team.
 

Dave M

Hall of Fame
What about not starting with Rooney?(I know shock) but he has brought nothing to the games so far and they clearly don't know how to play to him for some reason so lets use him as a super sb in the second half. Much as it pains me to say but couch/Defo up font will give the german defence a run around then let Rooney play with 35 mins to go?Just a thought......
Not sure what the best line up is, I would go with Upson his second half performance was very good always going to b nervey at the start but he''s better than Carragher these days.
 

crosscourt

Professional
Rooney is the best English player. He seems not that well in himself physically. But I wouldn't drop him. It would give Germany a huge boost.

cc
 

Ross K

Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0WdGEZ9rqM

Funny vid of Capello getting heated on the touchline... note the way he keeps whacking S. Pearce and the other bloke (looks like he does it quite hard too - ouch!):shock: ... "Pass the ball!... pass the ball!... pass the ball!"... Come on!.... come on!... come on!".... "Go!... go!... go!...go!"... er, okay, Fab...:roll:
 

NickC

Professional
Rooney should play attacking midfield, like he did a few years ago at Man United. He'd be great behind a duo of Defoe and Walcott or someone like that. Gerrard and Lampard shouldn't play in the center, have Barry do that and leave Stevie and Frank to operate from the wings.

SWP is trash, he has no international future - it's painfully obvious.
 

Ross K

Legend
Pathetic... shameful... humiliating... the worst England World Cup performance I've ever seen... Capello must go - NO QUESTION ABOUT it... and take those dreadful, over-paid primma-donnas with you.

'Clueless' over-praises the performance.
 

crosscourt

Professional
I agree. It was appalling. Well done though to Germany who make the most of their resources. They showed England for what they are -- one paced, one dimensional lacking in technical ability and unable to control even their own restarts: in other words not very good. Germany's exposure of the limitations of our back four was ruthless. As for England some good may come out of this. With any luck it will be the last time Terry plays for England. He has had his abilities and his deficiencies measured very accurately in this World Cup and has been exposed for what he is. More likely though our media and the FA will prefer to blame this on Capello.
 

NickC

Professional
Lampard and Gerrard operate the wings, are you on crack?
Naw, I had a bit too much pale ale this morning though, and my cousin had some *excellent* grass with him. But yeah, something has to change, why not let them play a la Becks, delivering all kinds of passes from the sides of the pitch and not the inside? The way the countering game works these days is through the wide areas, and speed isn't exactly the only way to stretch defenses (as Iniesta demonstrates, acute passes are awesome at splitting defenders), and both Frank and Stevie are excellent passers, so why not let give that a shot?
 

Ross K

Legend
Talking of ppl being on crack...

Capello is expecting criticism, but he believes his side did not play too badly in South Africa despite only winning one of their four games.
"When you lose the manager gets criticised," added Capello.

"We didn't play too badly in the first game against USA, just made a big mistake.

"We played a bad game against Algeria but we played well against Slovenia.

"Today, if the referee had whistled for the goal, it would have been different. It was too big a mistake."
IMO... bottom-line is England were SO bad, the manager HAS to go.
 

Ross K

Legend
More snippets from the net that I mainly agree with:

England's worst World Cup finals defeat in history is sealed. By all accounts, there were 54 seconds between Matthew Upson's goal and Frank Lampard's crazy ping over the line. Now, it was a disgraceful decision not to allow that goal, and if it was given much might have changed. But to be honest I doubt it. England were appalling. And anyway, when you boil it down, England played well for 54 seconds out of 90 minutes. A terrible show, an embarrassment, and an especially pathetic defensive performance.


Germany coach Joachim Low says England's lack of defensive ability in midfield was their soft spot.

After their 4-1 triumph, Low confirmed Germany had targeted a defensive weakness in English ranks which his young side exploited to the full.

"We knew that the midfielders - Gerrard and Lampard - always support the forwards and that their midfield would be open, we knew there would be spaces.

"Our objective was to set Terry up with Klose to force him to come out of the defence. We knew the full-backs would be very much to the side, and that would create space that we could penetrate.

"We could have been 3-0 up in the first half because we did penetrate them."



The trouncing in Bloemfontein revealed much, all of it unwelcome and very little of it new. England's inability to retain the ball was highlighted by the Germans, who excelled at that. At the highest level, a more refined style of play is required and a passing game needed to prosper. England play in straight lines, the rigidity of 4-4-2 strangling them against more imaginative opposition.

Younger and brighter, more energetic and effervescent, Germany exploited it, skipping between the lines, darting along the diagonals and stretching England. Outnumbered in the centre of the pitch, Fabio Capello's side proved unable to stymie the men at the tip and base of the German midfield: Mesut Ozil, the creator extraordinaire who was barely marked, and Bastian Schweinsteiger, who ran the game. There is a reason the leading Premier League clubs rarely play an orthodox 4-4-2, especially in Europe, and now it is time for the national team to follow suit.

Familiar as the 4-4-2 formation is, England were still a mess tactically when chasing the game. Gareth Barry failed as holding player, but he wasn't aided by the system. He certainly did not look fit when Ozil sprinted past him to set up the fourth goal.

It was a suitably ignominious conclusion to a dismal stay in South Africa that featured one acceptable display, against Slovenia, one mediocre performance, versus the United States, and two utterly miserable ones.

The best-paid manager in the World Cup is an obvious target for criticism and, given England's shambolic efforts against the Germans, a correct one, but the problems run deeper. They grew worse the longer they were exposed to Sven-Goran Eriksson's laissez-faire approach and they failed completely under Steve McClaren's irritatingly matey and PR-conscious regime. Fabio Capello, the imported autocrat, was the antidote to that, and if England could not perform for him either, the logical conclusion is that this group of players are unmanageable.

Whether or not they were permitted a beer or a game of golf at Boot Camp Capello, they require a more realistic appraisal of their own abilities. It is only a couple of days, for instance, since Joe Cole called John Terry the best centre-back in the world. As he isn't even the finest at Chelsea, that is quite an exaggeration. Braveheart impressions against Slovenia are all well and good, but Terry's lack of pace, long apparent, and surprisingly suspect positioning were enjoyed by the Germans. It is time for searing honesty, not silly superlatives.

It was a tournament where none truly impressed. David James may be deemed England's player of the World Cup, largely due to a lack of competition. Steven Gerrard and Ashley Cole had their moments, Wayne Rooney very few and some none at all. Thanks to Larrionda and Espinosa, Frank Lampard now has the dubious honour of possessing the record for most World Cup shots without scoring. Unfortunate then, he has nonetheless been underwhelming.

The overall picture is well-known: players failing to reproduce their club form for England and a team that is less than the sum of its parts. The opposite may be said of the Germans as well as several of the competition's surprise packages.

It is both that tradition of underachievement and the age of those responsible that mean a clearout is called for. There is little point in persisting with players whose best days lie behind them and whose best displays come on domestic duty. Speedier centre-backs would be a start, after the way Terry and Matthew Upson were embarrassed; budding anchor midfielders should be encouraged; and players with the mentality to prosper identified and ones with the ability to adapt tactically promoted.

Whether that is a task for Capello is a pertinent issue. He is a pragmatist whose sides tend to be built around senior players. England need a more progressive style of play and more youthful personnel. His complaint about the lack of video technology is a valid one, but his comment that England played well was nonsensical.

They were abject and it is a mandate for change. It should be farewell to plenty: James, on grounds of age, plus Jamie Carragher, Ledley King, Terry, Upson, Shaun Wright-Phillips and Emile Heskey, whose raison d'etre was to make Rooney play well. Lampard and perhaps even Gerrard are players who might not be around for 2012 and unlikely to be in Brazil in 2014.

All could perish because, by the high standards tournament football necessitates, too few of the golden generation have had distinguished England careers. Those reflecting upon the personal consequences of a World Cup that has somehow been still worse than 2006 for them may think it's all over. Thankfully, England's awful campaign is now.
 

crosscourt

Professional
The question about the manager isn't as easy for me as it is for you. I agree that had we not got out of the group stages he would have had to resign.

But coming into the tournament Capello was lauded for having brought England through the qualifying campaign so smoothly. His predecessor didn't even manage to get the same England team into the European Championships (though he has now shown his ability in Holland and is in demand in Europe as a manager). Before him, Eriksson, did about as well as Capello has done this time. So why do we think that with a different manager our team could do any better? The evidence suggests that "last 16" status is about right for the England team.
 

PED

Legend
The scariest part of Spain's goal today is that the three involved (Villa, Xavi and Iniesta) will all be wearing a Barca shirt next year.

Nice to see positive, attacking football winning out against a dull (slightly negative) Portugal.
 

PED

Legend
Throw Messi into that equation and there'll be some goals.
Wow, I forgot about him :)

It's official now, everyone featured in that Nike advert has now bombed out of the WC: Drogba, broken arm, Rooney(the less said the better), Ribery, Cannavaro, Ronaldo, and Ronaldhino didn't even make the squad. Looks like it was the kiss of death. Schneider should be glad he wasn't in it ;)
 

Feña14

Legend
how much of a chance does Holland have of beating Brazil?
Hopefully i'll be watching the Nadal v Murray semi when it's on :)

Holland have been ok so far but Brazil have been alot more impressive, they've handled the pressure pretty well.

I hope Holland can give them a good game, but at the moment I can't see anything other than a Brazil win. I'll go with a 3-1 win with Robben scoring one of his specials.
 

Ross K

Legend
England manager situation...

A quick perusal on line of the latest re the England manager situation shows Hodgson has either signed now for Liverpool or is a whisker away from it. Which means Redknapp will almost certainly be offered Capello's job very shortly - which is pretty much a disaster if you're a Spurs fan! :eek: ...

Then again, according to something else I came across, one of the board who'll decide and who is a very close ally of the Chairman, the all-around dodgy-seeming, highly suspect "Sir Dave" Richards :shock: (engineer incidentally of the ridiculous clause to pay Cap those extra millions should his contract be broken), has come out and leaked Capello should be given another chance because it will cost too much to pay him off, and the reasons for England's world cup implosion weren't all of Fabio's making...

So Redknapp to be England boss?... someone else should step in?... Cappello should actually remain in post? :confused: (This prospect completely defies belief as far as I'm concerned.) ... what's the feeling around here gents?
 

Feña14

Legend
Do you think it's possible that Redknapp could still manage Spurs at the same time? It wouldn't be the first time a manager has stayed with his club whilst managing the National side.

It might actually be beneficial for the manager to still be involved in the day to day buzz of the Premier League, Capello seemed to be a bit out of the loop.
 

bezs

G.O.A.T.
how much of a chance does Holland have of beating Brazil?
Definitely do stand a chance Brazil are heavily favoured for the match and for the first time this tournament Holland are not. I can see this going into extra-time but i believe Holland can nick it.
 

crosscourt

Professional
I think Redknapp would be the wrong choice. He is an excellent club manager in the Premiership. But all the talents that make him so good at club level seem much less relevant for an international manager. I think Cappello should probably stay.

cc
 

Ross K

Legend
Do you think it's possible that Redknapp could still manage Spurs at the same time? It wouldn't be the first time a manager has stayed with his club whilst managing the National side.

It might actually be beneficial for the manager to still be involved in the day to day buzz of the Premier League, Capello seemed to be a bit out of the loop.
Agree about Harry multi-tasking and Cap being out of touch...
 

PED

Legend
I think part of Cap's problem is raw material. He's won at every level but the class of player that he had at his disposal was better. I'm not trying to rip on anyone but the golden generation just were not golden. I think we all kind of "knew" that in the back of our minds but the proof is irrefutable now.

I love Harry but think he's better at Spurs as well although as an Arsenal fan, I wish Harry would take the national job ;)
 

NickC

Professional
David Silva-to-Man City confirmed by the BBC as of this morning.

(FWIW, I just landed in London. I'm up for a few pints before the match on Friday, who's with me?!)
 

Breaker

Legend
David Silva-to-Man City confirmed by the BBC as of this morning.

(FWIW, I just landed in London. I'm up for a few pints before the match on Friday, who's with me?!)
Amazing signing.

--------------------Hart-----------------

Richards-----Kompany----Lescott----Boateng

-------------Yaya------De Jong---------

A. Johnson------Silva-----------Robinho

-----------------Tevez-----------------

Things are looking quite good at the moment !
 
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